News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[Fanta]

Just now, Boom said:

Yes given yourself away, outed yourself, call it what you want, attempting a lame comparison between soldiers from Russia and Ukraine in POW swaps and babies women and children taken hostage by Hamas terrorists is pathetic

The Hamas terrorists deserve everything that is coming to them. It’s a shame that some choose to use Hamas’ deplorable actions to justify Israel’s disregard for non combatants. 

[Boom]

Just now, Fanta said:

The Hamas terrorists deserve everything that is coming to them. It’s a shame that some choose to use Hamas’ deplorable actions to justify Israel’s disregard for non combatants. 

Would you like to point out who is doing that exactly?

[Pinetree]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Who is the 'all' ? If ever Hamas needed a recruitment agent, Israel is it.  How do you think the Palestinians in Gaza feel about Israel now? What must it be like living in Gaza - death all around you, no food, no water, no electricity, constant shelling and air strikes?

I had to come in to this post again after reading this BS.  What the sweet Mother are you talking about?  The Gaza people have brought it on themselves. Hamas is a result of a twisted  Islamic ideology, not of Israel.  Who cares what the Palestinians think, if they ever do.  They have succored and supported the nest of vipers that are the Hamas terrorists, in their midst, ever since the Gaza cesspit has existed.  Gaza Families have born their children and indoctrinated their kids to join Hamas and now they are seeing the result of their stupidity, hate of Israel and the West, anti Semitism and short sightedness.  They have much worse to come, believe me.  I have very little to no sympathy for their present circumstances.  To me, Israel is being amazingly restrained. 

[KhaoYai]

21 minutes ago, Boom said:

"Who is the 'all' ?"

Hamas terrorists

OK

[KhaoYai]

12 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I had to come in to this post again after reading this BS.  What the sweet Mother are you talking about?  The Gaza people have brought it on themselves. Hamas is a result of a twisted  Islamic ideology, not of Israel.  Who cares what the Palestinians think, if they ever do.  They have succored and supported the nest of vipers that are the Hamas terrorists, in their midst, ever since the Gaza cesspit has existed.  Gaza Families have born their children and indoctrinated their kids to join Hamas and now they are seeing the result of their stupidity, hate of Israel and the West, anti Semitism and short sightedness.  They have much worse to come, believe me.  I have very little to no sympathy for their present circumstances.  To me, Israel is being amazingly restrained. 

That such views exist is exactly why the conflict continues. Sad, very sad but thankfully in the minority.

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

I believe I have answered it. You, on the other hand, have not. So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as bargaining chips? 

I think they believed that it would escalate into a regional conflict. Pretty bad plan if you ask me. 

I believe Hamas had that objective.Sacrifice GazaHamas to disrupt Abraham Accords plus possibility of ultimately destroying Israel. Perfectly Fits their Death Cult Islamism.

Overlooked Israel’s Nukes. Israel have surely discretely warned that Any Islamic State intervening against Israel will have their Military & Capital Cities Obliterated.Iran Turkey Pakistan Egypt… did you get that ? 
Well, all right then……..

Hostages here are simply Expendable by All. Israel War Strategy Not Affected. Israel rightly has No Interest in your rather Naive Calls for Ceasefires- Peace -Negotiation -Hostage Settlement- Social Services etc , beyond total obliteration of GazaHamas, which entities cannot be practically Separated.

No such “ agreement” process possible with such Fascist Animals only Death. Israel will take No Prisoners either.Those surviving unarmed Arabs can be pushed over the border into Egypt ( or Syria) where their forefathers came from anyway post 1890 or so…..Since Muslim Arabs profess to love each other so much this shouldn’t be a problem. Then the West Bank terrorist non- Israeli Arabs can follow. 

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

That such views exist is exactly why the conflict continues. Sad, very sad but thankfully in the minority.

 

8 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

That such views exist is exactly why the conflict continues. Sad, very sad but thankfully in the minority.

Not Minority Views at all. Majority in fact as no other Views are possible to any rational sane civilised educated adult…….

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

The Hamas terrorists deserve everything that is coming to them. It’s a shame that some choose to use Hamas’ deplorable actions to justify Israel’s disregard for non combatants. 

In this Total War launched by the fascist aggressor Hamas, the Gaza Govt, it is neither possible nor practical for Israel to identify & separate “ non- combatants” who were told by Israel to Leave and are the Full Responsibility of their Govt., Hamas, who of course care nothing for them in such wartime. Pray Tell, how Israel would “regard” non-combatants ? 

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

Ah huh.. finding them under the rubble sounds like a great plan….. 

you offer no realistic solutions here. and not because there are any you’ve missed.
There aren’t, other than what Israel is already doing.

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Fanta said:

Hang on. I think we have a basic misunderstanding here. imo, a negotiated peace is not on the exchange bingo card.  Instead, a simple exchange of “goods” - hand over the hostages and give Hamas the political prisoners/whatever physical thing they want. Then the conflict continues. No settlement, no terms etc.

Naive Nonsense. No Understanding of War.
Incredibly Assumes Hamas are Reasonable & can be Trusted.
Hamas are Rabid Dogs to be put down, nothing more. 
And Cease this Irritating  “ Both Sides” shyte. Implying moral equivalence where none has ever existed in this conflict which is between a civilised western democracy & genocidal religious fascist lunatics. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Pray Tell, how Israel would “regard” non-combatants ? 

Just little things like not bombing residential blocks in the South. You do know that Israel told the non combatants to move to safety in the South? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-renews-call-gazans-flee-key-southern-city-2023-11-17/

[Fanta]

47 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Naive Nonsense. No Understanding of War.
Incredibly Assumes Hamas are Reasonable & can be Trusted.
Hamas are Rabid Dogs to be put down, nothing more. 
And Cease this Irritating  “ Both Sides” shyte. Implying moral equivalence where none has ever existed in this conflict which is between a civilised western democracy & genocidal religious fascist lunatics. 

I generally enjoy your rants and let the occasional misunderstanding slide but I have to call you on this one. I do not assume that Hamas are reasonable or trustworthy nor have I implied a moral equivalence. Please humour me by taking a moment to first wipe the angry spittle from your screen and then review my posts in this topic. You will find I have offered nothing but condemnation for Hamas while calling for their extermination. Thank you. 

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I generally enjoy your rants and let the occasional misunderstanding slide but I have to call you on this one. I do not assume that Hamas are reasonable or trustworthy nor have I implied a moral equivalence. Please humour me by taking a moment to first wipe the angry spittle from your screen and then review my posts in this topic. You will find I have offered nothing but condemnation for Hamas while calling for their extermination. Thank you. 

Wrong. Your posts are clear enough. As are mine which are never less than Rational Factual Accurate.

You constantly advocate Negotiation & Peace where none can be had. With Russians & Hamas.

Impossible to Negotiate without Trust yet you call for Negotiation with Hamas & Putin. Contradictory.

Also you use that term “ Both Sides”. I have come across misguided apologists like you all my adult life.

I “misunderstand” nothing and no one here. Another of your many “ devices” that don’t work with myself.
 

[oldschooler]

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Just little things like not bombing residential blocks in the South. You do know that Israel told the non combatants to move to safety in the South? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-renews-call-gazans-flee-key-southern-city-2023-11-17/

Israel told Gazans to leave Gaza City. I care not where those cattle- brain collaborators go or how.
Shame about the kids but that’s on Hamas.

Israel bomb terrorist bases wherever they lie. Again, I have no concern with the details.  

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You constantly advocate Negotiation & Peace where none can be had. With Russians & Hamas.

Impossible to Negotiate without Trust yet you call for Negotiation with Hamas & Putin. Contradictory

WTF is wrong with you? I have never advocated for peace with Hamas and have only ever called for their destruction. I have only ever suggested negotiations as a normal part of the process for securing the release of the hostages, never with an aim for peace. 

12 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Also you use that term “ Both Sides”.

You’re right, “Both sides” is incorrect. There are 3 sides - Israel, the Palestinians and Hamas. Israel declared war on Hamas, not the Gazans or the Palestinians. Looks like your desired solution of ethnic cleansing will have to wait.

14 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I have come across misguided apologists like you all my adult life.

I believe you as anyone that doesn’t agree with your outspoken opinions is clearly an apologist in your eyes. 

16 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I “misunderstand” nothing and no one here. Another of your many “ devices” that don’t work with myself.

If offering you an off ramp for your stupidity is a “device” then guilty as charged. Your lies regarding my opinion are just that, lies.

[Pinetree]

 

[Boom]

Hamas leader talking about how many Palestinian lives must be sacrificed to win the war. He cares not and celebrates the deaths of civilian casualties in Gaza

 

[Boom]

Even the health staff at Shifa hospital celebrate when one of their own dies!

 

"A nurse in Shifa hospital in Gaza happily announcing that her husband became a martyr. Look at her genuine happiness as she is hugging her daughter We will have peace only when they value life more than death."

 

[EdwardV]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

Just little things like not bombing residential blocks in the South. You do know that Israel told the non combatants to move to safety in the South?

And does that still apply if Hamas digs its tunnels under those same residential blocks, and takes up defensive positions inside them? Pretty sure that’s exactly why Israel told the civilians to leave isn’t it?

[Fanta]

25 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

And does that still apply if Hamas digs its tunnels under those same residential blocks, and takes up defensive positions inside them? Pretty sure that’s exactly why Israel told the civilians to leave isn’t it?

Israel told the Gazans to move south and after they had moved south the IDF bombed the residential blocks in the south. Oops….. 
Aerial bombing the tunnels is probably an acceptable action in the “cleared” north but to do so in the now very overcrowded south seems like a breach of international humanitarian law and also the Geneva Convention in regards to the protection of non combatants. I do not envy the IDF staff tasked with identifying & authorising the aerial bombing of targets. 

[Fanta]

3 hours ago, Boom said:

Even the health staff at Shifa hospital celebrate when one of their own dies!

"A nurse in Shifa hospital in Gaza happily announcing that her husband became a martyr. Look at her genuine happiness as she is hugging her daughter We will have peace only when they value life more than death."

Staged Hamas propaganda. Note the 20 cameramen conveniently following her just in time for the big announcement. 

[EdwardV]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Aerial bombing the tunnels is probably an acceptable action in the “cleared” north but to do so in the now very overcrowded south seems like a breach of international humanitarian law and also the Geneva Convention in regards to the protection of non combatants.

I’m not sure that the way the international law is written. I’m pretty sure as soon as Hamas militarizes a building it stops being a civilian structure regardless if civilians are still in it or not???

[Pinetree]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I’m not sure that the way the international law is written. I’m pretty sure as soon as Hamas militarizes a building it stops being a civilian structure regardless if civilians are still in it or not???

Correct 

[Fanta]

34 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I’m not sure that the way the international law is written. I’m pretty sure as soon as Hamas militarizes a building it stops being a civilian structure regardless if civilians are still in it or not???

IANAL but it’s a reasonable assumption that bombing populated apartment buildings in a safe zone will get the human rights lawyers pretty worked up. Israel is damned if they bomb the tunnels and damned if they don’t. Bombing them causes disproportionate civilian casualties and not bombing them means the IDF will have to go inside the tunnels and that’ll cost a lot of soldiers their lives. 
EDIT: To answer your question - if a building is militarised then it is a valid military target. The unique problem here is that the responsibility of moving non combatants to safety falls on Hamas who don’t seem to care about non combatants. 

[Boom]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Staged Hamas propaganda. Note the 20 cameramen conveniently following her just in time for the big announcement. 

Staged propaganda by the nurse, Palestinian reporters and civilians in Shifa hospital, really? How do you work that one out? Must have been a double bluff propaganda piece then eh? Because they are incriminating themselves.