News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[KhaoYai]

Total disregard for the Palestinian people being shown here.  I wonder how many of you would feel the same if it was your children that were being blown up?

The right that Israel had to defend itself following the October 7th Hamas atrocity has passed. There can be no justification whatsoever for the total devastation and massive loss of life Israel is inflicting on the civillian population.

Will Israel achieve its objective of destroying Hamas? I sincerely doubt that. The ideology that has created groups like Hamas will live on. Israel's actions have created even more hatred - do they think there will be peace after this?  Not a hope.  I am totally anti Islamic extremism but I'm considering the reality here.  Totally flatten, the entire Gaza Strip, kill thousands more Palestinian civillians and achieve what?  Peace?

Remember this, there will be the remains of Hamas, there is Hezbollah, Iran, Yemen, Jordan and many other groups/areas where Islamic extremists exist - Putin backs some of them.  Israel is going to have to be totally locked down, check points on the streets etc. etc. but eventually the hideous bus and disco bombings will return. Israel will not achieve the peace it claims it is seeking by these actions.

Islamic Extremists don't behave rationally, they won't give up.  Look at the suicide bombers - they don't care about their own lives, only their ridiculous Jihad.  A way has to be found to take those people out - you can't kill thousands of civillians to take out a few hundred lunatics.

The worldwide threat of Islamic extremism will be far greater in the coming months/years.  No country where there are Jewish interests will be safe from terrorism. Those countries seen as supportive of Israel's attacks on Gaza will most likely suffer the worst.

Deal with things as they are, not how they might be.  The fact is that significant areas of the entire world have suffered through Islamic extremism and Israel's actions have now made the likelihood of further attacks much greater.

Israel's behaviour in going massively further than was justified by the October 7th attacks has probably created the biggest ever recruitment drive for Islamic extremism across the entire Muslim world.

Edited November 19, 2023 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Not Minority Views at all. Majority in fact as no other Views are possible to any rational sane civilised educated adult…….

Majority where?  USA? I think you might want to watch a little  more TV news. The people of the world are now reacting against Israel's actions.  UN resolutions are now succeeding in going against Israel.

Even their allies are finding it hard to back them as their disproportionate actions and collective punishment of Palestinian civillians continues.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Staged Hamas propaganda. Note the 20 cameramen conveniently following her just in time for the big announcement. 

(obvious) staged Hamas propaganda video used in this case by a propagandist on the other side. Now he wrote: "We will have peace only when they value life more than death." "they"...?? Who are we supposed to understand are "they" in his opinion? All Gazans? All Palestinians? And then propaganda working its magic: someone posted this video here and we know instantly what he thinks who "they" are.... well roughly, either all Gazans or All Palestinians, or all muslims, something in the like... Amazing propaganda work on both sides and the perfect example how it works on some brains: one woman speaks in front of a camera, so she speaks for everyone, they are all thinking like her. Perfect human logic: it is black or white, nothing else.

Meanwhile... about 3/4 weeks ago, in an article in a Israeli news outlet, some days after Blinken visited Qatar , it was mentioned that Qatar were talking about Hamas leaders deportation, news (and I thought then that's the news everyone wanted to hear) I am sure it comes from a sure source to be written in this news outlet. Why there no sound of this anymore anywhere from anyone? I would have thought that when you want to destroy an organisation, decapitate the head and the job is quasi done. Qatar is the link between Hamas and other sides for negotiations and has been for years (well done again Netanyahu). So Israel obviously do not want to negotiate with Hamas - but of course like in every conflicts / wars, there are always negotiations and there are some now with Hamas too. But it really puzzles me: how is this possible, the head of Hamas and organisators of Oct.7 as well as the head of the ditactorial regime and misery imposed on Gazans for years are free of any stress in their luxury hotels while ordinary people in Gaza are living hell on earth? How is this possible? Why is this possible?

Meanwhile... it seems some of the most extremist Israelis are using this "opportunity" to accelerate the colonisation process in the West Bank. And noone seems to care... (well France and the US have condemned these actions - these 2 I know for sure anyway - as if those extremist settlers and IDF soldiers give a damn anyway)

"The savage attack by Hamas against Israel on October 7 and the atrocities the terror group committed on that day plunged Israel into war and brought about the greatest security threat to the Jewish state in half a century.

At the same time, the October 7 assault has unleashed severe backlash in the West Bank against Palestinian civilians, who have been violently attacked and harassed by extremist settlers and specially formed IDF reserve units established to provide extra security to Israeli settlements.

According to activist groups such as B’tselem and Peace Now, which oppose Israeli rule in the West Bank, as well as the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), this wave of harassment has led hundreds of Palestinians in vulnerable rural communities to abandon their homes and villages."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/facing-violence-and-harassment-hundreds-of-palestinians-flee-west-bank-villages/

 

[Manu]

21 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Total disregard for the Palestinian people being shown here.  I wonder how many of you would feel the same if it was your children that were being blown up?

Not by everyone. Only extremists. And it is not really so much towards Palestinians, more the arabs or muslims or both, some do not seem to know the difference, the same people have the same hated comments on other subjects related to arabs / muslims too, post after post. Most do not have much knowledges on the subject either, I suspect they did a little bit of reading since Oct.7. Of course, none of them have never been to Israel, never mind to Palestine. Yes, pure hate, that is all it is. And on an anonymous online forum, well, you know, fill the gaps with the words of your choice...

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Majority where?  USA? I think you might want to watch a little  more TV news. The people of the world are now reacting against Israel's actions.  UN resolutions are now succeeding in going against Israel.

Even their allies are finding it hard to back them as their disproportionate actions and collective punishment of Palestinian civillians continues.

Never Mind. Your genocidal friends days are numbered. Gaza a Terror Base whose Hamas- Supporting Civilians can take up their concerns with Hamas, their irresponsible govt. who “collectively” declared a non “proportionate” total war on Israel, on behalf of Gaza, thus dooming their own civilians, for whom Hamas clearly care very little.

Hamas alone, as Gaza Govt., are responsible for Gaza Civilians.
Israel rightly concerned only with its own civilians not enemy civilians. That how war works.

However Israel has been making attempts to minimise civilian enemy casualties, something which Arabs never do.
Did you complain when Assad was busy murdering 500,000 Syrians or Saudi Arabia killing 200,000 Yemenis ? No. Dead Arabs only “ matter” to your deluded kind when killed by Israelis in self defence. For perspective, Israel has killed 10,000 aggressor genocidal murdering Arabs in 75 Years of many wars & attacks launched by Arabs since 1948.

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Manu said:

Not by everyone. Only extremists. And it is not really so much towards Palestinians, more the arabs or muslims or both, some do not seem to know the difference, the same people have the same hated comments on other subjects related to arabs / muslims too, post after post. Most do not have much knowledges on the subject either, I suspect they did a little bit of reading since Oct.7. Of course, none of them have never been to Israel, never mind to Palestine. Yes, pure hate, that is all it is. And on an anonymous online forum, well, you know, fill the gaps with the words of your choice...

Entirety of Islam is Extreme Violent Genocidal Tyrannical Unfree Undemocratic. Of course as such it’s Hated.

Hamas merely the logical end game.  Hamas the Govt. of Gaza so fully responsible for its entire population.

Since when are enemy civilians responsibility of Israel, or anyone but the enemy ?
Never of course. That’s how it has always worked.
Unfortunate for the innocent kids, indoctrinated & betrayed by their fascist insane adults.

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

Israel told the Gazans to move south and after they had moved south the IDF bombed the residential blocks in the south. Oops….. 
Aerial bombing the tunnels is probably an acceptable action in the “cleared” north but to do so in the now very overcrowded south seems like a breach of international humanitarian law and also the Geneva Convention in regards to the protection of non combatants. I do not envy the IDF staff tasked with identifying & authorising the aerial bombing of targets. 

Israel not making any guarantees of safety here. Israel giving best general safety advice to Gazans.

Which they don’t have to do and which the uncivilised enemy never do.
This is a Limited Total War by Israel in response to Unlimited Total War started by Hamas.

You don’t preach Intl Law to Hamas Murderers or Assad so why do that to Civilised Free Defensive Israel ? 

 

[KhaoYai]

21 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Never Mind. Your genocidal friends days are numbered. Gaza a Terror Base whose Hamas- Supporting Civilians can take up their concerns with Hamas, their irresponsible govt. who “collectively” declared a non “proportionate” total war on Israel, on behalf of Gaza, thus dooming their own civilians, for whom Hamas clearly care very little.

Hamas alone, as Gaza Govt., are responsible for Gaza Civilians.
Israel rightly concerned only with its own civilians not enemy civilians. That how war works.

However Israel has been making attempts to minimise civilian enemy casualties, something which Arabs never do.
Did you complain when Assad was busy murdering 500,000 Syrians or Saudi Arabia killing 200,000 Yemenis ? No. Dead Arabs only “ matter” to your deluded kind when killed by Israelis in self defence. For perspective, Israel has killed 10,000 aggressor genocidal murdering Arabs in 75 Years of many wars & attacks launched by Arabs since 1948.

I will not reply to your post whilst you retain that attitude.  I have made it clear that I do not support Islamic Extremists. They are not my 'genocidal friends'. Remove that and aplogise and we can continue discussions. You need to change your attitude.

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You don’t preach Intl Law to Hamas Murderers or Assad so why do that to Civilised Free Defensive Israel ? 

Is that a serious question? Hamas is a designated terrorist organisation and only a fool would waste their time criticising them for not playing by the rules.
Israel, home to the self declared “most moral army in the world” is not above scrutiny nor criticism. And it is in Israel’s best interests not to inflame regional tensions by seeming uncaring to the fate of non combatants. 

[oldschooler]

14 hours ago, Fanta said:

WTF is wrong with you? I have never advocated for peace with Hamas and have only ever called for their destruction. I have only ever suggested negotiations as a normal part of the process for securing the release of the hostages, never with an aim for peace. 

You’re right, “Both sides” is incorrect. There are 3 sides - Israel, the Palestinians and Hamas. Israel declared war on Hamas, not the Gazans or the Palestinians. Looks like your desired solution of ethnic cleansing will have to wait.

I believe you as anyone that doesn’t agree with your outspoken opinions is clearly an apologist in your eyes. 

If offering you an off ramp for your stupidity is a “device” then guilty as charged. Your lies regarding my opinion are just that, lies.

“ Palestinians” don’t exist. PLO invented that falsehood in 1967 after ARABS lost yet another genocidal aggressor war. They are all ARABS who emigrated from Egypt and Syria last 140 years to find work in Israel bought & owned  lands.

Again, Hamas as Gaza Govt., are fully responsible for all Gazans. Who all share Islam so No Separation.

No rational sane civilized person should be proposing ANY form of direct or indirect support for any Muslim.

 

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Is that a serious question? Hamas is a designated terrorist organisation and only a fool would waste their time criticising them for not playing by the rules.
Israel, home to the self declared “most moral army in the world” is not above scrutiny nor criticism. And it is in Israel’s best interests not to inflame regional tensions by seeming uncaring to the fate of non combatants. 

 

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Is that a serious question? Hamas is a designated terrorist organisation and only a fool would waste their time criticising them for not playing by the rules.
Israel, home to the self declared “most moral army in the world” is not above scrutiny nor criticism. And it is in Israel’s best interests not to inflame regional tensions by seeming uncaring to the fate of non combatants. 

Are you so continuously Stupid ?
Were UK “ responsible” for Fascist Enemy Civilians in WW2? No they weren’t. Not one word on that then !
So I’ll make it Clear Again; Israel Responsible ONLY for Israelis. Only Hamas Responsible for Gazans. 

Situation way past “inflaming regional tensions”. Israel have a civilisational war of survival to win.

Israel has certainly warned the bad actors not to intervene…. on pain of Obliteration. 
So that’s “ regional tensions” managed……

[KhaoYai]

I would just like to be clear - seeing as some members don't seem to be able to read too well.

I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS AND I TOTALLY ABHORE ISLAMIC EXTREMISM

My home country has also been a victim of several attacks by Islamic Extremists but they are not the vast majority of muslims - millions of whom are entirely peaceful.

I DO SUPPORT ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF - proportionately

However, both sides in this conflict have committed war crimes for which they should be held to account.  You cannot 'fight fire with fire' because its still fire and thus burns everything -  'an eye for an eye' simply makes everyone blind.

It seems more then a little odd to me that Israel protests about the horrific actions of Hamas on 7th October and then blows up a school. Israel tells Gazan's to move South for safety reasons then bombs the South killing scores of people and admits to it saying they were targeting Hamas tunnels (2 weeks ago). It may well be very difficult to attack Hamas directly but that is what Israel should be doing.

Collateral damage is very different to deliberately targeting areas known to be occupied by civilians. Firing on hospitals, schools, women and children or having no regard to the occupation of a target are all war crimes.

[oldschooler]

34 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I will not reply to your post whilst you retain that attitude.  I have made it clear that I do not support Islamic Extremists. They are not my 'genocidal friends'. Remove that and aplogise and we can continue discussions. You need to change your attitude.

Then SUPPORT Israel Properly without deploying irritating naive  anti- Israel emotions. 
No sane rational civilized person should be in any way supporting anything Islamic. 

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I would just like to be clear - seeing as some members don't seem to be able to read too well.

I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS AND I TOTALLY ABHORE ISLAMIC EXTREMISM

My home country has also been a victim of several attacks by Islamic Extremists but they are not the vast majority of muslims - millions of whom are entirely peaceful.

I DO SUPPORT ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF - proportionately

However, both sides in this conflict have committed war crimes for which they should be held to account.  You cannot 'fight fire with fire' because its still fire and thus burns everything -  'an eye for an eye' simply makes everyone blind.

It seems more then a little odd to me that Israel protests about the horrific actions of Hamas on 7th October and then blows up a school. Israel tells Gazan's to move South for safety reasons then bombs the South killing scores of people and admits to it saying they were targeting Hamas tunnels (2 weeks ago). It may well be very difficult to attack Hamas directly but that is what Israel should be doing.

Collateral damage is very different to deliberately targeting areas known to be occupied by civilians. Firing on hospitals, schools, women and children or having no regard to the occupation of a target are all war crimes.

All Childish Naive Misguided. Islam is ALL Extreme Evil Genocidal Unfree. As are its People.

Inactive Muslims Irrelevant. All Ticking Time Bombs. Waiting for their Mullahs to tell them to Murder Infidels.

Total War ( launched by Hamas) is never Proportional and has no Separation between Military & Civilians.

Israel being Incredibly Restrained with Warnings: Corridors etc. but there can be no Safety Guarantees.
Israel Not using Genocide or Nukes. Staying Legal. War Crimes ALL by Arabs.
Saying  “ both sides” implies an incorrect moral equivalence. Just Don’t Do It. 

Israel have ZERO Responsibility for Enemy Civilians.

Hamas as Gaza Govt. are fully responsible for All Gazans.

Any Civilian Areas used for any Military purpose are legally designated Military. All Gaza Basically.

 

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, Manu said:

Not by everyone. Only extremists. And it is not really so much towards Palestinians, more the arabs or muslims or both, some do not seem to know the difference, the same people have the same hated comments on other subjects related to arabs / muslims too, post after post. Most do not have much knowledges on the subject either, I suspect they did a little bit of reading since Oct.7. Of course, none of them have never been to Israel, never mind to Palestine. Yes, pure hate, that is all it is. And on an anonymous online forum, well, you know, fill the gaps with the words of your choice...

Usual gibberish. Naive Misguided Wrong. You’re “ peaceful”:Muslim friends will cut your infidel throat at any time.No such people as “ Palestinians” they are simply Arabs. That political term fabricated in 1967. Yes Islam is naturally feared so hated. No least by its millions of Jewish & Christian victims. I have visited Israel and worked in Arab countries and have a strong interest in History & Geography. I know what I’m talking about. You are some kind of Muslim Apologist to be pitied- dismissed- ignored.

 

[oldschooler]

16 hours ago, Fanta said:

Just little things like not bombing residential blocks in the South. You do know that Israel told the non combatants to move to safety in the South? 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-renews-call-gazans-flee-key-southern-city-2023-11-17/

General Safety Notice.South Safer Than North.  No Safe Zones or Guarantees in War.
Especially if those blocks used by Hamas. And Israel does not occupy or control South Gaza ! 
Your post reminds me of the howls of rage when the Argentine Battleship was Sunk in 1982  “ outside the UK Exclusion Zone” and “ moving away” ” as if that offered protection in a War !

[oldschooler]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:43 AM, Fanta said:

No-one is denying that non combatants deaths are an inevitability in war however it must be acknowledged that questionable actions such as bombing refugee camps and attacking hospitals are never a good look. The longer this war goes on, the more public opinion is turning  against Israel.

Think that when in a civilisational war of survival, “ public opinion” and “ a good look” are around item 850 on your “to do” list

[KhaoYai]

I know this forum is supposed to be more relaxed towards moderation but please, where are the moderators?

How can people be allowed to spew out complete unfounded, racist hate speech?

Debate is one thing but even freedom of speech has its limits.  I don't know where this forum is registered but some of what's being spewed out here may also be illegal.

[EdwardV]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

And it is in Israel’s best interests not to inflame regional tensions by seeming uncaring to the fate of non combatants. 

Not that I don’t agree with your point, but who is there left to inflame which doesn’t already want Israel wiped out? Many of the Arab countries don’t want anything to do with the Palestinians, and a few wouldn’t be unhappy to see them wiped out. As horrible as it is for the Palestinians, they haven’t made many real friends in the last few decades. 

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Not that I don’t agree with your point, but who is there left to inflame which doesn’t already want Israel wiped out? Many of the Arab countries don’t want anything to do with the Palestinians, and a few wouldn’t be unhappy to see them wiped out. As horrible as it is for the Palestinians, they haven’t made many real friends in the last few decades. 

Inflame, give them an excuse to act, force a response, enrage a radical group already eager to cause harm - call it what you like. For example, Iran has hypersonics and I’m sure there are Jihad Johnnie’s all over the world keen to martyr themselves. 

[BigHewer]

9 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Entirety of Islam is Extreme Violent Genocidal Tyrannical Unfree Undemocratic.

I agree with many of your points but not this one. My in-laws are all Muslim and they are all free, peaceful and vote on election day. No bloodthirsty tendencies whatsoever. And they are by no means unique. So “entirety” is a stretch. 

[Boom]

If the world didn't know before then it knows now that the doctors and staff at Al-Shifa hospital were complicit to the Hamas terrorists who used it as a base. The cctv evidence out now of hostages being brought into the hospital on the 7th Oct accompanied by armed terrorists is clear. Doctors social media accounts celebrating the 7th oct attacks have also been exposed.

 

Here's the latest vid of a deep terrorist tunnel at Shifa hospital. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Boom

[Boom]

Israeli hostages inside Shifa hospital, surrounded by Hamas armed militants on 7th Oct.

 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Inflame, give them an excuse to act, force a response, enrage a radical group already eager to cause harm - call it what you like. For example, Iran has hypersonics and I’m sure there are Jihad Johnnie’s all over the world keen to martyr themselves. 

Did they really need an excuse? Iran themselves haven’t met a radical group they weren’t ready to throw money and weapons at in order to attack Israel. Keeping in mind Iran wants these groups wiped out too. As for Iran themselves, they have no intention of attacking Israel and have no love of the Palestinians either. Useful idiots is the correct term I believe. There is downside for sure, but selling the point of inflaming the area isn’t as big a point as it appears from the outside. 

[SnapDragon]

Can fool all of the people some of the time. Can fool some of the people all of the time. But can't fool all the people all of the time.

Israel Zionists are trying to fool the whole world all of the time. Not any more.

The writing is on the wall. Follow the money.