News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[KhaoYai]

41 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Your ignorance is Biblical mate. 

You have a right to your opinion - but that's all it is. And I'm not your 'mate'.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

53 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Do you want censorship? Think how that can be used against your opinions. 

Not entirely but there should be no room for racism and hate speech.  The forum certainly shouldn't put itself at odds with the law either and that would depend on the jurisdiction they fall under. It is no longer allowable for racism to be posted online in most jurisdictions - difficult to police but there have been prosecutions in the UK.

Moreover, people who resort to hate speech and racism have already lost the argument.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KhaoYai

[Pinetree]

12 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

You have a right to your opinion - but that's all it is. And I'm not your 'mate'.

You're right, you're not. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

This is not racist?

Er no…. Islam is not a “race” Just an Evil Genocidal Religion / Creed / Ideology / Plague on Humanity. 

Practiced unfortunately by all “ races”. The thing spreads like Contagion and drives the infected Insane.

[KhaoYai]

58 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Your ignorance is Biblical mate. 

I rarely make personal comments as I find that those who do so, do that simply for effect - an attempt to belittle or make someone's opinion seem irrelevant. Its quite easy to refute what someone says with evidence.

However, I will make an exception in your case...........my ignorance? I think you might gain something from looking in the mirror.

What such people fail to realise is that anyone with a modicum of education will simply ignore such comments.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

Just an Evil Genocidal Religion / Creed / Ideology /

I have not read the Quran - maybe you could point to which parts of its text preach Genocide?

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have not read the Quran - maybe you could point to which parts of its text preach Genocide?

It’s there…… find & read yourself …….. more of your childlike ignorance on display again

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I rarely make personal comments as I find that those who do so, do that simply for effect - an attempt to belittle or make someone's opinion seem irrelevant. Its quite easy to refute what someone says with evidence.

However, I will make an exception in your case...........my ignorance? I think you might gain something from looking in the mirror.

What such people fail to realise is that anyone with a modicum of education will simply ignore such comments.

Suggest you spend less time blathering and more time educating yourself. Wikipedia a good start.

[oldschooler]

20 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Not entirely but there should be no room for racism and hate speech.  The forum certainly shouldn't put itself at odds with the law either and that would depend on the jurisdiction they fall under. It is no longer allowable for racism to be posted online in most jurisdictions - difficult to police but there have been prosecutions in the UK.

Moreover, people who resort to hate speech and racism have already lost the argument.

You mean like all radical fascist Muslims, or non- whites, for example …….or do they all get their usual “privileged pass” ?

Note: people using those tired cliches “ hate speech” and “ racism” reveal themselves as Marxist socialist millennial dicks…….and anti- Free Speech,  which must be Absolute and free from legal sanction, as US Constitution. 

[Pinetree]

15 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have not read the Quran - maybe you could point to which parts of its text preach Genocide?

As I said, your ignorance is Biblical. Stop digging.  I suggest that you get onto U Tube and watch many of Chris Hitchens's lectures on Islam and the teachings of that religion, then you can comment from some knowledge instead of from ignorance. 

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Er no…. Islam is not a “race

I think you know that there is little difference between religious hatred and racism.  However, I found this text interesting.

Stefani Dobler explains that rigorous use of surveys shows that religion does not facilitate racist attitudes; poverty and low education are some of the factors that do.

This explains exactly what you are doing - in case you have some problem understanding:

'In the current climate of fear of terror, religion and racism are hot topics. Muslims are often not only a target of racism, but also find themselves misrepresented as being intolerant in media stories'

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/religion-does-not-cause-racism-deprivation-and-insecurity-do/

Finally, as I told you before, I will not discuss anything with a racist and as you have failed to apologise for your remarks. I will make no further replies to you. If this forum has an ignore button, I will be using it - your views are of no interest to me nor are people of your ilk.

Bring on the cheap quips, I probably won't see them.

 

 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Pinetree said:

So in effect,  by stating that, you support terrorism against a Nation State, stating some kind of equivalence that does not exist. What kind of peace does that produce? Its wooly thinking like yours that prolongs conflicts and unfortunately, many politicians are equally illogical in their thinking and in their silly statements.  We see this every day in that other center of  idiocy, the UN.    

But but ……. we can light candles, pray and sing cum byar around a campfire

[SnapDragon]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:43 PM, KhaoYai said:

Total disregard for the Palestinian people being shown here.  I wonder how many of you would feel the same if it was your children that were being blown up?

The right that Israel had to defend itself following the October 7th Hamas atrocity has passed. There can be no justification whatsoever for the total devastation and massive loss of life Israel is inflicting on the civillian population.

<snip>

Very emotive.

It's not the Semitic jews that are the problem. It's the Zionist lot from Europe. The Semites lived happily together for thousands of years. Then along came religion and although the different groups lived close together there was not the harmony as before.

In fact the semite jews and semite Palestinians are blood brothers.

 

 

[oldschooler]

7 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think you know that there is little difference between religious hatred and racism.  However, I found this text interesting.

Stefani Dobler explains that rigorous use of surveys shows that religion does not facilitate racist attitudes; poverty and low education are some of the factors that do.

This explains exactly what you are doing - in case you have some problem understanding:

'In the current climate of fear of terror, religion and racism are hot topics. Muslims are often not only a target of racism, but also find themselves misrepresented as being intolerant in media stories'

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/religion-does-not-cause-racism-deprivation-and-insecurity-do/

Finally, as I told you before, I will not discuss anything with a racist and as you have failed to apologise for your remarks. I will make no further replies to you. If this forum has an ignore button, I will be using it - your views are of no interest to me nor are people of your ilk.

Bring on the cheap quips, I probably won't see them.

Gosh , Crikey & Yikes ! that’s telling me ! Like being savaged by a rabid puppy or lamb

Mentality of a petulant 15 year old at his first ( losing) school debate……

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Sticky said:

Very emotive.

It's not the Semitic jews that are the problem. It's the Zionist lot from Europe. The Semites lived happily together for thousands of years. Then along came religion and although the different groups lived close together there was not the harmony as before.

In fact the semite jews and semite Palestinians are blood brothers.

Complete ignorant shyte ….. as usual…… have you ever even read a book…. and not ones with pictures in… ffs

[Pinetree]

10 minutes ago, Sticky said:

It's the Zionist lot from Europe.

Rubbish.  If you knew anything of the history of that region, you would know that 3,000 years ago, what we call Palestinians today were the Philistines Tribe and the Jews and the Philistines were  mortal enemies even then. 

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Sticky said:

Very emotive.

It's not the Semitic jews that are the problem. It's the Zionist lot from Europe. The Semites lived happily together for thousands of years. Then along came religion and although the different groups lived close together there was not the harmony as before.

In fact the semite jews and semite Palestinians are blood brothers.

Yes, there are different factions in all religions. Just as most of the world's Muslims are moderate and do not impose their views on others - there are extreme factions. Some people base their views on Muslims and Islam on the extremist groups that exist within the religion using the name of Islam.  That Islam is largely preached in countries controlled by to varying degress, authoritarian regimes doesn't help either.  I am fully aware of that, I was one of them - I stress was! I have been accused of being ignorant when in fact, it is the above sort of views that are in fact, ignorant.

I have thankfully learned the error of my ways and know that extremist groups do not in fact, represent the vast majority of Muslims.

However, the practice of Islam seems to encompass all aspects of life in Muslim cultures - the constant prayers and attribution of just about everything to 'Allah' plus the influence that Islam has on governence and law can skew the opinions of those looking in on Muslim societies.

As such I do believe that Muslim and none Muslim societies are largely incompatible.  In the UK whilst there is no serious conflcit between Muslims and the rest of the population, there is a desire amongst some Muslim factions for more involvement in decision making - even Sharia Law. Clearly that will never be allowed to happen.  However, there is clear evidence of a movement against imposed hardline Muslim rules and culture - hence the recent 'Hijab' protests in Iran.

I raise the above to illustrate that some people here, base their opinions of Islam on the actions of a few.

The people of Gaza are not Hamas but they will no doubt be influenced by them.  One only has to look at Russia and the support Putin enjoys for his actions in Ukraine.  That has been brought about by over 20 years of 'brainwashing' and media control. Gazans may well have voted for Hamas and appear to support them but are they all extremists? Of course not.  Their feelings are hardly going to be supportive of Israel though - not considering what is going on in Gaza right now.

As I've said before, if Israel wanted to create a 'Hamas Academy', they are going the right way about it.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KhaoYai

[SnapDragon]

57 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Rubbish.  If you knew anything of the history of that region, you would know that 3,000 years ago, what we call Palestinians today were the Philistines Tribe and the Jews and the Philistines were  mortal enemies even then. 

Going back further than any modern religion. They were all mates.

[SnapDragon]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Complete ignorant shyte ….. as usual…… have you ever even read a book…. and not ones with pictures in… ffs

I read a book once.

Reckon it's the Zionists that are the problem. They are already rubbing their hands together with the prospect of making money.

Rebuilding the Nth of Gaza for new Israeli settlers; or an Israeli military base. And the gas drilling. That is already planned to go through Turkey into Europe. Heard that BP are in the running.

Those Gaza residents were just in the way. Long planned.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Sticky said:

Rebuilding the Nth of Gaza for new Israeli settlers; or an Israeli military base. And the gas drilling. That is already planned to go through Turkey into Europe. Heard that BP are in the running.

I very much doubt that will be allowed to happen.

If the rest of the world has learned anything from the constant conflict in Israel/Palestine that has spawned further Islamic Extremism then surely its that a solution must be arrived at.  Muslim extremism has reached far beyond the Middle East which entitles the rest of the world to have their say - that and because left to themselves, the 2 sides will never agree.

Neither Israel or the Palestinians will be in total agreement with any settlement - its clear that right wing elements within Israel would like to see the destruction of 'Palestine' and that the extremist groups within Palestinian society want Israel gone.  Neither of those things are going to happen and its therefore likely that any settlement would have to be imposed to some degree. Although other countries may not wish to be too involved, I'd suggest that if we are to see peace, they will have to be.

It was not Israel that decided on the allocation of an area that would become their home, that was decided by others - notably the UK. Therefore, it seems reasonable that others are involved in a final settlement and that it is imposed.  I don't see any other way. The whole situation needs to be taken back to 1948 and a settlement arrived at that takes account of what's happened since - accepting the mistakes

However, I don't see the '2 State Solution' that is so often talked about as a solution, working.  For one, there is a separation between Gaza and the West Bank - the 2 Palestinian areas and there will always be the Jerusalem problem - both parties claim its theirs. I would treat them both like naughty school children, bang their heads together, draw a line down the middle with the Israelis to the West and the Palestinians to the East. Jersusalem would either be a separate entity, administered by both or if they can't agree, by a third party such as the UN.

Some would say "you can't do that, you can't mess with a sovereign state's borders" - really? Well how was Israel created in the first place?  Its turned out to have been an ill thought out agreement that was from the start, heavily biased towards Israel. Nevertheless we are where we are and we must deal with the existing situation.

Will any of the above happen? Will even the 2 state solution ever happen? Probably not. But I don't see the end of this matter without an imposed settlement that is policed.

The facts are that there are two groups of people, both need a home and both have been fighting over land for years.  Israel is the more powerful and has had the upper-hand. It is not then surprising that some Palestinian groups have resorted to terror activities that to date, have usually backfired on them. How do you sort that without imposition?

By existing situation, I am not simply refering to the current actions that began on 7 October.  As Antonio Guterres, the UN's Secretary General said a few weeks ago 'the Hamas attack did not happen in a Vacuum'. I can't remember a time, even in my earliest childhood. when the Middle East and in particular, Israel, has not been in the news at some point - and never for a good reason.

The only light I see at the end of this tunnel, well its more of a candle than a light, is that recently I have seen a group made up of both Israelis and Palestinians that simply want to see peace and live together.  A great thought but after this? Would either side share the same air? Would the Israelis ever treat the Palestinians as equals?

Edited November 20, 2023 by KhaoYai

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Some would say "you can't do that, you can't mess with a sovereign state's borders" - really? Well how was Israel created in the first place?  Its turned out to have been an ill thought out agreement that was from the start, heavily biased towards Israel. Nevertheless we are where we are and we must deal with the existing situation.

Except back at the creation of the modern Israel, there wasn't a sovereign state to deal with. Makes a huge difference. Was it really a heavy bias towards Israel? The country was carved out of Transjordan wasn't it, which was nothing but a protectorate of the UK. In my opinion, the true crux of the problem was not enough land was given to Israel. They created a country which wasn't defensible, it had no strategic depth and lack just about any natural defensive barriers. Israel knew day one, they were going to have to take more land if its neighbors were not willing to live in peace. Which is exactly what happened on both accounts. Israel doesn't need to hold onto Gaza, but they can't live without most of the West Bank. 

26 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

As Antonio Guterres, the UN's Secretary General said a few weeks ago 'the Hamas attack did not happen in a Vacuum'.

His statement was correct, but for the wrong reasons. It's clear he was putting part of the blame on Israel for its past actions in Gaza. However, the fact is Hamas attacked not because of what Israel was doing to Gaza, but because Israel was making nice with its Arab neighbors and the Palestinians were becoming irrelevant.     

[Vigo]

 

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

Turn an internment camp into a tourist resort and if it doesn’t work it is the Palestinians fault - talk about setting someone up to fail. The actual goal behind that unrealistic proposal is to eject the Palestinians from Gaza.
Q: If you take all Hamas out of Gaza what do you have? A: the West Bank.

You call it an internment camp, but it was not. Prior to the daily rocket attacks on Israel, the border with Israel was available and Arabs regularly crossed into Israel for work and for social services. Even without the Israeli border crossings, the Gazans had the option of Egypt. Between the border crossings and tunnels, there was ingress/egress. Why would you expect the Gazans to have easy access to Israel when Hamas was in a state of war with Israel? Do the people of Venezuela have easy access to Colombia? Haitians to the USA?   

The suggestion of a tourist resort was merely an example of the potential. Dubai converted itself into a resort destination. Monaco did too and Monaco doesn't have the beaches and sea like Gaza. In addition to a resort destination, Gaza could become a financial services center, or even a medical  services destination. The possibilities are endless, but it requires a commitment to peaceful studies and hard work. The Philippines is known for its technical schools and supply of quality personnel worldwide. Gaza could do similar for the arab world.

There is no serious intent to eject Gazans from Gaza. You have assumed that. Nor is there a willingness within Israel to occupy Gaza for an extended period of time. The majority of Israel's military are civilian reservists and few if any want to be in Gaza longer than is need to get rid of Hamas..  An extended stay was tried before and did not work out well. Israel intends to inflict discomfort and pain such that the Gazans will think twice before attacking again.

5 hours ago, Sticky said:

Very emotive.

It's not the Semitic jews that are the problem. It's the Zionist lot from Europe. The Semites lived happily together for thousands of years. Then along came religion and although the different groups lived close together there was not the harmony as before.

In fact the semite jews and semite Palestinians are blood brothers.

Seriously deluded. Those semitic jews as you call them were always "Zionist" because they were  the inhabitants of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. No the "semites did not live happily together for thousands of years. Humans have never done that. They co-existed. There was always a warring warlord of foreign  power occupying and expelling the locals. The Egyptians, Romans, Persians,  Turks and Europeans all occupied  the country a some point. Almost 1 million jews were expelled from Arab countries. Their land and assets seized. Baghdad had its infamous pogrom.  The people who lived in harmony with the jews were typically targets of other Arab's harassment and murderous assaults. The Kurds, the Lebanese Christians, and the Druze are examples. They united because there was strength in numbers.

Turkey has a near pathological hatred of Kurds. Israelis have a link to the Kurds, because of the protection the Kurds had historically extended as they were a tolerant and friendly culture. This is one of several  underlying reasons for Turkey's feud with Israel: Israel's refusal to betray the Kurds. 

4 hours ago, Sticky said:

I read a book once.

Reckon it's the Zionists that are the problem. They are already rubbing their hands together with the prospect of making money.

Rebuilding the Nth of Gaza for new Israeli settlers; or an Israeli military base. And the gas drilling. That is already planned to go through Turkey into Europe. Heard that BP are in the running.

Those Gaza residents were just in the way. Long planned.

They are already rubbing their hands together with the prospect of making money.

It's a phrase lifted  right out of jew hating anti-semitic tracts.  All you are missing is the caricature of a large hook nose. You are already perceived as mentally unstable. Now you can add ignorant bigot to the characterization. And FYI, the gas development is offshore and in Israeli territorial waters. The new licenses are for an area  west of the existing Leviathan field. One licensed group is led by Italy's Eni. The second licensed group exploring north of the Leviathan  field is led by Azerbaijan's national oil company Socar. BP is only a participant in the Azerbaijan controlled development.  

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Sticky said:

I read a book once.

Reckon it's the Zionists that are the problem. They are already rubbing their hands together with the prospect of making money.

Rebuilding the Nth of Gaza for new Israeli settlers; or an Israeli military base. And the gas drilling. That is already planned to go through Turkey into Europe. Heard that BP are in the running.

Those Gaza residents were just in the way. Long planned.

Off the wall Jew Hating. “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, Nazi Jew Hate Stuff.

Anti - Semitic Pro - Hamas Pro - Genocidal Loon. Dismissed. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I very much doubt that will be allowed to happen.

If the rest of the world has learned anything from the constant conflict in Israel/Palestine that has spawned further Islamic Extremism then surely its that a solution must be arrived at.  Muslim extremism has reached far beyond the Middle East which entitles the rest of the world to have their say - that and because left to themselves, the 2 sides will never agree.

Neither Israel or the Palestinians will be in total agreement with any settlement - its clear that right wing elements within Israel would like to see the destruction of 'Palestine' and that the extremist groups within Palestinian society want Israel gone.  Neither of those things are going to happen and its therefore likely that any settlement would have to be imposed to some degree. Although other countries may not wish to be too involved, I'd suggest that if we are to see peace, they will have to be.

It was not Israel that decided on the allocation of an area that would become their home, that was decided by others - notably the UK. Therefore, it seems reasonable that others are involved in a final settlement and that it is imposed.  I don't see any other way. The whole situation needs to be taken back to 1948 and a settlement arrived at that takes account of what's happened since - accepting the mistakes

However, I don't see the '2 State Solution' that is so often talked about as a solution, working.  For one, there is a separation between Gaza and the West Bank - the 2 Palestinian areas and there will always be the Jerusalem problem - both parties claim its theirs. I would treat them both like naughty school children, bang their heads together, draw a line down the middle with the Israelis to the West and the Palestinians to the East. Jersusalem would either be a separate entity, administered by both or if they can't agree, by a third party such as the UN.

Some would say "you can't do that, you can't mess with a sovereign state's borders" - really? Well how was Israel created in the first place?  Its turned out to have been an ill thought out agreement that was from the start, heavily biased towards Israel. Nevertheless we are where we are and we must deal with the existing situation.

Will any of the above happen? Will even the 2 state solution ever happen? Probably not. But I don't see the end of this matter without an imposed settlement that is policed.

The facts are that there are two groups of people, both need a home and both have been fighting over land for years.  Israel is the more powerful and has had the upper-hand. It is not then surprising that some Palestinian groups have resorted to terror activities that to date, have usually backfired on them. How do you sort that without imposition?

By existing situation, I am not simply refering to the current actions that began on 7 October.  As Antonio Guterres, the UN's Secretary General said a few weeks ago 'the Hamas attack did not happen in a Vacuum'. I can't remember a time, even in my earliest childhood. when the Middle East and in particular, Israel, has not been in the news at some point - and never for a good reason.

The only light I see at the end of this tunnel, well its more of a candle than a light, is that recently I have seen a group made up of both Israelis and Palestinians that simply want to see peace and live together.  A great thought but after this? Would either side share the same air? Would the Israelis ever treat the Palestinians as equals?

Israel / UN offered a large Arab State in the area FIVE TIMES.Always REJECTED  by the stupid Arabs.

Who want not Peace, not Co- existence but GENOCIDE of All Jews.
UN ? No more anti- Semitic org. has ever existed except the Nazis.

More UN Resolutions against Democratic Israel than all other combined resolutions.

No UN resolutions against murderous genocidal Iran ! 

Wake Up Fool.

Cease Your Senseless Jabbering until Properly Informed…

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Agreed.

Yet the moderators allow this to continue?  I have no problem in stating that I have reported some of the 'hate' and 'racist' posts and posted a complaint but still they remain intact. 

I don't know what jurisdiction this site falls under but I can confidently state that if it fell under the UK's, the authorities would be seeking to prosecute the offenders for clear racism and hate speech.

Why Don’t you just shut up you little ignorant little twerp ……..