News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[SnapDragon]

57 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

They just don't deserve it, it's necessary for World peace, just as dealing with ISIS and Al -Qaeda was necessary.  Its also necessary to crush Iran at some point 

Quickly followed by Afghanistan, Russia and China (although not necessarily in that order). The way to go?

[Pinetree]

10 minutes ago, Sticky said:

Quickly followed by Afghanistan, Russia and China (although not necessarily in that order). The way to go?

Afghanistan can be isolated.  Russia is being dealt with by proxy, China is suffering economically and is constrained in Asia by the 7th Fleet, complemented by the Brit and French carriers. 

[SnapDragon]

6 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Afghanistan can be isolated.  Russia is being dealt with by proxy, China is suffering economically and is constrained in Asia by the 7th Fleet, complemented by the Brit and French carriers. 

Well that's about that then. It's all sorted. Zionism the winner.

However! Thailand could be a challenge.

[Pinetree]

5 minutes ago, Sticky said:

Well that's about that then. It's all sorted. Zionism the winner.

However! Thailand could be a challenge.

Funny isn't it, that your very freedom to comment, travel freely, live in peace, be economically advantaged, is provided by the very people and systems that you, and others on here,  appear to dislike so much.  Odd that. 

[Fanta]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:59 AM, oldschooler said:

Hostages here are simply Expendable by All. Israel War Strategy Not Affected. Israel rightly has No Interest in your rather Naive Calls for Ceasefires- Peace -Negotiation -Hostage Settlement- Social Services etc , beyond total obliteration of GazaHamas, which entities cannot be practically Separated.

So naive am I 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-government-debates-deal-release-gaza-hostages-truce-2023-11-21/ 

[Pinetree]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So naive am I 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-government-debates-deal-release-gaza-hostages-truce-2023-11-21/ 

Yep.  The pause looks good, but more important it allows a respite, re deployment  and re arming for the IDF.  Its militarily advantageous to Israel. Normal service to be resumed in 5 days. 

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-latest-hamas-hostage-ceasefire-truce-sky-news-live-blog-updates-12978800

[Fanta]

Just now, Pinetree said:

Yep.  The pause looks good, but more important it allows a respite, re deployment  and re arming for the IDF.  It’s militarily advantageous to Israel. Normal service to be resumed in 5 days. 

Because wars are always stopped for 5 days so one side can rest and rearm. So much copium! 

[Boom]

Official Announcement Israeli Gov

[Pinetree]

16 minutes ago, Boom said:

Official Announcement Israeli Gov

Pause,  rest, re arm, then finish the job. 

[SnapDragon]

45 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Pause,  rest, re arm, then finish the job. 

Finish what job?

Do you mean getting all the Hamas people out of Gaza?

Or move all the people out of Gaza?

[Boom]

53 minutes ago, Sticky said:

Finish what job?

Do you mean getting all the Hamas people out of Gaza?

Or move all the people out of Gaza?

"continue the war to return all the abductees, complete the elimination of Hamas and ensure that Gaza does not renew any threat to the state of Israel"

^^^Yes it was written there for you to read ^^^

Edited November 22, 2023 by Boom

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, Sticky said:

Finish what job?

Do you mean getting all the Hamas people out of Gaza?

Or move all the people out of Gaza?

Kill all Hamas, the rest, well that's to be seen. 

[SnapDragon]

2 hours ago, Boom said:

"continue the war to return all the abductees, complete the elimination of Hamas and ensure that Gaza does not renew any threat to the state of Israel"

^^^Yes it was written there for you to read ^^^

At the moment there is 2 million people living in only half of Gaza.

Strange why they targeted the bakeries.

There are big things planned I reckon. Watch out for a contractor shipping in half a million tents.

 

[KhaoYai]

20 hours ago, EdwardV said:

I would argue that’s not true in the least. Hamas drove out the PLO and did so with the most violent of methods.

I worded it badly/simplistically. What I mean is - they are both terrorist organisations that claim to be Islamic and they both have shared goals. Hamas has lost any sliver of legitimacy now in any case and will not be allowed to exist anywhere near Israel.  They set themselves up as a political body - a government.  Last time I looked, governments don't usually behead civillians, burn people alive or take hostages.

I honestly can't see a two state solution working with land organised as it is now - as I said before a re-drawing of the map with a North/South split might work in principle. Would it be acceptable? Not a hope. Then there's the Jerusalem problem.

I guess the reality is that we can look forward to another 80 years of bloodshed and violence.

[KhaoYai]

11 minutes ago, Sticky said:

There are big things planned I reckon. Watch out for a contractor shipping in half a million tents.

Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure of that - they may have plans but I doubt they'll be allowed to carry them out.  Biden has now demanded they state what their intentions are in South Gaza.

Anyway, I'm out of here.  Its bad enough that people are allowed to post racist/illegal comments - now I find I'm locked out of a topic for making a joke.  I was assured this forum was better than AN/TV, in fact its far worse.

Edited November 22, 2023 by KhaoYai

[Boom]

6 minutes ago, Sticky said:

At the moment there is 2 million people living in only half of Gaza.

Strange why they targeted the bakeries.

There are big things planned I reckon. Watch out for a contractor shipping in half a million tents.

mmm not sure what on earth that has to do with the post your responding to, I did tell you to adjust your tin foil hat but your not listening....

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

So naive am I 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-government-debates-deal-release-gaza-hostages-truce-2023-11-21/ 

Not Yet Done. Hamas Obliteration Done. Allows Hostage Release Consideration.

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Kill all Hamas, the rest, well that's to be seen. 

Push what’s left into Egypt & Syria. Where their ancestors all came anyway from post 1890.

Including West Bank Arabs (non- Israeli).

Far better & permanent solution than the always Arab -rejected / unworkable Two States.

Mirrors what Arab States die to their Jews post - 1967.
Jewish “ Nakba” pro- Arabs never talk about.

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, Sticky said:

I'm OK that you are OK with your beliefs. I don't agree with you, but I support your right to voice your opinion.

IMO, the current state of affairs was planned a while back. Perhaps years back. Perhaps since 1948.

All Dead Arabs Everywhere are clearly their OWN  full & failed responsibility.

Israel has only ever acted in Self Defence for SURVIVAL.

I realise that your terror- apologist type only bleat about Arab Lives …..when taken by Whites.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure of that - they may have plans but I doubt they'll be allowed to carry them out.  Biden has now demanded they state what their intentions are in South Gaza.

Anyway, I'm out of here.  Its bad enough that people are allowed to post racist/illegal comments - now I find I'm locked out of a topic for making a joke.  I was assured this forum was better than AN/TV, in fact its far worse.

TT primarily for Informed Truthful Adults …..but tolerates a few village idiots or clowns, for balance

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I worded it badly/simplistically. What I mean is - they are both terrorist organisations that claim to be Islamic and they both have shared goals. Hamas has lost any sliver of legitimacy now in any case and will not be allowed to exist anywhere near Israel.  They set themselves up as a political body - a government.  Last time I looked, governments don't usually behead civillians, burn people alive or take hostages.

I honestly can't see a two state solution working with land organised as it is now - as I said before a re-drawing of the map with a North/South split might work in principle. Would it be acceptable? Not a hope. Then there's the Jerusalem problem.

I guess the reality is that we can look forward to another 80 years of bloodshed and violence.

Hmmmmm , better……..My Edit:-

Replace “ claim to be” with “ are”

Add “ Democratic” in front of “ ….. govts. don’t …….

Add after “violence”;  “ unless all non- Israeli Citizens (Arabs) are pushed out into other nearby Arab States”.

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Afghanistan can be isolated.  Russia is being dealt with by proxy, China is suffering economically and is constrained in Asia by the 7th Fleet, complemented by the Brit and French carriers. 

Luckily all the bad actors are heavily constrained & isolated by suffering Terrible Geography-Culture- Demographics- Economy.

China friendless, Pacific Alliance against them, hemmed in by First Island Chain, Russia (Siberia, Kamchatka) , Himalayas & Malacca Straits.Culture means they can never project any non- missile military power beyond their borders.Demographics mean 50% population collapse in 25-30 years. Few Natural Resources ….apart from one billion warm bodies.

Democracies can afford to simply constrain China ……. and just wait for the whole rotten CCP edifice to collapse by 2040……with China then dividing into smaller non- military areas.

Many of these problems shared to some extent by Russia Iran NKorea……

[oldschooler]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:19 AM, KhaoYai said:

I don't see any point in debating anything with someone who is hell bent on simply defending their position whether its right or wrong? I won't sink to their level, when all they have left is insults, racism and hate, their arguments mean nothing, they've lost. I'll listen to anyone's reasoned point of view but I won't listen to such rubbish so they are on ignore.

Personally, I'm not that interested in the history or the 'they did this', 'they did that's - all that matters is where we are now.  It is entirely possible to sort out the problems in Israel it simply needs the will to do so.  Saying 'simply' may sound ridiculous but this process required is quite simple - its the will that is very very difficult.  People of different races, creeds and colours live together relatively peacfully in many countries.  The problem, as I see it in Israel/Palestine is the involvement of their individual religions within their governance.

There are 2 things that have no place in the governance of any country - providing of course due respect is paid.  Those items are the independence of the judiciary and the non direct involvement of religious bodies in the running of the country. Neither Israel nor Palestine has those pre-conditions - each one's religion is heavily entrenched in their society and governance.

That I and every one of my neighbours wake up each morning and go about our business without fear is proof in itself that people of different religions can live together if the imposition of religious rules and ideals are removed. I have no idea what the beliefs of my neighbours are and it would make no difference to my life if I did.  The difficulty with the two parties in this matter is their history, a history that is still being created today.  The horrific attacks by Hamas on 7 October and the hideous destruction that Israel is carrying out in Gaza today must be put aside to achieve peace.

Utopian?  Of course but what's the alternative - another 80 years of death and destruction? Its possible if the will is there but the 'will' must overcome the history.

Today I saw a news report about a Palestinian football player who is due to play a major international match but is stuck in Gaza. The young guy was standing on the remains of his home (pile of rubble) - a home that had been destroyed by an Israeli air strike. Members of his family were killed and bodies remain under the rubble.

How do you ask that young man to put his history aside and live peacfully without seeking revenge? 

How do you ask the families of those that were beheaded and burned to death by Hamas terrorists on 7 October not to seek revenge?

I have no idea but ask you must - otherwise the circle of revenge will go on.

History is ALL. Israel is SECULAR & RATIONAL. Arabs are Ultra Religious & so IRRATIONAL Savages. 

“ Palestine” has never, does not & never will EXIST.
Ironically because the Arabs have kept Rejecting It, Couldn’t Run It except as a Terror Base and they Make More Pity Money Without It. 

[Manu]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:19 PM, KhaoYai said:

I don't see any point in debating anything with someone who is hell bent on simply defending their position whether its right or wrong? I won't sink to their level, when all they have left is insults, racism and hate, their arguments mean nothing, they've lost. I'll listen to anyone's reasoned point of view but I won't listen to such rubbish so they are on ignore.

Personally, I'm not that interested in the history or the 'they did this', 'they did that's - all that matters is where we are now.  It is entirely possible to sort out the problems in Israel it simply needs the will to do so.  Saying 'simply' may sound ridiculous but this process required is quite simple - its the will that is very very difficult.  People of different races, creeds and colours live together relatively peacfully in many countries.  The problem, as I see it in Israel/Palestine is the involvement of their individual religions within their governance.

There are 2 things that have no place in the governance of any country - providing of course due respect is paid.  Those items are the independence of the judiciary and the non direct involvement of religious bodies in the running of the country. Neither Israel nor Palestine has those pre-conditions - each one's religion is heavily entrenched in their society and governance.

That I and every one of my neighbours wake up each morning and go about our business without fear is proof in itself that people of different religions can live together if the imposition of religious rules and ideals are removed. I have no idea what the beliefs of my neighbours are and it would make no difference to my life if I did.  The difficulty with the two parties in this matter is their history, a history that is still being created today.  The horrific attacks by Hamas on 7 October and the hideous destruction that Israel is carrying out in Gaza today must be put aside to achieve peace.

Utopian?  Of course but what's the alternative - another 80 years of death and destruction? Its possible if the will is there but the 'will' must overcome the history.

Today I saw a news report about a Palestinian football player who is due to play a major international match but is stuck in Gaza. The young guy was standing on the remains of his home (pile of rubble) - a home that had been destroyed by an Israeli air strike. Members of his family were killed and bodies remain under the rubble.

How do you ask that young man to put his history aside and live peacfully without seeking revenge? 

How do you ask the families of those that were beheaded and burned to death by Hamas terrorists on 7 October not to seek revenge?

I have no idea but ask you must - otherwise the circle of revenge will go on.

The thing is it is thethaiger forum and there you have people the way they think… no possibility of being moderate or somehow human, and by that I mean to take somehow the debate directing towards prace and not war. Peace is not fashionable right now. Insult one or two of them if you want to get any intelligent thing out of it, they love it anyway. But if you want to debate, no good here. 

[Manu]

21 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Hmmmmm , better……..My Edit:-

Replace “ claim to be” with “ are”

Add “ Democratic” in front of “ ….. govts. don’t …….

Add after “violence”;  “ unless all non- Israeli Citizens (Arabs) are pushed out into other nearby Arab States”.

Now how strange is someone talking about a country and its people but never been there? A democracy and bla bla bla not longer than 4 months ago and 100s of 1000s were protesting in tel Aviv because democracy they felt was taking away from them by the far righ government. Really when was last time you have been to Israel? How many friends have you got there? No clue poor person that you are. Let’s Kill all Muslims, happy?