News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[Boom]

6 minutes ago, Fanta said:

pfft… both sides are biased and spewing out propaganda. Your incessant cheering of a short sighted “solution” is proof of that. 

Hamas has already made the first move by releasing a few hostages and also proposed a deal for further hostages. Israel’s response has been a solid no. Hopefully they will come to an agreement and more hostages can be safely released. 

pfft, I've only made 3 posts and you're already accusing me of an incessant cheering of a short sighted solution....lol

Please provide the proof of that via way of quoting my incessant cheering?

4 hostages released out of around 240 is not a first move, as for the other proposed deal, there is absolutely no official word on this, just rumour, none of us know all the details, or have you consulted Al Jazeera again..lol

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Boom

[Pinetree]

3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

pfft… both sides are biased and spewing out propaganda. Your incessant cheering of a short sighted “solution” is proof of that. 

Hamas has already made the first move by releasing a few hostages and also proposed a deal for further hostages. Israel’s response has been a solid no. Hopefully they will come to an agreement and more hostages can be safely released. 

They will not and they should not.  We always hear from stupid, insincere, western politicians 'no negotiating  with terrorists' but as we have seen in Northern Ireland, Iraq, Iran and other locations and situations, , that statement is a bare faced lie.  Israel means it. There is no negotiated peace this time.  The cowards in the West can wring their hands as much as they like, protesters can march in every Western City in the World, Israel will not change, stop, or be deflected. Good that someone in this fxxxed up World is prepared to stand up to terrorists.

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

That is a misunderstanding of what is happening here and the probable mindset of Israel.  There is no lee way, no 'give' as you put it and the hostages are not a bargaining chip. 

So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as a bargaining chip? Israel’s mindset may well be that the hostages are expendable but that doesn’t mean everyone agrees with that stance. And let’s not forget that Israel has splattered the world with images of the hostages to elicit our sympathy. If they have no intention of negotiating their release we can only assume that the hostages are being cynically used by both sides who have no genuine concern for their fate nor their best interests at heart. Give Hamas the prisoners they demand in exchange for the hostages and then kill them. What is so hard about that? 

15 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Aljazeera is the very last news outlet that can say anything of any significance in most things, and certainly not on this subject. 

I posted a link to the biased Al Jazeera to show the opposing end of the news spectrum. If some are incapable of discerning the difference then we should blame whoever taught those sheep to read. 

[Fanta]

25 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

There is no negotiated peace this time.  The cowards in the West can wring their hands as much as they like, protesters can march in every Western City in the World, Israel will not change, stop, or be deflected. Good that someone in this fxxxed up World is prepared to stand up to terrorists.

Hang on. I think we have a basic misunderstanding here. imo, a negotiated peace is not on the exchange bingo card.  Instead, a simple exchange of “goods” - hand over the hostages and give Hamas the political prisoners/whatever physical thing they want. Then the conflict continues. No settlement, no terms etc.

[Boom]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as a bargaining chip? Israel’s mindset may well be that the hostages are expendable but that doesn’t mean everyone agrees with that stance. And let’s not forget that Israel has splattered the world with images of the hostages to elicit our sympathy. If they have no intention of negotiating their release we can only assume that the hostages are being cynically used by both sides who have no genuine concern for their fate nor their best interests at heart. Give Hamas the prisoners they demand in exchange for the hostages and then kill them. What is so hard about that? 

I posted a link to the biased Al Jazeera to show the opposing end of the news spectrum. If some are incapable of discerning the difference then we should blame whoever taught those sheep to read. 

Irrelevant, Israel has every intention of finding those hostages and saving them, they are also up for demanding their release as is the UN security council with no pre conditions. Along with the cease fire/pause.

 

Yes AJ where they censor the real voices in the hospital.

 

"Al-Jazeera interviewed an old man in a Gaza hospital, The man criticized Israel for the destruction in Gaza (the journalist is happy).

But then he started to criticise Hamas, "Why is the resistance (Hamas) hiding among the people? They can go to hell and hide there!" 

(The journalist is not happy and cuts him off quickly)"

 

 

 

[Pinetree]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as a bargaining chip? Israel’s mindset may well be that the hostages are expendable but that doesn’t mean everyone agrees with that stance. And let’s not forget that Israel has splattered the world with images of the hostages to elicit our sympathy. If they have no intention of negotiating their release we can only assume that the hostages are being cynically used by both sides who have no genuine concern for their fate nor their best interests at heart. Give Hamas the prisoners they demand in exchange for the hostages and then kill them. What is so hard about that? 

I posted a link to the biased Al Jazeera to show the opposing end of the news spectrum. If some are incapable of discerning the difference then we should blame whoever taught those sheep to read. 

You surely can't be so unknowing that you can't answer those questions yourself. Hamas are terrorist idiots,  low life's, who can't think past their own twisted ideology. Did they even stop to consider the Israel response to their horrific acts?  I doubt they have the brain power to think that far.  Israel is conducting a legal war mission, not using the hostages in any way.  The idiots in Hamas have misread the situation, as they and their Arab neighbors and supporters  have done in every war since 1948 and they will pay for it with the blood of their people and the destruction of that cesspit of an Gaza enclave.   There is no 'opposing end to the news', no alternative narrative, no fairy wish list, 

[Pinetree]

3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Hang on. I think we have a basic misunderstanding here. imo, a negotiated peace is not on the exchange bingo card.  Instead, a simple exchange of “goods” - give us the hostages and we give Hamas the political prisoners/whatever physical thing they want. Then the conflict continues. No settlement, no terms etc.

Oh dear. War is not a gentleman's game 

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

You surely can't be so unknowing that you can't answer those questions yourself.

I believe I have answered it. You, on the other hand, have not. So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as bargaining chips? 

9 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Did they even stop to consider the Israel response to their horrific acts?

I think they believed that it would escalate into a regional conflict. Pretty bad plan if you ask me. 

[Fanta]

12 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Oh dear. War is not a gentleman's game 

Yet Russia and Ukraine exchange POW’s quite often. 

[Pinetree]

Just now, Fanta said:

I believe I have answered it. You, on the other hand, have not. So why did Hamas take the hostages if not to use as bargaining chips? 

I think they believed that it would escalate into a regional conflict. Pretty bad plan if you ask me. 

Of course that is why Hamas took them.  They are idiots, ideological robots, who didn't think it through and clearly didn't anticipate the scale and objective of the Israel response.  Its a clear as day, as it is to them now, as they try to wriggle out of the consequences of the horror they unleashed .  

[Pinetree]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Yet Russia and Ukraine exchange POW’s quite often. 

They are not Israel 

[Fanta]

18 minutes ago, Boom said:

Irrelevant, Israel has every intention of finding those hostages and saving them, they are also up for demanding their release as is the UN security council with no pre conditions. Along with the cease fire/pause.

Ah huh.. finding them under the rubble sounds like a great plan….. 

[Boom]

Just now, Fanta said:

Ah huh.. finding them under the rubble sounds like a great plan….. 

If that was the plan then you may have a point, however the post shows you've got nothing

[Boom]

7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Yet Russia and Ukraine exchange POW’s quite often. 

Babies, children and civilians are not POW's................

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Of course that is why Hamas took them.  They are idiots, ideological robots, who didn't think it through and clearly didn't anticipate the scale and objective of the Israel response.  It’s a clear as day, as it is to them now, as they try to wriggle out of the consequences of the horror they unleashed .  

So why not negotiate? All your emotive defense of Israel’s refusal to negotiate and subsequent actions is doing is portraying them as hellbent on revenge and hang the consequences. Not a good look….

[Pinetree]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So why not negotiate? All your emotive defense of Israel’s refusal to negotiate and subsequent actions is doing is portraying them as hellbent on revenge and hang the consequences. Not a good look….

I'm afraid that your naivety, lack of historical and military knowledge, of Israel's history and culture and the resilience of that Nation to generations of attacks, deaths, terrorism and anti Semitic rhetoric is getting on my nerves.  So, I have said what I needed to say and will leave the post subject to others, who maybe have more time and patience than I have.   

[Boom]

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So why not negotiate? All your emotive defense of Israel’s refusal to negotiate and subsequent actions is doing is portraying them as hellbent on revenge and hang the consequences. Not a good look….

Hamas's aim was to kidnap IDF personal, it got a few but but then went for the easier option of civilians, they messed up big time, they know it. Israel is right in the current action it is taking of zero negotiations on the part of civilians.

[riclag]

6 hours ago, 23RD said:

A picture paints a thousand words. 

Excellent video depicting The Lions struggle to Exist!

6 ,001400 reasons why to not forget to take any $hit from those who rather see you dead than alive! Hopefully 

they will learn from Oct 7,the 1 day of weakness !

imop

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Boom said:

Hamas's aim was to kidnap IDF personal, it got a few but but then went for the easier option of civilians, they messed up big time, they know it. Israel is right in the current action it is taking of zero negotiations on the part of civilians.

Seems as if the IDF disagrees with you. It makes little sense to turn soldiers into POWs when unarmed civilians are plentiful, less troublesome and better suited for the task of attracting global attention.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna121794 

[oldschooler]

A lot of emotional irrational shyte  here about “ genocide” and what Israel “must do .

Here are the salient cold hard Facts of the matter, as Intl. Law, Human Precedent  & Reason :-

Hamas are the elected responsible Govt of an autonomous Gaza

Hamas and only Hamas are therefore solely responsible for the citizens / residents of Gaza, services etc.

Hamas on Oct 7, and for their whole existence, launched an illegal insane fascist genocidal Absolute Total War against Israel. Hamas hit Israel with everything they had so Israel entitled within law to do same.

Hamas thereby took All Gaza into that Total War, citizens & all, all bound together, by their stupid religion epitomised by Hamas as the logical Islamic anti- infidel end game, in evil, hate, insanity,terror & murder.

KEY:Total War has No Separation between Military & Civilians, No Proportionality, No Collective Punishment 

Israel legally responded with Limited Total War (non- nuclear/ non- genocidal/ concessions) with Concessions not needed by law but by circumstantial humanitarian western practice.

Like Warnings,Evacuation Corridors, Attempted Minimisation of “ Civilian” Casualties (Children Only arguably). 
 

Israel clearly does Not Conduct Genocide nor Apartheid.

Proof :Arab population in Israel ten times since 1947.

Proof: 20%Israelis are Arabs with Full Israeli Rights.

[Boom]

23 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Seems as if the IDF disagrees with you. It makes little sense to turn soldiers into POWs when unarmed civilians are plentiful, less troublesome and better suited for the task of attracting global attention.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna121794 

All the more reason for the IDF to eliminate every last one of those terrorists with no concessions, by that I do not necessarily mean kill them all but certainly capture and kill in battle the others. The ones they captured so far are squealing like the rats they are.

 

The Hamas threats re the hostages, yea well that's why you never negotiate:

"Last week, Hamas' armed wing threatened to execute a civilian hostage every time an Israeli airstrike hit Gazans "in their homes without warning," but has made no further announcements despite the ongoing Israeli air raid in Gaza ."

https://www.dw.com/en/what-to-know-about-the-hostages-held-by-hamas/a-67125970

Your previous comparison to POW's in Russia and Ukraine has sort of given you away fella.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Boom

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, Boom said:

All the more reason for the IDF to eliminate every last one of those terrorists with no concessions, by that I do not necessarily mean kill them all but certainly capture and kill in battle the others. The ones they captured so far are squealing like the rats they are.

Kill all the Hamas terrorists, I don’t care. 

9 minutes ago, Boom said:

Your previous comparison to POW's in Russia and Ukraine has sort of given you away fella.

Given me away? I used the POWs as an example of successful prisoner exchanges. Sorry if that destroys your argument against saving non combatant lives. 

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, Boom said:

I think the rules changed on the 7th. Especially after Hamas declared they would be doing this again and again. The only way now is to dismantle them completely. Unconditional release will get them a pause in the fighting but that will still not end it till they are all eliminated.

Who is the 'all' ? If ever Hamas needed a recruitment agent, Israel is it.  How do you think the Palestinians in Gaza feel about Israel now? What must it be like living in Gaza - death all around you, no food, no water, no electricity, constant shelling and air strikes?

Don't get me wrong - what Hamas did on 7 October was horrific and they should be hunted down and punished - just a bunch or terrorists. No way can they ever again be considered a legitimate governing body. Punishing the entire population of Gaza for the actions of Hamas is as bad as what Hamas did in my book. Anyone who thinks Israel's actions are justified might want to consider that position if there kids had just been blown up in an Israeli air strike.

Hamas are not the civillian population of Gaza and certainly not the women and children. Israel's response is out of order and totally disproportionate,  its pure revenge but the revenge is being doled out to the wrong people.  That both sides have commited and continue to commit, serious war crimes is beyond doubt - will anyone be held to account for those crimes, I doubt it.  UN/International laws are a waste of time if they are not enforced.

I fail to see what Israel hopes to achieve from all this - do they think this will be the end of the rockets and bombings?  A lot of the civilians that have been trapped in Gaza - a living hell will also be seeking their revenge when all this is over. Entire families have been wiped out - does Israel think they will just forget what's happened? Could you forget if it was your family?

This has been going on for as long as I can remember and its going to take something pretty major to end it. Both sides need to recognise that they each exist. The Palestinians need to stop their terrorism and Israel needs to stop stealing land and hand back that which they have already stolen. They also need to stop treating the Palestinians that live amongst them as second class citizens. Can they do that? I'd love to think so but its a massive ask. The alternative is that this tit for tat will go on forever.

It is a massive ask but similar things have been achieved before - although there are still some elements that won't give up, Northern Ireland is a mostly peaceful place now.

[Boom]

3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Kill all the Hamas terrorists, I don’t care. 

Given me away? I used the POWs as an example of successful prisoner exchanges. Sorry if that destroys your argument against saving non combatant lives. 

Yes given yourself away, outed yourself, call it what you want, attempting a lame comparison between soldiers from Russia and Ukraine in POW swaps and babies women and children taken hostage by Hamas terrorists is pathetic.

[Boom]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Who is the 'all' ? If ever Hamas needed a recruitment agent, Israel is it.  How do you think the Palestinians in Gaza feel about Israel now? What must it be like living in Gaza - death all around you, no food, no water, no electricity, constant shelling and air strikes?

Don't get me wrong - what Hamas did on 7 October was horrific and they should be hunted down and punished - just a bunch or terrorists. No way can they ever again be considered a legitimate governing body. Punishing the entire population of Gaza for the actions of Hamas is as bad as what Hamas did in my book. Anyone who thinks Israel's actions are justified might want to consider that position if there kids had just been blown up in an Israeli air strike.

Hamas are not the civillian population of Gaza and certainly not the women and children. Israel's response is out of order and totally disproportionate,  its pure revenge but the revenge is being doled out to the wrong people.  That both sides have commited and continue to commit, serious war crimes is beyond doubt - will anyone be held to account for those crimes, I doubt it.  UN/International laws are a waste of time if they are not enforced.

I fail to see what Israel hopes to achieve from all this - do they think this will be the end of the rockets and bombings?  A lot of the civilians that have been trapped in Gaza - a living hell will also be seeking their revenge when all this is over. Entire families have been wiped out - does Israel think they will just forget what's happened? Could you forget if it was your family?

This has been going on for as long as I can remember and its going to take something pretty major to end it. Both sides need to recognise that they each exist. The Palestinians need to stop their terrorism and Israel needs to stop stealing land and hand back that which they have already stolen. They also need to stop treating the Palestinians that live amongst them as second class citizens. Can they do that? I'd love to think so but its a massive ask. The alternative is that this tit for tat will go on forever.

It is a massive ask but similar things have been achieved before - although there are still some elements that won't give up, Northern Ireland is a mostly peaceful place now.

"Who is the 'all' ?"

Hamas terrorists