News Forum - Deputy PM plans to meet with foreign ambassadors to discuss 10-year visa

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Stonker said:

In that case, maybe you could give a link to where you've been encouraging Brits (and others) to write to their MP's about giving Thais "parity" in the UK and elsewhere, as you've been encouraging people to complain to Thai embassies. 

... or maybe not.

You evidently haven't noticed, but I have plenty "negative" to say about Thailand, as well as plenty more that outweighs it that's positive which is why I've chosen to live here.

On the other hand, the only thing positive you and a few others seem to have to say is that the sun shines here. 

If that's your view, fine, no problem, but why fixate on Thailand so obsessively like a fox on grapes if things are so bad when there are a couple of hundred other countries for you to go to and complain about?

Oh ok. So you missed deliberately missed my point and instead of trying to answer you want to deflect and introduce the topic of what have I done in U.K. . 
 

This is a Thai focused forum. We debate issues in Thailand. “You and a few others” seem to think you can win a debate about things that need changing in Thailand (on a Thai focused forum) by deflecting about what is wrong in other country. Well why don’t you start a topic on things wrong in the U.K. and I’ll happily contribute. 
 

So back to the point I raised. PARITY!  If Thailand want to restrict business ownership for example, I have no problem whatsoever. It is their country and their choice. But they shouldn’t have their cake and eat it. The same should apply to Thais owning a business in the U.K.  Of course I know why the UK don’t do it, but I feel it’s wrong and wish there was parity. 
 

 

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Stonker said:

I think you need to re-read the post I was replying to, as what I wrote had nothing to do with "many Thais drive motorbikes and cars without a license" but was about @Stardust's novel idea that "And surly not tourists from europe they are covert by their insurances and a cheap top up for traveling any destination in the world and most are credit card holders and covert by their health insurance for travelling".

Rich coming from you to have a go at someone who misses a point! I read that you were complaining about foreigners as you seem to do. However, unlike you, I’m happy to apologise if I misread your post. I’m sorry for misreading your post. 

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, LoongFred said:

This was why the 500 baht landing fee will soon start.

Additionally, those who rent motor bikes should be required to charge more and include insurance. 

They already put 500 baht (possibly 700) in to the air ticket back in 2006 I think it was. Previously it was a departure tax paid in cash. This additional 500 is just the Thai government seizing an opportunity based on a pandemic and linking it to medical treatment. Is just another scam to get more money out of foreigners. All bike and car hire should include insurance and anyone renting a vehicle to a foreigner without a licence should have the business closed. Of course that will never happen as it’s too obvious and a correct way to do things.  

[LoongFred]

26 minutes ago, Soidog said:

First thing Uncle Fred. I spend most of my time in Thailand and only leave when my work takes me away. Don’t get me confused with an occasional tourist.
 

Secondly, you have done what you always do which is miss the point and try to deflect. Question still stands. Why is asking for equally parity for Thai citizens  and U.K. citizens in each other’s country “entitled”. Answer the question and then move to another topic. You won’t because you can’t. 

I though you said you were stuck in the UK. If not, my error. If you have been here for a long time, you should realize that you are wasting your breath for British rights in Thailand.  If you want your rights you should become a Thai citizen.  

The US offers investors special visas once they request the require amount. In Thailand there are talks about doing the same.  However,  it won't be cheap. 

In the mean time you aren't entitled to any extras.

[LoongFred]

7 minutes ago, Soidog said:

They already put 500 baht (possibly 700) in to the air ticket back in 2006 I think it was. Previously it was a departure tax paid in cash. This additional 500 is just the Thai government seizing an opportunity based on a pandemic and linking it to medical treatment. Is just another scam to get more money out of foreigners. All bike and car hire should include insurance and anyone renting a vehicle to a foreigner without a licence should have the business closed. Of course that will never happen as it’s too obvious and a correct way to do things.  

Other places might be of interest to you, now that you are disappointed with the Thai approach. 

[mickkotlarski]

7 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Your not even in Thailand or a Thai citizen.  Move to Thailand become a citizen when ask for your entitled rights. 

If obtaining Thai citizenship is straight forward and dual citizenship an easy option then please do tell how it can be obtained as it is often a long and tedious process that leads to failure.

Parity is not a taboo topic.

I have seen some Thai's have very big difficulties obtaining basic visas to visit Western nations just as I was treated appallingly in the Thai embassy when trying to fly home from Tokyo. If not for my wife contacting the government hotline I would have had an even rougher time of it. 

Many expats that have bought land and set up homes in their Thai partners name will lose their right to live in that home even with a Last Will and Testament leaving an estate should their partner pass away. They must move out of their own home. Should there be no will it reverts to the spouses family. Be it that the ones spouse parted ways with the family and/or the family did jack and inherited purely by being related.

There are numerous laws that can be unjust towards many on both sides of the fence. Unless your very wealthy and pay your way to justice there should be some leeway in special cases.

Many of the tough laws that governing bodies issue have their reason but often they are poorly thought out.

I'm not asking for anything from the Thai government and nor should I. I'm not a citizen and the locals themselves get next to squat.

I'll earn my own way but I do ask them to turn down the dirty falang narrative that Anutin spews out and stop taking all these "extras" at a time when many are hit economically by the pandemic.

 

 

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I though you said you were stuck in the UK. If not, my error. If you have been here for a long time, you should realize that you are wasting your breath for British rights in Thailand.  If you want your rights you should become a Thai citizen.  

The US offers investors special visas once they request the require amount. In Thailand there are talks about doing the same.  However,  it won't be cheap. 

In the mean time you aren't entitled to any extras.

I’m currently in the U.K. but not stuck. I was stuck when the pandemic hit, but now the only things stopping me returning are the unwillingness to jump through so many hoops (until recently) and a piece of work which will conclude end of the year. After that I shall return to beautiful, amazing, wonderful, outstanding Thailand. 
 

My point was to acknowledge I am wasting my breath on trying to get rights for British in Thailand changed. I was suggesting that what should happen; as they won’t change, is apply parity on key issues such as business ownership for Thais in the U.K.  if I can’t own a business 100% in Thailand, then why should a Thai National be able to own one in the U.K.   I’m happy for all things being fair and equal. In both directions. 

[LoongFred]

1 minute ago, Soidog said:

I’m currently in the U.K. but not stuck. I was stuck when the pandemic hit, but now the only things stopping me returning are the unwillingness to jump through so many hoops (until recently) and a piece of work which will conclude end of the year. After that I shall return to beautiful, amazing, wonderful, outstanding Thailand. 
 

My point was to acknowledge I am wasting my breath on trying to get rights for British in Thailand changed. I was suggesting that what should happen; as they won’t change, is apply parity on key issues such as business ownership for Thais in the U.K.  if I can’t own a business 100% in Thailand, then why should a Thai National be able to own one in the U.K.   I’m happy for all things being fair and equal. In both directions. 

Maybe you should approach your government representative to make things equal.  Maybe reducing foreign rights in the UK would make sense but the UK probably wants the cash. Change can go both ways but I think you are only blowing in the wind.

[LoongFred]

8 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m currently in the U.K. but not stuck. I was stuck when the pandemic hit, but now the only things stopping me returning are the unwillingness to jump through so many hoops (until recently) and a piece of work which will conclude end of the year. After that I shall return to beautiful, amazing, wonderful, outstanding Thailand. 
 

My point was to acknowledge I am wasting my breath on trying to get rights for British in Thailand changed. I was suggesting that what should happen; as they won’t change, is apply parity on key issues such as business ownership for Thais in the U.K.  if I can’t own a business 100% in Thailand, then why should a Thai National be able to own one in the U.K.   I’m happy for all things being fair and equal. In both directions. 

The 10 year visa seems perfect for you. It's for wealthy investors and high skill people. If you fit either category it might be good for you.

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

If obtaining Thai citizenship is straight forward and dual citizenship an easy option then please do tell how it can be obtained as it is often a long and tedious process that leads to failure.

Parity is not a taboo topic.

I have seen some Thai's have very big difficulties obtaining basic visas to visit Western nations just as I was treated appallingly in the Thai embassy when trying to fly home from Tokyo. If not for my wife contacting the government hotline I would have had an even rougher time of it. 

Many expats that have bought land and set up homes in their Thai partners name will lose their right to live in that home even with a Last Will and Testament leaving an estate should their partner pass away. They must move out of their own home. Should there be no will it reverts to the spouses family. Be it that the ones spouse parted ways with the family and/or the family did jack and inherited purely by being related.

There are numerous laws that can be unjust towards many on both sides of the fence. Unless your very wealthy and pay your way to justice there should be some leeway in special cases.

Many of the tough laws that governing bodies issue have their reason but often they are poorly thought out.

I'm not asking for anything from the Thai government and nor should I. I'm not a citizen and the locals themselves get next to squat.

I'll earn my own way but I do ask them to turn down the dirty falang narrative that Anutin spews out and stop taking all these "extras" at a time when many are hit economically by the pandemic.

Spot on comments there @mickkotlarski  

 

I realise things in terms of parity will never change. If I could have the conversation with the U.K.  government as to why they allow Thais to own a business and own property etc, they would of course make a sound economic argument in favour of foreign investment. The Thais of course are slowly and begrudgingly moving in that direction. Having spent generations of time nurturing a siege mentality and brainwashing the population that foreigners need to be treated with caution, they now struggle to convince themselves and the Thai population that foreign ownership is ok and a good thing economically. 
 

The same goes for employment rights and trying to grow your economy with and ageing and largely unskilled workforce. Even Japan is now having to open up certain jobs to foreigners for similar reasons.  
 

My moment of dreaming was simply to say that if I magically was in control of the U.K., I simply wouldn’t allow the Thais (or other countries) to move at their pace and dictate the agenda. Either open up land ownership and business ownership to U.K. citizen now, or sell 51% of your business and revoke your land title deeds within 12 month. You choose ! 

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Maybe you should approach your government representative to make things equal.  Maybe reducing foreign rights in the UK would make sense but the UK probably wants the cash. Change can go both ways but I think you are only blowing in the wind.

Well I have and of course you know the response and the argument in favour of foreign investment. You can’t achieve the kind of development and economics without it. Thailand will do the same but it will take another 200-300 years. It was the principle of the disparity I was highlighting rather than the practicality of change.  

[Stonker]

39 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Oh ok. So you missed deliberately missed my point and instead of trying to answer you want to deflect and introduce the topic of what have I done in U.K. . 
 

This is a Thai focused forum. We debate issues in Thailand. “You and a few others” seem to think you can win a debate about things that need changing in Thailand (on a Thai focused forum) by deflecting about what is wrong in other country. Well why don’t you start a topic on things wrong in the U.K. and I’ll happily contribute. 
 

So back to the point I raised. PARITY!  If Thailand want to restrict business ownership for example, I have no problem whatsoever. It is their country and their choice. But they shouldn’t have their cake and eat it. The same should apply to Thais owning a business in the U.K.  Of course I know why the UK don’t do it, but I feel it’s wrong and wish there was parity. 
 

No, I'm not "missing" any point and certainly not yours, and there's no "deflection" on my part, nor have I got any interest in what's "wrong" in the UK or any other country except occasionally as a direct comparator.

You're all too clearly not interested in "parity", either in what you write or between Thailand and the UK or anywhere else, and all you're interested in is complaining that Thailand doesn't give you what you think you're entitled to, totally ignoring that there are NO reciprocal agreements on ANY of the issues discussed here so there's no reason why either country should.

You're the one constantly raising the point about what the UK allows Thais to do but Thailand doesn't allow Brits to do, ignoring that there are also plenty of things Thailand allows Brits to do but the UK doesn't allow Thais to do.

I'm simply trying to bring some "PARITY" to the debate by pointing out that it works both ways over different issues as it does for every country in the world.

If that doesn't suit you because it makes you look a bit of an entitled whinger who doesn't care about "parity" except where it suits you, well .....

[mickkotlarski]

2 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Spot on comments there @mickkotlarski  

I realise things in terms of parity will never change. If I could have the conversation with the U.K.  government as to why they allow Thais to own a business and own property etc, they would of course make a sound economic argument in favour of foreign investment. The Thais of course are slowly and begrudgingly moving in that direction. Having spent generations of time nurturing a siege mentality and brainwashing the population that foreigners need to be treated with caution, they now struggle to convince themselves and the Thai population that foreign ownership is ok and a good thing economically. 
 

The same goes for employment rights and trying to grow your economy with and ageing and largely unskilled workforce. Even Japan is now having to open up certain jobs to foreigners for similar reasons.  
 

My moment of dreaming was simply to say that if I magically was in control of the U.K., I simply wouldn’t allow the Thais (or other countries) to move at their pace and dictate the agenda. Either open up land ownership and business ownership to U.K. citizen now, or sell 51% of your business and revoke your land title deeds within 12 month. You choose ! 

Fortunately I know many Thai's that are very sympathetic. I'm actually optimistic that a post Junta government will see a return to Democracy and a bit more understanding for locally based foreigners.

As mentioned I don't need special deals or hand outs but as a person that has Thai family the powers at be are truly ignorant and see a quick profit from ridiculous policies. I'm sick of seeing my interest in my Thai bank accounts cut because I'm a "dirty falang". I couldn't give a rats if I need to pay a tab extra for hospital services as they are still good quality and fairly priced. My beef is not with the locals but I understand fully their disappointment with so many draconian policies.

Stonker and Loongfred aren't wrong either. We are not locals by blood but some parity from all parties would be a breathe of fresh air. Lack of parity is quite often associated with both exploitation and bias.

 

 

[Soidog]

33 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Other places might be of interest to you, now that you are disappointed with the Thai approach. 

You know Uncle Fred. I know there is a group of people on this forum such as yourself, who totally and utterly miss the point of this forum and what many members say. I really must copy what I’m about to say and paste it many times a day. 
 

This is a forum based on Thailand. It is for people who mainly live and visit  Thailand. There are many things that are wonderful and amazing about the people and the country and I wouldn’t change those things for a second. However, if those things are right and perfect then why complain and change them? So people don’t complain and request change about those things. What they do, is question, highlight, complain and suggest errors and a way to improve on the things that are wrong. On the things that are in need of change and improvement (in their opinion). Consequently, and unsurprisingly, they become the hot topics. 
 

People such as yourself then miss that all important point and think the way to counter it is to highlight failures in the country of the people complaining. Well we know that already. We try to bring about changes in our own countries through votes and even letters to councils and government. But that’s for a British forum or a US forum, not Thaiger forum. 
 

If you wish to get a more balanced view in order to see most of the people who upset you are in fact fair minded and hold a balanced view, then start a topic such as “what are the top things that are wrong in the U.K.”. I will happily supply you with a list as long as my arm. I’m doing “my bit” to change them by working here, voting here, and at one time was a local council member here. So please stop trying to kill off a simple and obvious highlighting of things which need improving in Thailand  by forever deflecting with comments like: Well it’s even worse in the U.K.  or Not as expensive as the US.  We aren’t debating U.K. and US in most instances on this forum. That’s the point!! 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Secondly, you have done what you always do which is miss the point and try to deflect.

Funny - you seem to say that to anyone who disagrees with you!

 

[Soidog]

29 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Fortunately I know many Thai's that are very sympathetic. I'm actually optimistic that a post Junta government will see a return to Democracy and a bit more understanding for locally based foreigners.

As mentioned I don't need special deals or hand outs but as a person that has Thai family the powers at be are truly ignorant and see a quick profit from ridiculous policies. I'm sick of seeing my interest in my Thai bank accounts cut because I'm a "dirty falang". I couldn't give a rats if I need to pay a tab extra for hospital services as they are still good quality and fairly priced. My beef is not with the locals but I understand fully their disappointment with so many draconian policies.

Stonker and Loongfred aren't wrong either. We are not locals by blood but some parity from all parties would be a breathe of fresh air. Lack of parity is quite often associated with both exploitation and bias.

Again mate I couldn’t disagree at all. I’m not and never would expect anything special or the same rights as a Thai citizen. If I wanted that then I should work to be a Thai citizen. I think like you, all I want is a more reasonable and less draconian approach to foreigners. For example It is completely wrong that someone who has a wife, raises kids, buys property and even employs people in a business is treated in the way they are. 

As you say, the likes of those you mentioned aren’t wrong as such. They just miss the reason why people point these things out and think we all dislike Thailand and should go elsewhere. They continually try to win the debate by throwing out something that is equally wrong in the U.S, U.K. or EU, as though two wrongs make a right.  Nothing could be further from the truth and hence in that sense, they are wrong! 

[Soidog]

42 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

The 10 year visa seems perfect for you. It's for wealthy investors and high skill people. If you fit either category it might be good for you.

I’ve looked in to a number of these long term initiatives. Although they are expensive, a few times they have come close to working out in terms of less hassle. The key problem with them all however, is they are time limited. Even in the case of the 10 year one, I think it’s actually a 5+5. It’s simply too risky meeting those levels of financial commitment only to have it taken away after 5 years. In addition, the unstable political situation in Thailand also means it could change in a heartbeat. Something which many foreign investors will be wary of. 

[Soidog]

20 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Funny - you seem to say that to anyone who disagrees with you!

No Stonker. I say it to people who deflect when they are losing the debate. As you have just done once again. You can’t win a debate on a topic such as land ownership in Thailand by pointing out things wrong in another country. 
 

I would imagine if you worked for Boeing and the NTSB pointed out problems with a part of the aircraft systems, your reply would be to say “Well at least it’s more reliable than a similar system in a BMW car!!  
 

Your “two wrongs make a right” approach simply misses what intelligent debate is about. Furthermore, it misses the point that this is also a forum for some lighthearted banter and some cheeky comments about our hosts from time to time. Try to relax more.

[Benroon]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:31 AM, gummy said:

But in truth the UK have been the worlds best money launderers so its that business that interests them, not the fair well being of their own nationals.

They were yes but it's very very difficult to do now. Put a fiver in your current account and the bank will call you to find out where it came from! There are very heavy prison sentences for money laundering in the UK and even the first offence usually means jail! Very serious offence.

I'm going to get stoned to death on here now but I can understand the thai take on land ownership. I wish it wasn't the case as I would love to own land but they do it else huge swathes of Thailand would fall under foreign ownership meaning a significantly poorer populace would have no chance of ever buying a home, or worse still lose their homes to rich developers. The Russian oligarchs did it in London from 2000-2015, so badly that they had to bring in draconian capital gains taxes to try and stem it. I think in South West England they build houses now with the specification that you can only buy if you live in the area (no second homes etc)

As there is virtually no planning permission system in Thailand, you would have land owning westerners bulldozing every prime bit of land to build mega villas and if a few thai shacks are in the way, tough shit on them.

I would celebrate the day we can own land with everyone else, but I understand why we can't.

OK stone away ......

 

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Oh ok. So you missed deliberately missed my point and instead of trying to answer you want to deflect and introduce the topic of what have I done in U.K. . 
 

This is a Thai focused forum. We debate issues in Thailand. “You and a few others” seem to think you can win a debate about things that need changing in Thailand (on a Thai focused forum) by deflecting about what is wrong in other country. Well why don’t you start a topic on things wrong in the U.K. and I’ll happily contribute. 
 

So back to the point I raised. PARITY!  If Thailand want to restrict business ownership for example, I have no problem whatsoever. It is their country and their choice. But they shouldn’t have their cake and eat it. The same should apply to Thais owning a business in the U.K.  Of course I know why the UK don’t do it, but I feel it’s wrong and wish there was parity. 
 

OK yes it needs to focus and what's in store with the proposed visa for wealthy or high skilled professionals.

May I ask your business connections, because in previous threads you were critical of restrictions on bars and entertainment. If this wasn't true , please accept my apology, but it lead me to believe you want to open a bar or something similar. Since Thais do well enough without foreign competition, it's not something appealing to the government. Maybe if you want to invest in an area not currently served you might have a chance, if you bring enough money.

 

[Stonker]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

No Stonker. I say it to people who deflect when they are losing the debate. As you have just done once again. You can’t win a debate on a topic such as land ownership in Thailand by pointing out things wrong in another country. 
 

I would imagine if you worked for Boeing and the NTSB pointed out problems with a part of the aircraft systems, your reply would be to say “Well at least it’s more reliable than a similar system in a BMW car!!  
 

Your “two wrongs make a right” approach simply misses what intelligent debate is about. Furthermore, it misses the point that this is also a forum for some lighthearted banter and some cheeky comments about our hosts from time to time. Try to relax more.

I wasn't pointing out that there were "things wrong in another country", though - just things wrong with what you were saying!

Maybe if you spent less time criticising other posters and reporting and complaining about them, and pontificating about how the forum should be run to suit you, we could all get along rather better and your contributions may be more on point and useful.

Maybe.

[gummy]

1 minute ago, LoongFred said:

Since Thais do well enough without foreign competition,

Not much foreign competition allowable  to challenge the pseudo monopolies protected by  Government or higher positions  in Thailand  but the  level of depravity and corruption enjoyed by Thais in those exalted and protected  positions is envied by many Nigerians and others with a sick persona of  opiniated deserved obedience. Frankly euthansia would be too kind for these people. 

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I'm going to get stoned to death on here now but I can understand the thai take on land ownership. I wish it wasn't the case as I would love to own land but they do it else huge swathes of Thailand would fall under foreign ownership meaning a significantly poorer populace would have no chance of ever buying a home, or worse still lose their homes to rich developers. The Russian oligarchs did it in London from 2000-2015, so badly that they had to bring in draconian capital gains taxes to try and stem it. I think in South West England they build houses now with the specification that you can only buy if you live in the area (no second homes etc)

As there is virtually no planning permission system in Thailand, you would have land owning westerners bulldozing every prime bit of land to build mega villas and if a few thai shacks are in the way, tough shit on them.

I would celebrate the day we can own land with everyone else, but I understand why we can't.

OK stone away ......

Very, very true.

We live out in the sticks, a bit outside the village, and pretty much as far up the hill towards the national park as you can get and still have a chanute.

Any further out and, apart from in a village where there's safety in numbers, if you build a decent house it's likely to be "confiscated" by someone - as the village policeman warned us. A Thai did exactly that at much the same time as us and within a year - "confiscated".

We paid over the odds for what was essentially farm land, the same price as in the village - and now anyone buying land in the same sort of area pays the same inflated price if it's fronting the road.

[Benroon]

43 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’ve looked in to a number of these long term initiatives. Although they are expensive, a few times they have come close to working out in terms of less hassle. The key problem with them all however, is they are time limited. Even in the case of the 10 year one, I think it’s actually a 5+5. It’s simply too risky meeting those levels of financial commitment only to have it taken away after 5 years. In addition, the unstable political situation in Thailand also means it could change in a heartbeat. Something which many foreign investors will be wary of. 

Yep - I read them all and look at the elite at least once a year just for an easy life like you say, and everytime something just pulls me back (not necessarily the cost) - will probably jump one day if it's sensible enough.

[Soidog]

13 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

OK yes it needs to focus and what's in store with the proposed visa for wealthy or high skilled professionals.

May I ask your business connections, because in previous threads you were critical of restrictions on bars and entertainment. If this wasn't true , please accept my apology, but it lead me to believe you want to open a bar or something similar. Since Thais do well enough without foreign competition, it's not something appealing to the government. Maybe if you want to invest in an area not currently served you might have a chance, if you bring enough money.

Oh no I have no interest at all in opening a bar or restaurant. You must be confusing me with another member. The only way I would ever open a bar would be to finance a Thai bar/restaurant and keep well out of the way. I would want the Thais to assume it’s entirely owned by Thais! 
 

My line of business is to provide consultancy services and operate an associate model whereby we draw in expertise dependant on the clients requirements. Nothing involved in bars or restaurants.