News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[KRLMRX]

50 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Fact 1 - Was this "talk" being done before of after Russian troops started to mass on Ukraine's borders? Makes a difference. Never the less, just talk isn't justification for an invasion. Not when it would make Ukraine a pariah state, and destroy any chance of joining the EU and NATO. Certainly not when no action was taken behind this talk and it would take at least a decade to create a weapon.

Fact 2 - Supporting what? Creating nuclear weapons or joining NATO? The first would be absurd and unnecessary, the second was never going to happen as long as Russia occupied Crimea. It's a non-point. 

Fact 3 - See fact 2

Fact 4 - A so called fact that's been debunked.  Russian, Chinese Media Seize on Theory About US Bio-Labs in Ukraine (businessinsider.com) 

I see a lot of speculation, theory and claims, but no actual facts and certainly no proof. 

fact 1 - the conversation has been going on since 2004, when the first pro-Western president Yushchenko came to power.

fact 2 - joining NATO. It was officially said that this would definitely happen (apparently, it was supposed to take Crimea from Russia for this).

fact 4 - Nuland said that there are biolaboratories, but does not recognize them as American, we are waiting for evidence and rebuttals.

https://youtu.be/tteiJcGnbQM

 

 

[Rookiescot]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Agree but how are you going to do that?

Where was all this outrage and sanctions when he invaded crimea? Maybe if there had of been Putin would have thought twice before invading the rest of Ukraine. 

Instead he thinks NATO are weak and haven't got the balls to take him on. NATO aren't doing anything to make him change his mind either. 

Putin will only be stopped by force, he gets assassinated or a deal is made to keep him happy. 

Force is out the question because he's got 6k nuclear missiles he's crazy enough to use so either of the other two options will do me as long as its done quickly to end the fighting

Because the west needs to call his bluff so the spineless clowns in the Kremlin actually decide enough is enough. I keep hearing about how Czar Putin is some strategic genius. He is not. He is a power crazed psycho who believes he is.

One of two scenarios is true here. Either Czar Putin is right to try and create a greater Russian empire or he is wrong. There is no longer any middle ground. He will not stop here. If this works out for him he will simply keep taking over his neighbors knowing the west will not stop it for fear of triggering WW3. Back home his popularity will rocket.

There has been enough appeasement done with this little clown.  

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

fact 1 - the conversation has been going on since 2004, when the first pro-Western president Yushchenko came to power.

fact 2 - joining NATO. It was officially said that this would definitely happen (apparently, it was supposed to take Crimea from Russia for this).

fact 4 - Nuland said that there are biolaboratories, but does not recognize them as American, we are waiting for evidence and rebuttals.

https://youtu.be/tteiJcGnbQM

Fact1 Yushchenko was poisoned by who?

Fact2 Give links where this was said it would definitely happen.

Fact4 So more lies then. I am astonished at this development. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Because the west needs to call his bluff so the spineless clowns in the Kremlin actually decide enough is enough. I keep hearing about how Czar Putin is some strategic genius. He is not. He is a power crazed psycho who believes he is.

One of two scenarios is true here. Either Czar Putin is right to try and create a greater Russian empire or he is wrong. There is no longer any middle ground. He will not stop here. If this works out for him he will simply keep taking over his neighbors knowing the west will not stop it for fear of triggering WW3. Back home his popularity will rocket.

There has been enough appeasement done with this little clown.  

Very well put

I'm not sure the west has what it takes to call his bluff but we'll see. They'll have to do something eventually if, as you say, he doesn't stop at Ukraine. 

Personally I don't think he'll go further than Ukraine. Not because he's some strategic genius but because he knows his limits. I could be wrong of course but I hope not

I do believe if this moral outrage had of been directed when he took crimea then this wouldn't have happened but too late for that now

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Very well put

I'm not sure the west has what it takes to call his bluff but we'll see. They'll have to do something eventually if, as you say, he doesn't stop at Ukraine. 

Personally I don't think he'll go further than Ukraine. Not because he's some strategic genius but because he knows his limits. I could be wrong of course but I hope not

I do believe if this moral outrage had of been directed when he took crimea then this wouldn't have happened but too late for that now

Crimea was a predominately Russian region. They did not invade as such they simply walked into the place to open arms. Everyone knew it was a waste of time trying to reverse that. Even the Ukrainians.

[EdwardV]

10 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

fact 1 - the conversation has been going on since 2004, when the first pro-Western president Yushchenko came to power.

fact 2 - joining NATO. It was officially said that this would definitely happen (apparently, it was supposed to take Crimea from Russia for this).

fact 4 - Nuland said that there are biolaboratories, but does not recognize them as American, we are waiting for evidence and rebuttals.

 

Fact 1 - You conveniently left out the pro-Russian president. You know the one so often claimed to have been overthrown. So no, it's not been going on since 2004. 

Fact 2 - A baseless claim to say the least. Fact is Ukraine was by rule precluded from joining NATO. As long as Russia was sitting in Crimea (and they were never leaving), Ukraine was never joining NATO. A Russian red herring if there ever was one. 

Fact 4 - So we are waiting for proof of a claim you made as fact. ok.

The Russians are good at making baseless claims and then doubling down on them later. You know like the claim the maternity and children's hospital was actually filled with Ukrainian soldiers while offering no proof what so ever.  Like the claim the pregnant women had already been removed before bombing, and the pictures of them leaving surrounded by bombed rubble were faked. Again with no proof being offered or even promised. 

[Fester]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

fact 1 - the conversation has been going on since 2004, when the first pro-Western president Yushchenko came to power.

fact 2 - joining NATO. It was officially said that this would definitely happen (apparently, it was supposed to take Crimea from Russia for this).

fact 4 - Nuland said that there are biolaboratories, but does not recognize them as American, we are waiting for evidence and rebuttals.

https://youtu.be/tteiJcGnbQM

This biocrap was never raised by Putin before he started bombing kids.

[Fester]

56 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Very well put

I'm not sure the west has what it takes to call his bluff but we'll see. They'll have to do something eventually if, as you say, he doesn't stop at Ukraine. 

Personally I don't think he'll go further than Ukraine. Not because he's some strategic genius but because he knows his limits. I could be wrong of course but I hope not

I do believe if this moral outrage had of been directed when he took crimea then this wouldn't have happened but too late for that now

Crimea annexation. Condemnation from most of the free world (sometimes I wonder) and weak words and action (sanctions and selective asset freezes) from the USA under Obama and you know who. Some loans and other aid and support for Ukraine.  

But far too little to to make Vlad the Bad think twice about starting this madness. I hope you're right and he doesn't go further. 

 

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Fact1 Yushchenko was poisoned by who?

Fact2 Give links where this was said it would definitely happen.

Fact4 So more lies then. I am astonished at this development. 

I don't know who poisoned him, ask the Bundeswehr.

Zelensky assured that he was promised

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/biden-says-it-remains-be-seen-if-ukraine-will-be-n1270807

It says here that in 2008 NATO adopted a declaration on Ukraine's accession to NATO. I don’t know, maybe it’s a lie, but Putin seems to have believed Zelensky

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2021/06/15/we-need-more-before-ukraine-can-join-nato-says-stoltenberg/

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation assures that this is a payroll in one of the biological laboratories in Ukraine, it indicates US government agencies, possibly a fake

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, EdwardV said:

You know like the claim the maternity and children's hospital was actually filled with Ukrainian soldiers while offering no proof what so ever.  Like the claim the pregnant women had already been removed before bombing, and the pictures of them leaving surrounded by bombed rubble were faked. Again with no proof being offered or even promised. 

if you want to hear alternative arguments:

 1. No soaring/smoking of the soil in places of alleged ammunition explosions.

 2. There is no dust suspension on the street and in the building from the destruction of plasterboard walls and ceilings, as well as from the destroyed ventilated facade of the building (the inner lining of which is made of glass wool).

 3. Not in the pictures: women with newborns, maternity hospital staff, emergency medical personnel and rescuers. Only representatives of VFU and “photo models”.

 4. There is a huge amount of broken glass in the corridors and premises of the institution. That is, the gaps were outside the building and the glass flew into the premises as a shock wave. With such destruction, there would have been a huge number of victims with characteristic injuries: faces and hands cut by glass fragments. In the pictures, none of the (two!) "models" has such damage. Hands, all without exception, without any damage and traces of blood. As, however, there are no injured or dead in the corridors and premises of the maternity hospital.

 5. Faces, hair, outerwear and blankets of the "injured" without traces of blood, dirt, dust and soot.

 6. The poses of the models are static, there is no dynamics or rush in the pictures, except for the frame with the stretcher.

 7. Group shot + model with a blanket. On the left side of the frame are representatives of the VFU, who are heating something in pots over a fire.

 9. A close-up portrait of a masked girl. The same ... no damage and no dust, dirt on the hair, face and hands. Fresh manicure on the nails. The mask is also obviously new, dressed so that the face is unrecognizable.

 10. Traces of gore on the faces are also strangely shaped. That is, it looks like small local bleeding, in which the person was lying and the blood had time to clot. There are no streaks across the entire face, like a vertically standing person. No blood drops on clothes. In addition, even when a person's nose bleeds, he instinctively wipes it off. That is, if a person was injured, the victim would at least once try to wipe the blood or make sure that he was really injured.

 11. File numbering and overwritten EXIF data. All pictures were taken with a professional camera, not phones. There is not a single picture from civil services or casual eyewitnesses.

[butterfly]

earlier today, there was hope for peace when Ukraine foreign minister met Russia foreign minister

but Ukraine pride got into the way, they refuse to meet the terms to end the war, even though they are reasonable, but that would mean loss of face for President Zelensky

can't let that happen, so let's sacrifice a few more innocent civilians to save the Zelensky political face

this war is a farce, it was not needed, it takes 2 to start a war

[Fester]

1 hour ago, butterfly said:

back to posting, apparently I offended someone here and got suspended for it. So much for free speech Ukraine style

anyway, Zelensky making public declarations he no longer wishes to join NATO if that can stop the war, finally getting somewhere

and no planes from Poland or NATO

Putin plan is starting to work,

Such brilliance! But I wonder how many widows will thank him?

[Fester]

54 minutes ago, butterfly said:

earlier today, there was hope for peace when Ukraine foreign minister met Russia foreign minister

but Ukraine pride got into the way, they refuse to meet the terms to end the war, even though they are reasonable, but that would mean loss of face for President Zelensky

can't let that happen, so let's sacrifice a few more innocent civilians to save the Zelensky political face

this war is a farce, it was not needed, it takes 2 to start a war

I don't think Hitler would have agreed with that last bit.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

if you want to hear alternative arguments:

 1. No soaring/smoking of the soil in places of alleged ammunition explosions.

 2. There is no dust suspension on the street and in the building from the destruction of plasterboard walls and ceilings, as well as from the destroyed ventilated facade of the building (the inner lining of which is made of glass wool).

 3. Not in the pictures: women with newborns, maternity hospital staff, emergency medical personnel and rescuers. Only representatives of VFU and “photo models”.

 4. There is a huge amount of broken glass in the corridors and premises of the institution. That is, the gaps were outside the building and the glass flew into the premises as a shock wave. With such destruction, there would have been a huge number of victims with characteristic injuries: faces and hands cut by glass fragments. In the pictures, none of the (two!) "models" has such damage. Hands, all without exception, without any damage and traces of blood. As, however, there are no injured or dead in the corridors and premises of the maternity hospital.

 5. Faces, hair, outerwear and blankets of the "injured" without traces of blood, dirt, dust and soot.

 6. The poses of the models are static, there is no dynamics or rush in the pictures, except for the frame with the stretcher.

 7. Group shot + model with a blanket. On the left side of the frame are representatives of the VFU, who are heating something in pots over a fire.

 9. A close-up portrait of a masked girl. The same ... no damage and no dust, dirt on the hair, face and hands. Fresh manicure on the nails. The mask is also obviously new, dressed so that the face is unrecognizable.

 10. Traces of gore on the faces are also strangely shaped. That is, it looks like small local bleeding, in which the person was lying and the blood had time to clot. There are no streaks across the entire face, like a vertically standing person. No blood drops on clothes. In addition, even when a person's nose bleeds, he instinctively wipes it off. That is, if a person was injured, the victim would at least once try to wipe the blood or make sure that he was really injured.

 11. File numbering and overwritten EXIF data. All pictures were taken with a professional camera, not phones. There is not a single picture from civil services or casual eyewitnesses.

You really do come out with a lot of cods, Clouseau.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

7. Group shot + model with a blanket. On the left side of the frame are representatives of the VFU, who are heating something in pots over a fire.

You know in the old days Russia could make up these stories and get away with them. There was no way to verify either way. Not anymore. The "model story" being floated by Russia has already been debunked:

 

The embassy tried to insinuate that the woman—who has been identified as blogger Marianna Podgurskaya, according to one of the many photographers who took her photo crawling out of the rubble, and whose open Instagram account @gixie_beauty has chronicled her pregnancy—was a crisis actor. “She actually played roles of both pregnant women on the photos,” the Russian embassy tweeted, going on to say the first photo was taken by Evgeniy Maloletka, a freelance photographer and filmmaker who has been risking his life to chronicle the Russian invasion of Ukraine since the beginning—and whom Russia considers a provocateur. The embassy neglected to mention how many other photographers, including Associated Press photographer Mstyslav Chernov, also photographed the traumatized blogger, whose life was threatened in the attack that killed three people. The Daily Beast has reached out to Podgurskaya for comment and it is unclear how her late-term pregnancy is progressing after the attack.

Russia Says Injured Pregnant Woman Is a Crisis Actor. She’s Actually a Pregnant Blogger. (msn.com)

The embassy in question is the Russian Embassy in London. I get Russia needs to float all this fake propaganda as there is no way to justify targeted attacks on civilians. Problem is no one is buying anymore. It's like when the Russian defense minister yesterday claimed the attack was actually Ukraine attacking their own citizens with no attempt to even pretend there is proof.    

Russia Denies Responsibility for Hospital Strike, Claims It Was ‘Staged Provocation’ – NBC New York

 

[Alavan]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

No I dont but then again I didnt start a war in the Ukraine. Czar Putin did. Even after he had given guarantees about Ukrainian safety. However I am not prepared to have Czar Putin killing thousands of innocent civilians every day in his failed war.

Its time he was stopped. Any attempt to launch the missiles will result in sane people within Russia removing this power crazed lunatic.

How often does he need to lie before you actually stop defending him?

I don’t defend him, on the contrary.

But as I said, luckily gouvernments in the West are more level headed than some people here on the forum

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

I don't know who poisoned him, ask the Bundeswehr.

Zelensky assured that he was promised

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/biden-says-it-remains-be-seen-if-ukraine-will-be-n1270807

It says here that in 2008 NATO adopted a declaration on Ukraine's accession to NATO. I don’t know, maybe it’s a lie, but Putin seems to have believed Zelensky

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2021/06/15/we-need-more-before-ukraine-can-join-nato-says-stoltenberg/

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation assures that this is a payroll in one of the biological laboratories in Ukraine, it indicates US government agencies, possibly a fake

So even your own links only show the possibility of the Ukraine joining NATO at some undetermined point in the future. And even if it did so what? Why does Czar Putin get to decide what happens in another country?

As for the blurry payslip? Who knows what that is supposed to be. 

[Stardust]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Very well put

I'm not sure the west has what it takes to call his bluff but we'll see. They'll have to do something eventually if, as you say, he doesn't stop at Ukraine. 

Personally I don't think he'll go further than Ukraine. Not because he's some strategic genius but because he knows his limits. I could be wrong of course but I hope not

I do believe if this moral outrage had of been directed when he took crimea then this wouldn't have happened but too late for that now

They will get them all and the weaponsystems from europe arrived. They will go after all them worldwide now. You know nothing about Nato/ Armies in Europe and no one is scared about this clowns army and their clown generals they showed anybody what kind of amateurs they are! Ask anybody of the Nato if you find one who worried about the russian army you find not one because they are aware of the russian clowns army. They can bombing civilians or threatening with chemical weapons same they did in Syria or Grosny etc because their army has no chance in any fighting. 

 

[Stardust]

7 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

I don't know who poisoned him, ask the Bundeswehr.

Zelensky assured that he was promised

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/biden-says-it-remains-be-seen-if-ukraine-will-be-n1270807

It says here that in 2008 NATO adopted a declaration on Ukraine's accession to NATO. I don’t know, maybe it’s a lie, but Putin seems to have believed Zelensky

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2021/06/15/we-need-more-before-ukraine-can-join-nato-says-stoltenberg/

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation assures that this is a payroll in one of the biological laboratories in Ukraine, it indicates US government agencies, possibly a fake

You can tell us soon how are the beaches in North Korea are or about the good weather in Novosibirsk . 

[KRLMRX]

8 hours ago, Fester said:

You really do come out with a lot of cods, Clouseau.

not everyone prefers only one rotten herring from the mass media

[Fester]

29 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

not everyone prefers only one rotten herring from the mass media

Not when you come up with a whole barrel of 'em! 

[Stardust]

14 hours ago, vlad said:

Wrong Alavan he will only get 1 chance unless he launches muliple war heads but he will realise Russia will be obliterated in a counter strike, thats why his generals will turn on him if he tells them to launch they know Russia will be flattened and everyone in it.

Exactly, the german bases are activated , submarines and B52 Bombers are in the air over 24 hours since over a week already to react on any wrong step from Russia and would wipe out whole Russia forever. The shields are activated. They forgot since the 80s they started a space force shield against nuclear threats from Russia, started in the 80s with the sdi but devloped others since. Some forget that Europe had to learn to handle Russian nuclear aggression since over 70 years.

[vlad]

15 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

fact 1 - the conversation has been going on since 2004, when the first pro-Western president Yushchenko came to power.

fact 2 - joining NATO. It was officially said that this would definitely happen (apparently, it was supposed to take Crimea from Russia for this).

fact 4 - Nuland said that there are biolaboratories, but does not recognize them as American, we are waiting for evidence and rebuttals.

https://youtu.be/tteiJcGnbQM

The same goes for Russia Comrade. If you found Evidence as you said in Ukraine produce it. What was it last week from Laverenko " We have evidence of Nuclear componants found in Ukraine. again a pack of lies. 

[Fester]

4 minutes ago, vlad said:

The same goes for Russia Comrade. If you found Evidence as you said in Ukraine produce it. What was it last week from Laverenko " We have evidence of Nuclear componants found in Ukraine. again a pack of lies. 

I think he meant to say unclear. 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, Stardust said:

They will get them all and the weaponsystems from europe arrived. They will go after all them worldwide now. You know nothing about Nato/ Armies in Europe and no one is scared about this clowns army and their clown generals they showed anybody what kind of amateurs they are! Ask anybody of the Nato if you find one who worried about the russian army you find not one because they are aware of the russian clowns army. They can bombing civilians or threatening with chemical weapons same they did in Syria or Grosny etc because their army has no chance in any fighting. 

So please tell me why NATO aren't engaging with the Russian forces directly?

Is it because they're worried Putin will use nuclear warheads?

You need to stop this you know nothing and I know it all better narrative because it's making you sound pathetic and childish. 

In my opinion as a German descendant you've got no right to even discuss war.

You didn't even know the British army only left Germany two years ago either and that's supposed to be your fatherland.