News Forum - The future of Covid vaccine ‘passports’ in access to services | VIDEO

[Freeduhdumb]

13 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Your 'freedom' puts others in jeopardy therefore by default your description above starting with 'foolish' is just about spot on! (But you missed out the word selfish)

Thoughtful and caring is a million miles from your stance - deluded would be closer.

My freedom puts you in jeopardy? You're going to claim you have a right to take my freedoms because your worried about yet another demonstrable flu virus? You're going to claim I'm delusional with that logic? Here is why you are wrong to demand this.

Freedom is risky, you got that part right. However... rational, lucid, responsible people can manage, have and do manage their own risk management. I fully understand this disease and it's wider associated risks, I do understand it, better than most. Your claim that I am a fool, has no merit. And with that, I am not asking, nor do I need you to manage my risk for me. You're free to go lock yourself up in your home, or wear a paper mask the rest of your life, or take hundreds of vaccine booster shots... you're free to protect yourself as you see fit, I only ask for reciprocal respect in return. That's not being delusional, that's a civil, reasonable, cooperatively thoughtful, respectful, honorable, rightful demand. And I will assert that right... 

[Mike]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

No it isn't.

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Edited September 5, 2021 by Faz
In breach of FG's.

[ThailandRyan]

12 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

My freedom puts you in jeopardy? You're going to claim you have a right to take my freedoms because your worried about yet another demonstrable flu virus? You're going to claim I'm delusional with that logic? Here is why you are wrong to demand this.

Freedom is risky, you got that part right. However... rational, lucid, responsible people can manage, have and do manage their own risk management. I fully understand this disease and it's wider associated risks, I do understand it, better than most. Your claim that I am a fool, has no merit. And with that, I am not asking, nor do I need you to manage my risk for me. You're free to go lock yourself up in your home, or wear a paper mask the rest of your life, or take hundreds of vaccine booster shots... you're free to protect yourself as you see fit, I only ask for reciprocal respect in return. That's not being delusional, that's a civil, reasonable, cooperatively thoughtful, respectful, honorable, rightful demand. And I will assert that right... 

You only see your view and not the wider picture.  Selfishness is what I see in your view, and you appear to be uncaring, even in your responses. No one wants to be locked up, people want to move around and do things, but at this point in time there are policies in place to limit the current cases from spreading.  Views like your are why this pandemic has not been overcome.  Will Covid be here for a long time, of course it will, just like the flu and every year new mutations and new vaccines will be made for those who wish to limit the chances of becoming very ill.  One day in the not so distant future things may return to a semblance of normal, but until then learn to live with what's been put in place for all people and for society.  As Rodney King said many years ago "Can't we all just get along".  Yes there should be a middle ground, but even then folks will say it is to strict and violates my freedoms.......good grief.

[Stonker]

32 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I fully understand this disease and it's wider associated risks, I do understand it, better than most.

Well, since that comes straight after you've described Covid-19 as "yet another demonstrable flu virus" when it isn't a "flu virus" but is a corona virus then you've amply confirmed that far from fully understanding it you know as little about it as one of my Basset Hounds.

Probably less.

 

Moderator note:

More than a little insulting, there, @Stonker. Please remember the wonderful Rule no. 6:

Be constructive. It’s okay to disagree with other posters; in fact, we encourage debate. Try to be interesting and stimulating – and provocative and controversial at times, where appropriate. Agree to disagree, maybe, at times but just try to steer towards a positive exchange; that is all the forum team asks of you.

Thank you in advance of your cooperation

King Cotton, Moderator

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by King Cotton
Friendly reminder of Rule 6

[Stonker]

57 minutes ago, Mike said:

Links without comment quoted already removed.

I'm sure that you genuinely believe that those links support the uninformed nonsense you've posted here, as that's what the nut-job who gave them to you probably told you.

Unfortunately for you, they don't.

... and FWIW just posting links without comment is not only uninformative but contrary to forum rules.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Faz
quoting removed content.

[Mike]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

... and FWIW just posting links without comment is not only uninformative but contrary to forum rules.

It’s only uniformative if you lack the capacity to understand what you’re reading.

 Good luck. Stay safe.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Mike
Typo

[BlueSphinx]

27 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No it isn't.

I won't be argumentative by calling you a liar, but your claim is completely untrue.

Again.

Oh boy, here we go again - much as I hate having to spend time to provide the easily available evidence that my claim was fully correct...

My claim was that @Mike's statement 'that increased numbers of vaccinations among a population increases the speed at which virus mutations occur.  This is even more true when the vaccinations are of differing types as the virus will have more varied catalysts causing the mutations.' ...

was endorsed by a.o. Nobel Prize winner Medicine for his work on the AIDS-virus prof dr Montagnier and by dr Robert Malone, credited for inventing the mRNA technology, as well as many other imminent scientists.

So do now take a look at two short interview clips, one featuring prof dr Montagnier and one with dr Robert Malone in which they CONFIRM what Mike was stating.  In both clips their confirmation of what Mike stated is at the very end. And that was all that I was 'claiming' and which you labelled as 'completely untrue'.

Not that I expect an apology from you...

[Stonker]

13 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Moderator note:

More than a little insulting, there, @Stonker. Please remember the wonderful Rule no. 6:

Be constructive. It’s okay to disagree with other posters; in fact, we encourage debate. Try to be interesting and stimulating – and provocative and controversial at times, where appropriate. Agree to disagree, maybe, at times but just try to steer towards a positive exchange; that is all the forum team asks of you.

Thank you in advance of your cooperation

King Cotton, Moderator

My humble apologies to my Basset Hounds - no insult to them was intended.

[AdamX]

21 hours ago, WilliamG said:

Will you say that when you cannot breathe from your hospital ventilator?

"Id rather die on my feet than live on my knees"

[AdamX]

34 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You only see your view and not the wider picture.  Selfishness is what I see in your view, and you appear to be uncaring, even in your responses. No one wants to be locked up, people want to move around and do things, but at this point in time there are policies in place to limit the current cases from spreading.  Views like your are why this pandemic has not been overcome.  Will Covid be here for a long time, of course it will, just like the flu and every year new mutations and new vaccines will be made for those who wish to limit the chances of becoming very ill.  One day in the not so distant future things may return to a semblance of normal, but until then learn to live with what's been put in place for all people and for society.  As Rodney King said many years ago "Can't we all just get along".  Yes there should be a middle ground, but even then folks will say it is to strict and violates my freedoms.......good grief.

if someone believes in lockdowns, they should lock themselves up.

This requires no input from others and is, according to the forever-lockdowners, effective anyway

Why are they annoying the rest of us?

[Stonker]

18 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

So do now take a look at two short interview clips, one featuring prof dr Montagnier and one with dr Robert Malone in which they CONFIRM what Mike was stating.  In both clips their confirmation of what Mike stated is at the very end. And that was all that I was 'claiming' and which you labelled as 'completely untrue'.

Not that I expect an apology from you...

No reason for any apology, since while that may be your interpretation of what they say, that isn't what they actually say which is very different, just as Dr Malone's ramblings are very different from what the WHO says despite his claims.

As usual, your interpretation and reality are two totally different things.

.

... and for what it's worth, Dr Malone is not "credited for inventing the mRNA technology" by anyone apart from himself and his fellow nut-jobs.

 

[Faz]

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[Thaired]

Creating fear in order to coerce a population into a pre-designed compliance, is not a new model of control. What alarms me most is the scale of fright and desperation people have digested and wish to impose on others. If the experimental vaccines are as good as those people have accepted, then they surely have no need to worry about those who choose to not take them, and therefore should not force THEIR choice onto others. Previous or existing travel cards for other inoculations were issued for fully tested and approved treatments, whereas this proposal for covid vaccine imposition is for a vaccine that is absolutely not fully tested. All this still being proposed in spite of international human rights laws drawn up after WW2 that banned people being forced, coerced or misled into being part of a medical experiment! 

[BlueSphinx]

28 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No reason for any apology, since while that may be your interpretation of what they say, that isn't what they actually say which is very different, just as Dr Malone's ramblings are very different from what the WHO says despite his claims.

As usual, your interpretation and reality are two totally different things.

... and for what it's worth, Dr Malone is not "credited for inventing the mRNA technology" by anyone apart from himself and his fellow nut-jobs.

Yep, they did not use the EXACT words from Mike's statement, but only a REAL nutter would after having looked at their video-statements, argue that what they actually say is very different. 

Seems you belong in that truth-twisting category.

 

Moderator note:

More than a little insulting, there, @BlueSphinx. Please remember to follow Rule no. 6:

Be constructive. It’s okay to disagree with other posters; in fact, we encourage debate. Try to be interesting and stimulating – and provocative and controversial at times, where appropriate. Agree to disagree, maybe, at times but just try to steer towards a positive exchange; that is all the forum team asks of you.

Rules 5, 7, 8 & 9 also help towards a happy and respectful discussion too.

Thank you in advance of your cooperation

King Cotton, Moderator

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by King Cotton
Friendly reminder of Rule 6

[Stonker]

48 minutes ago, Mike said:

It’s only uniformative if you lack the capacity to understand what you’re reading.

 Good luck. Stay safe.

Rather than swop insults, meaningless links, and posts about chickens and Basset Hounds, if you're so convinced  "that increased numbers of vaccinations among a population increases the speed at which virus mutations occur" then maybe you could explain why this hasn't happened with the most widely administered vaccines such as tetanus, polio and MMR over the past few decades?

... and why isn't that "even more true when the vaccinations are of different types as the virus will have more varied catalysts causing the mutations" as they're different types for tetanus ( DTaP and Tdap), polio (OPV and IPV) and MMR (MMR and MMRV)?

Let's leave out the links, insults and chickens and just stick to a simple, positive exchange as @King Cotton so wisely suggested, if you've got the "capacity" to explain the dichotomy between what you're claiming and the very obvious reality.

Let's keep it simple:

... where are all these mutations of tetanus, polio and MMR, which if you're correct should be running rampant across the globe, particularly in the most vaccinated countries?

[Stonker]

23 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Yep, they did not use the EXACT words from Mike's statement, but only a REAL nutter would after having looked at their video-statements, argue that what they actually say is very different.

Well, either a "REAL nutter" or someone with a rather less fertile imagination.

Feel free to join @Mike and "leave out the links, insults and chickens and just stick to a simple, positive exchange as @King Cotton so wisely suggested, if you've got the "capacity" to explain the dichotomy between what you're claiming and the very obvious reality.

Let's keep it simple:

... where are all these mutations of tetanus, polio and MMR, which if you're correct should be running rampant across the globe, particularly in the most vaccinated countries?"

Or not, as you prefer ...

 

[Stonker]

36 minutes ago, Thaired said:

All this still being proposed in spite of international human rights laws drawn up after WW2 that banned people being forced, coerced or misled into being part of a medical experiment! 

Really?

Are you sure they did?

It's really only of academic interest but since you bring it up,  Rule 92 of Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, which I'm reasonably familiar with and which I'm reasonably sure is what you're talking about, only applies during armed conflict and then only to prisoners of war or civilians in occupied countries.

Edit: if you're talking about something else, then do please elaborate.

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

...

Let's keep it simple:

... where are all these mutations of tetanus, polio and MMR, which if you're correct should be running rampant across the globe, particularly in the most vaccinated countries?"

Or not, as you prefer ...

First educate yourself before spouting nonsense.  The vaccines that you are mentioning are STERILIZING vaccines, but ALL the covid-vaccines are NOT sterilizing vaccines (and Pfizer/Moderna knew this damn well!).  The consequence being that their roll-out will INEVITABLY lead to immune-escape when applied for mass-vaccination.   See the link to a post addressing that all-important topic

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Faz
Image exceeding FG's removed.

[Stonker]

38 minutes ago, Thaired said:

If the experimental vaccines are as good as those people have accepted, then they surely have no need to worry about those who choose to not take them, and therefore should not force THEIR choice onto others.

I'm neither worrying about you nor forcing my choice on you - whether you take the vaccine or not is entirely your decision as far as I'm concerned.

All I'm worried about is how your decision affects me and others I'm concerned about, which I don't think is any more unreasonable than being worried about people driving on the  wrong side of the road - if you want to do so, fine, up to you, but just don't do it near me if it affects me.

What's so unreasonable about that?

[BlueSphinx]

14 minutes ago, Stonker said:

49 minutes ago, Thaired said:

All this still being proposed in spite of international human rights laws drawn up after WW2 that banned people being forced, coerced or misled into being part of a medical experiment! 

Really?

Are you sure they did?

It's really only of academic interest but since you bring it up,  Rule 92 of Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, which I'm reasonably familiar with and which I'm reasonably sure is what you're talking about, only applies during armed conflict and then only to prisoners of war or civilians in occupied countries.

Edit: if you're talking about something else, then do please elaborate.

@Thaired was as good as certain referring to the Nuremberg code.  I am pretty sure you knew that and are only trying to deflect again by referring to the Geneva Convention. 

The failure to provide the required written Informed Consent to individuals being given these Experimental Drug Vaccine (Biological Agents), make the injection of these Experimental Drug Vaccines (Biological Agents) by definition; a violation of

(1) The 1947 Nuremberg Code,

(2) The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) Treaty,

(3) The 1964 Declaration of Helsinki, and

(4) The American Medical Association (AMA) Code of Ethics.  

Thanks to @Ronaldus for his post outlining the above.

https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/3981-news-forum-covid-update-saturday-261-covid-related-deaths-news-briefs/?do=findComment&comment=40685

[Bob20]

18 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm neither worrying about you nor forcing my choice on you - whether you take the vaccine or not is entirely your decision as far as I'm concerned.

All I'm worried about is how your decision affects me and others I'm concerned about, which I don't think is any more unreasonable than being worried about people driving on the  wrong side of the road - if you want to do so, fine, up to you, but just don't do it near me if it affects me.

What's so unreasonable about that?

44 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Rather than swop insults, meaningless links, and posts about chickens and Basset Hounds, if you're so convinced  "that increased numbers of vaccinations among a population increases the speed at which virus mutations occur" then maybe you could explain why this hasn't happened with the most widely administered vaccines such as tetanus, polio and MMR over the past few decades?

... and why isn't that "even more true when the vaccinations are of different types as the virus will have more varied catalysts causing the mutations" as they're different types for tetanus ( DTaP and Tdap), polio (OPV and IPV) and MMR (MMR and MMRV)?

Let's leave out the links, insults and chickens and just stick to a simple, positive exchange as @King Cotton so wisely suggested, if you've got the "capacity" to explain the dichotomy between what you're claiming and the very obvious reality.

Let's keep it simple:

... where are all these mutations of tetanus, polio and MMR, which if you're correct should be running rampant across the globe, particularly in the most vaccinated countries?

 

38 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, either a "REAL nutter" or someone with a rather less fertile imagination.

Feel free to join @Mike and "leave out the links, insults and chickens and just stick to a simple, positive exchange as @King Cotton so wisely suggested, if you've got the "capacity" to explain the dichotomy between what you're claiming and the very obvious reality.

Let's keep it simple:

... where are all these mutations of tetanus, polio and MMR, which if you're correct should be running rampant across the globe, particularly in the most vaccinated countries?"

Or not, as you prefer ...

 

26 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Really?

Are you sure they did?

It's really only of academic interest but since you bring it up,  Rule 92 of Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, which I'm reasonably familiar with and which I'm reasonably sure is what you're talking about, only applies during armed conflict and then only to prisoners of war or civilians in occupied countries.

Edit: if you're talking about something else, then do please elaborate.

 

18 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm neither worrying about you nor forcing my choice on you - whether you take the vaccine or not is entirely your decision as far as I'm concerned.

All I'm worried about is how your decision affects me and others I'm concerned about, which I don't think is any more unreasonable than being worried about people driving on the  wrong side of the road - if you want to do so, fine, up to you, but just don't do it near me if it affects me.

What's so unreasonable about that?

@Stonker:

 

 

I think we have said enough times that everyone has freedom of choice and takes the consequences that come with that choice.

It doesn't matter that they have renamed themselves "pro-choicers" rather than the conspiracists that they really are. They are following a pattern to spread disinformation, and by continuing to argue, you just expand their platform.

Even as "pro-choicers" they will argue until the cows come home to spread their disinformation.

They are only "pro-choice" as long as you pick their choice!

 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

5 hours ago, Bubbleboy said:

. Haven't heard about a fourth shot yet. 

You better stay in that Bubble - Boy!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/

“Given that that the virus is here and will continue to be here, we also need to prepare for a fourth injection,” Salman Zarka told Kan public radio.

[Stonker]

1 minute ago, BlueSphinx said:

First educate yourself before spouting nonsense.  The vaccines that you are mentioning are STERILIZING vaccines, but ALL the covid-vaccines are NOT sterilizing vaccines

So ... no change, as expected. 

Maybe some more education on your part wouldn't go amiss - these aren't "STERILIZING vaccines", which would be chemical castration.

Presumably you mean vaccines that give what's called sterile immunity, which stops a pathogen replicating in your body.  DTaP, Tdap, OPV, IPV, MMR and MMRV don't give sterile immunity either - you can easily verify that for each vaccine, as you're wrong about them all.

OPV obviously doesn't give sterile immunity since it can even cause polio, very rarely, neither does IPV hence the need for occasional booster shots if going to some areas even after the initial four shots.

Neither tetanus vaccine gives full 100% immunity, neither claims to, and Dtap only gives 97% protection for Diptheria.

Neither the MMR nor the MMRV vaccines give sterile immunity, but again only 97% - for measles and mumps as well as rubella.

If you think that's wrong, just give a link to any of the vaccines, from any of the manufacturers or any recognised authority, that says they give 100% sterile immunity.

Exactly like the Covid vaccines, none give sterile immunity - it was a good try at your normal BS, bluffing, and smoke and mirrors but as usual it's just nonsense since what you claim is easily verifiable as completely wrong.

37 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

See the link to a post addressing that all-important topic

Well, since none of the vaccines you claim give sterile immunity do so, you're entire argument is based around a fallacy.

[BlueSphinx]

15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

So ... no change, as expected. 

Maybe some more education on your part wouldn't go amiss - these aren't "STERILIZING vaccines", which would be chemical castration.

Presumably you mean vaccines that give what's called sterile immunity, which stops a pathogen replicating in your body.  DTaP, Tdap, OPV, IPV, MMR and MMRV don't give sterile immunity either - you can easily verify that for each vaccine, as you're wrong about them all.

OPV obviously doesn't give sterile immunity since it can even cause polio, very rarely, neither does IPV hence the need for occasional booster shots if going to some areas even after the initial four shots.

Neither tetanus vaccine gives full 100% immunity, neither claims to, and Dtap only gives 97% protection for Diptheria.

Neither the MMR nor the MMRV vaccines give sterile immunity, but again only 97% - for measles and mumps as well as rubella.

If you think that's wrong, just give a link to any of the vaccines, from any of the manufacturers or any recognised authority, that says they give 100% sterile immunity.

Exactly like the Covid vaccines, none give sterile immunity - it was a good try at your normal BS, bluffing, and smoke and mirrors but as usual it's just nonsense since what you claim is easily verifiable as completely wrong.

Well, since none of the vaccines you claim give sterile immunity do so, you're entire argument is based around a fallacy.

May I remind you that it was you that mentioned the Tetanus vaccine as somehow relevant in a discusion about covid-19 vaccines.

We both now that a) it is not used as mass-vaccination during a pandemic, and b) even more important - Tetanus cannot be transmitted from person to person.

Let's leave it at that now that your continual deflection has been exposed...

[Guevara]

15 hours ago, Bob20 said:

China?

Frustrated, lonely, bitter, inadequate? Relying on the sound of your keyboard as your comfort zone ? Try a couple of Loperamide sublingually, they help in reducing verbal diarrhoea.

Some years ago I used to stay in an Hotel in Bangkok and watch the desperate old guys going out alone and returning with their 'catch of the night'. Sound familiar?

When you have spent the majority of you life in the National Health Service, you can start to lecture me. In the meantime, keep reading your DC and Marvel comics.