Do Covid 19 masks work?

[OneAngryJew]

7 minutes ago, Faraday said:

I always wash my meat 'n' veg, never seen any pesticides on 'em. No crabs neither.

Comb your crabs, wash everything else.

[Faraday]

Just now, OneAngryJew said:

Comb your crabs, wash everything else.

Clean shaven.

[longwood50]

3 hours ago, ChristyS said:

  Secondly  we don't know if the picture really is from the Wuhan lab

Well the New York Times reports that it is.  

One way or another, the workers at the hospitals, and virology labs are not just wearing the cheap face masks that the public is wearing.  You can refute all your want about the oxygen molecules being smaller than the virus and they attach to particulate. 

The fact remains that if face masks offered adequate protection against the Covid virus you would see virology workers outfitted with only face masks.  You would see those taking covid swabs wearing only face masks.  

That to me shows while you may believe it.  They dont and neither do I


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/world/asia/china-covid-wuhan-lab-leak.html

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Oh dear, oh dear? Nothing to do with "relentless pro-mask propaganda" - I listen to medical professionals who have oodles of common sense.

Your so-called facts and observations:

#1 - Before the covid-19 hysteria mask-wearing in Thailand was done to avoid traffic and seasonal burning pollution. This is a THAI forum.

#2 - It certainly is hard to believe you are right.

#3 - Masks stop the spread large loads of the virus on droplets, as I said in my previous post. 

#4 - The 'science' shows that mask-wearing has a significant effect on containing the virus. Of course people need to use clean masks. 

#5 - I have never U-turned. Fauci is a loon. 

#6 - Penalties for non-compliance are nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks. You are wandering.

#7 - The amount of studies that compellingly provide evidence that mask-wearing is a useless and even harmful ritual is growing exponently. Really? Do share at least one.

Please do challenge me with scientific studies that disprove anything of what I stated higher. Why don't you link to stuff that proves your points? Rants don't count.

I wrote > #7 - The amount of studies that compellingly provide evidence that mask-wearing is a useless and even harmful ritual is growing exponently. 

You replied > Really? Do share at least one.

>> So here we go - an 18 page study titled Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 2: Microbial challenges from masks by Boris Borovoy, Colleen Huber, Maria Crisler < see attached >

The study has 62 (!) references to articles/studies, underpinning their research approach and conclusions. 

An excerpt : ‘Masks have been shown through overwhelming clinical evidence to have no effect against transmission of viral pathogens. Penetration of cloth masks by viral particles was almost 97% and of surgical masks was 44%. Even bacteria, approximately ten times the volume of coronaviruses, have
been poorly impeded by both cloth masks and disposable surgical masks. After 150 minutes of use, more bacteria were emitted through the disposable mask than from the same subject unmasked.'

The study shows that masks have no significant preventative impact against any known pathogenic microbes, and the authors conclude, ‘Specifically, regarding covid-19, we have shown…that mask use is not correlated with lower death rates nor with lower positive PCR tests.’  The authors add that, ‘Masks have also been demonstrated historically to contribute to increased infections within the respiratory tract’ and they conclude that ‘the use of face masks will contribute to far more morbidity and mortality than has occurred due to covid-19.’

Masks-false-safety-and-real-dangers-Part-2-Microbial-challenges-from-masks.pdf

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

3 hours ago, ChristyS said:

More disinfo. The Delta particle simply latches  on  more easily once upon a cell,  it does not fly through the  air better- it's not Delta the airline.

Yes, it does fly. Half the diameter size of secondhand smoke particles. And even that smoke goes everywhere.

[Fester]

4 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

I wrote > #7 - The amount of studies that compellingly provide evidence that mask-wearing is a useless and even harmful ritual is growing exponently. 

You replied > Really? Do share at least one.

>> So here we go - an 18 page study titled Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 2: Microbial challenges from masks by Boris Borovoy, Colleen Huber, Maria Crisler < see attached >

The study has 62 (!) references to articles/studies, underpinning their research approach and conclusions. 

An excerpt : ‘Masks have been shown through overwhelming clinical evidence to have no effect against transmission of viral pathogens. Penetration of cloth masks by viral particles was almost 97% and of surgical masks was 44%. Even bacteria, approximately ten times the volume of coronaviruses, have
been poorly impeded by both cloth masks and disposable surgical masks. After 150 minutes of use, more bacteria were emitted through the disposable mask than from the same subject unmasked.'

The study shows that masks have no significant preventative impact against any known pathogenic microbes, and the authors conclude, ‘Specifically, regarding covid-19, we have shown…that mask use is not correlated with lower death rates nor with lower positive PCR tests.’  The authors add that, ‘Masks have also been demonstrated historically to contribute to increased infections within the respiratory tract’ and they conclude that ‘the use of face masks will contribute to far more morbidity and mortality than has occurred due to covid-19.’

Masks-false-safety-and-real-dangers-Part-2-Microbial-challenges-from-masks.pdf 1.08 MB · 0 downloads

A really poor paper by a clique of naturopathic anti-vaxer, anti-masker nutbags. No real study data or evidence plus there is more in there about bacteria than viruses. Not accepted by major medical journals. 

They really blew it by saying, quote: COVID-19 is a remarkably low transmissibility disease.

Keep your paper, better still leave it in the dunny.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Fester

[Fester]

6 hours ago, Fester said:

 

 

 

5 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Well the New York Times reports that it is.  

One way or another, the workers at the hospitals, and virology labs are not just wearing the cheap face masks that the public is wearing.  You can refute all your want about the oxygen molecules being smaller than the virus and they attach to particulate. 

The fact remains that if face masks offered adequate protection against the Covid virus you would see virology workers outfitted with only face masks.  You would see those taking covid swabs wearing only face masks.  

That to me shows while you may believe it.  They dont and neither do I


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/world/asia/china-covid-wuhan-lab-leak.html

Looks like Madam Bat sure enough.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Fester

[THETRUTH]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:51 AM, thai3 said:

They are not useless, at the very least they stop you touching your mouth and nose with dirty fingers

Lol at this statement. Touching the mask with your dirty fingers and then having that dirty piece of cloth wrapped on your face is probably much more harmful. Humidity from your face and breath will also let the bacteria and viruses grow wild.

Edited August 8, 2021 by THETRUTH

[SomTum]

5 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

An excerpt : ‘Masks have been shown through overwhelming clinical evidence to have no effect against transmission of viral pathogens. Penetration of cloth masks by viral particles was almost 97% and of surgical masks was 44%. Even bacteria, approximately ten times the volume of coronaviruses, have been poorly impeded by both cloth masks and disposable surgical masks. After 150 minutes of use, more bacteria were emitted through the disposable mask than from the same subject unmasked.'

Obviously inexpensive comfortable masks are not as effective as N95 respirators. Public health measures involve multiple partial solutions. 56% percent inhibition with surgical masks seems better than nothing.

[SomTum]

7 hours ago, OneAngryJew said:

I have read that people with delta shed 1000x more than Alpha.

I think you are referring to a paper from China where they contact traced an outbreak in Guangzhou.

Could I say "Yes, but"?

Yes, the authors of this preprint say that Delta-infected individuals turned PCR positive on day 4 with Ct values that implied a 1260x higher viral load on that day, compared with their March 2020 (ancestral strain) data where the PCR turned positive on day 6 with a higher Ct value.

But I think we should keep in mind that Ct refers to the number of amplifications required to detect matching RNA fragments, and does not directly tell you the difference in magnitude for infectious virus between two samples. There is more with Delta on day 4 than there was ancestral strain on Day 6, and apparently the higher level persists longer than the ancestral strain, but 1200x is a ballpark estimate.

Quote

We next evaluated viral load measurements at the time when SARS-CoV-2 was first detected by PCR in each subject. The relative viral loads of cases infected with the Delta variant (n=62, Ct =24.00 for the ORF1ab gene, IQR 19.00∼29.00) were 1260 times higher than those for the 2020 infections with clade 19A/19B viruses (n=63, Ct = 34.31 for ORF1ab gene, IQR 31.00∼36.00) on the day when viruses were first detected (Figure 1d). We hypothesized a higher within-host growth rate of the Delta variant, which led to the higher observed viral loads once viral nucleotides exceeded the PCR detection threshold (Figure 1e). Similar to results reported by Roman et.al., we found that samples with Ct > 30 (<6×10⁵ copies/mL viruses) did not yield an infectious isolate in-vitro. For the Delta variant infections, 80.65% of samples contained >6×10⁵ copies/mL in oropharyngeal swabs when the viruses were first detected, compared to 19.05% of samples from clade 19A/19B infections. These data indicate that the Delta variant could be more infectious during the early stage of the infection (Figure 1e).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.07.21260122v2

A preprint from Singapore reported that Ct values were lower (i.e., more RNA was found) for Delta than the ancestral strain AND that Ct values stayed low for 5 days longer, which implies the patient could spread the virus to others for a longer period of time.

Quote

There were 838 VOC infections in Singapore in the study period. After adjusting for age and gender, B.1.617.2 infection was associated with higher odds of oxygen requirement, ICU admission, or death (adjusted odds ratio (aOR) 4·90, [95% CI 1·43-30·78]. 157 patients with VOCs were admitted to our centre. After adjusting for age, gender, comorbidities, and vaccination, aOR for pneumonia with B.1.617.2 was 1·88 [95% CI 0·95-3·76]) compared with wild-type. B.1.617.2 was associated with significantly lower PCR Ct values and significantly longer duration of Ct value ≤30 (estimated median duration 18 days for B.1.617.2, 13 days for wild-type). Vaccine breakthrough cases were less severe.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3861566

 

[Benroon]

Does it matter ??

Grow up - if someone asks you to wear a mask, misguided or not, if only to reassure everyone else, then bloody wear it ! 

[Fester]

1 hour ago, THETRUTH said:

Lol at this statement. Touching the mask with your dirty fingers and then having that dirty piece of cloth wrapped on your face is probably much more harmful. Humidity from your face and breath will also let the bacteria and viruses grow wild.

Speak for yourself. So dirty.  

[BlueSphinx]

 

  18 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

I wrote > #7 - The amount of studies that compellingly provide evidence that mask-wearing is a useless and even harmful ritual is growing exponently. 

You replied > Really? Do share at least one.

>> So here we go - an 18 page study titled Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 2: Microbial challenges from masks by Boris Borovoy, Colleen Huber, Maria Crisler < see attached >

The study has 62 (!) references to articles/studies, underpinning their research approach and conclusions. 

Masks-false-safety-and-real-dangers-Part-2-Microbial-challenges-fro

 

14 hours ago, Fester said:

A really poor paper by a clique of naturopathic anti-vaxer, anti-masker nutbags. No real study data or evidence plus there is more in there about bacteria than viruses. Not accepted by major medical journals. 

They really blew it by saying, quote: COVID-19 is a remarkably low transmissibility disease.

Keep your paper, better still leave it in the dunny.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  You should have said that you only accept peer-reviewed studies published in mainstream journals/sites as evidence.  But lucky for you I do have such a study < see attached >. 

It's the multi-million dollar study sponsored by the CDC and published on their website > Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing On-Premises Restaurant Dining with County-Level COVID-19 Case and Death Growth Rates — United States, March 1–December 31, 2020 also known as the Mask and Dining study. 

The CDC did try to spin the results of that study as 'definitive proof' that mask-mandates and mandatory closing of restaurants had a positive effect on covid-19 case and death growth rates.  Considering that claim you would expect when actually reading the study, to see an impact of at least 50%, or let's be generous 20% or even super-generous 10%.  But the figures show an impact between 1.1 and 3 % and that in the highest of the 9 before/after time categories they broke up the results. 

The small restaurant business-owners that had their life's work destroyed by those mask-mandate and mandatory closing orders to curb the case/death spread in their state, were certainly very glad to learn that their sacrifice had such an enormous impact...  And it will have been especially sour for those that had their business destroyed in the state of North Dakota, while in the neighboring state of South Dakota with NO mask-mandates nor mandatory business closures, the covid-19 case and death rates are non-distinguishable from the North Dakota ones.

 

CCD study - Mask and Dining Report.pdf

[Fester]

5 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

I wrote > #7 - The amount of studies that compellingly provide evidence that mask-wearing is a useless and even harmful ritual is growing exponently. 

You replied > Really? Do share at least one.

>> So here we go - an 18 page study titled Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 2: Microbial challenges from masks by Boris Borovoy, Colleen Huber, Maria Crisler < see attached >

The study has 62 (!) references to articles/studies, underpinning their research approach and conclusions. 

Masks-false-safety-and-real-dangers-Part-2-Microbial-challenges-fro

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  You should have said that you only accept peer-reviewed studies published in mainstream journals/sites as evidence.  But lucky for you I do have such a study < see attached >. 

It's the multi-million dollar study sponsored by the CDC and published on their website > Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing On-Premises Restaurant Dining with County-Level COVID-19 Case and Death Growth Rates — United States, March 1–December 31, 2020 also known as the Mask and Dining study. 

The CDC did try to spin the results of that study as 'definitive proof' that mask-mandates and mandatory closing of restaurants had a positive effect on covid-19 case and death growth rates.  Considering that claim you would expect when actually reading the study, to see an impact of at least 50%, or let's be generous 20% or even super-generous 10%.  But the figures show an impact between 1.1 and 3 % and that in the highest of the 9 before/after time categories they broke up the results. 

The small restaurant business-owners that had their life's work destroyed by those mask-mandate and mandatory closing orders to curb the case/death spread in their state, were certainly very glad to learn that their sacrifice had such an enormous impact...  And it will have been especially sour for those that had their business destroyed in the state of North Dakota, while in the neighboring state of South Dakota with NO mask-mandates nor mandatory business closures, the covid-19 case and death rates are non-distinguishable from the North Dakota ones.

CCD study - Mask and Dining Report.pdf 225.16 kB · 0 downloads

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye

= = =

Follows is the study summary verbatim:

Summary
What is already known about this topic?
Universal masking and avoiding nonessential indoor spaces are
recommended to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

What is added by this report?
Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily
COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of
implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was
associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates
41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily
death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

What are the implications for public health practice?
Mask mandates and restricting any on-premises dining at
restaurants can help limit community transmission of COVID-19
and reduce case and death growth rates. These findings can
inform public policies to reduce community spread of COVID-19.

 

= = =

Although this discussion is not generally about dining - thanks for proving my point. If you want people to read your attachments then I suggest that you simply include the link, then we can all decide whether or not we need to risk more viruses. You might also give them a better, fuller readyourself.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Fester

[BlueSphinx]

16 minutes ago, Fester said:

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye

= = =

Follows is the study summary verbatim:

Summary
What is already known about this topic?
Universal masking and avoiding nonessential indoor spaces are
recommended to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

What is added by this report?
Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily
COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of
implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was
associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates
41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily
death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

What are the implications for public health practice?
Mask mandates and restricting any on-premises dining at
restaurants can help limit community transmission of COVID-19
and reduce case and death growth rates. These findings can
inform public policies to reduce community spread of COVID-19.

= = =

Although this discussion is not generally about dining - thanks for proving my point. If you want people to read your attachments then I suggest that you simply include the link, then we can all decide whether or not we need to risk more viruses. You might also give them a better, fuller readyourself.

As you seem to have problems reading/understanding I simply re-post below again > but now just look at the FIGURES which they published, and not the "spin" they gave to those figures in the hope that the 'lazy ones' would not look at the actual data but believe their summary conclusions.

= = = = =

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  You should have said that you only accept peer-reviewed studies published in mainstream journals/sites as evidence.  But lucky for you I do have such a study < see attached >. 

It's the multi-million dollar study sponsored by the CDC and published on their website > Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing On-Premises Restaurant Dining with County-Level COVID-19 Case and Death Growth Rates — United States, March 1–December 31, 2020 also known as the Mask and Dining study. 

The CDC did try to spin the results of that study as 'definitive proof' that mask-mandates and mandatory closing of restaurants had a positive effect on covid-19 case and death growth rates.  Considering that claim you would expect when actually reading the study, to see an impact of at least 50%, or let's be generous 20% or even super-generous 10%.  But the figures show an impact between 1.1 and 3 % and that in the highest of the 9 before/after time categories they broke up the results. 

The small restaurant business-owners that had their life's work destroyed by those mask-mandate and mandatory closing orders to curb the case/death spread in their state, were certainly very glad to learn that their sacrifice had such an enormous impact...  And it will have been especially sour for those that had their business destroyed in the state of North Dakota, while in the neighboring state of South Dakota with NO mask-mandates nor mandatory business closures, the covid-19 case and death rates are non-distinguishable from the North Dakota ones.

 

CCD study - Mask and Dining Report.pdf

[Fester]

On 8/8/2021 at 1:26 PM, OneAngryJew said:

The original and real picture did not heave her wearing a mask.

Mask or not - it's still some creepy stuff.

[WaccineChinawatiiRaporn]

"Well Thailand has officially reached a 1 million percent increase since masking was credited with preventing cases. 1,020,050% to be exact. You’d think 1 million percent would end the “it would have been worse without masks” nonsense, but for the true believers it can never end."

Edited August 11, 2021 by WaccineChinawatiiRaporn
correction

[WaccineChinawatiiRaporn]

[OneAngryJew]

2 minutes ago, WaccineChinawatiiRaporn said:

1 million percent?  Bollocks. The masks most people are using are totally ineffective.  Considering how the virus is going through Thailand like diarrhea through Mexico proves that the masks aren't hindering the virus at all.  Everyone at the very least needs a properly fitted N95 mask.

[WaccineChinawatiiRaporn]

Anyway these graphs are interesting if anyone wants to take the time to look at them or double check the data....

https://twitter.com/ianmSC

 

[longwood50]

Well there are those who would disagree with me, however the following two pictures show what what virologists studying the virus, and medical personnel think they require in order to be protected.  Are they more at risk?  Perhaps but that doesn't change the point that if masks were truly effective that you would not see virologists or medical personnel wearing complete body suits with separate oxygen supply and medical personnel in full personal protection gear.   The first  is in Bangkok where people are being tested for Covid. The second picture is the Wuhan lab. I think substantially more than the 3 baht mask purchased at the 7/11.

[Ubon2530]

 

Do Covid 19 masks work?

We have covid 19 masks? I wasn't aware. I've heard of face masks though.

What do they do, give you covid or protect you from it?

 

[Fester]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:03 PM, OneAngryJew said:

I challenge how you know what they are thinking. The short answer is you don't. I wear an N 100 respirator. Do you think I'm protecting you? I am not. I'm protecting myself.

My mask has an exhalation valve. If you're stupid enough to stand next to me, you're getting my exhale which is unknown filtered. On the other hand when I breathe in my mask pulls to my face, because it has a silicon seal. I have a 100% seal so everything I breathe in goes through my mask.

Now I'm more than ready for you to come back and tell me that wearing a surgical mask protects me if someone else is wearing the mask.

Nonsense nonsense nonsense nonsense nonsense

When they exhale, it goes out the path of least resistance. That means since their mask is not sealed, and they have no silicone seal like I do, their exhale goes everywhere as well. No one is protecting anyone. If I want to I can now buy plugs so that my exhale goes out through the mask, specifically the filter.

You are as wrong as you can be.

He's not and he can read minds too.

[Fester]

On 8/11/2021 at 4:33 PM, longwood50 said:

Well there are those who would disagree with me, however the following two pictures show what what virologists studying the virus, and medical personnel think they require in order to be protected.  Are they more at risk?  Perhaps but that doesn't change the point that if masks were truly effective that you would not see virologists or medical personnel wearing complete body suits with separate oxygen supply and medical personnel in full personal protection gear.   The first  is in Bangkok where people are being tested for Covid. The second picture is the Wuhan lab. I think substantially more than the 3 baht mask purchased at the 7/11.

No sheet Cisco! They are continuously exposed to whatver virulent evil they are working on/with. Hopefully most of the rest of us are not!

[BlueSphinx]

15 hours ago, Transam said:

I wore a proper mask for years at work sunbeam, pull your neck in...

Viral video clip of the month - the Science of the Lambs with Fauci the Psycho