News Forum - Thailand anticipates American tourism influx due to Songkran

[EdwardV]

20 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Visitors participating in prostitution while on business or military does not make it "tourism " and that has what @cowslip has been saying all along

I didn’t get that from what he has written, I got the opposite impression. However I’m more than willing to be corrected on that. 

Did America set create sex tourism in Thailand? I guess you first have to ask are US servicemen on R&R actually tourists? Servicemen of that era had little choice in where they spent R&R. Did an ex-US serviceman setting up a bar in Soi cowboy represent America or just an enterprising man who just happened to be an American? Was it actually America setting up sex tourism or in fact enterprising Thai ladies who figured out this is a good way to make a lot of money. What happened after all the GIs when home? Usually when a fledgling business loses all its costumers, someone else moves in or it dies. Did those enterprising Americans market the industry to Europeans and Asians to take over? If I remember my history, Pattaya didn’t become a sex tourist location until some time after the end of the war.

Chicken and the egg. 

[Marc26]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I didn’t get that from what he has written, I got the opposite impression. However I’m more than willing to be corrected on that. 

Did America set create sex tourism in Thailand? I guess you first have to ask are US servicemen on R&R actually tourists? Servicemen of that era had little choice in where they spent R&R. Did an ex-US serviceman setting up a bar in Soi cowboy represent America or just an enterprising man who just happened to be an American? Was it actually America setting up sex tourism or in fact enterprising Thai ladies who figured out this is a good way to make a lot of money. What happened after all the GIs when home? Usually when a fledgling business loses all its costumers, someone else moves in or it dies. Did those enterprising Americans market the industry to Europeans and Asians to take over? If I remember my history, Pattaya didn’t become a sex tourist location until some time after the end of the war.

Chicken and the egg. 

Yeah and his point is that so much of it sprung up from the American's R&R

 

There is no modern sex tourist industry without Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza and Patpong and Pattaya, at least as we know it and all those places brought it the regular sex tourist boom(not military)

All of them are a direct result of the American GI R&R

 

 

No one can seem to point out that it existed in that fashion before the Vietnam War except to point out that prostitution always existed

 

So on one side, you have clear documented evidence of when and why

 

On the other side you just have people saying prostitution existed and being hung up on semantics

 

 

[MrStretch]

I think the point being missed, by a wide margin, here is that while American servicemen might have been the customers that helped create the demand for the modern industry in question, they didn't create that industry.

It was created for them by the Thais themselves.  Even today, go to Soi Cowboy, Nana, Patong or Pattaya and the vast majority of the businesses that cater to this industry are owned, operated and staffed by Thais and it's Thais that deposit that money in their bank accounts.

Thais just took a facet of their culture that was already present and super sized it.  And still do.

[PhuketBloke]

1 hour ago, MrStretch said:

I think the point being missed, by a wide margin, here is that while American servicemen might have been the customers that helped create the demand for the modern industry in question, they didn't create that industry.

It was created for them by the Thais themselves.  Even today, go to Soi Cowboy, Nana, Patong or Pattaya and the vast majority of the businesses that cater to this industry are owned, operated and staffed by Thais and it's Thais that deposit that money in their bank accounts.

Thais just took a facet of their culture that was already present and super sized it.  And still do.

Thank goodness someone agrees. 

[TedG]

Back to the topic of Songkran.  I'm flying on April 9th.   My hardest decision is which camera(s) to bring. 

[MrStretch]

2 hours ago, TedG said:

Back to the topic of Songkran.  I'm flying on April 9th.   My hardest decision is which camera(s) to bring. 

The waterproof one.

[PhuketBloke]

7 hours ago, TedG said:

Back to the topic of Songkran.  I'm flying on April 9th.   My hardest decision is which camera(s) to bring. 

Have a good time.

We will play it the cowards way again this year in Phuket.

We will be part of the twenty mile long parade of cars driving along with the windows closed through the streets lined with people throwing water at us and the rest of the crowd. 

Kathu, Patong, Karon, Kata, Rawai beaches in a thirty mile circuit, still great fun though.

I have done my days of standing in the back of a pickup truck with six other people with barrels of water and a super powered water gun.

I am glad the Americans also invented Songkran. 

Edited March 25 by PhuketBloke
typo

[ChicagoExpat]

Just today on Thaiger I've seen America blamed for:  ISIS, AL-Qaeda, 9/11, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and now prostitution in Thailand.  It's incredible what a simplified view of the world one can have, especially if one has a predisposition to dislike some people and also disdains nuance, facts, etc.

But I guess we're all guilty of some version of that.

[Poolie]

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Just today on Thaiger I've seen America blamed for:  ISIS, AL-Qaeda, 9/11, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and now prostitution in Thailand.  It's incredible what a simplified view of the world one can have, especially if one has a predisposition to dislike some people and also disdains nuance, facts, etc.

But I guess we're all guilty of some version of that.

Read the NED website. For National read American.

[23RD]

4 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Just today on Thaiger I've seen America blamed for:  ISIS, AL-Qaeda, 9/11, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and now prostitution in Thailand.  It's incredible what a simplified view of the world one can have, especially if one has a predisposition to dislike some people and also disdains nuance, facts, etc.

But I guess we're all guilty of some version of that.

C'mon Man we only blame half of America (The Democrat Half) .

I personally like every Republican in the US if its any consolation every Country has its useful idiots. 

[Marc26]

12 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Just today on Thaiger I've seen America blamed for:  ISIS, AL-Qaeda, 9/11, Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and now prostitution in Thailand.  It's incredible what a simplified view of the world one can have, especially if one has a predisposition to dislike some people and also disdains nuance, facts, etc.

But I guess we're all guilty of some version of that.

Who really cares as long as people are treating you nice, is my attitude 

 

When I 1st went to Thailand I was a pretty naive 30yr old American 

 

I didn't think everyone loved us but I didn't realize so many people did have strong opinions on America and Americans 

 

I met a lot of people on my initial trips and a lot would comment about America or Americans

Usually in a joking manner but to let their feelings known

 

I would just brush it off and be me, let them judge my actions.....

To be honest, it did me a favor to open my eyes a bit so I was never offended....

 

^By the way, that was fellow travelers and expats

The Thais seemed to always be happy when I said I was American 

[MrStretch]

6 hours ago, Marc26 said:

The Thais seemed to always be happy when I said I was American 

One day, recently, I had mentioned to my wife about how many cultural references I had seen to the USA on that one particular day; fashion, language, logos, etc.

"Oh, Thais are mad for anything American," was her reply.

But back to Songkran.  Like many, I'll do it (if I do) from inside a car with the windows rolled up for one stroll down a celebratory street in our part of Hat Yai.

For us, long gone are the days of pick up trucks, barrels of water and katoeys with skimpy clothes and big squirt guns.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, MrStretch said:

One day, recently, I had mentioned to my wife about how many cultural references I had seen to the USA on that one particular day; fashion, language, logos, etc.

"Oh, Thais are mad for anything American," was her reply.

But back to Songkran.  Like many, I'll do it (if I do) from inside a car with the windows rolled up for one stroll down a celebratory street in our part of Hat Yai.

For us, long gone are the days of pick up trucks, barrels of water and katoeys with skimpy clothes and big squirt guns.

I don't really go back for Songkran anymore 

But if I did, I would happily have a day out "playing water "

[PhuketBloke]

15 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Who really cares as long as people are treating you nice, is my attitude 

When I 1st went to Thailand I was a pretty naive 30yr old American 

I didn't think everyone loved us but I didn't realize so many people did have strong opinions on America and Americans 

I met a lot of people on my initial trips and a lot would comment about America or Americans

Usually in a joking manner but to let their feelings known

I would just brush it off and be me, let them judge my actions.....

To be honest, it did me a favor to open my eyes a bit so I was never offended....

^By the way, that was fellow travelers and expats

The Thais seemed to always be happy when I said I was American 

I find it to be the other way around on many occasions, many (not all)  Americans do feel superior, they expect the rest of the world to be talking about them and saying how great they are. 

I for one do not spend all day wondering what the Americans are up to and I am sure the rest of the world do not either.

I was working in Sweden many years ago, I was having a beer at a bar in Stockholm when three American tourists walked in.

They ordered a beer each and then tried to pay in dollars, they were flabbergasted when they were not accepted, one said, "Yall not take dollars here, why not", with a slight anger in her voice.

The barkeep simply said, "Because you are in Sweden, do you accept Krona in the USA".

When I worked in the USA a few times I was told many times how the Americans saved the UK and the rest of Europe from the Germans in WW2, when I said it was the Russians who saved us they immediately thought I was a communist. 

I do tell them though it was the Americans who won WW2 in Asia.

"The Thais seemed to always be happy when I said I was American", yep, they tell me they love England when I say I am English, it usually happens when they are trying to sell me something.   

But thanks for inventing beer as I will have a few this evening. 

[PhuketBloke]

10 hours ago, MrStretch said:

One day, recently, I had mentioned to my wife about how many cultural references I had seen to the USA on that one particular day; fashion, language, logos, etc.

"Oh, Thais are mad for anything American," was her reply.

But back to Songkran.  Like many, I'll do it (if I do) from inside a car with the windows rolled up for one stroll down a celebratory street in our part of Hat Yai.

For us, long gone are the days of pick up trucks, barrels of water and katoeys with skimpy clothes and big squirt guns.

You said, "........ language, ......"

Oh no, the Americans are claiming to have invented the English language now. 

But I agree with you about the Songkran in a car, that is what we do.

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

I find it to be the other way around on many occasions, many (not all)  Americans do feel superior, they expect the rest of the world to be talking about them and saying how great they are. 

I for one do not spend all day wondering what the Americans are up to and I am sure the rest of the world do not either.

I was working in Sweden many years ago, I was having a beer at a bar in Stockholm when three American tourists walked in.

They ordered a beer each and then tried to pay in dollars, they were flabbergasted when they were not accepted, one said, "Yall not take dollars here, why not", with a slight anger in her voice.

The barkeep simply said, "Because you are in Sweden, do you accept Krona in the USA".

When I worked in the USA a few times I was told many times how the Americans saved the UK and the rest of Europe from the Germans in WW2, when I said it was the Russians who saved us they immediately thought I was a communist. 

I do tell them though it was the Americans who won WW2 in Asia.

"The Thais seemed to always be happy when I said I was American", yep, they tell me they love England when I say I am English, it usually happens when they are trying to sell me something.   

But thanks for inventing beer as I will have a few this evening. 

As I said above

 

I don't really worry about what anyone thinks of Americans 

Some of it is valid, some is not

 

I can't control that

I just worry about how I act and behave

 

I think most of us have our preconceived notions about other nationalities 

I surely do.....

Sometimes those notions/bias are correct, sometimes they aren't 

 

I just take everyone on as an individual 

[MrStretch]

13 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

You said, "........ language, ......"

Oh no, the Americans are claiming to have invented the English language now. 

But I agree with you about the Songkran in a car, that is what we do.

Nothing of the sort.  I was referring to English written on clothing, etc.

Pre-pandemic, I was waiting in the car for my wife to quickly pick up something at the market near the major wat in our neighborhood.  I saw a young lass, about 13 or so, with a shirt that said "I swallow" and some artwork that made it clear what she swallowed, without being so obvious even her mother would know what it was, and thought "she doesn't know what her shirt says".  I mentioned it to my wife on return and she tried to find the girl to let her know but alas, she'd already gone.

It reminded me of a bunch of "wanker" t-shirts, that were for some punk band's concert, that were quite common in our city a few years ago, obviously dumped because they weren't as popular as hoped back in Blighty.  The misspellings and total nonsense words or expressions aren't because the Thais love that.  It's English letters and words, and they think that's cool to wear.

I'm a retired journalist and English teacher.  I know where the language came from.

[Vigo]

I avoid Songkran. I will be out of Thailand. I notice that when I get to the airport  that I am not alone.Many hi sois start the exodus early to get the best airfares and flights. TG , NH, JL and SQ flights  to Japan and Singapore sell out fast.

[Khunmark]

4 hours ago, Vigo said:

I avoid Songkran. I will be out of Thailand. I notice that when I get to the airport  that I am not alone.Many hi sois start the exodus early to get the best airfares and flights. TG , NH, JL and SQ flights  to Japan and Singapore sell out fast.

I have a solution for the mass exodus that occurs this time of year. Move Songkran up into the mountains where the bushfires are blazing. Everybody wins.

[PhuketBloke]

8 hours ago, MrStretch said:

Nothing of the sort.  I was referring to English written on clothing, etc.

Pre-pandemic, I was waiting in the car for my wife to quickly pick up something at the market near the major wat in our neighborhood.  I saw a young lass, about 13 or so, with a shirt that said "I swallow" and some artwork that made it clear what she swallowed, without being so obvious even her mother would know what it was, and thought "she doesn't know what her shirt says".  I mentioned it to my wife on return and she tried to find the girl to let her know but alas, she'd already gone.

It reminded me of a bunch of "wanker" t-shirts, that were for some punk band's concert, that were quite common in our city a few years ago, obviously dumped because they weren't as popular as hoped back in Blighty.  The misspellings and total nonsense words or expressions aren't because the Thais love that.  It's English letters and words, and they think that's cool to wear.

I'm a retired journalist and English teacher.  I know where the language came from.

 

I can only reply to what you wrote and that was. "One day, recently, I had mentioned to my wife about how many cultural references I had seen to the USA on that one particular day; fashion, language, logos, etc."

Hence my earlier reply re English. 

I too have seen some Thais wearing T-shirts where they do not know what the message means.

As a software engineer, we had a common expression we used now and then, "Those who can write software do, those who can't become teachers". (By default that excludes university lecturers).

I see in many countries around the world the use of English in advertising and on T-shirts etc as it seems to say they have some sort of education and world presence. 

 

[PhuketBloke]

10 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

I have a solution for the mass exodus that occurs this time of year. Move Songkran up into the mountains where the bushfires are blazing. Everybody wins.

The mass exodus, I think he means the mass influx of people coming to celebrate Songkran, airports are always busy and just because he had observed a few other misseries exiting the country he missed seeing the masses of people arriving. 

Songkran is a great fun.

Some people I suppose get old and become negative miseries. 

[PhuketBloke]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:52 PM, Marc26 said:

As I said above

I don't really worry about what anyone thinks of Americans 

Some of it is valid, some is not

I can't control that

I just worry about how I act and behave

I think most of us have our preconceived notions about other nationalities 

I surely do.....

Sometimes those notions/bias are correct, sometimes they aren't 

I just take everyone on as an individual 

I was very seriously ill about five years ago, it looked like my time was up for good, I recovered after over six months of severe pain, and since then not a single thing, not anything anyone says, no one's opinion which is against me personally matters in the least bit. 

And life is great. It takes something like that to realise how precious life is.  

[Marc26]

1 minute ago, PhuketBloke said:

I was very seriously ill about five years ago, it looked like my time was up for good, I recovered after over six months of severe pain, and since then not a single thing, not anything anyone says, no one's opinion which is against me personally matters in the least bit. 

And life is great. It takes something like that to realise how precious life is.  

Mine came with aging......

 

Well I never cared about the "American thing" 

I knew I couldn't control what people thought 

Could only control what people thought of me......which I didn't really care either 

I was brought up correctly so think I treat others well.....so always figured people would think well of me in our interactions 

 

 

Glad you pulled through.....

 

 

[PhuketBloke]

On 3/28/2024 at 12:21 AM, Marc26 said:

Mine came with aging......

Well I never cared about the "American thing" 

I knew I couldn't control what people thought 

Could only control what people thought of me......which I didn't really care either 

I was brought up correctly so think I treat others well.....so always figured people would think well of me in our interactions 

Glad you pulled through.....

Cheers.

But there is no American thing, it is only in the minds of some Americans.

It is a bit like the "German thing" I used to come across years ago. Even when I worked in Germany a few times.

Many Germans believed the whole world hated them because of the events during WW2 and the preceding years.

I always told them there is no hatred, my father was in WW2 and he did not hate them.

I asked them about what the British did when they had 2/3 of the world under an empire, what the Japanese did before and during WW2, and what about the 3 million people the Americans killed in Vietnam for not much of a reason. 

I said people blame governments for that but not the people. 

We can all be blamed and feel guilty about some of our country's past but we don't and that is the correct attitude. 

I see the greatest threat to the Americans is their government and the way taxes are treated as a severe crime if they are not dealt with on time and correctly, it seems to hang over their heads according to my experience of talking to some Americans. 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, PhuketBloke said:

Cheers.

But there is no American thing, it is only in the minds of some Americans.

It is a bit like the "German thing" I used to come across years ago. Even when I worked in Germany a few times.

Many Germans believed the whole world hated them because of the events during WW2 and the preceding years.

I always told them there is no hatred, my father was in WW2 and he did not hate them.

I asked them about what the British did when they had 2/3 of the world under an empire, what the Japanese did before and during WW2, and what about the 3 million people the Americans killed in Vietnam for not much of a reason. 

I said people blame governments for that but not the people. 

We can all be blamed and feel guilty about some of our country's past but we don't and that is the correct attitude. 

I see the greatest threat to the Americans is their government and the way taxes are treated as a severe crime if they are not dealt with on time and correctly, it seems to hang over their heads according to my experience of talking to some Americans. 

I experienced the "American thing"

I still do

 

So I don't know how you, a non-American, can tell me what I do or don't experience......

 

It didn't then or doesn't now bother me in the slightest

As you said, I just tell people my government is not me.....

 

But it is absolutely something that I do deal with, as an American 

 

 

Many people will bring up Trump, either good or bad

As you see, I make my feelings known on here but I have no deisre to talk about that stuff in real life, so I usually deflect any of that talk