News Forum - Not so smug now? Expat life in the shadow of Truss

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

As I have said before, I voted to remain in 2016. However, since then, I have listened to the arguments of those who. It’s Brexit and I see their side of the debate. I keep coming back to the central point, that if those who want us in the EU stand a chance, they need to come up with a much more viable answer than slagging off the current position.
 

The timescales are simply too short to judge anything. We didn’t formally leave until December 2020. Since then the whole world has been fighting Covid. The government has been in meltdown for the past 6 months. In addition, the U.K. on September 22nd announced that… 

• UK government to end the special status of all retained EU law by 31 December 2023 under new Brexit Freedoms Bill introduced today

People often ask where are all these new trade agreements? Again, it was only possible to hold talks after the transition period without the explicit agreement of the EU. That ended on December 31st 2020

So to answer your question.  The answer is that it is now enacting a law which will come in to full affect in 2023 which will allow it to change laws that it retained as “Bridging laws” with the EU.  This will touch in many areas it previously couldn’t. These include, environmental, agricultural, employment and critically Asylum. I think it is the Asylum laws which for many who voted Brexit are at the heart of the debate. How can it be, that the decision of the High Court or Supreme Court of a sovereign nation, fully supported by the Home Secretary, be overruled by an EU court? 

As Micheal Gove once put it:

Every single day, every single minister is told: ‘Yes Minister, I understand, but I’m afraid that’s against EU rules.’ I know it. My colleagues in government know it. And the British people ought to know it too: Your government is not, ultimately, in control in hundreds of areas that matter.”
 

Like I said, I voted to remain in the EU  I have lived and worked in the EU for many years  I was married to a Dutch lady for many years and have a home there. My in-laws obviously still live there and I have a strong sense of European identity. I love Europe and it’s people. But I have since come to dislike the EU project. Hopefully one day it will return to an economic trading block and not the nonsense of 89dB stickers having to be applied to my wheelie bin!!  

Well you need to explain the OBR's own figures showing the damage being done.

The UK could have remained within the trading block but that was deemed unacceptable by the more extreme Brexiteers.

As for Goves comments. Did he give any examples of these EU rules? Or is it just another perpetuation of the bendy banana myth? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth

 

[Soidog]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Well you need to explain the OBR's own figures showing the damage being done.

The UK could have remained within the trading block but that was deemed unacceptable by the more extreme Brexiteers.

As for Goves comments. Did he give any examples of these EU rules? Or is it just another perpetuation of the bendy banana myth? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth

Well I agree that there has been a financial price to pay for Brexit. How much of that is due to external factors or the influence of the large German banks, who knows. For many however, it’s a financial price worth paying. I just wish there was a more constructive debate around the benefits of being in community such as the EU. I get the trading bloc argument. I even get freedom of movement (within limits) for its people. It’s when central EU courts start to have powers which override sovereign courts, that’s when I start to question the logic. 
 

A debate that will go on for decades I suspect. 

[cowslip]

19 hours ago, Soidog said:

Time to move on I’m afraid. It’s called democracy. 

If by moving on you mean rejoining? - yes indeed!

 

PS - your comparison with European countries is risible.

Whereas all countries are facing energy problems, inflation etc only the UK has to deal with the extra financial crisis brought about by Brexit and the incompetent, single issue politicians that came with it.

France has already capped domestic bills to 15%. Germany even 6 months ago had enough fuel in reserve to get trough to next summer - Britain has less than one month.

Almost all countries in the EU have greater "green" energy resources and the will to replace old sources of energy with this. Germany has even run the entire country for a day on green energy.

The entire EU is able to put it's collective weight behind buying energy. UK hasn't got a plan for the next year because we haven't got a government for the past 2 months and the previous one didn't act and the new one is completely round the bend. It is very likely we'll have no PM again by the end of the week.

Edited October 17, 2022 by cowslip

[Soidog]

32 minutes ago, cowslip said:

If by moving on you mean rejoining? - yes indeed!

PS - your comparison with European countries is risible.

Whereas all countries are facing energy problems, inflation etc only the UK has to deal with the extra financial crisis brought about by Brexit and the incompetent, single issue politicians that came with it.

France has already capped domestic bills to 15%. Germany even 6 months ago had enough fuel in reserve to get trough to next summer - Britain has less than one month.

Almost all countries in the EU have greater "green" energy resources and the will to replace old sources of energy with this. Germany has even run the entire country for a day on green energy.

The entire EU is able to put it's collective weight behind buying energy. UK hasn't got a plan for the next year because we haven't got a government for the past 2 months and the previous one didn't act and the new one is completely round the bend. It is very likely we'll have no PM again by the end of the week.

Never mind eh. You could be Thai or Cambodian. Then you couldn’t even complain about it without fear of arrest. Get it in to perspective please. 

[cowslip]

22 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Never mind eh. You could be Thai or Cambodian. Then you couldn’t even complain about it without fear of arrest. Get it in to perspective please. 

don't really see how false comparisons or introducing fear of arrest (more reductio ad absurdum) fit into this discussion. 

[Soidog]

5 minutes ago, cowslip said:

don't really see how false comparisons or introducing fear of arrest (more reductio ad absurdum) fit into this discussion. 

No, I guess not, so let me explain.

While the U.K. is no doubt going through some difficult economic times; some of which are hangovers from Brexit, Covid and other international issues and incompetent Liz Truss, the U.K. still remains one of the finest places on the planet to raise a family and live in safety. Consequently, there comes a point where the continual negativity and harping on at things that could be better loose impact. The U.K. has had many tough times and good times, as many other countries do. Right now we are going through difficulties. But we will get through them without the need for Military Coups. Without the need to kill or imprison thousands of political opponents. And without the breakdown of social order. We should rejoice more in the good things and work collectively to fix those that are broken. The continual need to divide society is something we should leave to the Russian and Chinese governments. It’s certainly not one we should spend too long debating on a small, Thailand centric chat. 
 

Thanks for your time in debating this. Next topic ….

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

And without the breakdown of social order.

I would not be so sure of that Soidog.

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I would not be so sure of that Soidog.

Well, so far so good. Apart from on this forum perhaps

[Rookiescot]

Just now, Soidog said:

Well, so far so good. Apart from on this forum perhaps

Its a discussion Soidog. Not personal. 

[cowslip]

18 minutes ago, Soidog said:

No, I guess not, so let me explain.

While the U.K. is no doubt going through some difficult economic times; some of which are hangovers from Brexit, Covid and other international issues and incompetent Liz Truss, the U.K. still remains one of the finest places on the planet to raise a family and live in safety. Consequently, there comes a point where the continual negativity and harping on at things that could be better loose impact. The U.K. has had many tough times and good times, as many other countries do. Right now we are going through difficulties. But we will get through them without the need for Military Coups. Without the need to kill or imprison thousands of political opponents. And without the breakdown of social order. We should rejoice more in the good things and work collectively to fix those that are broken. The continual need to divide society is something we should leave to the Russian and Chinese governments. It’s certainly not one we should spend too long debating on a small, Thailand centric chat. 
 

Thanks for your time in debating this. Next topic ….

According to the Financial Times, the standards of living in the UK have grown in every decade since WW2 except after Brexit when they have steadily declined.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by cowslip

[Soidog]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Its a discussion Soidog. Not personal. 

I totally agree and no one enjoy a good discussion more than I do. However this particular thread has overflowed to personal insults on at least one occasion.

Hopefully we can always agree to disagree and when we do disagree, we do it without being disagreeable.  

[Guest1]

9 hours ago, 23RD said:

Question how is the German/French economy doing any better?.

Better? 

 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, cowslip said:

According to the Financial Times, the standards of living in the UK have grown in every decade since WW2 except after Brexit when they have steadily declined.

Well it’s a good job we had such a high standard to work from. I think the U.K. will survive and rebound. Not easy to extricate yourself from a financial and political club you have been a member of for nearly 50 years. It would be foolish to think it would be without difficulties. Covid has then added insult to injury and Trussenomics was the final kick in the nuts

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well it’s a good job we had such a high standard to work from. I think the U.K. will survive and rebound. Not easy to extricate yourself from a financial and political club you have been a member of for nearly 50 years. It would be foolish to think it would be without difficulties. Covid has then added insult to injury and Trussenomics was the final kick in the nuts

Trussenomics is the culmination of the extreme right wing government we have had since Brexit.

The Conservatives purged themselves of right of center members and turned itself into UKIP. 

This is what you end up with.

[cowslip]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well it’s a good job we had such a high standard to work from. I think the U.K. will survive and rebound. Not easy to extricate yourself from a financial and political club you have been a member of for nearly 50 years. It would be foolish to think it would be without difficulties. Covid has then added insult to injury and Trussenomics was the final kick in the nuts

I think you need to review the history of UK's relationship with the EU - and their standards of living - Im finding your comments very uninformed and you conclusions naive.

It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who cites Covid as a cause of UK's problems without realising that this was a worldwide problem and doesn't realise that the last time we had inflation like this was until we joined the EU.

Edited October 17, 2022 by cowslip

[cowslip]

10 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well it’s a good job we had such a high standard to work from

You  mean "fall" from?

I don't think you've travelled very much have you?

[Soidog]

50 minutes ago, cowslip said:

It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who cites Covid as a cause of UK's problems

Fantastic. You can stop now then

[JamesR]

7 hours ago, Soidog said:

Well it’s a good job we had such a high standard to work from. I think the U.K. will survive and rebound. Not easy to extricate yourself from a financial and political club you have been a member of for nearly 50 years. It would be foolish to think it would be without difficulties. Covid has then added insult to injury and Trussenomics was the final kick in the nuts

I don't see any difference at the moment.

I have read there are food banks etc but I have never seen one and do not know anyone who has used one.

The supermarkets, pubs etc are still as busy as ever, no one is dying in the street.

I have seen people interviewed on the news and have said they can either afford to pay for gas or food, I can see from many of them they have chosen food in quite an enthusiastic, way.

I have not seen anyone on the news who said everything is OK and they can eat and also do as they please which is the majority of people as far as I can see, the news is not interested in those types of stories, they only want doom and gloom to report otherwise the news does not sell.

We must be the only country in the world where so called poor and starving people are grossly overweight.

I suppose we will really see poverty when households have to reduce from two cars per family to one.

 

[Marc26]

4 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I don't see any difference at the moment.

I have read there are food banks etc but I have never seen one and do not know anyone who has used one.

The supermarkets, pubs etc are still as busy as ever, no one is dying in the street.

I have seen people interviewed on the news and have said they can either afford to pay for gas or food, I can see from many of them they have chosen food in quite an enthusiastic, way.

I have not seen anyone on the news who said everything is OK and they can eat and also do as they please which is the majority of people as far as I can see, the news is not interested in those types of stories, they only want doom and gloom to report otherwise the news does not sell.

We must be the only country in the world where so called poor and starving people are grossly overweight.

I suppose we will really see poverty when households have to reduce from two cars per family to one.

I agree 100%

 

We in the West have had it so luxuriously easy compared to so many that now people having to actually think about what they buy to full thier already full bellies is looked at as some catastrophe

 

And most aren't even trying to cut back, they just spending what they usually do and whining more

[JamesR]

19 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

And what reasons were those?

I don't want to go into a circular argument, I have already stated my reasons.

[JamesR]

17 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Flag biting nonsense.

Germany was not dictating your way of life. 

The EU is neither Marxist or Communist.

Nor is it a democracy, the leaders are unelected Eurocrats making up any law they wish to tie us down. 

[JamesR]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah the 350 million a week for the NHS. Whatever happened to that?

The NHS is absolutely terrible, it should be ashamed.

Two weeks ago I had a medical problem, the details are not necessary.

I phone the GP, saw him within two hours, was given a two week course of antibiotics.

On the same day I saw a nurse for treatment.

I have seen the nurse every three days for treatment and have two more bookings this week.

All for free at the point of use.

The things we have to put up with.

My Thai sister in law was ill two years ago with Covid, she was put into a coma and put on a ventilator and had a dedicated team of nurses  looking after her.

She recovered, while there she was found to have poorly functioning kidneys and had to live on a dialysis machine for a year, she has now received a kidney transplant and will outlive the rest of us.

The NHS is rubbish as you can see.

Oh yes, it was all for free at the point of use, she said if she had been living in Thailand she would have been dead by now.

 

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, JamesR said:

I don't see any difference at the moment.

I have read there are food banks etc but I have never seen one and do not know anyone who has used one.

The supermarkets, pubs etc are still as busy as ever, no one is dying in the street.

I have seen people interviewed on the news and have said they can either afford to pay for gas or food, I can see from many of them they have chosen food in quite an enthusiastic, way.

I have not seen anyone on the news who said everything is OK and they can eat and also do as they please which is the majority of people as far as I can see, the news is not interested in those types of stories, they only want doom and gloom to report otherwise the news does not sell.

We must be the only country in the world where so called poor and starving people are grossly overweight.

I suppose we will really see poverty when households have to reduce from two cars per family to one.

I couldn’t have written that better myself @JamesR. It’s 100% accurate. The news and other media in the U.K. generate an atmosphere which is so negative and depressing. At the same time they report that mental health problems are increasing. I’m not surprised. 
 

I feel exactly as you write about the U.K.  I watched a Panorama program on the BBC (what a shower of shite that lot are) a few months back. That was about increasing poverty levels and it was difficult to understand what it was they were reporting on. Everyone they spoke to was overweight. Drove a car. The odd iPad on the side of the decently furnished house. Designer training shoes on the kids and Sky Sports satellite tv playing on the TV.
 

We in the West have lost a grip on reality of what hard times are. Consequently, when things change and you can only have one week holidaying in Spain rather than two, their world falls apart. 

The same is true of interest rates now. When I was buying my house back in the 1990’s interest rates were routinely 6-10%. They have only been ultra low in the last 10-12 years and people have over reached. Suddenly, that lack of financial planning becomes the governments problem and they need to subsidise income with everyone else’s money (tax).

Im not sure what the answer is short of a war in Europe or making them all spend a month living in Somalia. 

 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, JamesR said:

Nor is it a democracy, the leaders are unelected Eurocrats making up any law they wish to tie us down. 

Who voted for Lizz Truss to be Prime Minister?

[TheDirtyDurian]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

I couldn’t have written that better myself @JamesR. It’s 100% accurate. The news and other media in the U.K. generate an atmosphere which is so negative and depressing. At the same time they report that mental health problems are increasing. I’m not surprised. 
 

I feel exactly as you write about the U.K.  I watched a Panorama program on the BBC (what a shower of shite that lot are) a few months back. That was about increasing poverty levels and it was difficult to understand what it was they were reporting on. Everyone they spoke to was overweight. Drove a car. The odd iPad on the side of the decently furnished house. Designer training shoes on the kids and Sky Sports satellite tv playing on the TV.
 

We in the West have lost a grip on reality of what hard times are. Consequently, when things change and you can only have one week holidaying in Spain rather than two, their world falls apart. 

The same is true of interest rates now. When I was buying my house back in the 1990’s interest rates were routinely 6-10%. They have only been ultra low in the last 10-12 years and people have over reached. Suddenly, that lack of financial planning becomes the governments problem and they need to subsidise income with everyone else’s money (tax).

Im not sure what the answer is short of a war in Europe or making them all spend a month living in Somalia. 

It's a bit of a misnomer about the higher interest rates in the past. 

When interest rates were high in the past, mortgages as a proportion of salary were much lower. 

These days, due to decades of falling wages in real terms, although interest rates may be lower, the hit is proportionally higher because those "lower" mortgages make up a much higher proportion of salary. 

Add in high inflation and high energy costs and that's why so many people are struggling right now.