News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[23RD]

I concur Rookiescot this topic is getting like an out of control episode of University Challenge I bet the The Moderators are feeling like Bamber Gascoigne trying to control an unruly bunch of Ken Barlows.

I'm waiting for the AAR (After Action Review) to establish the facts far to many People believing what they see in the media as gospel. 

 

[Stonker]

@Rookiescot, I agree with you and I'm actually starting to wonder if he's so divorced from reality that he may have lost his marbles, rather like the other loonie leader who thought / thinks he can do no wrong and is above everything,  but the point I'm trying to make occasionally isn't that he's justified but just that some things he says may have an element of truth, particularly to some Russians.

It may well be a case of 'x has got a football team, y has got his spaceships, but I'm the only one who's got his own war', but that doesn't mean that everything he says is wrong.

[PBS]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

Those who signed up to and ratified the Convention agreed not to use, produce or supply them, but that doesn't make their use a war crime - just not nice.

Just to clarify there are penal codes to enforce compliance by member countries having agreed to the relevant Article., plus obligation to assist States who have been attacked by parties using cluster bombs. Don't recall any action taken against Russia during the Syrian war for deployment of cluster bombs, be interesting if ICC or some Human Rights organisation try proceedings in this instance against Russia, 

https://www.clusterconvention.org/national-implementation-measures/

https://www.clusterconvention.org/victim-assistance/

Edited March 1, 2022 by PBS

[JohnC]

I wish they can sort this out by having discussions and coming to an agreement. Maybe East of the dneipro river goes back to the Russians and Ukraine agree not to join NATO??

I'd keep America away from the talks because I think they'll only make matters worse.

I'm not keen on poking the big bear that has over 6k nuclear missiles and an increasingly pissed off bloke in charge of them regardless of who is right or wrong. 

[Noble_Design]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

 Me too.

I don't want to jump on the 'lace panty / loony' bus, but it's all a bit seriously bizarre like these meetings with other presidents and his own staff at opposite ends of an absurdly long table.

It's almost shades of Howard Hughes, divorced from reality, as it's hard to believe that he's so surrounded himself with 'yes-men' that they didn't point out that it was never going to just be a walk-in.

You're talking about 40 km long convoys, just lined up with no air cover in place, and Russian soldiers thinking they're just on exercise and not observing the absolute basics by running out of fuel.

It's almost surreal, as if he's sacked his advisers and generals and doesn't trust anyone and is just micro-managing things from afar - almost like someone else on the world stage in a world of their own.

It's just wierd and makes you wonder if he'll be brought down by the West or someone a lot closer to home. 

Kinda like Hitler during his last days under the Fuhrer bunker waging wars and moving troops on a map not realizing that reality above ground was far different that what his generals were telling him.

[vlad]

I saw the cruise missile hitting freedom square that was not a legimate target and MSM showed it rightfully, along with the cluster bomb attack all seen by MSM so you dont need to look at AAR it happened for all to witness.

[Alavan]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I wish they can sort this out by having discussions and coming to an agreement. Maybe East of the dneipro river goes back to the Russians and Ukraine agree not to join NATO??

I'd keep America away from the talks because I think they'll only make matters worse.

I'm not keen on poking the big bear that has over 6k nuclear missiles and an increasingly pissed off bloke in charge of them regardless of who is right or wrong. 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I wish they can sort this out by having discussions and coming to an agreement. Maybe East of the dneipro river goes back to the Russians and Ukraine agree not to join 

You mean Ukraine giving about half of their country to the Russians, making Kiev a town on the border????

Did you ever look on a map?

[vlad]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

 Me too.

I don't want to jump on the 'lace panty / loony' bus, but it's all a bit seriously bizarre like these meetings with other presidents and his own staff at opposite ends of an absurdly long table.

It's almost shades of Howard Hughes, divorced from reality, as it's hard to believe that he's so surrounded himself with 'yes-men' that they didn't point out that it was never going to just be a walk-in.

You're talking about 40 km long convoys, just lined up with no air cover in place, and Russian soldiers thinking they're just on exercise and not observing the absolute basics by running out of fuel.

It's almost surreal, as if he's sacked his advisers and generals and doesn't trust anyone and is just micro-managing things from afar - almost like someone else on the world stage in a world of their own.

It's just wierd and makes you wonder if he'll be brought down by the West or someone a lot closer to home. 

Probably because Ukraine has no combat aircraft or Drone aircraft to use against this massive convoy. If they had airborn defenses that convoy could have been partially destroyed before it got near kiev.

[Alavan]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Yes I have and I've been to Kiev also. The East of the river has less land than the west?

Kiev is just on the West Side but if an agreement can be made it could be safe.

I was just thinking out loud for a resolution that will satisfy both sides. 

Rather than a snidey smartsrse comment what would you suggest?

I have no suggestions, it is not to me to make suggestions,  but I think not one country will agree to give away nearly half of its teritorium. ukraine would lose all its lan East and North of Kiev and leave only a small coastal stroke near Odessa. I wouldn’t call your idea a resolution that will satisfy both sides.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Alavan said:

I have no suggestions, it is not to me to make suggestions,  but I think not one country will agree to give away nearly half of its teritorium. ukraine would lose all its lan East and North of Kiev and leave only a small coastal stroke near Odessa. I wouldn’t call your idea a resolution that will satisfy both sides.

Well that's a much nicer response for a start. 

East of that river has been like a civil war since 2014 and whilst I agree that Ukraine won't want to give it up, depending on what happens in these discussions, they might not have a choice if they don't want missiles raining down on them. 

As much as I don't like putin he's a man with a lot of nukes that none of us want him to use. 

It'll be a fine balancing act to get both sides to agree to anything but it's likely to be the only means of stopping further war

[vlad]

Looks like Russia is going to siege kiev. What response will the west do when we see people starving to death and freezing to death? Russia will not fight a guerrilla war in Kyiv its too big. We are talking about a big City. 

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, PBS said:

Just to clarify there are penal codes to enforce compliance by member countries having agreed to the relevant Article., plus obligation to assist States who have been attacked by parties using cluster bombs. Don't recall any action taken against Russia during the Syrian war for deployment of cluster bombs, be interesting if ICC or some Human Rights organisation try proceedings in this instance against Russia, 

https://www.clusterconvention.org/national-implementation-measures/

https://www.clusterconvention.org/victim-assistance/

The penalties are agreed by the countries signing up, so effectively self-imposed - they're NOT 'war crimes'.

... and as Russia hasn't signed up to it, as has been said twice, no "proceedings" are possible - it simply isn't an option.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

Looks like Russia is going to siege kiev. What response will the west do when we see people starving to death and freezing to death? Russia will not fight a guerrilla war in Kyiv its too big. We are talking about a big City. 

 

Maybe, but it's probably more likely they will do to Kyiv what they have begun to do to Kharkiv. Basically pound it (and it's people) to dust. Of course doing either won't endear Russia to the Ukrainian population and will make a full scale and long lasting insurgency more likely. Russia doesn't have the population base anymore to fight that against a country as big and accommodating to an insurgency as Ukraine.  

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, vlad said:

Probably because Ukraine has no combat aircraft or Drone aircraft to use against this massive convoy. If they had airborn defenses that convoy could have been partially destroyed before it got near kiev.

Sorry, but that's badly incorrect.

Ukraine has attack drones, which it's had from Turkey for three years and used already, successfully, and a hundred Mig 29's and Su 25's.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-02-26/card/ukraine-says-it-uses-turkish-made-drones-to-hit-russian-targets-DrigGO7vkGfDzbBuncnA

I see it's now confirmed Ukraine will be getting 70 Mig 29's and Su 25's from Bulgaria, Slovakia and Poland, paid for by the EU, as suggested,  not Typhoons as some thought which would have been absurd.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-fighter-jets-ukraine-russia-invasion-b2025470.html

[1l1]

Meanwhile putin's watchdog bans non-govt massmedia for calling things by their name - "war" rather than officialy approved term "military operation".

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-699051

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by 1l1

[Alavan]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Well that's a much nicer response for a start. 

East of that river has been like a civil war since 2014 and whilst I agree that Ukraine won't want to give it up, depending on what happens in these discussions, they might not have a choice if they don't want missiles raining down on them. 

As much as I don't like putin he's a man with a lot of nukes that none of us want him to use. 

It'll be a fine balancing act to get both sides to agree to anything but it's likely to be the only means of stopping further war

East of the river is a lot bigger than just the Donbas where there was a civil was. Kharkiv, Maripoel, Dnjepropetrovsk,and a lot of other cities.

[HiuMak]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but that's badly incorrect.

Ukraine has attack drones, which it's had from Turkey for three years and used already, successfully, and a hundred Mig 29's and Su 25's.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-02-26/card/ukraine-says-it-uses-turkish-made-drones-to-hit-russian-targets-DrigGO7vkGfDzbBuncnA

I see it's now confirmed Ukraine will be getting 70 Mig 29's and Su 25's from Bulgaria, Slovakia and Poland, paid for by the EU, as suggested,  not Typhoons as some thought which would have been absurd.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-fighter-jets-ukraine-russia-invasion-b2025470.html

Russians are in for a good fight

[PBS]

8 hours ago, Stonker said:

The penalties are agreed by the countries signing up, so effectively self-imposed - they're NOT 'war crimes'.

... and as Russia hasn't signed up to it, as has been said twice, no "proceedings" are possible - it simply isn't an option.

ICC are currently investigating whether 'war crimes' charges can be bought against Russia. See how this unfolds...

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, PBS said:

ICC are currently investigating whether 'war crimes' charges can be bought against Russia. See how this unfolds...

The ICC and others others "investigate" lots of things - what should arguably be a war crime and what actually are war crimes are very different.

Realistically, if you win or have the authority it's never a war crime, from MiLai to Bloody Sunday, but if you lose then stand by ...

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, 1l1 said:

Meanwhile putin's watchdog bans non-govt massmedia for calling things by their name - "war" rather than officialy approved term "military operation".

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-699051

RT calls it a “ special operation”

To “ Demilitarize & Denazify”

As if Russia with Putins FSB modern Cheka Stalin Terror is NOT comparable to Nazi Germany ! Difference is What? 

RT Best Rated Comedy Show at Present. Laughing so loud at their total Putin- puppet clown show, I’m having to stuff towels in my mouth!

[vlad]

12 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but that's badly incorrect.

Ukraine has attack drones, which it's had from Turkey for three years and used already, successfully, and a hundred Mig 29's and Su 25's.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-02-26/card/ukraine-says-it-uses-turkish-made-drones-to-hit-russian-targets-DrigGO7vkGfDzbBuncnA

I see it's now confirmed Ukraine will be getting 70 Mig 29's and Su 25's from Bulgaria, Slovakia and Poland, paid for by the EU, as suggested,  not Typhoons as some thought which would have been absurd.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-fighter-jets-ukraine-russia-invasion-b2025470.html

Why ave they not attacked that convoy then Stonker ?? if they have Drones capable of taking some of them out.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

Why ave they not attacked that convoy then Stonker ?? if they have Drones capable of taking some of them out.

They have, as detailed in the link I gave.

It's widely reported:

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-02-26/card/ukraine-says-it-uses-turkish-made-drones-to-hit-russian-targets-DrigGO7vkGfDzbBuncnA

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russia-ukraine-war-turkey-drones-effective-deadly

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/02/28/ukrainian-drone-strike-videos-are-extremely-bad-news-for-russia/?sh=6b7ca51371ce

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/15/ukraine-russia-drones-turkey/

 

[vlad]

we have reporters im kiev and the other major city's being targeted but no reports have surfaced saying that 40 mile convoy has been attacked. The klitcskow's have just been interviewed by the beeb in kiev and they never mentioned it either ? if it had been arttacked it would have been reported on MSM like sky and the BBC.

[Fester]

1 minute ago, vlad said:

we have reporters im kiev and the other major city's being targeted but no reports have surfaced saying that 40 mile convoy has been attacked. The klitcskow's have just been interviewed by the beeb in kiev and they never mentioned it either ? if it had been arttacked it would have been reported on MSM like sky and the BBC.

It's probably not worth mentioning then. 

[vlad]

No fester not untill there reputed and not websites that could be dodgy or propaganda. like the supposedly cruise missile strike in a factory site last week in Ukraine when it was proved it was filmed a year ago in an Israli air strike.