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News Forum - Phuket governor petitions Bangkok to end restaurant alcohol ban, bar closure order


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The governor of Phuket has lodged a formal appeal for restaurants on the southern island to be allowed to sell alcohol and for nightlife to be re-opened. The Phuket News reports that Narong Woonciew submitted the request to the Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration yesterday, citing the unprecedented financial struggles faced by locals as a result of the restrictions. The island has been open to foreign tourists since July 1 through its sandbox scheme but, as the Phuket News reports, Narong says visitors are adversely affected by being unable to enjoy alcohol in restaurants while on holiday. “Phuket province has […]

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46 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

He says the owners of bars and nightclubs are willing to adhere to strict disease control measures if they are allowed to re-open to serve sandbox tourists.

But these are the strict disease control measures!

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Well today the covid numbers (PCR confirmed) have come down to under 200 in a day.. however this clip from phuket news today shows that people are still being put in hide'm away hotels! 39 tested with atk's but 472 daily increase 

And don't forget the 9 groups sent to detect covid on the island where did those figures of positive atk's go to!

The report recorded 39 people suspected of being infected with COVID-19 after testing positive by antigen test kits (ATK), but the total number of people reported as currently being held at ‘COVID-19 Care Centers’ across the island increased by 472, from 1,507 to 1,979.

 

source

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-marks-184-new-covid-cases-one-new-death-81536.php

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-opinion-enough-rope-81516.php

Edited by Malc-Thai
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51 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

citing the unprecedented financial struggles faced by locals as a result of the restrictions. The island has been open to foreign tourists since July 1 through its sandbox scheme

So as it stands …. They are saying the Phuket Sandbox is failing, as not enough TAT tourists flying into Phuket to enjoy the dry beaches in the rain.  Or without bars, and alcohol the local tourists won’t come? 

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If we are going to learn to live with it, this is a reasonable step.

I'm fustrated every time I go out for a  meal that I can't have a single beer...just one.  But no.

 

2 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

They are saying the Phuket Sandbox is failing, as not enough TAT tourists flying into Phuket to enjoy the dry beaches in the rain.  Or without bars, and alcohol the local tourists won’t come? 

 

Both, it would seem, because both appear to be true.

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2 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

however this clip from phuket news today shows that people are still being put in hide'm away hotels! 39 tested with atk's but 472 daily increase 

But you can’t trust the Phuket numbers … red ICU stuck on 35 since 15th September and with daily COVID19 deaths. No article reporting were these deaths are occurring as they ain’t in the Red ICU.

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1 minute ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

But you can’t trust the Phuket numbers … red ICU stuck on 35 since 15th September and with daily COVID19 deaths. No article reporting were these deaths are occurring as they ain’t in the Red ICU.

Yes I have questioned the 35 red cases not changing. so where are the deaths coming from .. if they are going to die surely they would be in a red ward !

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Should never have opened with all those BS rules in the first place, they haven't got a clue what "tourists" want, now it's blatantly obvious that Joe Thai is still not benefitting from the shatbox program the governor has to get on his knees and beg again to his master in BKK. 555

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2 minutes ago, Graham said:

governor has to get on his knees and beg again

He wants, wants, wants ….

Vaccination enough for two jabs for 70%, Sandbox, no local tourists, 7+7 sandbox, Third vaccination, …….. bars and alcohol ….

some knees he got.

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2 hours ago, Malc-Thai said:

Well today the covid numbers (PCR confirmed) have come down to under 200 in a day.. however this clip from phuket news today shows that people are still being put in hide'm away hotels! 39 tested with atk's but 472 daily increase 

And don't forget the 9 groups sent to detect covid on the island where did those figures of positive atk's go to!

The report recorded 39 people suspected of being infected with COVID-19 after testing positive by antigen test kits (ATK), but the total number of people reported as currently being held at ‘COVID-19 Care Centers’ across the island increased by 472, from 1,507 to 1,979.

source

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-marks-184-new-covid-cases-one-new-death-81536.php

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-opinion-enough-rope-81516.php

 

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national newspaper editorial warned the government to buy reliable ATK,as it is a vital tool to contain this virus,especially as there no astra zeneca coming off the production line.but still they went ahead and now unreliable data can make the situation worsen with more delays 

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In the fog of bullshit,  which has been trotted out by various levels of beuracracy, I seem to recall that it was the Governor who decided he required, and felt the need to, impose the alcohol ban.

I don't believe that directive came from BKK, so if I've got it right, why does he need to apply to BKK to get approval to lift his own ban?

Is my memory right  or wrong on this one?

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3 hours ago, harry1 said:

national newspaper editorial warned the government to buy reliable ATK,as it is a vital tool to contain this virus,especially as there no astra zeneca coming off the production line.but still they went ahead and now unreliable data can make the situation worsen with more delays 

It's not unreliable data! none of the antigen tests are being recorded as covid !  only pcr tests.. people are being hidden away in hotels for 2 weeks either recover after another antigen test or turn for the worse and get rushed to a hospital.. the more antigen tests they do here means less pcr tests keeping the totals down so they can look good and keep sandbox going..

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Thailand’s positivity rate (tests conducted to positive cases found) is currently around 26%. This compares to the U.K. of 3%. Now there are many difference in vaccination rate, type of tests, what constitutes a positive and where testing is focused etc etc. However, if you were to test at the same rate in Thailand as the U.K. currently is doing (around 1 million per day), you would have 260,000 positive cases a day. Now even I think that is far too high. But if you half it and half it again, you still end up with 65,000 cases per day. Now that is starting to feel more like the real numbers likely to be infected with the virus. Even half it again and you still have 32,500,  which is a whole lot higher than the 9,489 officially reported today. I’d also add, that even testing 1 million a day in the U.K. isn’t finding everyone. It’s been suggested that in the U.K. the real number could be 40% higher than reported.
 

What really matters is not the actual number but the rate of change. In the last 7 weeks, Thailand’s positivity rate has fallen from 38% to 26%. While that is encouraging, it’s still a massive number. The highest the U.K. got to at the end of last year was 13%. As I have said, these are not easy data to compare in this way and the key thing is to look at rates of change. Thailand had been on a steep upward trend since March 2021. It’s at least encouraging to see the rate is now falling. Is this due to vaccination improving? Due to the lockdowns and restrictions? A decline in the R-0 of the Delta variant? A certain degree of natural protection having contracted the virus? It’s very hard to know and possibly a combination of things. But it is encouraging. 
 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/positive-rate-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&country=THA~GBR

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4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Thailand’s positivity rate (tests conducted to positive cases found) is currently around 26%. This compares to the U.K. of 3%. Now there are many difference in vaccination rate, type of tests, what constitutes a positive and where testing is focused etc etc. However, if you were to test at the same rate in Thailand as the U.K. currently is doing (around 1 million per day), you would have 260,000 positive cases a day. Now even I think that is far too high. But if you half it and half it again, you still end up with 65,000 cases per day. Now that is starting to feel more like the real numbers likely to be infected with the virus. Even half it again and you still have 32,500,  which is a whole lot higher than the 9,489 officially reported today. I’d also add, that even testing 1 million a day in the U.K. isn’t finding everyone. It’s been suggested that in the U.K. the real number could be 40% higher than reported.
 

What really matters is not the actual number but the rate of change. In the last 7 weeks, Thailand’s positivity rate has fallen from 38% to 26%. While that is encouraging, it’s still a massive number. The highest the U.K. got to at the end of last year was 13%. As I have said, these are not easy data to compare in this way and the key thing is to look at rates of change. Thailand had been on a steep upward trend since March 2021. It’s at least encouraging to see the rate is now falling. Is this due to vaccination improving? Due to the lockdowns and restrictions? A decline in the R-0 of the Delta variant? A certain degree of natural protection having contracted the virus? It’s very hard to know and possibly a combination of things. But it is encouraging. 
 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/positive-rate-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&country=THA~GBR

The problem is that none of the numbers mean anything. To find the rate of infection, they need randomised testing, and they've never done that yet.

That's why from early on I ignored the test figures as they only say something about the area where they test (usually limited locations with high risk, suspect for clusters etc.) And now they use a number of ATK tests and don't count the positives from those in the daily infection rates as they are not immediately confirmed by PCR tests.

The death rate however gives a better (but not perfect) idea and is delayed only by 2-3 weeks.

But even those are now incongruent with any possible infection rate. Might they have adopted different criteria instead of "death within 28 days of a positive PCR test?" I wouldn't put it beyond the possibilities anymore...

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6 hours ago, Graham said:

Should never have opened with all those BS rules in the first place, they haven't got a clue what "tourists" want, now it's blatantly obvious that Joe Thai is still not benefitting from the shatbox program the governor has to get on his knees and beg again to his master in BKK. 555

The most disturbing aspect of all this nonsense is that they've convinced themselves that they know what they're doing.

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16 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Thailand’s positivity rate (tests conducted to positive cases found) is currently around 26%. This compares to the U.K. of 3%. Now there are many difference in vaccination rate, type of tests, what constitutes a positive and where testing is focused etc etc. However, if you were to test at the same rate in Thailand as the U.K. currently is doing (around 1 million per day), you would have 260,000 positive cases a day. Now even I think that is far too high. But if you half it and half it again, you still end up with 65,000 cases per day. Now that is starting to feel more like the real numbers likely to be infected with the virus. Even half it again and you still have 32,500,  which is a whole lot higher than the 9,489 officially reported today. I’d also add, that even testing 1 million a day in the U.K. isn’t finding everyone. It’s been suggested that in the U.K. the real number could be 40% higher than reported.
 

What really matters is not the actual number but the rate of change. In the last 7 weeks, Thailand’s positivity rate has fallen from 38% to 26%. While that is encouraging, it’s still a massive number. The highest the U.K. got to at the end of last year was 13%. As I have said, these are not easy data to compare in this way and the key thing is to look at rates of change. Thailand had been on a steep upward trend since March 2021. It’s at least encouraging to see the rate is now falling. Is this due to vaccination improving? Due to the lockdowns and restrictions? A decline in the R-0 of the Delta variant? A certain degree of natural protection having contracted the virus? It’s very hard to know and possibly a combination of things. But it is encouraging. 
 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/positive-rate-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&country=THA~GBR

What does a country-to-country comparative have to do with anything?

Every instance has different aspects - no subliminal superlatives allowed.

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1 minute ago, Bob20 said:

The problem is that none of the numbers mean anything. To find the rate of infection, they need randomised testing, and they've never done that yet.

That's why from early on I ignored the test figures as they only say something about the area where they test (usually limited locations with high risk, suspect for clusters etc.) And now they use a number of ATK tests and don't count the positives from those in the daily infection rates as they are not immediately confirmed by PCR tests.

The death rate however gives a better (but not perfect) idea and is delayed only by 2-3 weeks.

But even those are now incongruent with any possible infection rate. Might they have adopted different criteria instead of "death within 28 days of a positive PCR test?" I wouldn't put it beyond the possibilities anymore...

Yes I agree @Bob20  like you say, it’s almost impossible tossers what is really going on. I’m not actually sure if Thailand uses the criteria of death by any cause within 28 days of testing positive for Covid?  That’s the definition in the U.K. which to many seems crazy. You could get hit by a car, fall off a building or have a heart attack and you are counted in the Covid death count. As I’ve said many times, the actual numbers aren’t really important when looking at trend. It’s the rates of change and hence always better to view the graphs using the “Log” scales. 
 

All I do know, is that currently it is too soon to open and they need to hold their nerve a few more months. Perhaps that is exactly what the government know and plan on doing. Managing the people’s expectations is another matter. Maybe Thainess says you should always be optimistic and they are less offended when they are fed BS, unlike us complaining pesky westerners? 

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1 minute ago, Rain said:

What does a country-to-country comparative have to do with anything?

Every instance has different aspects - no subliminal superlatives allowed.

I agree @Rain and I thought I had stated it clearly in the post. The key point was to simply show that the rates are very different. I would also add that the U.K. will use this same type of data when deciding if it should move Thailand from its Red List and hence some country comparison is inevitable. The key message which I will state again, is that Thailand’s positive rate is falling. Still a long way to go before it hits the 5-7% range required to move it to the Green list for many countries, but it’s improving - GOOD NEWS

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3 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes I agree @Bob20  like you say, it’s almost impossible tossers what is really going on. I’m not actually sure if Thailand uses the criteria of death by any cause within 28 days of testing positive for Covid?  That’s the definition in the U.K. which to many seems crazy. You could get hit by a car, fall off a building or have a heart attack and you are counted in the Covid death count. As I’ve said many times, the actual numbers aren’t really important when looking at trend. It’s the rates of change and hence always better to view the graphs using the “Log” scales. 
 

All I do know, is that currently it is too soon to open and they need to hold their nerve a few more months. Perhaps that is exactly what the government know and plan on doing. Managing the people’s expectations is another matter. Maybe Thainess says you should always be optimistic and they are less offended when they are fed BS, unlike us complaining pesky westerners? 

Yes, perhaps we just prefer the clean hard numbers... but from what I hear especially small businesses want (need?) that too. 

(BTW, even in the UK, it's not like if you have a coronary or car accident and afterwards you test positive, you are counted as Covid death. Covid has to have been the main cause of death. This was altered very swiftly after the start of the pandemic in 2020).

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7 hours ago, Malc-Thai said:

Yes I have questioned the 35 red cases not changing. so where are the deaths coming from .. if they are going to die surely they would be in a red ward !

Possible explanation: Maybe they've only got 35 red beds, and there is a waiting list? One dies or is discharged, and another fills the vacancy.

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