News Forum - Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations

[Thaiger]

The Hamas group has agreed in principle to release at least 50 women and children held in Israel, in exchange for approximately 240 foreign and Israeli nationals currently detained in the Gaza Strip. The agreement is now under consideration by Israel. According to Arab diplomats, these negotiations took place in Qatar, with the country also … …

The story Hamas agrees to release hostages in Israel-Gaza strip negotiations as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Fanta]

So the plan is that Hamas hands over 240 very valuable hostages in exchange for 50 “worthless” women & children?  Sounds like bullshit. 

[Rookiescot]

  On 11/16/2023 at 10:15 AM, Fanta said:

So the plan is that Hamas hands over 240 very valuable hostages in exchange for 50 “worthless” women & children?  Sounds like bullshit. 

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Yeah the numbers do not make sense.

I do think HAMAS are desperate for some kind of cease fire though. They are getting their backside kicked.

[Vigo]

The pressure is on Hamas. The IDF is in the al Shafi  hospital compound and is documenting its discoveries including; dead hostage, weapons caches, computers and documentation,  a heavily armed vehicle (parked in a hospital outbuilding), and a tunnel access point. They haven't screened the able bodied males yet, and will most likely pick up some Hamas personnel. If the allegations are true, it doesn't help the Hamas position, although the stark reality is that those supporting Hamas either won't accept the  evidence or  it won't matter.  Hopefully, for the non combatants, an agreement can be reached without delay.

[Fanta]

  On 11/17/2023 at 6:06 AM, Vigo said:

The pressure is on Hamas. The IDF is in the al Shafi  hospital compound and is documenting its discoveries including; dead hostage, weapons caches, computers and documentation,  a heavily armed vehicle (parked in a hospital outbuilding), and a tunnel access point. They haven't screened the able bodied males yet, and will most likely pick up some Hamas personnel. If the allegations are true, it doesn't help the Hamas position, although the stark reality is that those supporting Hamas either won't accept the  evidence or  it won't matter.  Hopefully, for the non combatants, an agreement can be reached without delay.

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What pressure? Hamas knows that they are not long for this world. Israel is the party under pressure to get the job done and stop killing civilians. 

[Pinetree]

  On 11/17/2023 at 6:43 AM, Fanta said:

What pressure? Hamas knows that they are not long for this world. Israel is the party under pressure to get the job done and stop killing civilians. 

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The killing of civilians is an inescapable result of war.  I would think that the civilian death count in any general war, the Falklands apart, exceeds that of combatants.  It was always thus and the vital point is that civilian deaths, however regrettable, must never influence the strategic and tactical mission.  The Israelis know this only too well, hence no cease fire. When I was training for war during the cold war, preparing to carry 'buckets of sunshine' to the Soviet Block, this was a key element of our mental preparation for what we may be asked to do.  I would have had no problem delivering on that mission. 

[Fanta]

  On 11/17/2023 at 7:46 AM, Pinetree said:

The killing of civilians is an inescapable result of war.  I would think that the civilian death count in any general war, the Falklands apart, exceeds that of combatants.  It was always thus and the vital point is that civilian deaths, however regrettable, must never influence the strategic and tactical mission.  The Israelis know this only too well, hence no cease fire. When I was training for war during the cold war, preparing to carry 'buckets of sunshine' to the Soviet Block, this was a key element of our mental preparation for what we may be asked to do.  I would have had no problem delivering on that mission. 

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No-one is denying that non combatants deaths are an inevitability in war however it must be acknowledged that questionable actions such as bombing refugee camps and attacking hospitals are never a good look. The longer this war goes on, the more public opinion is turning  against Israel.

[Vigo]

  On 11/17/2023 at 10:43 AM, Fanta said:

No-one is denying that non combatants deaths are an inevitability in war however it must be acknowledged that questionable actions such as bombing refugee camps and attacking hospitals are never a good look. The longer this war goes on, the more public opinion is turning  against Israel.

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Is it a hospital when used as an operations base from which to launch violent attacks? The reality of this conflict is that non combatants can still be hostile threats. Hamas, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad use women and children as couriers of information and for military supplies. They also use them as carriers of IEDs.  It is not specific to Gaza, as such use was a regular event in Iraq and Afghanistan.   

There have been a relatively  low number of civilian deaths when compared to arab v. arab conflicts.  500,000+ were killed in the recent Syrian war. 400,000+ have died in the Yemen war with the majority from disease and starvation. Saddam Hussein killed 500,000+ Ma'adar over a few decades. No, I am not dismissing the deaths of non combatants, but the positive side is that far fewer people have been killed compared to the typical arab war. That's a pretty good outcome. The pressure, protests and hatred against Israel have always been there. It is nothing new. There is no tangible benefit for Israel to suspend its action. In the absence of an agreement for the arabs to stop attacking, Israel is going to maintain its defensive posture, otherwise there will be another attack in a few months.

[Fanta]

  On 11/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, Vigo said:

There have been a relatively  low number of civilian deaths when compared to arab v. arab conflicts.  500,000+ were killed in the recent Syrian war. 400,000+ have died in the Yemen war with the majority from disease and starvation. Saddam Hussein killed 500,000+ Ma'adar over a few decades. No, I am not dismissing the deaths of non combatants, but the positive side is that far fewer people have been killed compared to the typical arab war. That's a pretty good outcome

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lol… The ratio of non combatant deaths to terrorist deaths is about 100:1 and about half of those are children. More non combatants have been killed in 1 month than nearly 2 years in Ukraine. This cannot be spun as a pretty good outcome. 

  On 11/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, Vigo said:

Is it a hospital when used as an operations base from which to launch violent attacks?

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The doctors and patients would say yes but the lines are clearly blurred. Bombing the refugee camp was just a bad call and Israel has egg on its face after the hospital raid. The authenticity of the evidence is being questioned and a grand total of 1 Hamas fighter was found. Are Mossad still on vacation? 

  On 11/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, Vigo said:

The pressure, protests and hatred against Israel have always been there. It is nothing new

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For 75 years…. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out why… 

  On 11/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, Vigo said:

In the absence of an agreement for the arabs to stop attacking, Israel is going to maintain its defensive posture, otherwise there will be another attack in a few months.

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There has been a deal floating for a few days now - 3 day ceasefire in exchange for some hostages. That seems reasonable to me but Israel won’t agree to it. I can’t see why not because where is Hamas going to go? Like shooting chicken in an urban barrel. Israel has declared war on Hamas not against Palestinians. I am not questioning Israel’s right to self defense only the proportionality of the response and saying that it must conduct war in accordance with international law. 

  On 11/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, Vigo said:

The reality of this conflict is that non combatants can still be hostile threats. Hamas, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad use women and children as couriers of information and for military supplies. They also use them as carriers of IEDs.  It is not specific to Gaza, as such use was a regular event in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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How can bombs and shells determine who is a hostile and who is a friendly? They cannot. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war

[Pinetree]

  On 11/17/2023 at 10:43 AM, Fanta said:

No-one is denying that non combatants deaths are an inevitability in war however it must be acknowledged that questionable actions such as bombing refugee camps and attacking hospitals are never a good look. The longer this war goes on, the more public opinion is turning  against Israel.

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True, but irrelevant.  Hamas has stuck a very sharp stick into a very angry bear, that will not give up until Hamas is dead and buried, regardless of the cost in civilian deaths. They not only need to destroy this generation of Hamas terrorist's, they need to destroy those that support them, and the infrastructure that allows them to live.  This they are systematically doing and a good look doesn't come into it.  The Israelis don't give a fig for Worldwide, largely ignorant opinion, or calls for a cease fire. They don't care that their present actions will breed another generation of terrorist's, they will destroy them too. 'Public opinion', is the very last place we should look to for any worthwhile, logical thinking. 

[23RD]

  On 11/18/2023 at 4:11 AM, Pinetree said:

  Hamas has stuck a very sharp stick into a very angry bear, that will not give up until Hamas is dead and buried, regardless of the cost in civilian deaths. They not only need to destroy this generation

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A picture paints a thousand words. 

[Boom]

On the subject of the Al-Shifa Hospitial raid by IDF, its been known for years that its used as a Hamas command center and place where they torture and execute prisoners.

"Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of “collaboration” died in custody."

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/hamas-tortured-and-killed-palestinian-collaborators-during-gaza-conflict-new-report

During another period of fighting in 2014, a Post reporter wrote that the hospital had become a “de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/16/al-shifa-hospital-symbol-gaza-israel/

The New York Times reported that Hamas terrorists were going through the wards, killing individuals the group believed were collaborating with Israel. The Palestinian Authority’s Health Ministry – not to be confused with the Gaza Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas – accused the terrorist group of using the hospital as a detention and torture center, as well as stealing medical supplies and resources for its own use.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-772168

Edited November 18, 2023 by Boom
link errors

[Pinetree]

  On 11/18/2023 at 5:33 AM, Boom said:

On the subject of the Al-Shifa Hospitial raid by IDF, its been known for years that its used as a Hamas command center and place where they torture and execute prisoners.

"Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of “collaboration” died in custody."

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/hamas-tortured-and-killed-palestinian-collaborators-during-gaza-conflict-new-report

During another period of fighting in 2014, a Post reporter wrote that the hospital had become a “de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/16/al-shifa-hospital-symbol-gaza-israel/

The New York Times reported that Hamas terrorists were going through the wards, killing individuals the group believed were collaborating with Israel. The Palestinian Authority’s Health Ministry – not to be confused with the Gaza Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas – accused the terrorist group of using the hospital as a detention and torture center, as well as stealing medical supplies and resources for its own use.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-772168

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Thank you for posting those links. 

[Pinetree]

  On 11/16/2023 at 6:09 AM, Thaiger said:

The Hamas group has agreed in principle to release at least 50 women and children held in Israel, in exchange for approximately 240 foreign and Israeli nationals currently detained in the Gaza Strip. The agreement is now under consideration by Israel.

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I doubt that very much.  They want them all back, or they will continue.  Now that the 2 5th Fleet Battle Groups in the Med and the 6th Fleet Group in the Gulf, have Israel's back with regard to Iran and Hezbollah, they have a free hand.  No cease fire.  From a mission perspective, I suspect that  the hostages are already considered a lost cause and any that they do get back will be a bonus.  The dead ones will serve as Martyrs to the cause. 

[Boom]

  On 11/17/2023 at 6:50 PM, Fanta said:

There has been a deal floating for a few days now - 3 day ceasefire in exchange for some hostages. That seems reasonable to me but Israel won’t agree to it.

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Why should they, there should be no condition set for the release of the hostages. There is no justification for kidnapping babies, children and ordinary civilians then making demands to return them

[Fanta]

  On 11/18/2023 at 4:11 AM, Pinetree said:

True, but irrelevant.  Hamas has stuck a very sharp stick into a very angry bear, that will not give up until Hamas is dead and buried, regardless of the cost in civilian deaths. They not only need to destroy this generation of Hamas terrorist's, they need to destroy those that support them, and the infrastructure that allows them to live.  This they are systematically doing and a good look doesn't come into it.  The Israelis don't give a fig for Worldwide, largely ignorant opinion, or calls for a cease fire. They don't care that their present actions will breed another generation of terrorist's, they will destroy them too. 'Public opinion', is the very last place we should look to for any worthwhile, logical thinking. 

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I hear you and I don’t know the answers but that “solution” sounds like a never ending vicious circle. Good luck to them because they are going to need it. 

[Fanta]

  On 11/18/2023 at 5:45 AM, Boom said:

Why should they, there should be no condition set for the release of the hostages. There is no justification for kidnapping babies, children and ordinary civilians then making demands to return them

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We do negotiate with terrorists and we have nothing to lose by trying. And it is not about morals, it is about minimising the damage. 

[Pinetree]

  On 11/18/2023 at 8:01 AM, Fanta said:

I hear you and I don’t know the answers but that “solution” sounds like a never ending vicious circle. Good luck to them because they are going to need it. 

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Well it has been so for the Jewish people for the best part of 3,700 years, well before any of the western countries were established, so nothing much has changed. Take the Biblical references with a massive pinch of salt of course. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrNDNOkBnS4

[Boom]

  On 11/18/2023 at 8:16 AM, Fanta said:

We do negotiate with terrorists and we have nothing to lose by trying. And it is not about morals, it is about minimising the damage. 

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I think the rules changed on the 7th. Especially after Hamas declared they would be doing this again and again. The only way now is to dismantle them completely. Unconditional release will get them a pause in the fighting but that will still not end it till they are all eliminated.

After reading what the international press witnessed in the censored videos, the descriptions of some of the rapes and mutilation's while still alive, these animals need to be chased down, every single last one of them.

[Pinetree]

  On 11/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, Boom said:

I think the rules changed on the 7th. Especially after Hamas declared they would be doing this again and again. The only way now is to dismantle them completely. Unconditional release will get them a pause in the fighting but that will still not end it till they are all eliminated.

After reading what the international press witnessed in the censored videos, the descriptions of some of the rapes and mutilation's while still alive, these animals need to be chased down, every single last one of them.

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Indeed so, so it begs the question; eliminating the next generation of terrorist's and those yet to be born, is certainly genocide on a massive scale, but does that stop it for good?  The answer of course is no, it does not solve anything. So where does the civilized balance lie and when this phase in history is all over, what does Israel  do to stop another generation following on from this one? I'm not sure that anyone can answer that question, but at the very least, it will mean restriction,  pain, distress,  abject poverty, exclusion from the modern World  and  early death for the Palestinian people for very many generations to come.  And when they contemplate this, they have Hamas, their idiot West Bank political mates, Iran and other Western Hamas sympathizers to thank for it. 

[Fanta]

  On 11/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, Boom said:

I think the rules changed on the 7th. Especially after Hamas declared they would be doing this again and again. The only way now is to dismantle them completely. Unconditional release will get them a pause in the fighting but that will still not end it till they are all eliminated.

After reading what the international press witnessed in the censored videos, the descriptions of some of the rapes and mutilation's while still alive, these animals need to be chased down, every single last one of them.

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The rules haven’t changed. Hostages are bargaining chips, a deal can always be struck and it is only terms that cause the friction. Israel needs to give a little to secure their release or at give the perception that they are trying. 

btw; you really should stop believing MSM designed to fuel your outrage and make any and all Israeli response seem perfectly justified. Try something also biased such as Al Jazeera and hopefully you can figure a semblance of balance.

https://www.aljazeera.com/tag/israel-palestine-conflict/

[Boom]

  On 11/18/2023 at 9:43 AM, Fanta said:

The rules haven’t changed. Hostages are bargaining chips, a deal can always be struck and it is only terms that cause the friction. Israel needs to give a little to secure their release or at give the perception that they are trying. 

btw; you really should stop believing MSM designed to fuel your outrage and make any and all Israeli response seem perfectly justified. Try something also biased such as Al Jazeera and hopefully you can figure a semblance of balance.

https://www.aljazeera.com/tag/israel-palestine-conflict/

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btw you should not assume that I read only MSM, that was your first mistake, your second was then sending me a link to the propaganda spewed out by Al Jazeera

So back to the post topic, yes of course deals can always be struck, why do you think it should be Israel making the first move by giving? If Hamas made the first move all this would stop. 

[Boom]

  On 11/18/2023 at 9:21 AM, Pinetree said:

Indeed so, so it begs the question; eliminating the next generation of terrorist's and those yet to be born, is certainly genocide on a massive scale, but does that stop it for good?  The answer of course is no, it does not solve anything. So where does the civilized balance lie and when this phase in history is all over, what does Israel  do to stop another generation following on from this one? I'm not sure that anyone can answer that question, but at the very least, it will mean restriction,  pain, distress,  abject poverty, exclusion from the modern World  and  early death for the Palestinian people for very many generations to come.  And when they contemplate this, they have Hamas, their idiot West Bank political mates, Iran and other Western Hamas sympathizers to thank for it. 

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Eliminating Hamas terrorist's is not genocide though, Israel has declared war with them, its their goal. So the objective I stated may have been misinterpreted by you? Lets face it, what they did was beyond human.

[Fanta]

  On 11/18/2023 at 10:03 AM, Boom said:

btw you should not assume that I read only MSM, that was your first mistake, your second was then sending me a link to the propaganda spewed out by Al Jazeera

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pfft… both sides are biased and spewing out propaganda. Your incessant cheering of a short sighted “solution” is proof of that. 

  On 11/18/2023 at 10:03 AM, Boom said:

So back to the post topic, yes of course deals can always be struck, why do you think it should be Israel making the first move by giving? If Hamas made the first move all this would stop. 

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Hamas has already made the first move by releasing a few hostages and also proposed a deal for further hostages. Israel’s response has been a solid no. Hopefully they will come to an agreement and more hostages can be safely released. 

[Pinetree]

  On 11/18/2023 at 9:43 AM, Fanta said:

The rules haven’t changed. Hostages are bargaining chips, a deal can always be struck and it is only terms that cause the friction. Israel needs to give a little to secure their release or at give the perception that they are trying. 

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That is a misunderstanding of what is happening here and the probable mindset of Israel.  There is no lee way, no 'give' as you put it and the hostages are not a bargaining chip.  They must be returned, but that in itself will not stop the Israel mission to eliminate Hamas.  Sadly, but inevitably, the hostages are a red herring when it comes to seeing an end to this conflict. Aljazeera is the very last news outlet that can say anything of any significance in most things, and certainly not on this subject.