News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[1234567]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:35 PM, ChicagoExpat said:

I actually don't know if the raw numbers are accurate or not.  How they are presented -- that is the lie.  And it's what I've been saying (but you knew that...)

Speaking about numbers; would you like to compare the numbers WHO is the killer and terrorist here? The Jewish state is responsible of hundreds of times more killing, using exploding ammunition to civilians, using dirty ammunition, using white phosphorous, etc.

The numbers serve Palestinian cause very clearly; be it killed or maimed civilians, expelled people (6 000 000 Palestininas are NOT allowed to their homes; Israelis ZERO. Let me repeat that; ZERO Israeli have been forbidden to return.)

This utter DUMBNESS of yours trying to whitewash the Jewish state is simply pathetic. But very common to anglospherean old farts. They just blindly believe the main-stream media from Anglospehere, that is paid by a certain religious-ethnic group... ;-)

(And if "Jewish state" as an expression hurts you, talk to Netanyahu,. It was HIM who said "Israel is a Jewish state - A state for Jewish people. Not me.)

[1234567]

12 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You condemn Russia for occupying Ukrainian land. Do you condemn Israel for occupying Palestinian land? 

This is very valid point!
The yankee -led lap-dogs condemn and boycott Russia, that has about 75 years to go to be even with the terrorist state Israel. 
USA itself has attacked 32 countries since WWII and no boycott. Because it is "different". :-)
When Jews in 1943 raised in violent resistance in Warsaw Ghetto, that was heroic. When Hamas does the same, it is "terrorism".
A bit like Nelson Mandela was "terrorist" until 2008, for not playin to the US-sponsored Apartheid. Yankees and Britons; the real colonizers and terrorists, don't like when someone demands the same rights than they think to have. Isn't it irritating?

[1234567]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:57 PM, ChicagoExpat said:

I lived in Israel for almost 4 years; I had both Arab and Jewish employees.  I conducted evacuations of Palestinians out of Gaza twice, when things were really bad during the Second Intifada, bring them through Allenby to exit to Jordan.  While no one, including me, would argue that Israel doesn't also have blood on its hands, and I fully condemn the expansion in the West Bank... your account above is simplistic, simplistic to the point of being inaccurate.  To point out one obvious howler -- there are no Israeli lookout posts in the streets of Gaza.  Israel withdrew fully from the Gaza Strip while I lived there (2005?) -- at the time there was a small kibbutz and synagogue there that Israel forcibly evacuated under the naïve belief it would ease tensions.  And urine bottles, even if they existed and crude as they are, are far better than suicide vests with the components coated in rat poison tp prevent blood clotting (I was with the family of one American boy -- Daniel Wultz -- blown up at a shwarma stand by a suicide bomber who came to Tel Aviv looking to kill civilians).

You're leaving out the lies told by the Palestinian side, the fact that there is an entire industry created by vested interests to stoke their rage and violence which they inevitably vent in horrific ways, the continually bad choices made by the Palestinian side to reject peace and ALWAYS choose violence, the average Gazan's tolerance and support of violence, and so much more.

And I'd point out that the worst excesses on Israel's side have occurred in recent years, after spasms of Palestinian violence.  That doesn't excuse them, but it does largely explain them.

I'd ask that you really hear both sides of this issue -- your self-education has only just begun -- and stop preaching to us until you do.

Israel with its huge criminal record and blatant inhumanity, total ridiculing of laws, has very clearly proven that it has NO right to exist any more!
It has breached so many laws and agreements, that any other country in the world history has been attacked and blown into pieces for waaaay less. 
The only human way to resolve is the one-state-solution; Palestine.
Israel dismantled, and put to pay for its crimes, with interests. The leaders executed because no amount of jail years can equal to amount of innocent lives they have executed; purposely and cold blood.
The immigrant Jews returned to their countries. (From you opinion it is clear that you have close friends who have used this "special offer"; to move to Israel in settlements, and have free piece of land. Did they also have criminal recird like many yankees who escape to Israel have?)

[Grumpish]

32 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

I have no idea who are you trying to fool; maybe just yourself:
The ONE AND ONLY in wrong in this conflict, is the Israelis. ONE AND ONLY! Period!
The Palestininas were dumb enought to accept the Jewsih people escaping Europe some 100 years ago, and now they pay the price.
The Jews just did not come; they started to occypu the land more and more. When the Palestininas said "NO MEANS NO"; that they too, as peoiple living in the freaking country, have rights.
Then started the violence; Palestininns trying to defend, but that went wrong. THe Jews even attacked Britons; the nation that gave the land of others to them.

Since the founding of Israel, Israel has broken EVERY SINGLE agremeent, and acted in like complete hoodloms, in impunity. Committing war-crimes every single day since the founding of the country. White phosphorous, exploding bullets, killing of civilians, using "dirty" ammunition on civilians, shooting schools and hospitals, denying the return of occupied people (THE CIVILIANS!!!), etc.

And you blatantly defend this terrorist state! You are simply human SCUM on supporting terrorist and killing! SCUM!

T

You have very clearly taken a side. I have not, I do not defend Israel, nor do I defend Hamas, there is a lot of blood on both parties hands and neither is innocent - you are outraged by Israel's response and the civilian casualties (and I do feel that the response has been excessive) but Hamas has almost always targeted civilians in its attacks, as well.

[Vigo]

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Speaking about hate speech; what do you think when Knesset members, the REPRESENTANTS OF THE PEOPLE of Israel, tell publicly how Plaestininas should be burnt, shot, killed, they are animals, to have 2 kills at one shot by shooting a pregnant woman?

"Beheaded babies":
Do you have some proof of this, other than your lunatic tailing of babbling of IDF soldier, who said he "saw" them, but no one else have seen them?

What is the point in repeating that bullshit? Do you yourself believe into it, or just WANT to believe so?

Which MKs and under what circumstances? There have been  MKs who spoke very nastily and violently against secular and non religious jew Israelis too.   We are in time following a horrific event when emotions are running hot.  Please be more specific. (And please note I am not israel  parliamentary  spokesperson.) And for fairness, can you do comparison of what is said in Arab assembly  events. 

In respect to the atrocities, there will be a full accounting including an inventory of photos you can drool over in delight, ok. According to you, there were no murders and no deliberate targeting of children. ok. According to you none of the graphic videos shown in this NY Times video occurred. Ok. it must be a sinister conspiracy cooked up by juden, yes?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-hamas-deaths-killings.html

[Vigo]

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Israel with its huge criminal record and blatant inhumanity, total ridiculing of laws, has very clearly proven that it has NO right to exist any more!
It has breached so many laws and agreements, that any other country in the world history has been attacked and blown into pieces for waaaay less. 
The only human way to resolve is the one-state-solution; Palestine.
Israel dismantled, and put to pay for its crimes, with interests. The leaders executed because no amount of jail years can equal to amount of innocent lives they have executed; purposely and cold blood.
The immigrant Jews returned to their countries. (From you opinion it is clear that you have close friends who have used this "special offer"; to move to Israel in settlements, and have free piece of land. Did they also have criminal recird like many yankees who escape to Israel have?)

Immigrant jews, 1 million come from Arab countries. they were expelled and lost all possessions. Please state how you will deal with this.

In respect to the  local jewish community that existed before partition, what will you do with them? Before partition west bank was part of Israel. it was lost in 1948 to Jordan and then recaptured in by Israel in 1967. Do they  get to go back or are they permanently banished?

In respect to much of Gaza which is not populated by the actual original residents, but other arab immigrants, should they be expelled?   Much of lands "palestinian" arabs claim as theirs is actually Bedouin or Druze land. Will Bedouins  lose their land rights? Will Druze be expelled?

How will you make all the many factions of Arabs in Israel live in harmony under your one grand state?  History shows that Arabs are very good at hating and killing each other. There are not many Israeli arabs willing to give up freedom and  opportunity in favour of living slave like under Iranian style sharia law.

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Israel with its huge criminal record and blatant inhumanity, total ridiculing of laws, has very clearly proven that it has NO right to exist any more!
It has breached so many laws and agreements, that any other country in the world history has been attacked and blown into pieces for waaaay less. 
The only human way to resolve is the one-state-solution; Palestine.
Israel dismantled, and put to pay for its crimes, with interests. The leaders executed because no amount of jail years can equal to amount of innocent lives they have executed; purposely and cold blood.
The immigrant Jews returned to their countries. (From you opinion it is clear that you have close friends who have used this "special offer"; to move to Israel in settlements, and have free piece of land. Did they also have criminal recird like many yankees who escape to Israel have?)

You are beginning to sound like a classic conspiracy theory nut job. You do understand one of the main reasons that Israelis defend their land so fiercely (although I will concede that the ultra-Orthodox zealots take it too far, as do the Islamic zealots)? Or are you going to add Holocaust denial to the rest of your increasingly unhinged babbling?

[TedG]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

You condemn Russia for occupying Ukrainian land. Do you condemn Israel for occupying Palestinian land? 

Do you condemn Russia for its illegal war against Ukraine?   Now is your chance to finally do so. 

[TedG]

2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Israel with its huge criminal record and blatant inhumanity, total ridiculing of laws, has very clearly proven that it has NO right to exist any more!
It has breached so many laws and agreements, that any other country in the world history has been attacked and blown into pieces for waaaay less. 
The only human way to resolve is the one-state-solution; Palestine.
Israel dismantled, and put to pay for its crimes, with interests. The leaders executed because no amount of jail years can equal to amount of innocent lives they have executed; purposely and cold blood.
The immigrant Jews returned to their countries. (From you opinion it is clear that you have close friends who have used this "special offer"; to move to Israel in settlements, and have free piece of land. Did they also have criminal recird like many yankees who escape to Israel have?)

You sound like a Hamas terrorist.  

[TedG]

2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

This is very valid point!
The yankee -led lap-dogs condemn and boycott Russia, that has about 75 years to go to be even with the terrorist state Israel. 
USA itself has attacked 32 countries since WWII and no boycott. Because it is "different". :-)
When Jews in 1943 raised in violent resistance in Warsaw Ghetto, that was heroic. When Hamas does the same, it is "terrorism".
A bit like Nelson Mandela was "terrorist" until 2008, for not playin to the US-sponsored Apartheid. Yankees and Britons; the real colonizers and terrorists, don't like when someone demands the same rights than they think to have. Isn't it irritating?

Come and get us you loser.   You poked the bear last week and you will pay for it.   If you poke the USA it will be 1000 times worse. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Israel with its huge criminal record and blatant inhumanity, total ridiculing of laws, has very clearly proven that it has NO right to exist any more!
It has breached so many laws and agreements, that any other country in the world history has been attacked and blown into pieces for waaaay less. 
The only human way to resolve is the one-state-solution; Palestine.
Israel dismantled, and put to pay for its crimes, with interests. The leaders executed because no amount of jail years can equal to amount of innocent lives they have executed; purposely and cold blood.
The immigrant Jews returned to their countries. (From you opinion it is clear that you have close friends who have used this "special offer"; to move to Israel in settlements, and have free piece of land. Did they also have criminal recird like many yankees who escape to Israel have?)

Gangster Arabs rejected having their own state FIVE times last 75 years. Irrational Violent Stupid Herd- like.
Violent Arabs been attacking and killing and burning Jew Villages last 100 years.Jews did that zero times ever to Arabs.Land given to Jews by UN was terrible, marshy, rocky.Jews turned it into lush agro farms which then attracted the descendants of todays Arabs there.Very few Arabs in West Bank in year 1900 .Land barren, abandoned by Arabs until bought by Jews.

Arabs are backward herd people. No desire or understanding for peace, democracy, freedom. No free will.

Do only what genocidal gunmen tell them. Ruled by Religion. Gaza’s Young being bred only to be future Hamas Soldiers or Incubators for same. Existence but not Life as in West. Clear why they are often described as sub- human ignorant violent primitives.
 

Arabs are Incompatible with Jews so any two- state “solution” could never work.Jews are Western Free Democratic Secular Equal Civilised Smart Advanced. Arabs the complete Opposite and proud of if it.Arabs stagnant for last 800 years. Now there ARE some Arabs who are Israeli Citizens and even Members of Parliament. So drop that “ apartheid” shyte. And how many Jews remain in Arab  Countries. Few hundred outside Morocco. One million Jews Driven Out of Arab states after 1967 war.

Arabs are a defeated people who, having began and lost three genocidal wars against Israel,do not get back their lost lands needed by israel to form a defensible state ( West Bank & Golan Heights). Israel has taken & held those lands by righteous force or arms. Like all other borders & lands worldwide in fact. 

 

[Pinga]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:56 PM, KRLMRX said:

Obviously, you are not aware that this is not Israeli territory. these are territories occupied by Israel.

 

What the hell are you talking about? The attack on civilian Israelis (and Thais, and other nationalities) happened on Israeli territory. As far as Gaza is concerned Israel pulled it's troops out of there 2 decades ago - which you'd know if you had any understanding of the situation.

Hamas had decades and an insane amount of foreign aid to be able to build infrastructure and turn Gaza into a livable area - the reason Israel supplies most of Gaza's electricity, water, and communication isn't that it's prevented them from establishing infrastructure or enforced some sort of "ghetto" on them - the reason is that Hamas took that money and instead of investing it in infrastructure gave it to terrorists, bought massive amounts of weapons, dug tunnels, bought rockets and rocket launchers, and basically diverted everything it could towards killing Israelis instead of making it's own people thrive.

You can't make peace with people who'd rather kill you than see their own thrive. Now it's time to get rid of Hamas for good - nothing less will do.

[Pinga]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:24 AM, McTavish said:

It may well be Israel s intent to drive them out and declare Gaza a DMZ.  Let Egypt or Saudi accomodate and build a new state .... Saudi can afford it.

I wish that was true, but neither Egypt nor Suadi want them nor will accept them. If anyone should be forced to take them in it's Qatar who's funded much of these murders, however there's no chance that will happen as they don't want them either.

[Fanta]

6 hours ago, TedG said:

Do you condemn Russia for its illegal war against Ukraine?   Now is your chance to finally do so. 

No. Do you condemn Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian land? 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

No. Do you condemn Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian land? 

Wouldn’t that be an example of hypocrisy?

While we are at it, and being the topic is Gaza. Who technically owns Gaza? I mean today, not at some historical level. Also how does Israel occupy something where they don’t station troops and don’t control the activities of? After all Hamas controls Gaza, doesn’t that in and of itself prove Israel isn’t occupying it? Just being curious, not trying to make point. Thanks 

[Fanta]

22 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Wouldn’t that be an example of hypocrisy?

I don’t understand your question and I don’t want this topic to be sidetracked into Russia vs Ukraine - you know where to ask those types of question. By way of explanation, imo, the user asked a goading and irrelevant question of @KRLMRX. My bad, I should not have answered it. 

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

While we are at it, and being the topic is Gaza. Who technically owns Gaza? I mean today, not at some historical level.

As far as I am aware, Palestine.

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Also how does Israel occupy something where they don’t station troops and don’t control the activities of?

Israel illegally occupies areas of the West Bank. imo, we should not treat the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as if they are separate “entities” - they are the collective territorial remnants of Palestine.

[Vigo]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

No. Do you condemn Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian land? 

The war with  Hamas does not involved Israel occupying Hamas lands. On the contrary, Hamas has one stated goal to wipe Israel out and to kill all Israelis. Or do you deny this too?

[Manu]

I have just read some awful posts here. I suspect there is no Israeli nor Palestinian on this forum (?), still, most of the views here seem to come from the most extremists from both sides. It is like following a discussion between the harshest far right religious extremists Isrealis and Hamas (what does Hamas mean by the way? Islamic Resistance Movement - not Palestine Resistance Movement). I do not see neither any quote from people on the ground of whom you based your views from, well, if you were posting any quotes from people in the middle of it on whom you based your views, it seems it would be from the ones I am describing above. It seems it is much easier for most in front of computers to call for war rather than peace, which is what the vast majority of people over there want on both sides (well now not so much, and why is that?), instead most views here are backing up the extremists on both sides.

Now extremists have a thing in common, it is that they are always ready to go all the way in order to follow their ideology. There was a very interesting article last week from Tal Shneider, an Israeli political journalist, who knows a little more on the subject than all of us here and, well, she lives there.

"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state."

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Yes, not that simple, right? But please, read the full article.

Also for those who keep coming up with the Palestinian Authority refusing peace offers, etc... well again, not that simple. In 2008 for example... a missed opportunity that seems now it will never happen again from 2 leaders who really wanted peace: what a shame. So close... But to say Abbas refused and that's it is at the very best simplistic. But do not take my word for it, my word nor anyone's here means nothing. This very well sourced article published back in 2013 explains very clearly the reality, yes as usual the extremists doing everything in their power to destroy this peace process.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/details-of-olmerts-peace-offer-to-palestinians-exposed-314261

We all are regular people here but most here are writing stuff as if they were extremists from one side or the other. But what about what regular people in Israel and Palestine say about it? Do they all have your extremist views? Don't they just want peace? And most of all: what is the problem? Well in Palestine, it is very simple what the problem is, they are the ones being colonised and treated like s****. In Israel, they know what the problem is and what should be done to achieve peace. Regular people, people in the middle of it, some who contructed that eventually realising it like...

this ex-Israeli general...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000

or this former head of Mossad

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-09-06/ty-article/there-is-an-apartheid-state-here-ex-mossad-chief-on-israels-west-bank-occupation/0000018a-6abe-dfd9-ad9f-efbe5c720000

Yeah, an "apartheir system" this former head of Mossad describes the situation in the West Bank. Who are we here to say otherwise and contredict someone who has been deep in that system and surely knows better? Yes words like these from this guy and many others of that sort never hit outside news outlets of the middle East, we never hear this message in the West, it is totally erased of the debate, it does not exist. And the result of this is? Well, for example, most posts here are the result of this, extremist views.

[EdwardV]

24 minutes ago, Fanta said:

As far as I am aware, Palestine.

I thought Palestine wasn’t an actual country? Isn’t that the entire idea behind a two state solution, trying to make an independent Palestinian country? 

 

24 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Israel illegally occupies areas of the West Bank. imo, we should not treat the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as if they are separate “entities” - they are the collective territorial remnants of Palestine.

The question was specifically limited to Gaza since that’s the topic of the thread (see the red box below). That said I’m pretty sure the leaders of the West Bank and Gaza consider them separate entities. The question remains, is Israel actually “occupying” Gaza? That is the term thrown out so often, seems an appropriate question??? 

[Vigo]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I don’t understand your question and I don’t want this topic to be sidetracked into Russia vs Ukraine - you know where to ask those types of question. By way of explanation, imo, the user asked a goading and irrelevant question of @KRLMRX. My bad, I should not have answered it. 

As far as I am aware, Palestine.

Israel illegally occupies areas of the West Bank. imo, we should not treat the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as if they are separate “entities” - they are the collective territorial remnants of Palestine.

 

How does it feel being a vocal proponent of British colonial foreign policy?  Or do you not realize that your arguments are based upon the  British colonial  policy, particularly the Sykes Picot agreement? What's next, your demand that we call now Putin,  Czar Vladamir I?   How does "Palestine" own something it never owned? One of the problems with the all knowing Europeans who seek to  maintain their colonial guidance over the middle east is that they are oblivious to the fact that after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the British under a League of Nations mandate took control of the land. In 1948,  Gaza was technically taken away from the Bedouins and other nomadic tribesman clans and the Europeans  decided it would be given to arab immigrants. (after all, they all looked the same to the europeans, didn't they?)   Gaza was going to be made part of  "Arab Palestine". However, Egypt took it over and held it for almost 20 years. Egypt then lost it in the 1967 war. Israel is accused of having occupied the land, but really it was war buffer territory, lost by the Egyptians after they had launched attacks from Gaza and were then defeated. Such is the result of war. As part of the Oslo accords, starting in 1994, Israel started the  handover of the territory to the PLA.  A decade later, Israel was completely out of Gaza. In the decades since 1994, the arabs have refused to invest in the economy of Gaza, relying instead on foreign  support payments.  It is not a "remnant". The Gaza border follows the border agreed to by the Palestinian arabs themselves  when they signed the Oslo Agreement.

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, EdwardV said:

thought Palestine wasn’t an actual country? Isn’t that the entire idea behind a two state solution, trying to make an independent Palestinian country? 

The two state solution is like fire and ice living in harmony. Look at a map - Palestine as a state is doomed.

3 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The question was specifically limited to Gaza since that the topic of the thread (see the red box below). That said I’m pretty sure the leaders of the West Bank and Gaza consider them separate entities. The question remains, is Israel actually “occupying” Gaza? That is the term thrown out so often, seems an appropriate question??? 

You know that Israel is not occupying Gaza while it is occupying the West Bank. You also know that Israel is choking Gaza into extinction. And again I will say those 2 areas are the lands of the Palestinians. It is a contradiction to recognise Palestinians as a distinct people while denying their right to land and statehood. We must condemn Hamas but we should not excuse the collective punishment of Palestinians nor the revenge killing of Palestinian non combatants. My question is: why did Hamas kill civilians and not focus solely on soldiers? They must have known their allies would be forced to distance themselves and that an absolute shitstorm would rain down likely resulting in their own destruction. I know we have been conditioned to think of them as crazy dogs but self preservation is our most basic instinct. Hamas’ rampage makes little sense to me but I have never lived in an open air prison. 

[Fanta]

24 minutes ago, Vigo said:

How does it feel being a vocal proponent of British colonial foreign policy?

it wasn’t for British colonial foreign policy Israel wouldn’t have a pot to piss in, let alone a place to store it. 

[EdwardV]

3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The two state solution is like fire and ice living in harmony. Look at a map - Palestine as a state is doomed.

That wasn’t the point but I agree all the same. The biggest impediment to a two state solution was the Palestinian refusal to abandon the policy of ending Israel as an independent country. Hard to make peace with someone wanting you dead. 

 

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You also know that Israel is choking Gaza into extinction …  It is a contradiction to recognise Palestinians as a distinct people while denying their right to land and statehood.

You mean choking them now right? Didn’t Israel say they would turn on all the services once Hamas released the hostages? Seems a small concession on Hamas part if you ask me. Doesn’t Gaza have a separate border with Egypt? So is it Israel choking Gaza, or Israel and Egypt doing so?

I’m pretty sure that’s never been a historical requirement. We can list off dozens of distinct recognize populations which lack ownership to land and statehood. 

[EdwardV]

21 minutes ago, Fanta said:

My question is: why did Hamas kill civilians and not focus solely on soldiers?

Don’t most if not all terrorists do that? Isn’t that basically part of the definition? I don’t think it’s unique to Hamas or their situation. 

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You mean choking them now right?

A land, air, sea blockade is a chokehold and it has existed for years. Nowadays it is even more extreme. 

8 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Didn’t Israel say they would turn on all the services once Hamas released the hostages? Seems a small concession on Hamas part if you ask me.

Agreed. I can only guess that Hamas want to exchange the hostages for their fellow crazies in prison but that isn’t going to happen. It’s as if Hamas want to die and take as many people as possible with them - insanity. 

9 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Doesn’t Gaza have a separate border with Egypt? So is it Israel choking Gaza, or Israel and Egypt doing so?

Sounds like a regular BDSM orgy - choking all around  Seriously though, the threat of Hamas needs to be contained but the bigger question of why does this threat even exist is the question no-one wants to be seen discussing. 

13 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Don’t most if not all terrorists do that? Isn’t that basically part of the definition? I don’t think it’s unique to Hamas or their situation. 

Again you are refusing to entertain the question of WHY do they exist. And you avoided any discussion of non combatants. Do you have an agenda? I don’t. I am just trying to understand.