News Forum - Thailand to welcome Russian travellers back this Saturday, really?@!, Ukraine Discussion

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Evidence Russia left Bucha two weeks ago?

And if thats the case why did they leave dead Russian soldiers behind?

On April 2, the Ukrainian government has already confirmed the withdrawal of Russian troops from the Kiev region, where Bucha is located.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/02/russian-troops-pull-back-from-areas-near-kyiv-ukrainian-officials-say

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the withdrawal at the end of March.

I do not know why they left the corpses of the soldiers and have not seen any information about it.

[oldschooler]

47 minutes ago, Fester said:

When the topic line is ignored & set aside, then after excessive off-topic posts, it is invariably closed.

Yes normally but not yet here for reasons Istated.

[oldschooler]

48 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Selensky is at least trying to use this war as a shorttcut, to get into EU and, in his thoughts, hopefully NATO, too.

And the EU is on the way, to allow it.  The rules for a membership will have to be widely circumcised, to make that happen any time soon. Also, that would need to speed up the process with Serbia, 'cause they trying/asking for over a decade. So two more beneficiaries, the alliance against the "givers" in EU is getting stronger and stronger.

What most people don't know, about EU: There is a defense pact included, like in NATO. So, just without the non EU Nato-Members, EU would have to defend Ukraine, too.

EU itself has zero military capability.

NATO exists for that purpose.

Ukraine qualifies for neither having incomplete control over its lands, borders & people and being too corrupt. Serbia is pro-Russian so would be vetoed from either too. 

[Poolie]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

You just can't accept that groups of Russian boots were/are, doing their own thing, probably with lack of any leadership.

Thankfully, we are in the smartphone age, so in the future YOU will see a load of stuff from them when things go quiet and the media do their thing...

When that time comes, I reckon a few of you will ride off into the sunset..... 

Anybody take any notice of the media anymore? Not me but you can tell the media whores a mile away, bless 'em.

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Poolie said:

Anybody take any notice of the media anymore? Not me but you can tell the media whores a mile away, bless 'em.

Another one for the cypher ops. 

[Alavan]

15 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Not all Ukrainians want to break with Russia and join the "European family of peoples." This is a tragedy for both the Ukrainian and Russian peoples.

But most of them do, and in a democracy...
I guess once Ukrainians like sailors and truckers started to work in Western Europe (and earning higher wages) they started to compare the life standard there and back home. Having the choice between both you can't blame them.

[Alavan]

16 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

And this, in turn, would not have happened if "pro-Western" forces plus outright neo-Nazis had not come to power in Ukraine in 2014 (what an interesting alliance).  And so on into the depths of history.

OK. They could hold democratic elections, providing the result is certain and Russia won.
I guess same like democratic elections in a neighbouring country where they made certain the result was what they wanted.

 

[Alavan]

13 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

why did you accept a supporter of Putin in the EU?  Then accept Lukashenka too.

Hungary was on the EU road before Orban came to power. The mistake EU made was following Kohl who wanted the expansion to the East.
But those countries mostly don't have the same idea of corruption, democracy, not political independent justice, equal rights to minorities.
Now they say they don't want to follow EU rules (which they agreed on before becomming a member), contraty to EU they say their local constitution goes above EU...
They just want the money from the West and not the obligations

[Guest1]

21 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

EU itself has zero military capability.

NATO exists for that purpose.

Ukraine qualifies for neither having incomplete control over its lands, borders & people and being too corrupt. Serbia is pro-Russian so would be vetoed from either too. 

If it doesn't fit your opinion, it can't be real, right?

The EU treaty has a militaery component in it. Wihich the national forces of the members would have to deliver. Same like the Nato is not having "a NATO Armee", but would need the members to deply troops.

Also you are ignoring the things that just happen, with U.v.d.Leyen in Ukraine , giving Selensky "an envelope with questions" to answer, on the way to EU membership.

Also Serbia would be seen, in Bruessel, as another brick, broken out of the wall of russian supporters. 

But it seems your horizon for politics is limited to your  believes, doesn't matter what real life and actual happenings could teach you.

;-)

[Alavan]

4 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

I hope they were not killed on purpose to speed up the process of joining the EU.

Don't you think you are a bit over the top here? Disgusting.
And yes, Some leaders want Ukraine fast in EU, but the majority of Western Europe doesn't want that... and the vote has to be unanimous.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Here’s a 3 day old war map. Mariupol is lost. The Ukrainian forces defending the Donbas region can dig in and risk being encircled, try to break through or choose to fall back. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

btw: Zelenskyy keeps pushing for peace talks. Is he an appeaser or a Putin supporter? I ask because those labels are attached to anyone in this forum advocating for peace talks. Perhaps he is a realist and wants what is currently achievable in the best long term interests of Ukraine?  Or maybe he is also aware of your claim of a NATO plan to bleed Russia dry at Ukraine’s expense?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russia–Ukraine_peace_negotiations

Zelensky is actually mocking Putin by echoing his “peace” nonsense for political reasons.

Russia will fail in East Ukraine. Ukraines very best forces are there, armed/ trained/ advised by NATO. 

Only Putin has the power to make peace …. my terms ? GET OUT Completely, Stay Out, Pay Damages Fast, Apologize, No Invasion of Russia & Putin to Shove Himself up his own Toxic A*** & Take All Ethnic  Russian Traitors back with you, minus their Cancelled Ukrainian Passports.

Ukrainian People will not tolerate any worthless peace deal with untrusted serial aggressor, liar & deceiver Putin.

Zelensky has publically acknowledged the“ bleed” deal. The Wrecking of Ukraine was unavoidable given Putins mindset, minimum damage all along.

Will be paid for by Russia via Sanctions, Seized Assets etc.

However with NATO support ,the main Putin War objectives of Control & Neutrality are impossible.

This is all fairly obvious stuff that should not need explaining to informed adults. Oh, but wait …….

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

But there is no independent investigation.

Why?

the assertion that it is cold at the north pole can be checked at any time with a thermometer.

The Ukrainian government does not want to confirm the assertion that the Russians killed people in Bucha.

Unfortunately for Russia, in this days you have satelites and drones. Plus survivors. Those people mourning by the graves of their family members are fake also?
OK. Who do you want for that independent investigation? War tribunal? Neutral land?
But will Russia recognise the results of that investigation?

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, Fester said:

Ejecting Hungary from NATO would only make things worse. The EU have a problem with Orban's nationalist policies because he is pro Hungary, more than pro EU. 

I think he is more pro himself and his corrupt croonies than pro Hungary.

[KRLMRX]

26 minutes ago, Alavan said:

But most of them do, and in a democracy...
I guess once Ukrainians like sailors and truckers started to work in Western Europe (and earning higher wages) they started to compare the life standard there and back home. Having the choice between both you can't blame them.

I didn't blame, I wrote that it was a tragedy.  We have this situation because the Ukrainians were given an ultimatum - to be with the EU and forget the common past with the Russians.  Not everyone accepted it.

[oldschooler]

14 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

If it doesn't fit your opinion, it can't be real, right?

The EU treaty has a militaery component in it. Wihich the national forces of the members would have to deliver. Same like the Nato is not having "a NATO Armee", but would need the members to deply troops.

Also you are ignoring the things that just happen, with U.v.d.Leyen in Ukraine , giving Selensky "an envelope with questions" to answer, on the way to EU membership.

Also Serbia would be seen, in Bruessel, as another brick, broken out of the wall of russian supporters. 

But it seems your horizon for politics is limited to your  believes, doesn't matter what real life and actual happenings could teach you.

;-)

NATO is a proven functioning military force. REAL. 

EU Military is Political Paper Wordy Fluff. Fantasy “ Concepts”. 
 
Ukraine & Serbia will never be allowed to join NATO or EU. REALITY.

You know where you can place your immature “Ad Hominem” attacks too.

[KRLMRX]

34 minutes ago, Alavan said:

OK. They could hold democratic elections, providing the result is certain and Russia won.
I guess same like democratic elections in a neighbouring country where they made certain the result was what they wanted.

could, but did not.  protests in 2014 by Russian speakers against the anti-Russian and Euro-oriented agenda of the new Ukrainian government, it sent an army against them.

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Alavan said:

I think he is more pro himself and his corrupt croonies than pro Hungary.

Can’t work out any net benefit for Hungary Govt being pro - Russia …? 

[Alavan]

4 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

could, but did not.  protests in 2014 by Russian speakers against the anti-Russian and Euro-oriented agenda of the new Ukrainian government, it sent an army against them.

Russian speaking people like in Mariupol and Kharkhiv?

[KRLMRX]

32 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Don't you think you are a bit over the top here? Disgusting.
And yes, Some leaders want Ukraine fast in EU, but the majority of Western Europe doesn't want that... and the vote has to be unanimous.

no, it doesn't seem to.

The best thing we can all do for these dead is to find out the truth and punish those responsible.

It is disgusting to use the corpses of innocent people for political purposes. It's not disgusting to demand an honest investigation.

[oldschooler]

44 minutes ago, Alavan said:

But most of them do, and in a democracy...
I guess once Ukrainians like sailors and truckers started to work in Western Europe (and earning higher wages) they started to compare the life standard there and back home. Having the choice between both you can't blame them.

30 million Ukrainian- speakers in western Ukraine. Doubt any are pro- Russian for historical oppression reasons. 13 million Russian - speakers in East Ukraine. Maybe half pro - Russian ? Would be interested to know this Ukraine clearly should have been partitioned pre- independence.

[Alavan]

1 minute ago, Alavan said:

Russian speaking people like in Mariupol and Kharkhiv?

Extreme right (even neo nazi) in Western Europe loved Putin and wanted to be photographed with him. They thought he was their alie fighting multi culturism, immigration, anti Europe. So is Orban (he don't want Europe, just Euro's).
Problem for those extreme right is that Putin just sent them money to destabilise the West end US. That is also why he tries to interfere in elections.

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

This is all fairly obvious stuff that should not need explaining to informed adults. Oh, but wait …….

You should tell Zelenskyy that’s because he is adding peace talks to his Zoom show. I am sure he will take you seriously and not let you out of his sight while calling for his security team.

https://apnews.com/article/24cd8742435251d9dd46bcc29302bd13 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

no, it doesn't seem to.

The best thing we can all do for these dead is to find out the truth and punish those responsible.

It is disgusting to use the corpses of innocent people for political purposes. It's not disgusting to demand an honest investigation.

So Zelensky should not honour his dead citizens in person ? Because there might be some secondary political & morale & rage benefit.

Russia gifted him this advantage. Anybody in mortal struggle with Evil would use it.

Cease your joke broken record about “ investigation”. Will not happen at time of Russia’s choosing , be assured. 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You should tell Zelenskyy that’s because he is adding peace talks to his Zoom show. I am sure he will take you seriously and not let you out of his sight while calling for his security team.

https://apnews.com/article/24cd8742435251d9dd46bcc29302bd13 

changes my points on this how ?
you do know Zelensky is / was an accomplished showman / producer before his political career….. oh you didn’t

[KRLMRX]

21 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Unfortunately for Russia, in this days you have satelites and drones. Plus survivors. Those people mourning by the graves of their family members are fake also?
OK. Who do you want for that independent investigation? War tribunal? Neutral land?
But will Russia recognise the results of that investigation?

Unfortunately for all of us, satellites don't yet record high-definition video. the available photos show us blurry images of corpses and nothing more.

The investigation requires the usual medical examination - when they were killed, with what weapons, whether the corpses were moved (note that in all the photos from Bucha there are corpses with clean white bandages and there are no pools of blood anywhere) and a comparison of this data with the data of satellites and the testimony of witnesses. I'm not a detective, but I think it's obvious.

Participants can be from different countries under the auspices of the UN.