News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[KRLMRX]

50 minutes ago, Transam said:

You seem to be trivialising what's happening by using numbers, from your zillion posts you are obviously supporting the Russian's killing of the innocent to reach their goal. Shameful...

you are mistaken in assessing my goals

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, KRLMRX said:

I answered you, I don't watch Russian TV.  this information was in the pro-Russian news Telegram channels.

Which pro Russian telegram channels?

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

This is a sad consequence of war. Where are the Ukraine forces? In the surrounding fields? No, they are in the cities defending them so that is where the Russians will attack. And there are still a million civilians in Mariupol so if the Russians are targeting civilians why aren’t at least 10% of them dead? 100,000 dead civilians. These accusations of a Holocaust type systematic attack against civilians just don’t stack up when compared to the Ukrainians claimed losses. They should all just go to a big field and fight to the death but that’s not how war works. 

Regular UA forces are strategically deployed around cities, towns and elsewhere (yes fields).

Look to where most of the damage to Russian units occurs and the Ukrainian Army will be close by.

 

[Smithydog]

Just now, Fanta said:

This is a sad consequence of war. Where are the Ukraine forces? In the surrounding fields? No, they are in the cities defending them so that is where the Russians will attack. And there are still a million civilians in Mariupol so if the Russians are targeting civilians why aren’t at least 10% of them dead? 100,000 dead civilians. These accusations of a Holocaust type systematic attack against civilians just don’t stack up when compared to the Ukrainians claimed losses. They should all just go to a big field and fight to the death but that’s not how war works. 

So why make such a statement is the question I have. It is obviously not correct and does not reflect the actual situation on the ground. It is actually quite a silly statement.

It is almost as if the Russian propaganda machine hasn't kept up with modern trends. Are we now seeing the results of a what a controlled environment can do? The availability of smartphones to capture everything, combined with the surveillance capabilities of drones etc, makes it very hard to hide what is actually happening, as a picture or video can be taken and immediately sent out, negating the chance for it to be doctored before distribution.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure propagandists on both sides are trying to spin everything. But the reality is that the truth is more readily available as the speed of transmission of information is faster than ever before.

It makes such statements like that just look that even bit more silly. But perhaps the Russians are too tightly stuck in their old ways. After all, if the cause is so just as they claim, why do they have to hide anything from their own people, other than a controlled message?

The reality is that their cause is not just and the Russian people can't be allowed to see the real truth. What happened to other leaders after defeats is too stuck in the mind of Putin.

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

I answered you, I don't watch Russian TV.  this information was in the pro-Russian news Telegram channels.

So if you dont watch Russian TV how do you claim to know Russian TV is telling the truth and the western media is lying?

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

I accept any information that has confirmation.  

Western media, of course, report on the losses of the Russian army, because they only cover events from one side.

Invasion Profile indicates Russians getting whacked around four to one with Ukraine fighting a guerilla war with effective ambushes of sitting duck armoured columns without air or land cover, then withdrawals to fortified urban centres to avoid getting caught in open field by aerial or land counter- attacks and now effectively counter attacking to encircle the Russian besiegers

Wikipedia : NATO high estimate is 15,000 Russian Army Dead. US high estimate is 4,000 Ukraine Army Dead. These high estimates seem much more realistic than the various low estimates;1300 Ukraine Army Dead ( Ukraine)  /2000 ( US) or 7,000 Russian Army Dead ( NATO).

Ukraine would perhaps have only few hundred prisoners / no deserters / one thousand wounded as homeland- defending force ?
 

Russia by contrast might easily have over 15,000 Wounded as the attacking force , 1 to 1 ratio with their Dead at least ? Prisoners / Deserters ? 5,000 ? Getting up to that 40,000 Russian casualties figure in msm ….. ?

 

[Faz]

Further off topic posts and replies have been removed despite previous advice by moderators to remain on topic. I can assure you, we can remove them in a fraction of the time it took you to compose them. 

Moderator.

[oldschooler]

46 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

So why a fuel depot and not residential areas? after all, the goal is to kill civilians as much as possible.

If there are few missiles, then it is reasonable to use the remaining ones against civilians.

The fuel is in place, because the rockets have arrived.

Anti-tank weapons are powerless against cruise missiles.

The priority is killing civilians, you say. Incompetence, that is, they missed, but they hit the fuel depot exactly. Miracles happen.

The best military achievement is to destroy the city, because the goal is to kill civilians.

Not Tired of Killing adults

The new commander sabotages the task of killing civilians as much as possible, and this in an authoritarian army is possible, but unlikely.

So, none of your arguments work.

Russia Invasion Gaol  appears not “ to kill civilians” ! Even Ukraine says (only) 1,100 civilians killed, Its just that Russia doesn’t mind to target & kill civilians as part of the military objectives.
Now that could just be sadistic local rogue commanders in view of the low numbers.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Invasion Profile indicates Russians getting whacked around four to one with Ukraine fighting a guerilla war with effective ambushes of sitting duck armoured columns without air or land cover, then withdrawals to fortified urban centres to avoid getting caught in open field by aerial or land counter- attacks and now effectively counter attacking to encircle the Russian besiegers

Wikipedia : NATO high estimate is 15,000 Russian Army Dead. US high estimate is 4,000 Ukraine Army Dead. These high estimates seem much more realistic than the various low estimates;1300 Ukraine Army Dead ( Ukraine)  /2000 ( US) or 7,000 Russian Army Dead ( NATO).

Ukraine would perhaps have only few hundred prisoners / no deserters / one thousand wounded as homeland- defending force ?
 

Russia by contrast might easily have over 15,000 Wounded as the attacking force , 1 to 1 ratio with their Dead at least ? Prisoners / Deserters ? 5,000 ? Getting up to that 40,000 Russian casualties figure in msm ….. ?

The dead Russian soldiers are the least of Czar Putins worries. Its the fact the wounded will eventually return home and tell the Russian people it was not a "special military operation" limited to a couple of regions of the Ukraine.

People then are going to realize Czar Putin lied to them.

There is now no outcome which results in Czar Putin winning. 

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Ukraine fighting a guerilla war with effective ambushes of sitting duck armoured columns without air or land cover, then withdrawals to fortified urban centres to avoid getting caught in open field

Oops….  you just explained why the Ukrainian cities are getting attacked. Better roll that one back or it won’t fit with the Russian Nazis on a Holocaust against civilians narrative. And your estimated casualty ratio figures for the Ukraine forces are optimistic at best. 4 killed for every 1 wounded? Try at least 50/50 and a casualty means one less soldier be they dead or wounded. This is not the Alamo. 

[Faz]

35 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

I answered you, I don't watch Russian TV.  this information was in the pro-Russian news Telegram channels.

According to First Draft, a global not-for-profit group that investigates online misinformation and disinformation, most of the misinformation circulating in relation to the situation in Ukraine could be categorised as "unverified claims".

 

As for where this bad information was being shared, First Draft noted that Telegram and Twitter hosted much of the misinformation, with the semi-closed nature of Telegram groups proving particularly challenging for fact checkers and researchers to penetrate.

And while the current volume of global fact checks suggests Ukraine-related misinformation is reaching a mass audience, First Draft's research indicated that, in some places, the war is "being used as an opportunity for anti-vaccine and anti-establishment groups to become homogenous in their views".

Those groups, the researchers noted, are pushing a lack of trust in the mainstream media and undermining governments supporting Ukraine, including Australia.

"First Draft has also observed that Russia has 'new' allies in the US on the right which makes it easy to launder their propaganda … which can easily spread to other countries and inspire local growth of such sentiment in online groups."

Other reporters and researchers, meanwhile, have pointed to TikTok as a source of Ukraine-related misinformation.

Fact checkers have been busy debunking Russian misinformation related to Ukraine, but that's not the only place it has come from - ABC News

 

 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The dead Russian soldiers are the least of Czar Putins worries. Its the fact the wounded will eventually return home and tell the Russian people it was not a "special military operation" limited to a couple of regions of the Ukraine.

People then are going to realize Czar Putin lied to them.

There is now no outcome which results in Czar Putin winning. 

Except Putin HAS succeeded in one war objective which nobody has mentioned at all anywhere.
Ukraine is Physically & Economically WRECKED. Third Putin Objective after CONTROL then NEUTRALIZE  which yes he won’t now get ! 

Now that “ success” has come at HUGE cost to Russia. Russian Reparations from Seized Assets will surely be used to rebuild Ukraine & Russias own economy destroyed by Sanctions by June. China will rebuild THAT I suspect.

[Fester]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Oops….  you just explained why the Ukrainian cities are getting attacked. Better roll that one back or it won’t fit with the Russian Nazis on a Holocaust against civilians narrative. And your estimated casualty ratio figures for the Ukraine forces are optimistic at best. 4 killed for every 1 wounded? Try at least 50/50 and a casualty means one less soldier be they dead or wounded. This is not the Alamo. 

Ukrainian cities are getting attacked by heavy weapons and missiles because the Russians are trying to use terror tactics as a means to gain the submission of the Ukrainian people. 

 

 

[Fester]

8 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Except Putin HAS succeeded in one war objective which nobody has mentioned at all anywhere.
Ukraine is Physically & Economically WRECKED. Third Putin Objective after CONTROL then NEUTRALIZE  which yes he won’t now get ! 

Now that “ success” has come at HUGE cost to Russia. Russian Reparations from Seized Assets will surely be used to rebuild Ukraine & Russias own economy destroyed by Sanctions by June. China will rebuild THAT I suspect.

I hope that you're wrong about most of this.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Except Putin HAS succeeded in one war objective which nobody has mentioned at all anywhere.
Ukraine is Physically & Economically WRECKED. Third Putin Objective after CONTROL then NEUTRALIZE  which yes he won’t now get ! 

Now that “ success” has come at HUGE cost to Russia. Russian Reparations from Seized Assets will surely be used to rebuild Ukraine & Russias own economy destroyed by Sanctions by June. China will rebuild THAT I suspect.

The west will pour money into the Ukraine after Czar Putin is either replaced or admits defeat. Either way he is stuffed.

Belarus will probably look on with envy as to how much money they get and their standards of living improve. They will want some of that for themselves. 

Czar Putin went all in with a pair of 2's and the west has called his bluff.

Its all gone wrong for him.

[Fanta]

23 minutes ago, Fester said:

Ukrainian cities are getting attacked by heavy weapons and missiles because the Russians are trying to use terror tactics as a means to gain the submission of the Ukrainian people. 

That clearly not true or there would be 100,000’s of dead civilians and no humanitarian corridors. Russia controls the skies. And Kyiv would be carpet bombed, slowly pounded into dust and eventual submission because that is the only place a submission/ surrender of Ukraine can come from. 

[Faz]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

That clearly not true or there would be 100,000’s of dead civilians and no humanitarian corridors.

The fact over 10 millions civilians have left their homes wouldn't have anything to do with that would it?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472

Had they stayed in their homes, your figure could be realistic.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

why do you reject the version that they are just waiting, while the rear stocks of weapons and materials are being destroyed?  

Or maybe such a task is not worth it at all?

Say what? If that was the case, why did Russia attack in the first place? Why not start the war by destroying all Ukraine’s supplies and weapons before sending in troops to begin with? There is only two logical reasons to pause an attack: running out of supplies yourself, or you lack the troops to continue. Stopping an attack only gives the enemy time to regroup, dig in and resupply, none of which are to your advantage. 

[vlad]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Just more predictable nonsense, evasion & deflection……

 

yep, i asked him if the Russian ship was sunk he failed to answer. Was it was reported on Russian news again no answer.

[vlad]

2 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

I answered you, I don't watch Russian TV.  this information was in the pro-Russian news Telegram channels.

Deflection.

[KRLMRX]

3 hours ago, Smithydog said:

You read a lot when a crisis is happening. For example, statements like this:

"When clarifying the developments unfolding, the Russian Defense Ministry reassured that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities, but are limited to surgically striking and incapacitating Ukrainian military infrastructure. There are no threats whatsoever to the civilian population."

Source is an article today on the website for Tass. https://tass.com/politics/1427373 

Satellite photos of the before and after surgical strikes not targeting a Ukraine City.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSasHJwWyMTlptZSD89NYBhvf97UezCI83Ng&usqp=CAU

Sure doesn't look like military infrastructure.

https://c.ndtvimg.com/2022-03/s2c722gk_ukraine-war-unian_120x90_24_March_22.jpg

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-kyiv-mariupol-under-attack-biden-visits-europe-10-latest-development-on-invasion-2839801

perhaps because Russia does not consider Mariupol to be Ukrainian territory. This is the territory of the DPR recognized by Russia.

[KRLMRX]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Which pro Russian telegram channels?

a lot of them. for example, such

https://t.me/rybar

 

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So if you dont watch Russian TV how do you claim to know Russian TV is telling the truth and the western media is lying?

I never said that. mainstream media broadcasts propaganda from both sides.

[KRLMRX]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Invasion Profile indicates Russians getting whacked around four to one with Ukraine fighting a guerilla war with effective ambushes of sitting duck armoured columns without air or land cover, then withdrawals to fortified urban centres to avoid getting caught in open field by aerial or land counter- attacks and now effectively counter attacking to encircle the Russian besiegers

Wikipedia : NATO high estimate is 15,000 Russian Army Dead. US high estimate is 4,000 Ukraine Army Dead. These high estimates seem much more realistic than the various low estimates;1300 Ukraine Army Dead ( Ukraine)  /2000 ( US) or 7,000 Russian Army Dead ( NATO).

Ukraine would perhaps have only few hundred prisoners / no deserters / one thousand wounded as homeland- defending force ?
 

Russia by contrast might easily have over 15,000 Wounded as the attacking force , 1 to 1 ratio with their Dead at least ? Prisoners / Deserters ? 5,000 ? Getting up to that 40,000 Russian casualties figure in msm ….. ?

with all due respect to the United States and NATO, they are one of the interested parties and their data cannot be considered correct

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, KRLMRX said:

with all due respect to the United States and NATO, they are one of the interested parties and their data cannot be considered correct

Western Data comes from accountable Western Intel so is certainly the best available. So where’s the data from Russian side ? Oh wait , not published & nobody would believe it anyway