News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[vlad]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

Because "NATO" isn't in a position to supply anything since it doesn't have anything to supply.

While NATO has troops designated to NATO units from member countries, it doesn't have stores full of spare "NATO kit" just lying around to give away to anyone else - all the prepo (pre-positioned stores) is pre-designated to units and ops.

Individual NATO countries can give things away, from helmets to fast jets, but in the short term NATO can't - it simply isn't set up to help supply and arm non-aligned countries and that has never been part of its remit.

Edit:

Sorry, I forgot to include the question of how do you supply a country with weapons and ammunition that's already at war without actually going into that country to deliver them.

You can't exactly send ammunition, weapons, vehicles and planes through the mail - as I said, it's far from as simple as it appears.

Sorry, Stonker the UK gave the Stinger anti-tank handheld weapon to Ukrainian troops and filmed them showing how to use them two weeks ago.

[Noble_Design]

10 minutes ago, vlad said:

Sorry, Stonker the UK gave the Stinger anti-tank handheld weapon to Ukrainian troops and filmed them showing how to use them two weeks ago.

Stinger anti tank? I thought Stinger is anti air?

[Stonker]

40 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Concession =not to expand NATO.
couldn’t mean anything else here….

But that was 30 years ago  - and at the time it wasn't a "concession" but a quid pro quo.

[Stonker]

44 minutes ago, vlad said:

Sorry, Stonker the UK gave the Stinger anti-tank handheld weapon to Ukrainian troops and filmed them showing how to use them two weeks ago.

I think you've missed my point, although you quoted me saying it.

NATO didn't give them to Ukraine, the UK did, before the conflict started.

... and they were actually NLAW's - a simple, relatively short range Light Anti-Tank Weapon that can be taught in a day or two.

 

[Fester]

31 minutes ago, Noble_Design said:

Stinger anti tank? I thought Stinger is anti air?

It is.

[23RD]

39 minutes ago, vlad said:

UK gave the Stinger anti-tank handheld weapon to Ukrainian troops and filmed them showing how to use them

Correction on that one Vlad they supplied NLAW & Javelin Anti-Tank missiles but your correct in saying  British Army Short Term Training Teams have given The Ukrainians Training in both Weapon Systems. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

I never said Ukrainian pilots would be flying them i said they are on standby if needed.

Sorry, I assumed that was what you meant as that's what the discussion was about, not NATO strengthening its defences.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

It is if you invade another country and kill their civilians.

Sorry, but under any law of armed conflict (Rome, Geneva, etc), no it's not apart from in very limited circumstances such as rounding civilians up and shooting them, or protected sites like hospitals.

The most basic rule is that they have to be non-combatants, which rules out anyone involved in combat regardless of whether they're military or not, so includes anyone making a molotov cocktail / petrol bomb for example - and it also allows for collateral damage as long as it's not excessive, which generally means around ten civilians are acceptable for every combatant.

It could be murder, if the country's laws are still valid (largely depending on who wins), but it wouldn't be a war crime - as I said, arguably it should be but it isn't.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Thanks. See now that EU being useful here. Question is why haven’t these newer NATO country phased Russian gear by now in favor of  Western planes ? How can Russian planes be operated within NATO Command ? 

Excellent question. From what I understand there is a lot of command and control issues with left over Soviet planes (and equipment in general). Still planes are expensive and the Mig29 is still pretty good. You wouldn't want to get rid of it until you can afford the replacement. I think it's only three countries that still have them in use: Poland, Bulgaria, and Slovakia (don't quote me on that). Poland is retiring the last couple of dozen Mig29s in 2024, they are just waiting for their F-35s to show up. Also they had already replaced about 2/3s of their Soviet fighters with F-16s back in 2002. Both Bulgaria and Slovakia still have all Soviet planes in their inventory. However both have F-16s on order as replacements (yes they still make F-16s).  

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Noble_Design said:

Stinger anti tank? I thought Stinger is anti air?

As has been said by others, Stinger is anti-air, supplied by a number of countries.

While the UK supplied NLAW light anti tank weapons the Ukraine's had Javelin (a longer range anti tank weapon) for at least four years, and while the UK didn't supply any the US has, as has Estonia as well as Latvia and Lithuania.

The problem is obviously as soon as you supply anything new it needs a training package to go with it and the more complicated the system the longer the training required and the maintenance - with the ultimate almost certainly being something like Typhoon where there's just no way the time and cost could be justified against, say, Mig 29's.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Thanks. See now that EU being useful here. Question is why haven’t these newer NATO country phased Russian gear by now in favor of  Western planes ? How can Russian planes be operated within NATO Command ? 

We're drifting off topic, but why shouldn't they be - there's far less commonality between NATO countries than other alliances on pretty much everything from small arms to tanks to planes via everything in between.

'Soviet' equipment's far cheaper and far easier to maintain and plenty of it's still available new manufactured elsewhere, for example in Poland from helicopters (which the US has bought plenty of for others) to planes and armoured vehicles.

For the cost of one Euro fighter Typhoon you could buy at least a dozen new Mig 29's or thirty or more fully re-conditioned ones.  

[HiuMak]

Does anyone see or hear any advance warfare? Any drones or bots or hacks on military systems going to war? Looks very conventional fighting to me.

[Smithydog]

11 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Proofs of what?  

Azov Battalion is part of the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.

 The official emblem of the battalion is the Wolf Hook (symbol of the Waffen SS).  

In Russia, there is no department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs with the emblem of Nazi Germany, but there are underground neo-Nazi organizations.

 These are facts that you can easily verify. It doesn't matter who is voicing these facts.

Therein lies the problem. What many misunderstand is that facts are facts but are then manipulated to tell a false narrative, as what your "independent journalist" did. You are believing a false narrative made up by an ex-spymaster in Putin. By doing you, like so many people lose sight of their objectivity. 

Why is Putin so set on de-nazifing a country where so many died at their hands? Why is he attacking the rest of Ukraine when this group operate only in those independent states? Why didn't he just occupy that territory as "peacekeepers"?

The reason is simple. The narrative he is pitching, which you seem to support as does your "independent journalist", is not about the facts of this. He simply wants to expand his influence. The arguments of self-defence etc are all falsehoods, when missiles can just fly across the country he is invading to hit targets in Russia if needed.

It is why so many countries are against this. Even Switzerland has announced sanctions against him!

 

[Thaidup]

47 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

Therein lies the problem. What many misunderstand is that facts are facts but are then manipulated to tell a false narrative, as what your "independent journalist" did. You are believing a false narrative made up by an ex-spymaster in Putin. By doing you, like so many people lose sight of their objectivity. 

Why is Putin so set on de-nazifing a country where so many died at their hands? Why is he attacking the rest of Ukraine when this group operate only in those independent states? Why didn't he just occupy that territory as "peacekeepers"?

The reason is simple. The narrative he is pitching, which you seem to support as does your "independent journalist", is not about the facts of this. He simply wants to expand his influence. The arguments of self-defence etc are all falsehoods, when missiles can just fly across the country he is invading to hit targets in Russia if needed.

It is why so many countries are against this. Even Switzerland has announced sanctions against him!

And this is from Britannica, not some narrative pitching journalist.

In the occupied territories, the Nazis sought to implement their “racial” policies. In the fall of 1941 began the mass killings of Jews that continued through 1944. An estimated 1.5 million Ukrainian Jews perished, and over 800,000 were displaced to the east; at Baby Yar (Ukrainian: Babyn Yar) in Kyiv, nearly 34,000 were killed in just the first two days of massacre in the city. The Nazis were aided at times by auxiliary forces recruited from the local population. (See also Holocaust: The Einsatzgruppen.)

 

https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/The-Nazi-occupation-of-Soviet-Ukraine

Edited March 1, 2022 by Thaidup

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Therein lies the problem. What many misunderstand is that facts are facts but are then manipulated to tell a false narrative, as what your "independent journalist" did. You are believing a false narrative made up by an ex-spymaster in Putin. By doing you, like so many people lose sight of their objectivity. 

Why is Putin so set on de-nazifing a country where so many died at their hands? Why is he attacking the rest of Ukraine when this group operate only in those independent states? Why didn't he just occupy that territory as "peacekeepers"?

The reason is simple. The narrative he is pitching, which you seem to support as does your "independent journalist", is not about the facts of this. He simply wants to expand his influence. The arguments of self-defence etc are all falsehoods, when missiles can just fly across the country he is invading to hit targets in Russia if needed.

It is why so many countries are against this. Even Switzerland has announced sanctions against him!

Above, I posted links to the English-language wiki and the division's site. For any reasonable person, this is enough to agree that this is true.

But the propagandists here clung to the personality of one journalist (you don't like him? He doesn't like you either) and this is how they argue the falsity of the statements. I sent the video of this journalist because there is not much alternative information in English.

[Noble_Design]

8 hours ago, Stonker said:

The problem is obviously as soon as you supply anything new it needs a training package to go with it and the more complicated the system the longer the training required and the maintenance - with the ultimate almost certainly being something like Typhoon where there's just no way the time and cost could be justified against, say, Mig 29's.

I think that can be solved or at least mitigated by using the latest flight simulators to train Ukrainian pilots without even needing the actual planes themselves. I for one after spending a few hours honing my skills say on the Digital Combat Simulator and Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown feel like I am ready to pilot a real F-35 Lightning II and take off vertically from a swaying aircraft carrier. I'm sure piloting a Typhoon wouldn't be that hard.

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Thaidup said:

That's like asking do Jews hold any political power in the USA? Some politicians are outspokenly Nazi in Ukraine, just look it up and that 305 battallion is Nazi as it comes, just look it up.

Im not saying Putin is right IM just not falling for the narrative like when USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

Imagine there are numerous elected Jewish Politicians at all levels in USA.

Subject is influential nazism in Ukraine though.

Let the Nazis speak out so they can be identified, ignored & dismissed.

Any Military Unit with significant anti democratic ethics should be disbanded 

My question as to the status of these nazi politicians was not answered. 

[Alavan]

13 hours ago, Stardust said:

I guess in the Putin news they will already talk about the russian express card covert by crypto

I watched russians already that tried to get money from the atms and it didn't work and you swaw them on their phones to call their banks. Lucky the ones who have a foreign bank or a Thai bank account.

A Belgian professional basketplayer for the moment playing in the Russian competition said she did her shopping and her cards didn’t work anymore.

[Noble_Design]

4 hours ago, HiuMak said:

Does anyone see or hear any advance warfare? Any drones or bots or hacks on military systems going to war? Looks very conventional fighting to me.

Yes the Ukrainian air force is using Turkish made TB2 drones to attack Russian forces. I wish I could provide you the link to the video but I can't since it's against this forum rules. However you can search for videos of drone strikes at the Twitter of @ArmedForcesUkr

One thing that perplexes me is why the Russians would line up their hardwares like sitting ducks for a drone strike or gun ship run similar to how the Iraqis lined up to be destroyed at the Highway of Death

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Noble_Design said:

I think that can be solved or at least mitigated by using the latest flight simulators to train Ukrainian pilots without even needing the actual planes themselves. I for one after spending a few hours honing my skills say on the Digital Combat Simulator and Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown feel like I am ready to pilot a real F-35 Lightning II and take off vertically from a swaying aircraft carrier. I'm sure piloting a Typhoon wouldn't be that hard.

Your fun post somehow reminds me of US helicopter pilots flying Harrier’s into hillsides……

[Thaidup]

The last time the USA went all out arming a country against Russia they went back 20 years later and then spent 20 years thousands of lives and trillions of taxpayer dollars fighting what they created. And left 80 Billion dollars worth of war material for them.

Politicians have very short memories.

[Faz]

7 minutes ago, Alavan said:

A Belgian professional basketplayer for the moment playing in the Russian competition said she did her shopping and her cards didn’t work anymore.

Note from Moderators

Members are reminded that Forum Guidelines require facts to be supported. In this time, when disinformation or "propaganda" is likely, Moderators are closely watching posts discussing the situation in Ukraine. When stating or inferring facts, please include a URL link for verification. Failure to do so may result in your post being removed from view.

Thanks Moderator

[Noble_Design]

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Your fun post somehow reminds me of US helicopter pilots flying Harrier’s into hillsides……

Well at least they flew into hillsides and not houses or buildings. That's not too bad.

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Noble_Design said:

Yes the Ukrainian air force is using Turkish made TB2 drones to attack Russian forces. I wish I could provide you the link to the video but I can't since it's against this forum rules. However you can search for videos of drone strikes at the Twitter of @ArmedForcesUkr

One thing that perplexes me is why the Russians would line up their hardwares like sitting ducks for a drone strike or gun ship run similar to how the Iraqis lined up to be destroyed at the Highway of Death

Comprehensive Daily Mail Online article yesterday on this with photos & video footage. No air cover for convoy?

Underestimated Ukrainian Military from first day. Probably no idea about those drones? 

[Stardust]

14 minutes ago, Alavan said:

A Belgian professional basketplayer for the moment playing in the Russian competition said she did her shopping and her cards didn’t work anymore.

Yes and shows that a lot of posters here doesn't understand the swift or the stages of the sanctions.