News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No, I read it but I just can't understand where you get this from about NATO / NATO countries only being able or allowed to supply "defensive"  weapons. 

It's just complete nonsense as effectively no such distinction's possible.

You’re the expert. Let’s just see what NATO actually supply then besides ANTI Tank & ANTI Aircraft Weapons. 
No PLANES, TANKS or ARTY so far. Maybe not required……

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Killing innocent civilians and bombing non military residential areas aren't war crimes.

Arguably they should be, but they're not.

Noted blimey…..

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I agree rt news are the greatest comedy clown show . Thats why they kicked them out from eu countries.

Watching it right now. Three talking Putin-puppet heads saying “ operation” only to “demilitarize & denazify” Ukraine

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You’re the expert. Let’s just see what NATO actually supply then besides ANTI Tank & ANTI Aircraft Weapons. 
No PLANES, TANKS or ARTY so far. Maybe not required……

Eu von der Leyen decided to deliver european fighter jets to Ukraine. This decions are made from the Eu and countries it is not regulated by the Nato. But for sure they they coordinate such things with the Nato.

[oldschooler]

Just now, Stardust said:

Eu von der Leyen decided to deliver european fighter jets to Ukraine. This decions are made from the Eu and countries it is not regulated by the Nato. But for sure they they coordinate such things with the Nato.

EU ? Believe it when DONE

[Rookiescot]

44 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I won't spoon feed you history... do your own due diligence and come up with your own conclusions. 

Ah so you just made that up.

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

EU ? Believe it when DONE

Its in the news already. In Thailand they have also the DW " deutsche welle" in a english version in the tv. By the way the eu send already weapons for 500 million euros a few days ago so not only eu countries the Eu bythemselv, too.

[Freeduhdumb]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah so you just made that up.

Thanks for the clarification. 

ah!! Lol. Yep made it ALL up. You know how hard and how much time it would be to make all that up? Do your own research friend. 

[Stonker]

38 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Obviously “NATO” here is shorthand for “NATO Countries” ! We are not all military experts to master such distinctions

Sorry, but while that may be what you mean 'NATO' and 'NATO countries' are absolutely NOT the same thing however much a lot of people would like them to be.

A lot of Putin's rhetoric and claims about NATO promising no eastward expansion, for example, stems from what the then Secretary General of NATO said back in 1990 about guaranteeing Russian security and no eastward NATO expansion (very much not with any caveats about East Germany), but that's been invalidated (at least by the NATO side) on the grounds that no national leaders agreed to it and so it wasn't within his remit.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/opinions_23732.htm

[KRLMRX]

48 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by KRLMRX

[KRLMRX]

51 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

So nobody but pedantic fools care what Reagan may have promised Gorbachev on NATO when the new NATO countries were under Russian occupationAll Things Change!

So nobody but pedantic fools care what Putin may have promised Biden on Ucraine when the new DPR and LPR countries were under Ucranian occupationAll Things Change!

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

ah!! Lol. Yep made it ALL up. You know how hard and how much time it would be to make all that up? Do your own research friend. 

Then provide links to back your assertions. 

[Stardust]

10 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but while that may be what you mean 'NATO' and 'NATO countries' are absolutely NOT the same thing however much a lot of people would like them to be.

A lot of Putin's rhetoric and claims about NATO promising no eastward expansion, for example, stems from what the then Secretary General of NATO said back in 1990 about guaranteeing Russian security and no eastward NATO expansion (very much not with any caveats about East Germany), but that's been invalidated (at least by the NATO side) on the grounds that no national leaders agreed to it and so it wasn't within his remit.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/opinions_23732.htm

I guess a lot dont know the every country decide by themself which alliances they make. Countries can apply to be a member but Nato not force any country to be a Nato member. Same with the EU. Such agreements never were made because it would impossible because it is in the Nato rules the souverignity of all countries and decide for themself. It is just a legend from Putin that such agreements existed. It never existed and will never exist.

[Herman]

What about Russians in Thailand. Now that swift has blocked some Russian banks . Will these Russians be able to use their credit card ?

 

[KRLMRX]

35 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

But at this stage you seem to lack substantial proof to substantiate your arguments

Proofs of what?  

Azov Battalion is part of the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.

 The official emblem of the battalion is the Wolf Hook (symbol of the Waffen SS).  

In Russia, there is no department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs with the emblem of Nazi Germany, but there are underground neo-Nazi organizations.

 These are facts that you can easily verify. It doesn't matter who is voicing these facts.

[Stonker]

10 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

ah!! Lol. Yep made it ALL up. You know how hard and how much time it would be to make all that up? Do your own research friend. 

 

1 hour ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I won't spoon feed you history... do your own due diligence and come up with your own conclusions. 

I'm not trying to excuse the inexcusable but, as I tried to point out in another thread,  objectively Russia was given plenty of assurances by both the NATO Secretary General and verbally in minuted meetings from pretty much all leading Western and European leaders for several years that there would be no NATO expansion beyond Germany, leaving buffer states between Russia (the Warsaw Pact as was) and NATO.

If you read the first link in full, for example, the Secretary General is absolutely clear that he's not just talking about Germany and unification as the Western media invariably claim but about Europe generally, east and west, and he spells that out beyond any possible doubt.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/opinions_23732.htm

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Sure, Russian propaganda is laughably amateur to the west, but the west is no better.

That doesn't excuse or justify the invasion in any way, but the west isn't blameless here and if the buffer states had remained non-aligned, even if only on paper, then I doubt any of this would or could have happened.

[Stonker]

41 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

EU ? Believe it when DONE

Agreed - the whole idea of sending 'European fighter jets' to Ukraine for them to defend themselves with is farcical - they have no-one capable of flying or maintaining and servicing them.

Mig 29's and Su 25's, yes, but Typhoons / 'European fighter jets' ? Absolutely not.

[Stonker]

15 minutes ago, Stardust said:

It is just a legend from Putin that such agreements existed. It never existed and will never exist.

I've given the links - they're about as definitive as they come.

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Agreed - the whole idea of sending 'European fighter jets' to Ukraine for them to defend themselves with is farcical - they have no-one capable of flying or maintaining and servicing them.

Mig 29's and Su 25's, yes, but Typhoons / 'European fighter jets' ? Absolutely not.

Watch the news. And if you are in Thailand you can get the german news over the dw in the tv. They have a english version of it also in english in Thailand. Be sure they know how to do it the same they could advice (German Army) the kurdish fighers in weapon systems against the isis.

[Noble_Design]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

Watch the news. And if you are in Thailand you can get the german news over the dw in the tv. They have a english version of it also in english in Thailand. Be sure they know how to do it the same they could advice (German Army) the kurdish fighers in weapon systems against the isis.

Did they also provide the F-22 Raptor & F-35 Lightning to Ukraine? 

[Stardust]

25 minutes ago, Herman said:

What about Russians in Thailand. Now that swift has blocked some Russian banks . Will these Russians be able to use their credit card ?

I guess in the Putin news they will already talk about the russian express card covert by crypto

I watched russians already that tried to get money from the atms and it didn't work and you swaw them on their phones to call their banks. Lucky the ones who have a foreign bank or a Thai bank account.

[Stonker]

13 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Be sure they know how to do it the same they could advice (German Army) the kurdish fighers in weapon systems against the isis.

Hardly "the same" as Germany didn't supply the Kurds with Eurofighters.

...and while I don't know about German involvement much of the Kurdish training to combat ISIS was done on the ground.

That isn't an option in Ukraine.

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Hardly "the same" as Germany didn't supply the Kurds with Eurofighters.

...and while I don't know about German involvement much of the Kurdish training to combat ISIS was done on the ground.

That isn't an option in Ukraine.

Sure you know nothing about germany I not doubt it and for sure the german army supported them. For sure you are by way not my source of anything and my source is germany and by my self served. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/WyWq77LLFhVMoYQM7

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-extends-bundeswehr-mission-in-iraq/a-60400784

As I know you not understand German or Thai. For sure you not know about it!

[EdwardV]

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Not EU, NATO. NATO Fighters are for NATO Airspace ONLY. 
Ukrainians not trained / authorized for Western Fighters.

NATO Planes / Pilots in Ukraine Airspace risks Contact against Russian Forces. CANT Happen !

That isn't correct. As pointed out by others, NATO doesn't have any equipment. It all belongs to individual nations. A Mig29 donated to Ukraine will have belonged to Poland (or some other country). The difference in this case is the EU has a $450M Euro fund to supply countries at war with supplies. Basically they reimburse member nations for the donations, and in this specific case they said jet fighters qualify. So if Poland wishes to donate a Mig29 to Ukraine, the EU will give them some money to offset the cost. These are not NATO fighters, nor pilots, it has nothing to do with NATO. It's an EU program that's existed before this particular war. Any plane at that point will belong to Ukraine and be flow by Ukrainian pilots. 

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Sure you know nothing about germany I not doubt it and for sure the german army supported them. For sure you are by way not my source of anything and my source is germany and by my self served. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/WyWq77LLFhVMoYQM7

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-extends-bundeswehr-mission-in-iraq/a-60400784

As I know you not understand German or Thai. For sure you not know about it!

So the bundeswehr are going to have a training mission in Ukraine ... and they'll teach them to fly Eurofighters there ...

I see ... good timing ...