News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[oldschooler]

12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

But NATO isn't deploying so WTF are you talking about?

It's supplying equipment - or rather individual countries are, although that's a distinction that's pretty much a technicality now.

You didn’t properly read my 2nd sentence. although NATO IS deploying closer to Ukraine border, within NATO lands. NATO of course supplying equipment, materials, training, Intel…… & Economic Sanctions and Political Support.

[Tim_Melb]

34 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

old argument. then why is the swastika banned in modern Germany, because it is a symbol of the ancient Aryans, long before Hitler?

The swastika is banned in Germany because of its hijacking by Hitler and his Nazis and its connection to the atrocities they committed we all know that. It's use as the lighting wheel may have been lost forever as a result. Whether you like it or not the pagan pre-Christian beliefs of Scandinavian and Germanic peoples still exist across Iceland, Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and the Slavic Countries in both large and small numbers varying on the Nation. There are also people who follow Asatru (new age Norse) beliefs in North America and across the Western world. The followers of these beliefs are mostly not racists or Nazis your argument is that since most of this traditional symbolism was stolen by Hitler and his Nazis that it should forever be regarded as inherently racist and evil. I disagree. Buddhism the and Hinduism both also make use of the lightning wheel and generally this is accepted. Let's be realistic you see it painted on cars trucks and buildings in Thailand. Yet you say it's ok in Asia but not ok in Slavic and Scandinavian and Slavic countries. 

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Putin clearly a War Criminal. Add “Murdering Civilians” & “ Bombing Non- Military Residential Areas@. Hague IC Court will “want a word” soon .
Ukraine could issue a $10 million DOA Bounty.Especially if it’s true that Putin has sent 400 Russian Wagner Tier 1 Operators into Kyiv to kill 23 top Ukrainians….

Russian bounty program - Wikipedia

[KRLMRX]

3 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

The swastika is banned in Germany because of its hijacking by Hitler and his Nazis and its connection to the atrocities they committed

right.  and you will not mind that these symbols should be banned in Ukraine, or do you think that there were fewer atrocities on its soil than in Germany?

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

right.  and you will not mind that these symbols should be banned in Ukraine, or do you think that there were fewer atrocities on its soil than in Germany?

Which atrocities? The ones committed by Germans or the ones committed by Russians?

[Chatogaster]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

yesterday's performance in the Bundestag. in German and English I can't find. Russian media replicate this quote. This is very bad in a country where 26 million people died from the Nazis. I hope this is a translation error and Scholz will explain everything today.

 

It's not a translation error but a huge distortion into the realm of lies of what was actually said. 

I just viewed the entire Bundestag speech by Olaf Scholz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_DMcayCtnA) and I think I have found the only part of the speech that may have been twisted into the "quote" (not) you referred to.

@16:20 - 17:00, Scholz made it clear that this all about Putin, not the people of Russia. Scholz then explains that the differentiation between Putin and Russia is important as Germany holds the historical reconciliation between Germany and Russia in high esteem, but has the utmost disrespect for Putin's current actions.
 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Chatogaster
spelling

[Faraday]

Ok, I see Swastikas are being discussed.

It's understandably a very emotive subject, so please make sure that everyone keeps their cool.

Thank you.

 

Moderator

[oldschooler]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Russian bounty program - Wikipedia

Yes. Interesting but Not Proven. CIA gave “ mid to low confidence” in scheme existence.Entirely Credible & Consistent though …..  

Watching RT now for Entertainment. RT call this Invasion a “ Special Operation “ ! Some lawyer saying “NATO Did Everything to Provoke Russia” and that weapons sent to Ukraine were “to kill Russians for USA not for Independence”. Calling Ukraine weapons issue to civilians”unlawful” resulting only in “ gangs of looters in Kyiv” . Hilarious ! 

[KRLMRX]

17 minutes ago, Chatogaster said:

It's not a translation error but a huge distortion into the realm of lies of what was actually said. 

I just viewed the entire Bundestag speech by Olaf Scholz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_DMcayCtnA) and I think I have found the only part of the speech that may have been twisted into the "quote" (not) you referred to.

@16:20 - 17:00, Scholz made it clear that this all about Putin, not the people of Russia. Scholz then explains that the differentiation between Putin and Russia is important as Germany holds the historical reconciliation between Germany and Russia in high esteem, but has the utmost disrespect for Putin's current actions.
 

So, was the phrase "He (Putin) liberated Germany from historical guilt" and if so, what was meant?

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

None. even cars can be used as offensive weapons or cutlery but it’s not their obvious design purpose. That cannot be said about jet fighters….
 
Didn’t say Stonker incorrect ..

Supplying ANY Fighter Planes will gift Putin the PR opportunity to say Offensive Weapons being supplied by NATO … Putin would then undoubtedly escalate somehow.  

Seems to be very little or no jet attack in play yet, only transports,helis & drones….. ?

We are already supplieng weapons, anti aircraft, anti tank etc. The Eu will supply fighter jets decided today and 500 million euro for other weapon systems. Germany supplied stinger rockets and will give weapon supply for 1 billion euro. Some should watch the German news not the the rt news . After Putins Invasion all changed. Scholz decide another 100 billion euro for the Bunderswehr Army this year extra and if some watched the parlament sunday session they will make the germany army the biggest and best equipment Army of Europe and starting now. Europe us together as never before in the history and any aggression from Putin will make them bigger . European nato countries already over 5 million troops compare to 1,5 million russian and ten times more aircraft , warships etc than Russia. This is without the troops of non nato european countries like Sweden, Finnland etc. but you can count them as allies and then you can top up with Non european Nato members like USA, Canada etc. They will now top up their armies and are the biggest power in the world and united.

[Freeduhdumb]

I think we can now say the Ukrainian coup de tat, regime change operation back in 2014 has ultimately failed... ✌

[Freeduhdumb]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Please link to any agreement by NATO not to "advance eastward". 

In what way did the West fail to implement the Minsk II agreements?

I won't spoon feed you history... do your own due diligence and come up with your own conclusions. 

[oldschooler]

Issue was whether NATO would yet supply Offensive Weapons. NATO ( UK) supplied Defensive Weapons you described even before the Invasion. Germany reaction now great although weeks late……

NATO already unbeatable in quantity & quality. Russia disintegrating demographically with fast- falling birth rates & failing economy.  

What sane non- elite Russian Female wants to bring her child into that giant poverty stricken prison. So where will the conscript soldiers come from in 40-50 years. Country of Old Men soon… 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Right so what are NATO waiting for exactly ? Ukrainian Fighter Losses perhaps, I would get that but still why wait to supply reserve fighters ? Five Day Old Invasion Now with Russians preparing to enter the major cities …..

Because "NATO" isn't in a position to supply anything since it doesn't have anything to supply.

While NATO has troops designated to NATO units from member countries, it doesn't have stores full of spare "NATO kit" just lying around to give away to anyone else - all the prepo (pre-positioned stores) is pre-designated to units and ops.

Individual NATO countries can give things away, from helmets to fast jets, but in the short term NATO can't - it simply isn't set up to help supply and arm non-aligned countries and that has never been part of its remit.

Edit:

Sorry, I forgot to include the question of how do you supply a country with weapons and ammunition that's already at war without actually going into that country to deliver them.

You can't exactly send ammunition, weapons, vehicles and planes through the mail - as I said, it's far from as simple as it appears.

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I think we can now say the Ukrainian coup de tat, regime change operation back in 2014 has ultimately failed... ✌

Yes people who are brainwashed would believe anything from rt news or putin channels . People who watch european news know Russia is done economicly and ruble in free fall, their banks bankrupt and in no way to finance any war or have the strength or equipment abd tech capibilty like europe. Troops european nato countries without non nato europeancountries over 5 million compare to Russia 1,5 million. Ten times mor jets bombers, ships submarines etc etc. But you can add sweden, finnland etc ,too plus add Nato members not from europe like USA, Canada etc. Germany just add another 100 billion euro for their army for this year. Sure Putin failed and Russia is done

[Stardust]

Just now, Stonker said:

Because "NATO" isn't in a position to supply anything since it doesn't have anything to supply.

While NATO has troops designated to NATO units from member countries, it doesn't have stores full of spare "NATO kit" just lying around to give away to anyone else - all the prepo (pre-positioned stores) is pre-designated to units and ops.

Individual NATO countries can give things away, from helmets to fast jets, but in the short term NATO can't - it simply isn't set up to help supply and arm non-aligned countries and that has never been part of its remit.

Germany supplied today stinger rocket systems. I guess you got your infos from rt news. Watch german tagesschau and read what is the reality. Europe can deliver now what they want and are souvereign countries and Germany decide every weapon supply on their parlament! 

[Freeduhdumb]

5 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Yes people who are brainwashed would believe anything from rt news or putin channels . People who watch european news know Russia is done economicly and ruble in free fall, their banks bankrupt and in no way to finance any war or have the strength or equipment abd tech capibilty like europe. Troops european nato countries without non nato europeancountries over 5 million compare to Russia 1,5 million. Ten times mor jets bombers, ships submarines etc etc. But you can add sweden, finnland etc ,too plus add Nato members not from europe like USA, Canada etc. Germany just add another 100 billion euro for their army for this year. Sure Putin failed and Russia is done

The word blithering comes to mind here... lol. 

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

I won't spoon feed you history... do your own due diligence and come up with your own conclusions. 

NATO DID write in 2008 that Ukraine WILL join NATO but of course “will” never meet the all- important Terms. Like NOT: being incredibly Corrupt ; controlling your own lands & borders; being Vetoed by any single NATO member ! 

Be aware that NO country has ever fully complied with Treaties or Promises when NOT in their interest !  

So nobody but pedantic fools care what Reagan may have promised Gorbachev on NATO when the new NATO countries were under Russian occupationAll Things Change!

[oldschooler]

7 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Because "NATO" isn't in a position to supply anything since it doesn't have anything to supply.

While NATO has troops designated to NATO units from member countries, it doesn't have stores full of spare "NATO kit" just lying around to give away to anyone else - all the prepo (pre-positioned stores) is pre-designated to units and ops.

Individual NATO countries can give things away, from helmets to fast jets, but in the short term NATO can't - it simply isn't set up to help supply and arm non-aligned countries and that has never been part of its remit.

Obviously “NATO” here is shorthand for “NATO Countries” ! We are not all military experts to master such distinctions

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Tim_Melb said:

The swastika is banned in Germany because of its hijacking by Hitler and his Nazis and its connection to the atrocities they committed we all know that. It's use as the lighting wheel may have been lost forever as a result. Whether you like it or not the pagan pre-Christian beliefs of Scandinavian and Germanic peoples still exist across Iceland, Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and the Slavic Countries in both large and small numbers varying on the Nation. There are also people who follow Asatru (new age Norse) beliefs in North America and across the Western world. The followers of these beliefs are mostly not racists or Nazis your argument is that since most of this traditional symbolism was stolen by Hitler and his Nazis that it should forever be regarded as inherently racist and evil. I disagree. Buddhism the and Hinduism both also make use of the lightning wheel and generally this is accepted. Let's be realistic you see it painted on cars trucks and buildings in Thailand. Yet you say it's ok in Asia but not ok in Slavic and Scandinavian and Slavic countries. 

I'd suggest "it's ok in Asia" because it doesn't have any other meaning in Asia, while in "Scandinavian and Slavic countries" it all too clearly does.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

[oldschooler]

12 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Germany supplied today stinger rocket systems. I guess you got your infos from rt news. Watch german tagesschau and read what is the reality. Europe can deliver now what they want and are souvereign countries and Germany decide every weapon supply on their parlament! 

Decided Late compared to UK … just like Covid Vax

You shouldn’t knock RT I watch it all the time…. Great Comedy Clown Show

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

You didn’t properly read my 2nd sentence. although NATO IS deploying closer to Ukraine border, within NATO lands. NATO of course supplying equipment, materials, training, Intel…… & Economic Sanctions and Political Support.

No, I read it but I just can't understand where you get this from about NATO / NATO countries only being able or allowed to supply "defensive"  weapons. 

It's just complete nonsense as effectively no such distinction's possible.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Putin clearly a War Criminal. Add “Murdering Civilians” & “ Bombing Non- Military Residential Areas@. Hague IC Court will “want a word” soon .
Ukraine could issue a $10 million DOA Bounty.Especially if it’s true that Putin has sent 400 Russian Wagner Tier 1 Operators into Kyiv to kill 23 top Ukrainians….

Killing innocent civilians and bombing non military residential areas aren't war crimes.

Arguably they should be, but they're not.

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Decided Late compared to UK … just like Covid Vax

You shouldn’t knock RT I watch it all the time…. Great Comedy Clown Show

I agree rt news are the greatest comedy clown show . Thats why they kicked them out from eu countries.

[Smithydog]

2 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

do you really not understand the difference between underground neo-Nazis and an organization that is part of the structure of state power?

Actually, I understand a lot more than you seem to give me credit for. Especially around disinformation and propaganda.

But at this stage you seem to lack substantial proof to substantiate your arguments. There are plenty of articles describing alternative opinions and the roles of neo-nazis in the Ukraine rather than a seemingly biased  "independent journalist" reported to have even been awarded a medal by the Russians!

 

https://www.stopfake.org/en/british-citizen-exposed-as-a-tool-of-russia-s-fsb/