News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[Bifrost]

28 minutes ago, vlad said:

This Clown as you describe him has just banned Aeroflot from flying into the UK and made sure no money is invested in UK Banks.

Boris Johnson is not a cown he is a very intilligent man and quite outspoken I was so released when I heard hees speech on TV --   and I man ot british ,  but UK  is a very good friend to us here in Denmark...

[Mudshark]

10 hours ago, Poolie said:

Kept his large nose out of it.

 Joe Biden has been the driving force proposing the Ukraine join NATO and pushing this crisis? Fah. I have no idea what RT News claims, nor would I believe their propaganda.  

This is a war of choice for Vlad. He could have spiked the NATO talk diplomatically. He wanted a war. He Dreams of the Russian/Soviet Empire he grew up in. Funny thing, He has now revitalized NATO, Eastern Europe will again be an armed camp, like it has not since the 80's. Vlad will have to maintain a big occupation force in the Ukraine too. That is  assuming he wins. Heavy fighting is going on. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Mudshark

[EdwardV]

5 hours ago, dj230 said:

Just read Russia is going after Chernobyl nuclear power plant, wonder if this changes things, im not a military person or history person

Won't change a thing and it only make sense. Russia's intention is to take over the entire country and install a new government. Therefore they need to take possession of the entire country including the parts no one else wants.  

[stuhan]

I think the only solution is if his generals who are afraid of him remove him from power then pull back the military forces from Ukraine, apologise for his actions and restore peace again by diplomatic talks. Nobody will really win a full blown war between N.A.T.O and russia if the nukes start flying as will probably happen in  Putins own words (anyone interfering with russia will see retaliation like they have never seen before) now that sounds like a nuke attack on all  countries who have applied sanctions or bad mouthed his actions. This man has completly lost his roubles, he is a mirror image of hitlers move on Poland that started the deadliest world war the world has ever seen, and he has the cheek to attack a country, threaten others and destroy the lives of millions of peacefull lives, also damaging his own people who as i see this morning are demonstrating against his actions of war on the Ukraine, He needs to be removed from power, i just hope someone has the guts to do it before its to late. The man has become a bully, a maniac, a war hungry madman who threatens mankind and must be stopped. As others have said including myself sanctions are not enough and what sanctions we are applying are not being implimented fast enough. N.A.T.O needs to face up to the fact that he may well proceed with his threats. We need to help the Ukraine with full military support even if the Ukraine is not yet a member of  N.A.T.O  it cannot just sit back and see a country ripped apart by this madman killing innocent people including children, we have to commit to halt his destuction, if we dont he will want more to revive his country to its former state at any cost.My deepest sympathy is with the people of the Ukraine, i prey for your safety, for your future, and for your people.

[Sandbar]

Thousands of Russians citizens are walking through the streets in protest against Putin's invasion on Ukraine.

Apparently hundreds have already been arrested as is the case for any protests held in defiance of the regime. 

He also is fixing the election process to ensure he will be leader for many many years to come....something the world and the Russian's themselves can't except. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TopDeadSenter]

3 hours ago, vlad said:

This Clown as you describe him has just banned Aeroflot from flying into the UK and made sure no money is invested in UK Banks.

When the likes of Shell and BP have their shares suspended for their involvement in owning Russian energy assets(business and banking and financial dealings with Russia are banned under sanctions) then I will believe sanctions are having an effect, until then it's just PR and window dressing.

[HiuMak]

Zelensky and his country is left to fight alone.....

[Freeduhdumb]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Thats the opinion of one clown. How is that evidence?

Isn't it interesting how arming rebels and occupying territory as a pretext to invade and topple governments is only bad when Russia does it. When NATO does exactly the same thing, with disastrous consequences, it’s virtuous and noble.

[Chaimai]

I have not checked the facts on this Facebook post, but it makes for interesting reading:-

 

 

 

Reph Bangsil

“For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “

This is why Ukraine matters.


It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

 

 

[AussieBob]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So if a group controlled a small region of somewhere like NSW you would be happy to see the whole of NSW handed over to them by a foreign nation? 

There has been a few ignorant statements made by members to anyone like me that dares suggest that they understand the reasons WHY Russia invaded Ukraine - this is another one.  I will answer them all with the same reply:

I understood WHY Russia invade the self-declared independent States - that does not mean I support it.

I never have and never will support Russia invading all of Ukraine - but I do understand WHY.

IMO NATO is the main cause of this occurring.

If you push a Communist Dictator like Putin too hard and too far, it is mainly your fault if he eventually reacts and hits back. My question is - did NATO deliberately force Putin to take this action, or did they think he was only bluffing and would never actually invade despite publicly declaring he would in 2016, if Ukraine and NATO continued down the path they were taking.

Only an idiot would expect Russia to stand by and allow NATO to place missiles in Ukraine on its border and do nothing because it is 'right'. As I said a long time ago - well before the current events - this stand off was like the Bay of Pigs when Kennedy demanded USSR remove its nukes from Cuba or a war would happen. 

Putin has been saying for years that it was totally unacceptable to Russia for Ukraine to join NATO (thereby allowing NATO to place armaments and missiles on its border).  NATO, unlike USSR, did not see reason and back down, and the western Ukrainian Govt pushed ahead full steam. USSR backed down to Kennedy - despite all the complaints and requests from Castro for them to stay and protect Cuba - NATO should have done the same.

That does not excuse Russia invading all of Ukraine IMO.  Coming to the 'rescue' of the self-declared independent States who have been at war with the Ukrainian Govt in western Ukraine was one thing. But to go further and invade all of Ukraine, and threatening anyone interfering with nuclear retaliation, is totally unacceptable IMO.  There is a reason the western powers have not just taken over Nth Korea - Kim would unleash catastrophic responses and nobody wins in a nuclear war.  Pushing Putin as hard and for as long as NATO did, only had one outcome. 

When conflict starts, the first victim is the truth - each side blames the other for it starting - we are mainly getting the western NATO USA EU version of the truth.  Russia's claims and statements are being altered and suppressed - but I have access to Russian news services so I see their lies to.  The truth is always somewhere towards the middle - not either of the extreme ends. 

[AussieBob]

12 hours ago, Alavan said:

I only see a country which isn’t part of NATO, and not on the verge of becoming a member, being attacked by a totalitarian neighbour.

Since 2014 there has been democratic elections, and the Russian minded people could also vote. Seems they didn’t win. Also the President of 2014 lost and they now have president who was an actor before.

if you see Putin and his acolytes saying they are attacking neo- fascist, WTF?

Putin never could accept the implosion of the Sovjet Union,

In 2014 the elected President of Ukraine was overthrown in a violent coup - that started the war and Crimea leaving. Eastern Ukraine did not participate in those elections - there was a war going on. Learn the history before making such silly comments. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Smithydog
Duplicated part of post (90%) removed

[AussieBob]

9 hours ago, EdwardV said:

That doesn't exist in the deal, the agreement doesn't include any language precluding either Ukraine or any of the prior Soviet client states from joining NATO. There was probably a verbal promise, but that's pretty flimsy to hang your hat on when it's going to cost hundreds or more likely thousands of deaths. 

That aside, Ukraine didn't qualify for joining NATO now or in the future no matter how much they want it. As long as Russia was sitting in Crimea, and they were never leaving, it wasn't possible. The idea that Russia attacked now to keep it from happening isn't grounded in the reality of the issue. Seems more like a convenient excuse than anything else. 

As for keeping the Ukraine from joining the EU,  they and NATO are two completely different organizations with two different objectives and obligations. The only reason to keep the Ukraine from joining the EU is to keep the Russian population from seeing what could be their lives could be??? 

I still don't see the true motive for the invasion or the end game. If it's to create a buffer zone between Russia and NATO, the two are already adjoining at the Baltic States. Never mind occupying Ukraine actually brings the two closer together at that part of the map. NATO was a dying entity, all the invasion did is revitalize it. 

I hear that - some good points - except that the Minsk Agreements specifically banned them from joining NATO - it was written into their Constitutions - which is why Ukraine had to change it to join NATO. 

[Freeduhdumb]

Let us not forget... the "invasion" of Ukraine occurred in 2014

[AussieBob]

6 hours ago, Dedinbed said:

Yes it can't be overlooked that even back in 1989 then Soviet leader Gorbachev sought assurances from the U S that NATO would not expand east if the Soviet's allowed East Germany to de-exist and become a unified Germany again .. it is said the USSR interpreted U S Secretary of State James Baker's words of " not an inch east " to mean no further NATO expansion east full stop while the U S claim that only referred to Germany as at the time it was not envisaged that other former Soviet Bloc countries would express a wish to join the organisation .. it is this agreement that Putin has referenced in the past in his railing against more and more countries applying for and being granted membership .. Yeltsin also tried to get Prez' Clinton to commit to no further expansion 1997 but without much success .. but Putin in his perceived hatred of NATO tends to overlook the fact that he after taking the reigns from Yeltsin approached the E U about membership for economic benefits and joining NATO to be told they have to go through the same vetting , application procedure as any other country which irked him greatly as the Great Russia could not queue up alongside countries like the Baltic nations .. that in part feeds his dislike of NATO but he cannot rail against a country that had to live under the yoke of the Soviet's for decades who then wish to join an organisation that protects them from it happening again ..  

Yes an No IMO.  Most of what you say is right. But it was much more than a 'deal' - it was signed and agreed in the Minsk Agreements- and it was included in the Ukraine Constitution.

Putin did not want to join EU as such, if I recall he wanted to setup a 'Tarde Agreement' based on the EU deal - not membership with all the social, legal and political impositions (which made UK leave).

What you said in last sentance is very true for Western Ukraine - not parts of Eastern Ukraine where a majority of the people speak Russian not Ukrainian.  Ukraine should have been created in 1991 as two or three separate States. Think Yugoslavia - forcing those very different Slavic people's together lead to decades of violence and atrocities - all based on disputes and wars going back hundreds of years.  Now we have Yugoslavia, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, and Bosnia/Herzegovina. Perhaps that is Putin's end game - break up Ukraine - it is certainly big enough. Ukraine is the second-largest country in Europe - after Russia. 

[AussieBob]

17 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

Let us not forget... the "invasion" of Ukraine occurred in 2014

Do you mean when NATO 'supported' western Ukraine overthrew the elected President in a violent coup?

Or do you mean when the Eastern parts of Ukraine (including Crimea) declared a civil war on the western Ukraine Govt?

Or do you mean when Russia annexed Crimea?

That all occurred in 2014.  

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Putin has been saying for years that it was totally unacceptable to Russia for Ukraine to join NATO (thereby allowing NATO to place armaments and missiles on its border).  NATO, unlike USSR, did not see reason and back down, and the western Ukrainian Govt pushed ahead full steam. USSR backed down to Kennedy - despite all the complaints and requests from Castro for them to stay and protect Cuba - NATO should have done the same.

That does not excuse Russia invading all of Ukraine IMO.  Coming to the 'rescue' of the self-declared independent States who have been at war with the Ukrainian Govt in western Ukraine was one thing. But to go further and invade all of Ukraine, and threatening anyone interfering with nuclear retaliation, is totally unacceptable IMO.  There is a reason the western powers have not just taken over Nth Korea - Kim would unleash catastrophic responses and nobody wins in a nuclear war.  Pushing Putin as hard and for as long as NATO did, only had one outcome. 

When conflict starts, the first victim is the truth - each side blames the other for it starting - we are mainly getting the western NATO USA EU version of the truth.  Russia's claims and statements are being altered and suppressed - but I have access to Russian news services so I see their lies to.  The truth is always somewhere towards the middle - not either of the extreme ends. 

an idiot would expect Russia to stand by and allow NATO to place missiles in Ukraine on its border and do nothing because it is 'right'. As I said a long time ago - well before the current events - this stand off was like the Bay of Pigs when Kennedy demanded USSR remove its nukes from Cuba or a war would happen. 

Putin has been saying for years that it was totally unacceptable to Russia for Ukraine to join NATO (thereby allowing NATO to place armaments and missiles on its border).  NATO, unlike USSR, did not see reason and back down, and the western Ukrainian Govt pushed ahead full steam. USSR backed down to Kennedy - despite all the complaints and requests from Castro for them to stay and protect Cuba - NATO should have done the same. 

Your attempt to draw parallels between the Cold War Cuban missile crisis and the West supply Ukraine with arms falls down in one important respect - nobody has been trying to supply Ukraine with nuclear missiles. 

[Pinetree]

20 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

Your attempt to draw parallels between the Cold War Cuban missile crisis and the West supply Ukraine with arms falls down in one important respect - nobody has been trying to supply Ukraine with nuclear missiles. 

I'm afraid that is a rather false  argument, but for a different reason.  If Russia takes over Ukraine, they will move their short range nuclear weapons into that country, that borders NATO countries.  Ukraine is the buffer, with that gone, NATO is at increased risk.  

[CamPat]

15 hours ago, EdwardV said:

“Sounds”? What did you hear that backs up your opinion? 

Simply look at History ! Nagasaki and Hiroshima both dropped by US Bombers. Triggerhappy Americans would do it again , i trust my gut feeling. Nobody else ever used Nukes.

[Nobodysfriend]

17 hours ago, vlad said:

No one will use Nuclear weapons Tim and Putin knows that we in the UK have Nuclear capability too. He is not stupid enough to use them. 

Don't be too sure about that .

This little man needs to have his ego polished ... and he has proven to be an arsehole , Syria , Myanmar , Nawalny , arrests of any opposition members and critical journalists ...

Anyone who dares to attack russian troops will be met with an instant response like what has never been seen before ... that's what he said , right ?

He feels not respected enough by the western powers, so he decided to " teach them a lesson " .

If he gets away with that without serious consequences that make him and the russians suffer , his extraterritorial expansion dreams may not stop there .

[KRLMRX]

7 hours ago, Alavan said:

How far is Kiev and Lviv from that border?

I wrote this yesterday. The situation is changing. I do not support this war. As well as any war that moneybags arrange for their own interests.

[Grumpish]

29 minutes ago, CamPat said:

Simply look at History ! Nagasaki and Hiroshima both dropped by US Bombers. Triggerhappy Americans would do it again , i trust my gut feeling. Nobody else ever used Nukes.

Trigger happy? Just taking Okinawa resulted in over 300,000 deaths, with half of those deaths being civilians. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the soft options compared to the potential cost of an assault on mainland Japan. 

[Thaidup]

So Europe is still buying energy from Russia, and the Ruble has lost almost 50% in value.

Tell me if I wrong, but does that mean that Russia is making more Rubles per cubic meter of gas etc?

Example, If a cubic meter was 1000 Ruble before, now they are making 1500 ruble per cubic meter, hypothetically speaking.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Thaidup

[Noble_Design]

14 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

So Europe is still buying energy from Russia, and the Ruble has lost almost 50% in value.

Tell me if I wrong, but does that mean that Russia is making more Rubles per cubic meter of gas etc?

Example, If a cubic meter was 1000 Ruble before, now they are making 1500 ruble per cubic meter, hypothetically speaking.

Well depends on whether they are buying from them in Ruble, Euro or USD. If they are buying in Euro or USD then yes Russia will make more Rubble.

[Fester]

7 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Won't change a thing and it only make sense. Russia's intention is to take over the entire country and install a new government. Therefore they need to take possession of the entire country including the parts no one else wants.  

Unfortunately, I think you are correct there.

[vlad]

43 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

Trigger happy? Just taking Okinawa resulted in over 300,000 deaths, with half of those deaths being civilians. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the soft options compared to the potential cost of an assault on mainland Japan. 

So America killed thousands of Civilians to end it. Were they military Targets ?