News Forum - Putin sends ‘peacekeeping’ troops to Ukraine after recognising breakaway regions

[oldschooler]

58 minutes ago, 1l1 said:

The main problem of russian community. Freethinkers (intelligentsia, businessmen, incl. rich peasants) were killed by bolsheviks in civil war (1917-1922) or forced to leave the country.

Putin's electorate is the Baby boomer gen. - children of those who survived the collectivization and WWII. They inherited the worldview of proletariat.

Gen.X is apolitical (except who is in public office).

Only Millennials are dissenting.

those same types of people achieved only very minor reform ( eg Duma) for the 1000 years of Russia History before Communism which nobody ever really believed in and did not practice but which destroyed all public faith in govt institutions. So sad for a great people permanently enslaving themselves.

[AussieBob]

12 hours ago, stevenkongju said:

So you don't want me to rip apart you earlier posts...I understand.

Yes, the Minsk Agreements. Invade a weaker nation and make them sign agreements to end your aggression. Sounds like a good ol' Mafia protection racket to me.

Now I await both you former posts and you explination on the PRE-Minsk Agreement Budapest Memorandum.

No please do - rip them apart at your leisure - I wont wait because you cant - but enjoy trying.

Wait on - just read your second paragraph - perhaps you need to know how to understand history.  Let me give you some clue - history is not about looking at things with a pre-determined narrative and a cognitive bias  - it is about looking at things impartially and coldly (no emotional baggage).  Example:  Radical Feminists views of history - they genuinely see nothing in the past but the oppression and abuse of women by men - that is what they truly believe and so that is what they see. 

That is how you (and some others) are seeing what has happened in Ukraine.  Look again at what happened leading up to and since the President's overthrow in 2014 - and why all agreements from the past were ignored after that - by both Ukraine and Russia.  The deal you mention was mainly about nuclear armaments and that the Ukraine and the other States previously in USSR would remain a neutral buffer zone between NATO/Europe and Russia - think about that.

[AussieBob]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

those same types of people achieved only very minor reform ( eg Duma) for the 1000 years of Russia History before Communism which nobody ever really believed in and did not practice but which destroyed all public faith in govt institutions. So sad for a great people permanently enslaving themselves.

Same thing happened in China - thousands of years of culture and society thrown away in the name of 'freedom from oppression' - which since then has been basically and systematically destroyed. It is a common thing for despots to destroy all vestiges of the past once they get into power - Germany, Russia, China are the three biggest recent examples.  One gone - two to go. 

Some people are now thinking - hey wait on - AussieBob is in support of Putin and Russia.  To them I say this - read all my posts and you will see that I never supported what Russia has done - I have understood why Russia did what it did and said that it was NATO that mainly caused thjis to happen.  The chicken littles here and in the media are all going off about a world war 3 bla bla - but so far all Putin and Russia has done is exactly what they said they would for years if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and continued to violently suppress the self-declared independent States.

NATO and Europe and USA were calling what they thought was Putin's bluff and Putin called them out back. Where it goes from here is the issue IMO - despite the media and others (especially the Ukraine Govt) claiming world disaster and all this and that. I reckon it will be just like after Crimea was annexed.  However IMO the biggest stumbling block to that will be the west getting Ukraine to back down and give over those States - so far the President of Ukraine is demanding the west invade back into those States - that will probably start a war with Russia and could lead to WW3.  Then the bigger issue becomes what about China. Will China remain neutral or will they do 'a Japan' and join with Russia - my bet is that they would.  Therefore the pressure on Ukraine to back down and give in will be massive - no one really wants WW3 - well except for the media of course. 

 

[Tim_Melb]

Well it's official Putin has invaded Ukraine so much for the rubbish posted by all the Putin apologisers here. 

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Same thing happened in China - thousands of years of culture and society thrown away in the name of 'freedom from oppression' - which since then has been basically and systematically destroyed. It is a common thing for despots to destroy all vestiges of the past once they get into power - Germany, Russia, China are the three biggest recent examples.  One gone - two to go. 

Some people are now thinking - hey wait on - AussieBob is in support of Putin and Russia.  To them I say this - read all my posts and you will see that I never supported what Russia has done - I have understood why Russia did what it did and said that it was NATO that mainly caused thjis to happen.  The chicken littles here and in the media are all going off about a world war 3 bla bla - but so far all Putin and Russia has done is exactly what they said they would for years if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and continued to violently suppress the self-declared independent States.

NATO and Europe and USA were calling what they thought was Putin's bluff and Putin called them out back. Where it goes from here is the issue IMO - despite the media and others (especially the Ukraine Govt) claiming world disaster and all this and that. I reckon it will be just like after Crimea was annexed.  However IMO the biggest stumbling block to that will be the west getting Ukraine to back down and give over those States - so far the President of Ukraine is demanding the west invade back into those States - that will probably start a war with Russia and could lead to WW3.  Then the bigger issue becomes what about China. Will China remain neutral or will they do 'a Japan' and join with Russia - my bet is that they would.  Therefore the pressure on Ukraine to back down and give in will be massive - no one really wants WW3 - well except for the media of course. 

Only possible to “respect” Russia’s actions here from a tyrant viewpoint.

I repeat; if Russia was Free,  NATO need not exist as Democracies NEVER fight each other ! 

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Only possible to “respect” Russia’s actions here from a tyrant viewpoint.

I repeat; if Russia was Free,  NATO need not exist as Democracies NEVER fight each other ! 

Mate - you have serious issues if think that way. 

Check this out for starters:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_between_democracies#20th_century

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Tim_Melb said:

Well it's official Putin has invaded Ukraine so much for the rubbish posted by all the Putin apologisers here. 

Hope that those reports are wrong, because if Russia has invaded the western parts of Ukraine then Putin is now totally into over-reach - he cannot justify taking such action.  NATO and the USA will be under enormous pressure to react with military force now - even though Ukraine is not yet a member. If that occurs NATO and/or USA reacts with military force, then things could quickly get out of hand and escalate.  As if Covid was not bad enough for the last 2 years - now we might have a war in Europe. 

[CamPat]

The US Roadmap designed decades ago was a lot bigger than what we witness today. Even during Soviet Times the dissolution of the Soviet Union was on the Planning Table. After the fall of the Soviet Union it simply changed to the dissolution of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Russia.

It's right on track with the geopolitical policies of the US to trigger Regime changes in smaller countries (which would be the case if Russia desintegrates the same way that created the ex Satellite States i.e. from Lithuania all the way to Ukraine, Georgia etc. ) by divide-conquer-exploitation which worked so well around the globe.

Putin knows this and has managed to stop the issue of further US lead Nato expansion. It's not that he did'nt announce it early on that there are some security issues for Russia that he want's to have properly adressed. We know that nothing substantial except the weaponizing of former Soviet Satellite States happened.

Great way to keep peace. But that's just my opinion. The consequence if this gets further out of control is that Europe will face a War instead of the US.

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

NATO and the USA will be under enormous pressure to react with military force now - even though Ukraine is not yet a member.

I don’t see that happening, certainly not with the US. Of course all it would take is Russia attacking Poland or the Baltic states to change that to a reality. They will ratchet up sanctions and send weapons to Ukrainian freedom fighters, but that’s it. The real question now is what’s the end game for Russia. Part of the Ukraine? All of it? Or even parts of Poland and all of the Baltics? Russia doesn’t have a large enough army to go far into Europe , but depending on the real objective it’s probably big enough. It still my opinion this will be Russia last war (and not in a good way for them). 

[CamPat]

 

Global Times Analysis

Hoaxing Ukraine into paying for ‘protection

The United Nations Security Council held a special meeting on the situation in Ukraine on Thursday, during which US Secretary of State Antony Blinken again quoted intelligence obtained by the US as claiming that Russia was preparing to launch an attack against Ukraine in the coming days. As February 16, previously cited as the invasion day, became a joke, some US media outlets proposed a new “invasion date” – February 20. It can be assumed that once that day passes, Americans will come up with a new guess. When it comes to a “war,” the US has long launched one against Russia, a hybrid information war.

read more here: https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501030665/hoaxing-ukraine-into-paying-for-protection/

 

 

[AussieBob]

16 minutes ago, CamPat said:

The US Roadmap designed decades ago was a lot bigger than what we witness today. Even during Soviet Times the dissolution of the Soviet Union was on the Planning Table. After the fall of the Soviet Union it simply changed to the dissolution of Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_Russia.

It's right on track with the geopolitical policies of the US to trigger Regime changes in smaller countries (which would be the case if Russia desintegrates the same way that created the ex Satellite States i.e. from Lithuania all the way to Ukraine, Georgia etc. ) by divide-conquer-exploitation which worked so well around the globe.

Putin knows this and has managed to stop the issue of further US lead Nato expansion. It's not that he did'nt announce it early on that there are some security issues for Russia that he want's to have properly adressed. We know that nothing substantial except the weaponizing of former Soviet Satellite States happened.

Great way to keep peace. But that's just my opinion. The consequence if this gets further out of control is that Europe will face a War instead of the US.

Good overview. Geopolitical games have been going on for sure - I think they pushed Russia too hard.  I just watched parts of Putin's speech announcing the invasion of Ukraine, and Biden's press statement. They were both mainly about blaming the other side for what has happened, plus Putin took some time to threaten massive retaliation against anyone getting in their way inside Ukraine. Looks like the G7 will be discussing very soon (if not now) what responses they will now take. NATO cannot get involved, as far as I know, because Ukraine is not a member - but that does not mean that Europe supported by USA cannot respond militarily.  We all hope that a war in Europe does not happen - hopefully G7 can convince Putin to pull back - I cant see how they can let Russia take over all of Ukraine without taking military action. More sanctions wont stop it - that is very clear. Khrapp.

[Dedinbed]

29 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Hope that those reports are wrong, because if Russia has invaded the western parts of Ukraine then Putin is now totally into over-reach - he cannot justify taking such action.  NATO and the USA will be under enormous pressure to react with military force now - even though Ukraine is not yet a member. If that occurs NATO and/or USA reacts with military force, then things could quickly get out of hand and escalate.  As if Covid was not bad enough for the last 2 years - now we might have a war in Europe. 

Unfortunately it is true .. they launched rocket and missile attacks at Ukrainian defence infrastructure about 3 hrs ago and it is ongoing .. pumped up Putin has warned everyone ( the West ) to stay out or risk retaliation the likes of they will not have seen before .. what a absolute jumped up tosser that bloke is .. 

[AussieBob]

10 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I don’t see that happening, certainly not with the US. Of course all it would take is Russia attacking Poland or the Baltic states to change that to a reality. They will ratchet up sanctions and send weapons to Ukrainian freedom fighters, but that’s it. The real question now is what’s the end game for Russia. Part of the Ukraine? All of it? Or even parts of Poland and all of the Baltics? Russia doesn’t have a large enough army to go far into Europe , but depending on the real objective it’s probably big enough. It still my opinion this will be Russia last war (and not in a good way for them). 

I hope you are right - and I agree about USA - it is likely they will provide support and equipment but unlikely they will send in troops.  But will Europe/USA really let Russia take over and keep Ukraine through military force?  Perhaps you are right and they will decide that a civil war inside Ukraine will eventually destabilise Russia and drain their resources - so they will support the Ukrainians who will fight against Russia. Did they have this planned all along? NATO has pushed Russia so far - surely they expected some reaction eventually. 

[Metaluna]

35 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

NATO and the USA will be under enormous pressure to react with military force now - even though Ukraine is not yet a member.

Even as you read this, General Milley is huddling with Ibram X. Kendi, Robin DiAngelo, and Gen. Li Zuocheng of the PLA and planning to hit Putin hard with a diversity offensive.

[Poolie]

32 minutes ago, CamPat said:

Global Times Analysis

Hoaxing Ukraine into paying for ‘protection

The United Nations Security Council held a special meeting on the situation in Ukraine on Thursday, during which US Secretary of State Antony Blinken again quoted intelligence obtained by the US as claiming that Russia was preparing to launch an attack against Ukraine in the coming days. As February 16, previously cited as the invasion day, became a joke, some US media outlets proposed a new “invasion date” – February 20. It can be assumed that once that day passes, Americans will come up with a new guess. When it comes to a “war,” the US has long launched one against Russia, a hybrid information war.

read more here: https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501030665/hoaxing-ukraine-into-paying-for-protection/

Good read, if a little direct.

[Fundok]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:47 AM, AussieBob said:

Here we go.  I figured Putin would step in and annex/support Donbass and Donetsk, who have been in a civil war with the NATYO supported Ukraine Govt in western Ukraine. But the big issues are:

1. Will Putin stop there, or will he also 'support' other parts of the Baltic countries that are also fighting against being 'sucked into' NATO by their leaders;

2. Will NATO use military force to support the Ukrainian Army that has been a civil war in both Donbass and Donetsk since 2014 - which of course has now backed down in the face of obliteration by Russia.

I must say - at least Covid wont be the lead story in the media now. The media loves a war - it gives them the ability to stir up the 'fear factor' like they always do.  

Well, seems Putin is not only going to "protect" the two provinces in the east, but considers the whole of Ukraine as prey. The baltics, albeit substantially smaller, are part of the EU and NATO, so any attack on them will inevitably invoke Art 5 of the NATO statutues - every NATO member would be called for their defense, WW3 looming.

And China might be encouraged to take what they always said belongs to them anyway: Taiwan. Uncertain times ahead of us, sadly.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Fundok
Removing "auto-corrections"

[Fundok]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Hope that those reports are wrong, because if Russia has invaded the western parts of Ukraine then Putin is now totally into over-reach - he cannot justify taking such action.  NATO and the USA will be under enormous pressure to react with military force now - even though Ukraine is not yet a member. If that occurs NATO and/or USA reacts with military force, then things could quickly get out of hand and escalate.  As if Covid was not bad enough for the last 2 years - now we might have a war in Europe. 

Sadly, reliable news report that i.e. Kiev was attacked, so this alledged "peace keeping"-mission of Russia is way more than that. It seems that Russia intends to occupy all of the Ukraine now.

 

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Metaluna said:

Even as you read this, General Milley is huddling with Ibram X. Kendi, Robin DiAngelo, and Gen. Li Zuocheng of the PLA and planning to hit Putin hard with a diversity offensive.

LOL - best joke of the day award !!! 

[Tim_Melb]

1 hour ago, CamPat said:

Global Times Analysis

Hoaxing Ukraine into paying for ‘protection

The United Nations Security Council held a special meeting on the situation in Ukraine on Thursday, during which US Secretary of State Antony Blinken again quoted intelligence obtained by the US as claiming that Russia was preparing to launch an attack against Ukraine in the coming days. As February 16, previously cited as the invasion day, became a joke, some US media outlets proposed a new “invasion date” – February 20. It can be assumed that once that day passes, Americans will come up with a new guess. When it comes to a “war,” the US has long launched one against Russia, a hybrid information war.

read more here: https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501030665/hoaxing-ukraine-into-paying-for-protection/

Oh yes the CCP analysis, what a load of crap. Who cares what they say. 

[Poolie]

1 minute ago, Tim_Melb said:

Oh yes the CCP analysis, what a load of crap. Who cares what they say. 

Thank you for the deep, meaningful and carefully considered opinion on current events.

[AussieBob]

52 minutes ago, Fundok said:

Well, seems Putin is not only going to "protect" the two provinces in the east, but considers the whole of Ukraine as prey. The baltics, albeit substantially smaller, are paer of the EU allnd NATO, so any attack on them Wohlergehen und inevitably invoke Art 5 of the NATO statutues - every NATO member would be called for their defense, WW3 looming.

And China might be encouraged to take what they always said belongs to them anyway: Taiwan. Uncertain times ahead of us, sadly.

Yes it is a big worry now that Russia has gone too far.  Yes - we could have both Europe going to war yet again, and China taking advantage of the situation and following Putin's lead is another big worry.  2 years of covid and now this - I dont like the 2020s at all. 

[AussieBob]

45 minutes ago, Fundok said:

Sadly, reliable news report that i.e. Kiev was attacked, so this alledged "peace keeping"-mission of Russia is way more than that. It seems that Russia intends to occupy all of the Ukraine now.

Things are starting to get ugly - I hope it does not escalate too far too quickly, before the 'calmer ones' can bring things back under control. 

[Convert54]

18 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Things are starting to get ugly - I hope it does not escalate too far too quickly, before the 'calmer ones' can bring things back under control. 

Maybe all over soon? Scott Morrison has condemned Putin and  voiced objections etc in the strongest  possible terms plus instructed the Russians to withdraw forthwith ! That'll do it !

[JohninDublin]

Here is where we see if Economic sanctions are the big stick that the West claim they are. The rouble is down 17% in the past 3 days. 

I think much of the sustainability of this war will depend on Russian public opinion. In the old Soviet Union days when hostile public opinion was suppressed, it was this opinion that led to the withdrawal from Afghanistan. It may not be the right thing to say, but if enough body bags pile up in Moscow, Russian public opinion may be the key to ending this. Certainly, Ukraine is a bigger mouthful to chew than Georgia.

[AussieBob]

14 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Maybe all over soon? Scott Morrison has condemned Putin and  voiced objections etc in the strongest  possible terms plus instructed the Russians to withdraw forthwith ! That'll do it !

Putin must be shaking in his boots