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[Beaker]

I’d say that if you are 70% less likely to need to go to hospital with omicron than with delta then it’s not as serious.
Which variant would you choose to catch if you could and had to choose. I bet it would be omicron. Why? Because it’s not as serious. 

[Jayce]

4 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

I can see where you are coming from, but think about this: Yesterday, Asia, the most populous continent on the planet, reported 75k new cases. France, the US and the UK each had more infections than the whole of Asia. It is foreign travel that brings in the new variants. 

It may seem like racial profiling the way I am explaining this, but if foreign travel is the root cause of this, then it makes sense to me, to keep a particular eye on foreigners.

We are seeing plenty of cases of people boarding flights on the back of tests not older than 72 hours before take off. The closer the test is to actual take off, the less likely there will be a detectable viral load (VL). I am due to land 87 hours after my test, so it seems likely to me I might have an undetectable VL when I am tested, but when I arrive, it is detectable. But suppose I caught it in transit. I could almost certainly beat the landing test. Maybe the sensible thing to do is another test 5 days later which I understand the TH gov will pay for.

Hey John, I also see where you're coming from but I'll respectfully decline to agree with you nevertheless

For starters, the amount of virus circulating in the country of origin for travelers coming to Thailand is totally irrelevant. As you yourself point out, you are likely to test negative on arrival after a negative 72 hours test but could have quite easily caught the virus in transit! So the country of origin has no role to play in that scenario. Therefore whatever the caseload is in the country of departure is irrelevant and whether or not one country in the EU for example has a casload that is higher than the entirety of Asia is equally a moot point. The only thing that matters in that regard is whether the actual traveler is positive or not. Testing indeed allows you to greatly reduce the likelihood that someone is positive and by doing the 72 hours test as well as testing on arrival, you already eliminate a significant amount of people from entering the country positive thereby reducing the chance that people are 'bringing in the virus' and adding (a couple of drops of) fuel to an already well-fed-by-Thai-gasoline fire.

The real question is: should the day 7 test be introduced/kept in the way that it has just been? I say no to that: it significantly deters people from coming to Thailand knowing that they could be thrown into hospital and does it really matter whether that person caught Covid in Transit or got it from an unsuspecting Thai person on his first couple of days in the country? Surely not! If the aim is to keep travelers from bringing in Covid as much as possible you have already achieved that goal from the first two tests so when a traveler catches it locally, he hasn't brought in anything in addition to what was already spreading in Thailand and he should therefore be considered local and subject to the same rules (i.e. not getting tested unless they themselves want to get tested because they feel they have symptoms) as the Thai. Or we could start testing the Thai every 7 days of course...

4 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

So why not test Thais as frequently as tourists? I think the answer to that is that the testing is meant to protect Thais from us, and not vice versa. Of course, it should be mentioned that having had two tests, does not guarantee that I will not be infected by a local close to the date of my second test and pass detection on that occasion.

But that's my whole point! Why shouldn't you protect Thai from other Thai just as much if not more so than from travelers?? Thai are just as likely to die from Covid when they get Covid from another Thai then when they get it from a traveler. And they are much much more likely to get it from their fellow Thai then from a traveler to start with! There is no us and them in the current status and if anything I'd be more worried about them than us. This whole deluded 'we need to protect our people from the big bad outside world' is completely moronic when you yourself as a country have already become part of that 'big bad outside world'. Once the virus is seeded, there is no point in trying to keep it out or discriminating against virus from the outside versus virus from the inside. I'm not saying "don't do your best to slow down the spread" mind you, it's just that there are much more gains to be had from other measures than shutting down the small trickle of tourists. The only time it makes sense is when you'd want to keep a new mutation out and let's face it, that Omicron ship has already sailed in Thailand.

When we talk in sheer numbers, what we are seeing (at the current rate of influx so I've gathered from another thread somewhere on here) is 105000 tourists over a seven week period when Test and Go was open (of which 120 confirmed infected who were then isolated) coming into the country versus 270000 Thai people confirmed positive over the same period (and I would assume that this is very much an understated number given the lack of appetite of the Thai to get testsed and adding in the amount of asymptomatic Thai running around as well). So even in the very unlikely scenario that all of those 105000 tourists ended up testing positive on day 7, it would still be a lesser number compared to the amount of Thai who tested positive.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Jayce

[LoongFred]

6 minutes ago, Jayce said:

Hey John, I also see where you're coming from but I'll respectfully decline to agree with you nevertheless

For starters, the amount of virus circulating in the country of origin for travelers coming to Thailand is totally irrelevant. As you yourself point out, you are likely to test negative on arrival after a negative 72 hours test but could have quite easily caught the virus in transit! So the country of origin has no role to play in that scenario. Therefore whatever the caseload is in the country of departure is irrelevant and whether or not one country in the EU for example has a casload that is higher than the entirety of Asia is equally a moot point. The only thing that matters in that regard is whether the actual traveler is positive or not. Testing indeed allows you to greatly reduce the likelihood that someone is positive and by doing the 72 hours test as well as testing on arrival, you already eliminate a significant amount of people from entering the country positive thereby reducing the chance that people are 'bringing in the virus' and adding (a couple of drops of) fuel to an already well-fed-by-Thai-gasoline fire.

The real question is: should the day 7 test be introduced/kept in the way that it has just been? I say no to that: it significantly deters people from coming to Thailand knowing that they could be thrown into hospital and does it really matter whether that person caught Covid in Transit or got it from an unsuspecting Thai person on his first couple of days in the country? Surely not! If the aim is to keep travelers from bringing in Covid as much as possible you have already achieved that goal from the first two tests so when a traveler catches it locally, he hasn't brought in anything in addition to what was already spreading in Thailand and he should therefore be considered local and subject to the same rules (i.e. not getting tested unless they themselves want to get tested because they feel they have symptoms) as the Thai. Or we could start testing the Thai every 7 days of course...

But that's my whole point! Why shouldn't you protect Thai from other Thai just as much if not more so than from travelers?? Thai are just as likely to die from Covid when they get Covid from another Thai then when they get it from a traveler. And they are much much more likely to get it from their fellow Thai then from a traveler to start with! There is no us and them in the current status and if anything I'd be more worried about them than us. This whole deluded 'we need to protect our people from the big bad outside world' is completely moronic when you yourself as a country have already become part of that 'big bad outside world'. Once the virus is seeded, there is no point in trying to keep it out or discriminating against virus from the outside versus virus from the inside. I'm not saying "don't do your best to slow down the spread" mind you, it's just that there are much more gains to be had from other measures than from keeping tourists out. The only time it makes sense is when you'd want to keep a new mutation out and let's face it, that Omicron ship has already sailed in Thailand.

When we talk in sheer numbers, what we are seeing (at the current rate of influx so I've gathered from another thread somewhere on here) is 105000 tourists over a seven week period when Test and Go was open (of which 120 confirmed infected who were then isolated) coming into the country versus 270000 Thai people confirmed positive over the same period (and I would assume that this is very much an understated number given the lack of appetite of the Thai to get testsed and adding in the amount of asymptomatic Thai running around as well). So even in the very unlikely scenario that all of those 105000 tourists ended up testing positive on day 7, it would still be a lesser number compared to the amount of Thai who tested positive.

The infection rate at your point of departure is very important. It creates a more likely situation that you could be exposed and newly infected before departure. This might go undetected during your travels

Places with low infection rates would make this proportionality less likely. It make a lot of sense to be careful with visitors from countries with high rates.

[Rangers]

7 hours ago, Beaker said:

Omicron up to 70% less likely to need hospital care https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969
There you go. 

More than just the UK know how mild omicron is. The Government's admitting it is a different matter though and as for some of the scaremongerers on here, you'll never convince them. They are too determined to strike fear into the world because they enjoy being so miserable.

[oldschooler]

ZERO CASES from Omicron for UK Triple Jabbed. Action is Clear. Also CLEAR from Data that Omicron is MILD.

Covid in evolving to be Highly Infectious has blown itself out.

[LoongFred]

13 hours ago, Beaker said:

I’d say that if you are 70% less likely to need to go to hospital with omicron than with delta then it’s not as serious.
Which variant would you choose to catch if you could and had to choose. I bet it would be omicron. Why? Because it’s not as serious. 

Initially it looks like Omicron is less serious but more  infectious. I think it's also too early to know if this true for various population groups or not.  In other words is "might be or might not". More is needed, especially in relationship to age and population groups and/or nutrition status (or other factors). Best to error on being cautious. 

[JohninDublin]

11 hours ago, Jayce said:

Hey John, I also see where you're coming from but I'll respectfully decline to agree with you nevertheless

For starters, the amount of virus circulating in the country of origin for travelers coming to Thailand is totally irrelevant. As you yourself point out, you are likely to test negative on arrival after a negative 72 hours test but could have quite easily caught the virus in transit! So the country of origin has no role to play in that scenario. Therefore whatever the caseload is in the country of departure is irrelevant and whether or not one country in the EU for example has a casload that is higher than the entirety of Asia is equally a moot point. The only thing that matters in that regard is whether the actual traveler is positive or not. Testing indeed allows you to greatly reduce the likelihood that someone is positive and by doing the 72 hours test as well as testing on arrival, you already eliminate a significant amount of people from entering the country positive thereby reducing the chance that people are 'bringing in the virus' and adding (a couple of drops of) fuel to an already well-fed-by-Thai-gasoline fire.

The real question is: should the day 7 test be introduced/kept in the way that it has just been? I say no to that: it significantly deters people from coming to Thailand knowing that they could be thrown into hospital and does it really matter whether that person caught Covid in Transit or got it from an unsuspecting Thai person on his first couple of days in the country? Surely not! If the aim is to keep travelers from bringing in Covid as much as possible you have already achieved that goal from the first two tests so when a traveler catches it locally, he hasn't brought in anything in addition to what was already spreading in Thailand and he should therefore be considered local and subject to the same rules (i.e. not getting tested unless they themselves want to get tested because they feel they have symptoms) as the Thai. Or we could start testing the Thai every 7 days of course...

But that's my whole point! Why shouldn't you protect Thai from other Thai just as much if not more so than from travelers?? Thai are just as likely to die from Covid when they get Covid from another Thai then when they get it from a traveler. And they are much much more likely to get it from their fellow Thai then from a traveler to start with! There is no us and them in the current status and if anything I'd be more worried about them than us. This whole deluded 'we need to protect our people from the big bad outside world' is completely moronic when you yourself as a country have already become part of that 'big bad outside world'. Once the virus is seeded, there is no point in trying to keep it out or discriminating against virus from the outside versus virus from the inside. I'm not saying "don't do your best to slow down the spread" mind you, it's just that there are much more gains to be had from other measures than shutting down the small trickle of tourists. The only time it makes sense is when you'd want to keep a new mutation out and let's face it, that Omicron ship has already sailed in Thailand.

When we talk in sheer numbers, what we are seeing (at the current rate of influx so I've gathered from another thread somewhere on here) is 105000 tourists over a seven week period when Test and Go was open (of which 120 confirmed infected who were then isolated) coming into the country versus 270000 Thai people confirmed positive over the same period (and I would assume that this is very much an understated number given the lack of appetite of the Thai to get testsed and adding in the amount of asymptomatic Thai running around as well). So even in the very unlikely scenario that all of those 105000 tourists ended up testing positive on day 7, it would still be a lesser number compared to the amount of Thai who tested positive.

I think we are going to have to disagree on various points.

Your argument appears to be, "If I am going to be tested twice, then so should everybody in TH". If that is the case, then have you even begun to consider the logistics in carrying out 140 mill tests on Thais?

While remaining polite, that has to be rated as a ludicrous suggestion. I would think that it would take many months to carry out the two tests necessary, during which time any new infections will have been resolved, as well as people who were negative at time of testing, later becoming infected and resolved and you will have returned home long before they have got around to your test. It would take so long to process all these tests, that people would be told months after the test and they had recovered, "WE have detected Covid".

Testing is a finite resource and needs answers ASAP.

Testing works best if it is targeted. If you are coming from a country that has a higher infection rate than TH, then it seems logical to me that you may present a greater risk than the locals, and greater resources should be devoted to you than the average Thai. There will of course be areas and cohorts within TH that represents "hotspots" which would also need greater resources.

But let me demonstrate how ludicrous the idea of mass testing is. You land in TH and you manage to persuade the gov that if you are going to be tested twice so should everyone in TH. They agree. Months later they complete the testing, which be now is totally pointless. You and many others have gone home before your test is even analysed. Then someone else arrives in TH and makes the same argument you did. They are told "We tested everyone six months ago." They make the argument, "That was then. This is now".

You may not like to hear this, but in my opinion, if you are considered to represent a threat to public health because of where you have just arrived from, then they are entitled to insist on testing you. And if they allow for the fact that you may have an undetectable viral load on arrival, which does happen, they are entitled to require additional testing. At least the TH gov are paying for the second test.

[DrPattaya]

Anyone got any examples of people having to go to hospital for 10 days after getting a positive covid test on arrival?

[LoongFred]

On 12/24/2021 at 8:34 PM, JohninDublin said:

I think we are going to have to disagree on various points.

Your argument appears to be, "If I am going to be tested twice, then so should everybody in TH". If that is the case, then have you even begun to consider the logistics in carrying out 140 mill tests on Thais?

While remaining polite, that has to be rated as a ludicrous suggestion. I would think that it would take many months to carry out the two tests necessary, during which time any new infections will have been resolved, as well as people who were negative at time of testing, later becoming infected and resolved and you will have returned home long before they have got around to your test. It would take so long to process all these tests, that people would be told months after the test and they had recovered, "WE have detected Covid".

Testing is a finite resource and needs answers ASAP.

Testing works best if it is targeted. If you are coming from a country that has a higher infection rate than TH, then it seems logical to me that you may present a greater risk than the locals, and greater resources should be devoted to you than the average Thai. There will of course be areas and cohorts within TH that represents "hotspots" which would also need greater resources.

But let me demonstrate how ludicrous the idea of mass testing is. You land in TH and you manage to persuade the gov that if you are going to be tested twice so should everyone in TH. They agree. Months later they complete the testing, which be now is totally pointless. You and many others have gone home before your test is even analysed. Then someone else arrives in TH and makes the same argument you did. They are told "We tested everyone six months ago." They make the argument, "That was then. This is now".

You may not like to hear this, but in my opinion, if you are considered to represent a threat to public health because of where you have just arrived from, then they are entitled to insist on testing you. And if they allow for the fact that you may have an undetectable viral load on arrival, which does happen, they are entitled to require additional testing. At least the TH gov are paying for the second test.

John,  You shouldn't try to discuss things with someone who obviously only thinks of themselves.  It's a waste of time.

[astro]

Testing plays a central role in combating the virus.

While it is illusory to expect the entire population to receive two PCR test in a week, the argument for testing is strong & sound. The quick-test which is already widely available for free, is a good measure. Make it compulsory for long distance bus journeys etc.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

John,  You shouldn't try to discuss things with someone who obviously only thinks of themselves.  It's a waste of time.

Thanks for the advice. 

Sometimes when I see a post like the one I was responding to, I try to assume "good faith" and reply along the lines of "Have you really thought this through properly"?

In this particular case, my polite reaction was "In order to make you feel as if you are not the victim of discrimination, do you really think that TH should carry out 140 mill tests? The test is only a snapshot of events at the time the tests took place. A few weeks down the road, someone makes a similar demand long before all those test results are concluded on the basis of, 'that was then, this is now', and the gov will have to order up another 140 mill tests. Do you not see something ludicrous in that"?

FWIW, I may not like the rules that any gov imposes, but that is their right. I presume that you live in a Thai house, and like many such homes, you probably have a rule of "Shoes off at the door". But whether I agree with the rule or not, that does not undermine your right to walk around your own home wearing muddy work boots.

[Dr.Sivada]

All these pathetic scaremongers…why don’t you seal yourself into a nice and cozy coffin so the virus can’t get you? At this point, the best course of action is to vaccinate, perform all necessary precautions, wear masks, careful with contacts, and move on with our lives. Don’t agree? Sure, not my problem. 

[Jynx]

Do I have to register my second covid test result,  which was negative,  with the authorities or will this be done by the hospital 

[King Cotton]

9 minutes ago, Jynx said:

Do I have to register my second covid test result,  which was negative,  with the authorities or will this be done by the hospital 

Hi, @Jynxand welcome to the forum. Whilst I'm not au fait with testing protocols, member @Fazcertainly is and, upon spotting this mention, will no doubt come galloping to your aid.

[Faz]

27 minutes ago, Jynx said:

Do I have to register my second covid test result,  which was negative,  with the authorities or will this be done by the hospital 

As I understand the tests are supposed to be registered on the Mor Chana App, but last I heard the whole system was 'broke' and doesn't work. If you have the result(s) my advice would be to keep them safe and possibly save a photo to your phone.

[Robyntmorton]

I arrived on Monday, and my Test&Go hotel said to send them the result so they could take care of it. Your mileage may vary, but this is the info relayed to me