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[longwood50]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

The world's population - at least, the intelligent side - needs to get over themselves and lend a cognitive understanding that this pathogen, and it's various offspring, is no more dangerous/deadly than an annual influenza outbreak

I partially agree.  Though we have had vaccines for decades against the flu, on average 9% of the entire world's population contracts the flu.  The World Heath Organization estimates that respiratory deaths linked to the flu result in upwards of 650,000 deaths annually.  That does not include deaths linked to non respiratory complications. 

So while Covid has a higher mortality rate, it infects far fewer people.  Now, with the new medicines from Pfizer and Merck it is estimated that 90% effectiveness against being sick to the point of needing hospitalization.  So the answer isn't to be an ostrich and stick our heads in the sand but to practice reasonable safeguards, stronger safeguards for those most likely to be severely impacted and have a supply of the medicine to treat those who show to be infected. 

Lets face it, no one requires a HIV test before entering a country but here is a virus that is incurable.  Yes you have to have sexual contact in order to contract it but you certainly may not know if your partner has the virus.  That is no different than sitting next to a person who may have covid and transmit it to you.  The difference is with one you will likely recover with HIV at best you will face a life of antivirals. 

[AussieBob]

17 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

I partially agree.  Though we have had vaccines for decades against the flu, on average 9% of the entire world's population contracts the flu.  The World Heath Organization estimates that respiratory deaths linked to the flu result in upwards of 650,000 deaths annually.  That does not include deaths linked to non respiratory complications. 

So while Covid has a higher mortality rate, it infects far fewer people.  Now, with the new medicines from Pfizer and Merck it is estimated that 90% effectiveness against being sick to the point of needing hospitalization.  So the answer isn't to be an ostrich and stick our heads in the sand but to practice reasonable safeguards, stronger safeguards for those most likely to be severely impacted and have a supply of the medicine to treat those who show to be infected. 

Lets face it, no one requires a HIV test before entering a country but here is a virus that is incurable.  Yes you have to have sexual contact in order to contract it but you certainly may not know if your partner has the virus.  That is no different than sitting next to a person who may have covid and transmit it to you.  The difference is with one you will likely recover with HIV at best you will face a life of antivirals. 

While I do not agree with some of the things you say in your posts in this thread, a lot of it makes absolute sense.  But the pandemic started and they implemented their control measures - that cannot be changed.  You are making some sense but you are like a person in the middle of a stampede trying to tell people to calm down - many cant, some wont, and most cant hear you.  Your points made will be discussed by other sane people in charge (not too many of them I am afraid) while they monitor the pandemic's spread and this third wave and its outcome.  At some point the 'group think' will move from panic towards calm - but it will be like before - disjointed illogical and inconsistent. 

Meanwhile, get vaccinated and get a booster, and practice social distancing - and obey whatever rules are in place where you are located.  And dont travel internationally - wait.  

[AussieBob]

Just now, AussieBob said:

While I do not agree with some of the things you say in your posts in this thread, a lot of it makes absolute sense.  But the pandemic started and they implemented their control measures - that cannot be changed.  You are making some sense but you are like a person in the middle of a stampede trying to tell people to calm down - many cant, some wont, and most cant hear you.  Your points made will be discussed by other sane people in charge (not too many of them I am afraid) while they monitor the pandemic's spread and this third wave and its outcome.  At some point the 'group think' will move from panic towards calm - but it will be like before - disjointed illogical and inconsistent. 

Meanwhile, get vaccinated and get a booster, and practice social distancing - and obey whatever rules are in place where you are located.  And dont travel internationally if you can avoid it - wait.  

 

[Jayce]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

I actually agree with you on your isolation plan 

Mexico has that in place

And some hotels even have deals that if you test positive that they will give you a hotel room in their "isolation wing" for free while you isolate

But I still believe anyone visiting another country should not be against doing whatever that country deems necessary to mitigate spread

I'd prefer to be tested, and yes, it does help the community overall

Apologies if I misunderstood your intentions wrt the villa isolation. In the context of the rest of your message I had misinterpreted that part.

For the record, I would never not do what the country has decided to do of course! IF I would decide to come and I need to get tested on arrival and on day 7, plus my country requires that I test 72 hours before my return flight, then of course I would comply with all those things as I have entered into that agreement knowing full well what I headed into. 

But that's IF I decide to come after carefully weighing up all the pros and cons and does not automactically imply that I agree to the approach. I do agree that being a guest in someone else's country you have to be respectful of their laws and traditions, doesn't automatically mean you should not or could not be morally/ethically/logically against any of those laws though. I'm sure if you lived in China or Russia or any of those places for a while you would understand that better.

That also means that if the rules get changed on you halfway through, that that is a lot less easy to accept. So for those who have their Thai pass and flight tickets at the ready, it must have come as a bit of a shock to see that second test introduced as the implications for a person's holiday could be huge! Not everyone will have the luxury of re-evaluating and potentially canceling based on this new info without significant loss of $$$ so not really a great thing to see happen as it increases the volatility of the Thai tourist sector immeasurably.

 

The issue I have with toursists being overly tested in itself is that it is simply an unfair treatment compared to how Thais are being treated. Extra checks on the couple of thousands tourists is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of Thais that go untested whereas the consequences for those tourists are a lot more far reaching compared to the Thai so where is the value or common sense in this test approach? 

I'm not even going to hint at ulterior financial motives or other conspiracy theories as that does not make sense from an overal economical point of view for Thailand. It's just that it seems to me to be a knee-jerk and very illogical reaction that is only put in place to create the appearance by this government that they are doing all they can to protect the (physical) health of their people through xenophobia towards foreigners while completely overlooking any actual benefit from it when compared to the millions of untested Thai.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Jayce

[Marc26]

17 minutes ago, Jayce said:

Apologies if I misunderstood your intentions wrt the villa isolation. In the context of the rest of your message I had misinterpreted that part.

For the record, I would never not do what the country has decided to do of course! IF I would decide to come and I need to get tested on arrival and on day 7, plus my country requires that I test 72 hours before my return flight, then of course I would comply with all those things as I have entered into that agreement knowing full well what I headed into. 

But that's IF I decide to come after carefully weighing up all the pros and cons and does not automactically imply that I agree to the approach. I do agree that being a guest in someone else's country you have to be respectful of their laws and traditions, doesn't automatically mean you should not or could not be morally/ethically/logically against any of those laws though. I'm sure if you lived in China or Russia or any of those places for a while you would understand that better.

That also means that if the rules get changed on you halfway through, that that is a lot less easy to accept. So for those who have their Thai pass and flight tickets at the ready, it must have come as a bit of a shock to see that second test introduced as the implications for a person's holiday could be huge! Not everyone will have the luxury of re-evaluating and potentially canceling based on this new info without significant loss of $$$ so not really a great thing to see happen as it increases the volatility of the Thai tourist sector immeasurably.

The issue I have with toursists being overly tested in itself is that it is simply an unfair treatment compared to how Thais are being treated. Extra checks on the couple of thousands tourists is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of Thais that go untested whereas the consequences for those tourists are a lot more far reaching compared to the Thai so where is the value or common sense in this test approach? 

I'm not even going to hint at ulterior financial motives or other conspiracy theories as that does not make sense from an overal economical point of view for Thailand. It's just that it seems to me to be a knee-jerk and very illogical reaction that is only put in place to create the appearance by this government that they are doing all they can to protect the (physical) health of their people through xenophobia towards foreigners while completely overlooking any actual benefit from it when compared to the millions of untested Thai.

I don't disagree with any of that

 

I will say, from someone who has traveled and dealt with restrictions in a few different countries 

 

It's been stressful. Not in a health wise capacity but just worrying getting stuck 

 

Now if you have the time to be "stuck" than that takes away a lot of the stress

 

For me, it's my wife. Now having travelled with her during covid, I just know she would be super worried if she tested positive 

 

We are currently in the US and have decided to head back to Canada tomorrow 

 

We had a big family wedding and there were a few positive cases there

We tested negative but Omicron is ripping through the US now and we just want to get home and be done with any hassle

 

And like @AussieBob, I think I am going to hold up on leaving Canada for a while now.

 

Or like I told my sister....

Maybe just visit during the summer when we don't seem to have these spikes we do in the winter 

[Chatogaster]

2 hours ago, Alavan said:

Except the last data from the UK state that it is as bad as delta.

 

I think you are wrong.

The UKHSA does acknowledge that Omicron is milder in terms of likelihood of hospitalization. It doesn't yet commit to answering the question of whether or not that's enough to avoid a (too) large number of hospitalizations. https://www.politico.eu/article/omicron-variant-coronavirus-symptoms-milder-delta-uk-data/ which was published a couple of hours ago summarizes this neatly.

Depending on which definition of "mildness" you use, Omicron is either milder or its mildness is still (sigh...) unknown. Whichever way, your conclusion that Omicron has been determined to be at least as bad as Delta seems baseless (well... obviously your base is identified by "last data from the UK", but which data were you actually referring to?)

 

[longwood50]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

But the pandemic started and they implemented their control measures

Just remember, whether it is government or business, the majority of actions are initiated to  "create the illusion of progress" 

The government when pressed for answers on how they are responding to the pandemic finds it impossible to say, "not much any efforts are not really productive"

They have to put on a show.  They have to demonstrate to everyone their concern and that they are implementing every necessary step to insure the public's safety. Even though it is truly a Kabuki dance there merely to distract. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by longwood50

[Manu]

3 hours ago, Alavan said:

The situation in SA is not the same as in Europe.
Doctor Coetzee (a G.P.?) may be right about South Africa, but the average age of the population in Europe is not 24 years, but more than double of that. Also the temperature in Europe is a lot lower than in South Africa. Those are 2 factors which will change the result of the studies.
Just now UK scientists announced that omicron is as bad as delta.

Which uk scientists? Names? Some of them have conflicts of interest, very bad, they legally should not even be talking about. It is the law. But that suddenly does not matter anymore?

[AnoMoss]

So...

How am I supposed to get this +7 day RT-PCR test on Koh Lipe??

According to this the testing locations can be found here: https://service.dmsc.moph.go.th/labscovid19/indexen.php

We are taking off in a few days, and now scrambling to line this up.... so any help would be appreciated. 

[Alavan]

2 hours ago, Chatogaster said:

I think you are wrong.

The UKHSA does acknowledge that Omicron is milder in terms of likelihood of hospitalization. It doesn't yet commit to answering the question of whether or not that's enough to avoid a (too) large number of hospitalizations. https://www.politico.eu/article/omicron-variant-coronavirus-symptoms-milder-delta-uk-data/ which was published a couple of hours ago summarizes this neatly.

Depending on which definition of "mildness" you use, Omicron is either milder or its mildness is still (sigh...) unknown. Whichever way, your conclusion that Omicron has been determined to be at least as bad as Delta seems baseless (well... obviously your base is identified by "last data from the UK", but which data were you actually referring to?)

Not my conclusion. I am no virologist and follow what those specialists say.
And just today news from the UK anounces that it is just as bad as delta, not milder.
 

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

Which uk scientists? Names? Some of them have conflicts of interest, very bad, they legally should not even be talking about. It is the law. But that suddenly does not matter anymore?

I guess we will see confirmation in the next days.
I have this news from a national broadcast in a language you won't understand

 

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, Manu said:

Which uk scientists? Names? Some of them have conflicts of interest, very bad, they legally should not even be talking about. It is the law. But that suddenly does not matter anymore?

Imperial College London

[Mazz11]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:10 PM, Rangers said:

It will change again very soon when they realise how mild omicron is. Even the scaremongering media in the UK are starting to admit it.

I hope you are right, I just started to see a light at the end of the tunnel and was starting to plan a trip to see my fiancé.

Now everything is on hold again 

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I don't disagree with any of that

I will say, from someone who has traveled and dealt with restrictions in a few different countries 

It's been stressful. Not in a health wise capacity but just worrying getting stuck 

Now if you have the time to be "stuck" than that takes away a lot of the stress

For me, it's my wife. Now having travelled with her during covid, I just know she would be super worried if she tested positive 

We are currently in the US and have decided to head back to Canada tomorrow 

We had a big family wedding and there were a few positive cases there

We tested negative but Omicron is ripping through the US now and we just want to get home and be done with any hassle

And like @AussieBob, I think I am going to hold up on leaving Canada for a while now.

Or like I told my sister....

Maybe just visit during the summer when we don't seem to have these spikes we do in the winter 

Wise thinking mate - I hope other people realise the dangers of travelling internationally right now.  IMO the pandemic will start to abate in 2022 (hopefully early/mid), and with that the Govts will start to develop a new normal.  Australia has been extremely harsh and has kept the numbers extremely low - but Omicron is starting to spread fast and they cant seem to control it like they did the others - just as they started opening things back up for XMas and New Year.  Your point about winter in the North is spot on. 

 

[AussieBob]

9 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Just remember, whether it is government or business, the majority of actions are initiated to  "create the illusion of progress" 

The government when pressed for answers on how they are responding to the pandemic finds it impossible to say, "not much any efforts are not really productive"

They have to put on a show.  They have to demonstrate to everyone their concern and that they are implementing every necessary step to insure the public's safety. Even though it is truly a Kabuki dance there merely to distract. 

Absolutely true - whatever they do will either work and be all because of them, or it will fail and be the fault of someone else. 

Conspiracy or FUBAR??  99.9% of the time it is a FUBAR. They are not smart people - Mensa club members do not become politicians and public servants.   Sure - the wealthy and elite will 'influence' things to go the way that makes them more money. But basically a bunch of ignorant bureaucrats gave their recommendations, and the bent politicians chose which way to go - and make some more money in the process.  Until WHO/CDC declare the pandemic has abated and reached an 'acceptable level' (it aint ever going away) - until then 'they' will be continuing on with their 'control measures'.  Accepting that they will not put up their hands and say 'we give up' - there are no real alternatives for them.    

[LoongFred]

10 hours ago, Alavan said:

I guess we will see confirmation in the next days.
I have this news from a national broadcast in a language you won't understand

I don't understand. Most brits anyway at least when they pretend to talk down to others. I think that if the listener doesn't get it the speaker has failed.

[Rangers]

7 hours ago, Mazz11 said:

I hope you are right, I just started to see a light at the end of the tunnel and was starting to plan a trip to see my fiancé.

Now everything is on hold again 

I arrived here in phuket yesterday, the process couldn't have been any easier. Surprised at how busy Bangla road was too. 

[Faz]

On 12/22/2021 at 10:06 AM, Cait said:

To clarify the January 10th cut off date for those who have already registered under the Test & Go scheme, the Thai government released a graphic and post announcing the date. 

https://www.facebook.com/ThaigovSpokesman/posts/282239257272146

 

UPDATED! Exemption from Quarantine (TEST & GO) entry scheme from 22 December 2021 - TAT Newsroom

Posted in the Royal Thai Government Gazette - no mention of Jan 10th as a cut of date for those already approved for the Thailand Pass.

[Glenwood]

So, one question still remains for those who enter after 24 December and require the second PCR test in 5-6 days ... Will one be allowed to travel during that period, for example from Bangkok to Phuket, or will there be a requirement to stay in the same general location ?

[Beaker]

And U.K. has announced omicron is definately not a serious as delta. 

[MattBurgess]

33 minutes ago, Beaker said:

And U.K. has announced omicron is definately not a serious as delta. 

Can you provide a link to this? All I can ever find is people saying things, I've yet to find any official reports or studies, particularly on infection rates or severity of infection.

[Beaker]

7 minutes ago, MattBurgess said:

Can you provide a link to this? All I can ever find is people saying things, I've yet to find any official reports or studies, particularly on infection rates or severity of infection.

Omicron up to 70% less likely to need hospital care https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969
There you go. 

[JohninDublin]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:49 AM, Rangers said:

Just entered phuket and I have to say the process couldn't have been any easier, in the hotel now waiting on the pcr result. The system they have introduced at phuket airport is the most thorough and yet most simple I've seen across the world, they are putting Europe to shame. As usual the Thai's are the most helpful and caring people you could meet and therefore the process was quick and efficient, well done Thailand. Hope anyone who has their pass still continues with their plans because its worth it. 

Enjoy your trip, and please keep us informed of any developments that might impact those of us with imminent travel plans.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

And U.K. has announced omicron is definately not a serious as delta. 

That's simply not correct and a major misinterpretation of what was said.

44 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Omicron up to 70% less likely to need hospital care https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969
There you go. 

That does not mean that it's "not as serious" at all, far from it, either for individuals, the country or crucially the health service (in the UK or here).

As the article you linked to says very clearly: "Cases are currently very high in the UK, and even a relatively low proportion requiring hospitalisation could result in a significant number of people becoming seriously ill. ..... ..... There is also uncertainty about what will happen when Omicron reaches older age groups because most of those catching it and going into hospital so far have been under the age of 40.".

While the Imperial College study says that there's 15 - 20% less chance of needing hospital attention with Omicron than with Delta and 40 - 45% less chance of being admitted, if there are twice as many cases because it's twice as transmissible then you have some 50% more people needing hospital treatment and being admitted.

Current estimates are that Omicron is three to five times as transmissible / infectious as Delta, so the best case is that's well over double the number of people needing hospital treatment, ICU's etc.

Thailand also has far less people double vaccinated with mRNA vaccines or AZ than the UK, and far, far fewer treble vaccinated with them.

[JohninDublin]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:58 AM, Jayce said:

The issue I have with toursists being overly tested in itself is that it is simply an unfair treatment compared to how Thais are being treated. Extra checks on the couple of thousands tourists is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of Thais that go untested whereas the consequences for those tourists are a lot more far reaching compared to the Thai so where is the value or common sense in this test approach? 

I can see where you are coming from, but think about this: Yesterday, Asia, the most populous continent on the planet, reported 75k new cases. France, the US and the UK each had more infections than the whole of Asia. It is foreign travel that brings in the new variants. 

It may seem like racial profiling the way I am explaining this, but if foreign travel is the root cause of this, then it makes sense to me, to keep a particular eye on foreigners.

We are seeing plenty of cases of people boarding flights on the back of tests not older than 72 hours before take off. The closer the test is to actual take off, the less likely there will be a detectable viral load (VL). I am due to land 87 hours after my test, so it seems likely to me I might have an undetectable VL when I am tested, but when I arrive, it is detectable. But suppose I caught it in transit. I could almost certainly beat the landing test. Maybe the sensible thing to do is another test 5 days later which I understand the TH gov will pay for.

So why not test Thais as frequently as tourists? I think the answer to that is that the testing is meant to protect Thais from us, and not vice versa. Of course, it should be mentioned that having had two tests, does not guarantee that I will not be infected by a local close to the date of my second test and pass detection on that occasion.

I don't know where you are from, but in the UK, vehicles over a certain age are required to undergo what is known as the "MOT test". Basically, this is a test to make sure that all the safety components are working right down to light bulbs. A car can pass the test, drive out of the test station. and 5 minutes later a bulb could blow. That's the same problem that testing PCR presents. All the test does, is say you were ok at time of testing.