News Forum - PM Prayut urges a new Thailand focused on tourism, sustainability

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

If they can can do this as keeping all other tourists and the normal people who want to stay here out, then it is going to hurt a huge huge portion of the Thai folk. 50%? 70%? 80%? Can you imagine how many businesses will fold? My thought is they will create a double standard and allow the Chinese to come in.

This high end destinations are small areas or Islands like Monacco, St. Moritz, Singapore, Caribeans etc. Now take the size of Thailand abd the huge amounts of hotels, resorts, restaurants, shops, etc. With such nonsense you would kill min 90% of businesses in Thailand.

[Haole.TH]

If Prayuth wants "better" tourists and to make tourism sustainable, then something needs to be done about
1)  air quality - BKK is consistently unhealthy and CM is unhealthy for 2-3 months a year
2)  local mafia - Phuket mafia for taxis and tuk-tuk's needs to be handled
3)  police corruption - BKK is really bad; Koh Tao had its local mafia problem with the murdered Brit couple; Phuket has its problems too

Prayuth has had 7 yrs to do something (anything) and hasn't ....

Edited November 5, 2021 by Haole.TH

[HolyCowCm]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

You mean the zero budget bus tours with lowest quality tourists on earth who never left one baht in a restaurant. Every backpacker spent much more money in their vaction then them. This are the low end of tourism and you will never see them in any quality tourist destination around the world because they are a nightmare for any tourist destination. 

Not sure if they are the lowest quality, but I get what you mean. So yes them and then them who are on other group types of tours who do spend a little bit. For CM, the Chinese folk who are staying here do seem to have money and are probably inline as all the expats with money. When I was a young about mid 20's kid, I probably spent a thousand USD a week here. And that is on top of the airfare to get here. Do they not ever think that airfare is also money spent to get here? I never ever ever was a burden and paid my own way more than my share.

[LoongFred]

8 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You mean the zero budget bus tours with lowest quality tourists on earth who never left one baht in a restaurant. Every backpacker spent much more money in their vaction then them. This are the low end of tourism and you will never see them in any quality tourist destination around the world because they are a nightmare for any tourist destination. 

I don't see backpackers spending any sizeable abount of money. There nature is to spend as little as possible,  if there are high end backpackers,  I've never seem them.

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I don't see backpackers spending any sizeable abount of money. There nature is to spend as little as possible,  if there are high end backpackers,  I've never seem them.

Yes I saw the backpackers spent more than these chinese zero budget bus tours and everybody who live in Thailand experienced that. There spending is zero into the local businesses it is managed by chinese touroperators and paid in China. They operate the places they bring them restaurants, hotels. In Bali, europe, Malaysia, Lao, etc. yes you see a lot of backpackers who spend their money in guesthouses, hostels, in restaurants, bars, nightlife etc. But sure for people not travel around have no knowledge about or think sitting in front if a computer know anything what people experienced with this chinese zero budget bus tours in Thailand and shows you know nothing about it. Yes 100 % sure that every backpacker spend much more money than them and thats the fact everybody experienced in Thailand. you can ask any restaurant, bar , shops etc about their experience!

[Thommo]

5 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Yes I saw the backpackers spent more than these chinese zero budget bus tours and everybody who live in Thailand experienced that. There spending is zero into the local businesses it is managed by chinese touroperators and paid in China. They operate the places they bring them restaurants, hotels. In Bali, europe, Malaysia, Lao, etc. yes you see a lot of backpackers who spend their money in guesthouses, hostels, in restaurants, bars, nightlife etc. But sure for people not travel around have no knowledge about or think sitting in front if a computer know anything what people experienced with this chinese zero budget bus tours in Thailand and shows you know nothing about it. Yes 100 % sure that every backpacker spend much more money than them and thats the fact everybody experienced in Thailand. you can ask any restaurant, bar , shops etc about their experience!

This sounds ike you! a person characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, Thommo said:

This sounds ike you! a person characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group

Ok then talk to anybody in Bangkok or Pattaya about their real life experience about it. And maybe talk to sombody who is in the business and sombody who has also the competence in infrastructures, standards and how long it needs tp developp it and the money is needed. Tourist destinations always have a widespread offers in accomoditaions becaus they are orientated what the market is and also have offers in guesthouses etc as mentioned for lower budgets. Do you think anybody would offer it when there would be not a market or benefit. Or do you ever saw a guesthouse with a sign free rooms and food?. And people who think just by a wish I now want only high end tourists and have any brain and know the size of Thailand the huge amount of hotels, resorts, restaurants will be filled with high end tourists must be really a clown. And they even not understand the difference in standards, infrastructure. So even you want it sombody must realize it how long it would need to develop it and the money you would need to do it. And everybody who was in a high end know very well the difference or the difference in Singapore in the standards and infrastructure to Thailand or how long it needed to develop, not forget the size of Thailand compare to Singapore. Sorry but if somebody think this happen by a wish and will fall from the sky without doing anything must be lost his mind. To say from today we are a high end destination sounds like a comedy.

[Poolie]

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

You might be surprised how many are Thai only families live in the US. Drive expensive cars, own nice houses and their own businesses.

I'd be interested to learn how they qualified for residency..

[poohy]

44 minutes ago, Thommo said:

This sounds ike you! a person characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group

He is 100% correct !

Chinese zero dollar tours bring little or no money to the country

A backpacker even on a tight on budget would spend way more

[Poolie]

11 minutes ago, poohy said:

He is 100% correct !

Chinese zero dollar tours bring little or no money to the country

A backpacker even on a tight on budget would spend way more

 

Chinese visitors in Thailand 

Chinese visitors have an average length of stay of 8 days and spending per person of up to 41,390 Baht or 1,100 euros.   

Welcome to the present day. 

 

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Chinese visitors in Thailand 

Chinese visitors have an average length of stay of 8 days and spending per person of up to 41,390 Baht or 1,100 euros.   

Welcome to the present day. 

So where did that statistic come from please ?

[Stardust]

5 minutes ago, gummy said:

So where did that statistic come from please ?

Some will remember the statistic of the sanbox tourists we got from the tat it was devidet through tourists and days 270 000 baht per tourist and day. So if we would believe this numbers this westeners will even spend more a day like a chinese the whole holiday because including all costs. Anyway every tourists from europe will spend more on a 8 day trip than 1100 euros. For that amount you got not all costs covert a european spent on a holiday (flight,hotel, restaurant,bars, tours etc). But I said I guess nobody could believe this numbers we saw and nobody would use it like poolie. And it was about the zero dollar bus tours and that any backpacker would spent more money at the local businesses

[Bob20]

12 minutes ago, gummy said:

So where did that statistic come from please ?

 

The problem is with cheap Chinese package tourists. The average spend is $1275 for 8 days and it's spent mostly on half- or full board package tours, so the hotel and transport companies  (they choose mostly Chinese owned) do well, but the local economy profits little.

Europeans and Americans spend on average 50% more, and spend the majority in more than one hotel (as they tend to travel around), and spend money in a variety of restaurants and shops, benefitting the local people.

That's the main difference.

(Stats all pretty similar found in statista / several bank sites / wikepedia / Bangkok post)

 

[poohy]

36 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Chinese visitors in Thailand 

Chinese visitors have an average length of stay of 8 days and spending per person of up to 41,390 Baht or 1,100 euros.   

Welcome to the present day. 

Not the ones on ZERO THB tours (normal ones maybe ) but thats not what i am talking about

On Zero THB tours everything is paid up front in China maybe just a few THB goes to 7/11 any  souvenir's are also bought from shops owned outside Thailand

Very little cash would ever go normal Thai people

Edited November 5, 2021 by poohy

[gummy]

16 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

The problem is with cheap Chinese package tourists. The average spend is $1275 for 8 days and it's spent mostly on half- or full board package tours, so the hotel and transport companies  (they choose mostly Chinese owned) do well, but the local economy profits little.

Europeans and Americans spend on average 50% more, and spend the majority in more than one hotel (as they tend to travel around), and spend money in a variety of restaurants and shops, benefitting the local people.

That's the main difference.

(Stats all pretty similar found in statista / several bank sites / wikepedia / Bangkok post)

Could not find on Wiki any firm independentt references to Chinese tourist expenditure . BP would only use the propogand spewed out by the Thai government. So my question remains, where are the references to this expenditure ? The best I coud find are "estimates" again from non independent sources.

Some of you may recall several years ago the discussions on exactly how much currency was brought into Thailand by these tourists. I recall it was inconclusive  and there were suggestions that the major transport companies and hotel chains that accommodated the Chinese were mostly owned by the well connected families. Actually very little was remitted for such services by the Chinese tour operators, hence the allegation was that the Thai operators could write of millions of baht in costs against their companies whereas the Chinese were paying the real and reduced costs into overseas bank accounts of the Thai operators hence depriving Thailand of tax revenue from companies profits yet allowing the elite to basically launder money.  Now nothing was proved obviously, in fact as everything here , it all went quiet but it would not surprise me if these allegations had a ring of truth about them

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, gummy said:

Could not find on Wiki any firm independentt references to Chinese tourist expenditure . BP would only use the propogand spewed out by the Thai government. So my question remains, where are the references to this expenditure ? The best I coud find are "estimates" again from non independent sources.

Some of you may recall several years ago the discussions on exactly how much currency was brought into Thailand by these tourists. I recall it was inconclusive  and there were suggestions that the major transport companies and hotel chains that accommodated the Chinese were mostly owned by the well connected families. Actually very little was remitted for such services by the Chinese tour operators, hence the allegation was that the Thai operators could write of millions of baht in costs against their companies whereas the Chinese were paying the real and reduced costs into overseas bank accounts of the Thai operators hence depriving Thailand of tax revenue from companies profits yet allowing the elite to basically launder money.  Now nothing was proved obviously, in fact as everything here , it all went quiet but it would not surprise me if these allegations had a ring of truth about them

Not seen any of that, but the effect is the same: Very little benefitting the local economy.

[Stardust]

32 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

The problem is with cheap Chinese package tourists. The average spend is $1275 for 8 days and it's spent mostly on half- or full board package tours, so the hotel and transport companies  (they choose mostly Chinese owned) do well, but the local economy profits little.

Europeans and Americans spend on average 50% more, and spend the majority in more than one hotel (as they tend to travel around), and spend money in a variety of restaurants and shops, benefitting the local people.

That's the main difference.

(Stats all pretty similar found in statista / several bank sites / wikepedia / Bangkok post)

The gross net income in China is 600 usd. Now compare to western countries. Sure the gross net income of backpackers from a western country is much higher.

[LoongFred]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

Yes I saw the backpackers spent more than these chinese zero budget bus tours and everybody who live in Thailand experienced that. There spending is zero into the local businesses it is managed by chinese touroperators and paid in China. They operate the places they bring them restaurants, hotels. In Bali, europe, Malaysia, Lao, etc. yes you see a lot of backpackers who spend their money in guesthouses, hostels, in restaurants, bars, nightlife etc. But sure for people not travel around have no knowledge about or think sitting in front if a computer know anything what people experienced with this chinese zero budget bus tours in Thailand and shows you know nothing about it. Yes 100 % sure that every backpacker spend much more money than them and thats the fact everybody experienced in Thailand. you can ask any restaurant, bar , shops etc about their experience!

Your country might have a backpacker culture but Thailand doesn’t.  Young Thais are simply embarrassed to live like that . If you ask Thai people they will say  OK, because they  don't want to offend, but if you understand Thai you would understand they don't accept. Why do want to force your ways on them.

[poohy]

@gummyi used be in travel operations inbound into here what you said above is fair

One of the biggest bus companies which worked with inbound chinese tours was "disbanded" renamed or whatever

Tours are prepaid to agents in china and most also tenuously own hotels they use here

Fair enough to say the Chinese and their connections make the money and it doesn't benefit working people here

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by poohy

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, LoongFred said:

Your country might have a backpacker culture but Thailand doesn’t.  Young Thais are simply embarrassed to live like that . If you ask Thai people they will say  OK, because they  don't want to offend, but if you understand Thai you would understand they don't accept. Why do want to force your ways on them.

Omg you really don't know Thailand and you really dont know the islands , full moon parties, never been in koh chang. Now I see makes no sense with sombody who not live and not know Thailand wanna explain the people in Thailand. And the older generations remember very well the 80s, 90s, 2000s etc . What an absurd comment.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

The gross net income in China is 600 usd. Now compare to western countries. Sure the gross net income of backpackers from a western country is much higher.

Although I agree with your quoted difference in net-income between China and the west, backpackers aren't for the most part working people, but gap-year takers and/or folk being supported by parents or savings.

But that still doesn't change the fact that little Chinese money goes into the local economy.

[gummy]

1 minute ago, poohy said:

@gummyi used be in travel operations inbound into here what you said above is fair

One of the biggest bus companies which worked with inbound chinese tours was "disbanded" renamed or whatever

Tours are prepaid in china and most also tenuously own hotels they use here

Fair enough to say the Chinese and their connections make the money and it doesn't benefit working people here

Thanks for that supporting info and it illustrates how this corrupt administration, or rather adminstrations together with the Elite Thai families who mostly have  Chinese ancestry deprive the true Thais of so much yet think that they should be looked up to.

[poohy]

6 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Your country might have a backpacker culture but Thailand doesn’t.  Young Thais are simply embarrassed to live like that . If you ask Thai people they will say  OK, because they  don't want to offend, but if you understand Thai you would understand they don't accept. Why do want to force your ways on them.

He's talking about foreigner Backpackers not Thais

Also its not unheard of for 2 young Thais to check into a hotel room and be "joined by friends to save them buying a a room

I could write a book on tourist tales after 25 years in the game

[Stardust]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Omg you really don't know Thailand and you really dont know the islands , full moon parties, never been in koh chang. Now I see makes no sense with sombody who not live and not know Thailand wanna explain the people in Thailand. And the older generations remember very well the 80s, 90s, 2000s etc . What an absurd comment.

Oh and I forgot Bangkok who live in Bangkok ir is often there knows about, too. Ever heard about khao san road and all the surrounding ares there or Yaoworat, Chatuchak etc. this was really an absurd comment

[Stardust]

8 minutes ago, poohy said:

He's talking about foreigner Backpackers not Thais

Also its not unheard of for 2 young Thais to check into a hotel room and be "joined by friends to save them buying a a room

I could write a book on tourist tales after 25 years in the game

He doesnt know, he is the sort of guys who even want to explain your children born and raised in Thailand with Thaipassport about Thailand and how he knows it better while he is not living in Thailand.