Biden stands by decision to withdraw troops, says no leaving without ‘chaos ensuing’

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

Don't understand? I'm fick, me.

I only looked at his cap badge. Thats REME? The bloke second from the front.

I was referring to the soldier in the forefront with a chest full of high honours, who was descibed as an impostor. I rather doubt that claim.

[Poolie]

48 minutes ago, Fester said:

I was referring to the soldier in the forefront with a chest full of high honours, who was descibed as an impostor. I rather doubt that claim.

Take it up with the press. It was the whole point of the article. I'm not fussed either way. I only saw the REME bloke.

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Take it up with the press. It was the whole point of the article. I'm not fussed either way. I only saw the REME bloke.

And you described the SAS man as an impostor. 

[King Cotton]

 

Moderator's note:

A number of off-topic posts have been removed.

This is a serious debate and deserves better input than certain members are giving it.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

 

[vlad]

Today in the UK a news item was reported on about a " Refugee " that was allowed to enter the UK over the weekend on a mercy flight from Kabul. It is reported that he was on a watch list as a threat to the Country and concerns are now arising about criminals that have been freed from prison's in Afghan. This one was caught but how many have i wont say slipped in, are jihadist's.

[Marble-eye]

43 minutes ago, Fester said:

And you described the SAS man as an impostor. 

He is an imposter, his real name is Dave Harper from Bolton and he ended up being a total laughing stock for pretending to be an SAS soldier, he is a Walt. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/198461/revealed-ten-sick-cheats-who-pretend-to-be-hero-soldiers/

[Guest]

Anyway back to the topic in hand Joe Biden once again refused to take questions on the Afghanistan fiasco last night.

I honestly believe the best thing to come out of this whole situation is that the Biden Administration can no longer hide behind the MSM and people have seen how inept they are hopefully Americans remember this disaster (just one of many over the last 7 months) and vote some checks and balances back in the 2022 midterms.

And I'd just like to say again God Bless all the Coalition Troops on the ground in Kabul Airport at this moment (and unlike Joe Biden I actually mean it).

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

Today in the UK a news item was reported on about a " Refugee " that was allowed to enter the UK over the weekend on a mercy flight from Kabul. It is reported that he was on a watch list as a threat to the Country and concerns are now arising about criminals that have been freed from prison's in Afghan. This one was caught but how many have i wont say slipped in, are jihadist's.

Seen this on the news Vlad mate the only saving grace was he was picked up in the system although a bit late along the line.

I spoke with a mate off mine last night an ex Soldier who now worked for the UK Border force he told me the biggest problem their having is most off the People there removing from Kabul are not actually British folk but dual national Afghan's that had previously travelled to the UK to claim asylum or TPS (temporary protection status)  and had travelled back to Afghanistan without informing the authorities.

That's why the screening process is so slow as a lot off them are technically still registered as being in UK .

I presume most EU Countries and the US and Canada are experiencing the same problems. 

[Fester]

24 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

He is an imposter, his real name is Dave Harper from Bolton and he ended up being a total laughing stock for pretending to be an SAS soldier, he is a Walt. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/198461/revealed-ten-sick-cheats-who-pretend-to-be-hero-soldiers/

Fair enough - named and shamed - I couldn't check him out so I know why now. I should have not given him the benefit of the doubt with that mess of a tie! But I think you mean Roger Day?

[dmacarelli]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:04 PM, riclag said:

This is another reason why I like this forum !

We can talk and not worry about vicious  threats  of retaliation ,if we go against the political  agenda of the mods! 

Thanks Thethaiger

Absolutely, I cannot even begin to describe how many times I have been suspended by those "sold out folks" over there, who act as moderators. It often feels like we are living in China, under the CCP. 

Who knows what their agenda is, but it does not seem in any way, to be about supporting the ex-pat community. They are tyrants, and their skin is paper thin.

This forum is far more democratic and reasonable, and the moderators here are downright pleasant and seem to be doing a great job keeping us on point. Kudos to them for their work, and for running a great forum. We need you guys and we need a fair minded forum to express our opinions and thoughts. 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, 9S_ said:

....., Trump would drop America’s 2nd most powerful bomb (a nuclear bomb is #1) on them again like he did with ISIS along the AfghanistN-Pakistan border.

Drop it where, exactly?

4 hours ago, 9S_ said:

...Trump would drop another MOAB on their base ...

What "base"?

 

The MOAB dropped previously killed 36 (thirty six), BTW.

[Poolie]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Fair enough - named and shamed - I couldn't check him out so I know why now. I should have not given him the benefit of the doubt with that mess of a tie! But I think you mean Roger Day?

None needed.

[gavi]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:52 PM, 9S_ said:

It was Bidens decision he’s the president!

[...]

Not to mention Joe Biden literally reneged on Trumps deal. So in the end it’s Bidens fault. He’s the president when Kabul fell to the Taliban.

When Trump left Kabul controlled all provincial capitals. Not one fell to the taliban on Trumps last day in office. 
 

Joe Biden it all fell and the Taliban capture Afghanistan on Bidens watch. More like on his vacation. 

Overall, I agree, with a few added points I wish to make:

When Trump was elected, one of his promises the the electorate was to get out of the never ending wars. So there was a democratic mandate to exit: it was not an authoritarian idea, nor one dictated by the swamp/deep state/inter agency.

On the opposite, in the the recent article by Blair on Afghanistan, he calls "imbecilic" the idea of stopping the never ending wars(!). Meaning, "he" is in favor of never ending wars by USA/UK combo (I referred to Blair as "he", in quotes, meaning I think that these wars are pushed by his hidden-international-puppeteers/ swamp/deep-state/inter-agency, how you want to call them).

In fact, estimates are that about 2.5 trillion$ entered Afghanistan (officially for "bringing democracy" to the world) and only less than 10 billion$ were left in Afghanistan (and frozen by Biden). The vast majority of this money entered - and quickly exited Afghanistan - and accumulated in the hands of a few people, who have got a huge interest in never ending wars.

By the way, Blair complained in his article about the fact that US democracy caused the interruption of the wars. And even more, he complained that the USA took the decision of withdrawing without involving the UK (which is a totally ludicrous expectation, unless one remembers where Christopher Steel is from).

 

About Trump, he negotiated with the Taliaban a plan to get out in a proper, orderly, manner.

Never under Trump there was any, objective, bad-reputation problem in foreign affairs:  hence there is not reason at all to believed that Afghanistan would have been a worse debacle than Vietnam.

By the way, one should look at how the USSR withdrew from Afghanistan for the best example of how proper withdrawing should be conducted, maintaining the best possible reputation, given the circumstances of the event.

Biden did not negotiate with the taliban: he just unilaterally voided the Trump's-Taliban agreement by unilaterally scrapping the agreed deadline of May 2021.

About whether Biden was misdirected by the USA secret agencies, or whether he took a decision against their advice:

this is not clear yet: in the past the agencies lied, not only to the public, but the the presidents as well (Trump famously did not care to hear their daily reporting because he suspected that it was politically motivated and not the real news). There is an argument to be made that the deep state wanted president Kamala, not Biden, and might try to push Biden out before the end of his mandate.

What is clear is that there were youtubers, already one month, ago pointing out that the Taliban was winning cities very quickly, even cities controlled by the other tribes, meaning that "the people" there preferred to be liberated by the Taliban than to stay under the (feminist, colorful, very corrupt, "infedel") puppet government of the last 20 years.

Meaning, observers/Biden did not need the secret-services to know that, in the last few weeks, the Taliban has been very quickly winning, and was in a much stronger position than it was reported officially by the media.

====================

So far, I tried to write the fact and keep my opinion to a minim. My opinion, is that the puppeteers behind Bush and Blair (and behind so many western governments' politicians, media, etc.) want never ending wars, and despise democracy, and national/ethnic identity.

Not a new concept: if one looks at "families" that, in last few hundred years, became hyper-rich, one sees that creating wars was one of their most lucrative "businesses".

Hence, especially in the UK, but also from many influencers, we hear about the need to continue the war in Afghanistan (UK), keep bringing "Democracy" to the world (while condemning imperialism, of course), and, obviously, getting as many refugees as possible from the recently bombarded countries. This is clearly what is desired by the puppeteers: unless a person is totally blinded by propaganda, how can one wish war on anyone ....

Edited August 24, 2021 by gavi

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, Fester said:

You are being selective with the text cuts - in the VDO Bolton also said he thinks that Biden "bears primary resposibility" for the way the withdrawal was handled - and that's the real issue here.

I would have thought the real issue was whether anyone could have done it any better, and if so, how.

So far, ideas for that are pretty thin on the ground.

5 hours ago, Fester said:

And re your 41747 post - it's inquiry, not enquiry - I know you like to remind peeps of the proper meaning of words and abbreviations....

Sorry, not so.

American and British English prefer one or the other,  but Australian English is ambivalent.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, vlad said:

Today in the UK a news item was reported on about a " Refugee " that was allowed to enter the UK over the weekend on a mercy flight from Kabul. It is reported that he was on a watch list as a threat to the Country and concerns are now arising about criminals that have been freed from prison's in Afghan. This one was caught but how many have i wont say slipped in, are jihadist's.

No, he was on a watch list but not as a "threat to the country" so he was held initially in Birmingham then released.

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, 9S_ said:

And we gave it to them. To the tune of $85 Billion

Well, yes ... odd that you haven't said who "we" was here ... or maybe not.

7 hours ago, 9S_ said:

Except that Bush wanted to leave but his military, pentagon and intelligence advisors told him not to, he complied

Obama too wanted to leave but his military, pentagon and intelligence advisors told him not to, he too complied

Trump also wanted to leave but his military, pentagon and intelligence advisers told him not to, he too complied

Joe Biden received ample and dire warnings but he didn’t listen. He went ahead.

So America should have stayed until the pentagon and intelligence get around to finally admitting that they stuffed up big time, and the military get around to admitting that they can't do anything to stop getting their arse well and truly kicked?

They'd be there for a long time .....

[9S_]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Drop it where, exactly?

Wherever the terrorists are. Most likely around the Afghanistan-Pakistan border again. 

 

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

What "base"?

The MOAB dropped previously killed 36 (thirty six), BTW.

Along with their main HQ in Afghanistan. And it sent a very good message. 
 

They only attacked in force when Biden was in office in mid-April

[9S_]

19 minutes ago, Stonker said:

So America should have stayed until the pentagon and intelligence get around to finally admitting that they stuffed up big time, and the military get around to admitting that they can't do anything to stop getting their arse well and truly kicked?

And looked what happened to Biden’s execution of withdrawal. The Taliban, under Biden, have gained more territory than the start of the war and are better equipped than at the start of the war. This is Bidens plan 

 

Also this about execution of withdrawal. No doubt many people agree we should withdraw but not in this sense. Withdrawal should have been waaaay better. Unfortunately this Joe Bidens failed execution. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by 9S_
Context withdrawal vs execution

[Fester]

21 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I would have thought the real issue was whether anyone could have done it any better, and if so, how.

So far, ideas for that are pretty thin on the ground.

Sorry, not so.

American and British English prefer one or the other,  but Australian English is ambivalent.

Well, as it couldn't have been done any worse, your issue/question is rather superfluous. Ideas and action required now are how to best mitigate this awful situation. I'm sure that a series of future inquiries will look back to see what could have been done better and who could have done it.

Australian and American English both use inqury w.r.t. a formal investigation. 

[Stonker]

25 minutes ago, Fester said:

Well, as it couldn't have been done any worse, your issue/question is rather superfluous. 

Hardly.

If it couldn't have been done any better, then my question's as pertinent as it gets!

29 minutes ago, Fester said:

Ideas and action required now are how to best mitigate this awful situation. 

Well, so far nobody in politics or any position of authority or responsibility has any "ideas", any more than anyone here does.

- and with a week to go before the fat lady sings, it's pretty clear there aren't going to be any.

33 minutes ago, Fester said:

I'm sure that a series of future inquiries will look back to see what could have been done better and who could have done it

I'm sure they won't.

Name any, in the UK or USA, that have had any effect. Any at all.

[Stonker]

46 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

And looked what happened to Biden’s execution of withdrawal. The Taliban, under Biden, have gained more territory than the start of the war and are better equipped than at the start of the war. This is Bidens plan 

Also this about execution of withdrawal. No doubt many people agree we should withdraw but not in this sense. Withdrawal should have been waaaay better. Unfortunately this Joe Bidens failed execution. 

Well, feel free to explain how it could have been done "waaay better".

 

My suggestion, FWIW, was that the only way it could have been done "waaay better" would have been i) to stage the process over two years, so if you want to withdraw by Aug 31 2021 you start in Aug 2019, etc, and  ii) not give away your assets to those you should know are only going to give them away in turn but admit that you've failed.

 

I'm sorry to say it, but despite a lot of tub thumping nobody else here has come up with anything else, let alone anything better, so go ahead .....

[Poolie]

6 hours ago, Fester said:

And you described the SAS man as an impostor. 

 

5 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

He is an imposter, his real name is Dave Harper from Bolton and he ended up being a total laughing stock for pretending to be an SAS soldier, he is a Walt. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/198461/revealed-ten-sick-cheats-who-pretend-to-be-hero-soldiers/

Ahem.

[Stonker]

49 minutes ago, Fester said:

Australian and American English both use inqury w.r.t. a formal investigation. 

FWIW, being rather petty, who mentioned "a formal investigation"?

I didn't.

That's the second step, once your initial enquiry / inquiry establishes that a B of I's required.

[9S_]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, feel free to explain how it could have been done "waaay better".

My suggestion, FWIW, was that the only way it could have been done "waaay better" would have been i) to stage the process over two years, so if you want to withdraw by Aug 31 2021 you start in Aug 2019, etc, and  ii) not give away your assets to those you should know are only going to give them away in turn but admit that you've failed.

I'm sorry to say it, but despite a lot of tub thumping nobody else here has come up with anything else, let alone anything better, so go ahead .....

Easy anything Biden did, do not do

[gavi]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

I would have thought the real issue was whether anyone could have done it any better, and if so, how.

When the Soviets left Afghanistan, they had a general there (by comparison, now, it is still not clear who is the senior responsible in the airport, what is his seniority, etc from the USA side).

That general had leadership (he was the last person to physically leave the country, for example).

The puppet government left behind by the USSR was winning many battles, and collapsed after years, and only after and because the USSR itself collapsed.

The Soviets left with parades, with prior announcements, with a step by step plan, etc.... not like a thieve in the night, not telling anyone, even their allies.

The Soviets destroyed what could not be used by the puppet government, and kept intelligence to understand who was on their side and who wasn't. The USA left weapons behind, and even their own archives so that they do not even know who can be trusted as an Afghanistan who worked for the USA/its allies and who is just trying to infiltrate, having had casualties in their families due to drone bombardments, and hence not being friendly when in the West.

Now, all the allies of the USA know that they cant be trusted in similar situations and, at the next invasion, it will be more difficult to get local support given the level of betrayal operated on their Afghan supporters.

A huge could have been done better, and the USA of the past, would have done it well.

There are very clear historical examples of how to withdraw relatively successfully.

If someone is interested in more details about the Soviet withdrawal, for comparison to the US one, PM me and I will share some info.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by gavi