I Am Ashamed of the UK

[cowslip]

31 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Considering that your post is 100% one-sided seems to me to make it a simplistic view.  Or perhaps the proper term is a slanted view.

you seem to have difficulty is realising what an argument is - it appears you disagree but are incapable of voicing your own opinion - read the OP and then realise that any opinion has to be based on evidence and reason and will ALWAYS appear to the bootless and unhorsed to be "one-sided" - that's the whole point.

[cowslip]

46 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The ages of humanity are well documented and defined.  The Stone Age, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, the Middle Ages, the Late Middle Ages, the Early Modern Period, etc.  Ours will be known as the Age Of Corruption.  

I am ashamed, embarrassed, disgusted and angry about the whole world.  

But I am very hopeful nonetheless.  

You've missed out the "age of Reason"

[Tippaporn]

25 minutes ago, cowslip said:

you seem to have difficulty is realising what an argument is - it appears you disagree but are incapable of voicing your own opinion - read the OP and then realise that any opinion has to be based on evidence and reason and will ALWAYS appear to the bootless and unhorsed to be "one-sided" - that's the whole point.

Well, you did say this:

 

On 11/10/2023 at 3:20 PM, cowslip said:

Overall, the comment that Brexit is the best thing the UK ever did is a simplistic and misleading view of a complex issue.

I agree.  Arguments oftentimes are one-sided.  But issues are generally multi-faceted.  So you say the issue is complex but then go on to only give a one-sided argument which you favour.  Where is your analysis of this complex issue, which should at least cover specific concerns on both sides.  If one was interested in presenting an honest analysis, that is.

As to reason, well, every viewpoint is with reason.  And none are lacking of it.  Now the reasoning my be sound or not but that's to be argued.  Evidence is a bit trickier as there's generally a lot of cherry picking of evidence.  There's evidence which supports one's argument and then there's evidence which doesn't.  That non-supportive usually gets promptly discarded and certainly mention of it is avoided.

I didn't voice my own opinion as I thought Pinetree and oldschooler did a crack up job and anything I could say would just be redundant.  But I will say that sovereignty is my primary reason for supporting Brexit.  The rest of the issues growing out of it will work themselves out in due time.  The Brits are a strong and capable lot and have survived well these past 1,300 years.  A little thing like a divorce is not as bad as some crack it up to be.  People have a tendency sometimes to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

[Tippaporn]

47 minutes ago, cowslip said:

You've missed out the "age of Reason"

Everything comes with reason.  Even if it's twisted.

[oldschooler]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:28 PM, cowslip said:

27 countries = EU

Maybe six countries of any importance or significance with even those mostly with “ progressive” Islam - friendly weak traitor Govts, with their hands out draining funds and not properly supporting NATO.
Good Riddance……

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, you did say this:

I agree.  Arguments oftentimes are one-sided.  But issues are generally multi-faceted.  So you say the issue is complex but then go on to only give a one-sided argument which you favour.  Where is your analysis of this complex issue, which should at least cover specific concerns on both sides.  If one was interested in presenting an honest analysis, that is.

As to reason, well, every viewpoint is with reason.  And none are lacking of it.  Now the reasoning my be sound or not but that's to be argued.  Evidence is a bit trickier as there's generally a lot of cherry picking of evidence.  There's evidence which supports one's argument and then there's evidence which doesn't.  That non-supportive usually gets promptly discarded and certainly mention of it is avoided.

I didn't voice my own opinion as I thought Pinetree and oldschooler did a crack up job and anything I could say would just be redundant.  But I will say that sovereignty is my primary reason for supporting Brexit.  The rest of the issues growing out of it will work themselves out in due time.  The Brits are a strong and capable lot and have survived well these past 1,300 years.  A little thing like a divorce is not as bad as some crack it up to be.  People have a tendency sometimes to make mountains out of mole hills.

You really are having touble coming to grasp with this, aren't you?

You make ridiculous assumptions and seem to think they are facts - what the hell do you think "sovereignty" is? - Apart from flat-earth's cousin?

[Manu]

7 hours ago, WilliamG said:

Well I was led to Wikipedia after I Googled, or was it Bingled, the name of the Japanese actress who died. Nothing left-leaning there!

A Japanese actress who died? Sure nothing left leaning there. She was also Japanese.. or a monkey, no political views to be expected so.

[Tippaporn]

7 hours ago, cowslip said:

10 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, you did say this:

I agree.  Arguments oftentimes are one-sided.  But issues are generally multi-faceted.  So you say the issue is complex but then go on to only give a one-sided argument which you favour.  Where is your analysis of this complex issue, which should at least cover specific concerns on both sides.  If one was interested in presenting an honest analysis, that is.

As to reason, well, every viewpoint is with reason.  And none are lacking of it.  Now the reasoning my be sound or not but that's to be argued.  Evidence is a bit trickier as there's generally a lot of cherry picking of evidence.  There's evidence which supports one's argument and then there's evidence which doesn't.  That non-supportive usually gets promptly discarded and certainly mention of it is avoided.

I didn't voice my own opinion as I thought Pinetree and oldschooler did a crack up job and anything I could say would just be redundant.  But I will say that sovereignty is my primary reason for supporting Brexit.  The rest of the issues growing out of it will work themselves out in due time.  The Brits are a strong and capable lot and have survived well these past 1,300 years.  A little thing like a divorce is not as bad as some crack it up to be.  People have a tendency sometimes to make mountains out of mole hills.

You really are having touble coming to grasp with this, aren't you?

You make ridiculous assumptions and seem to think they are facts - what the hell do you think "sovereignty" is? - Apart from flat-earth's cousin?

Point out the specific assumptions which you deem ridiculous and we can go from there to try to see whose reasoning is valid and whose is not.  As I said, there is nothing, no conclusion is ever drawn, that is without reason.  Although not all reasoning leads to a true and accurate reflection of bedrock reality.

Now we should at least start by agreeing on the definition of terms.  I'll begin with the definition of sovereign.

1) a person who has supreme power or authority.

2) a group or body of persons or a state having sovereign authority.

Does that definition agree with you?  If not, then define it for yourself.

[1000YearVampire]

I see the UK was the only country to abstain on the Security Council resolution to stop the slaughter in Gaza. Makes you think a bit, doesn't it.

[Pinetree]

6 hours ago, 1000YearVampire said:

I see the UK was the only country to abstain on the Security Council resolution to stop the slaughter in Gaza. Makes you think a bit, doesn't it.

I think it was more likely to be a behind the scenes deal, that UK would abstain while the US used its veto.  Either way, the UN has been irrelevant in World politics and diplomacy almost from its establishment.  

[1000YearVampire]

7 hours ago, Pinetree said:

UN has been irrelevant

True enough, but things may be changing. I'll wait and see how this whole Gaza issue pans out.

[Pinetree]

26 minutes ago, 1000YearVampire said:

True enough, but things may be changing. I'll wait and see how this whole Gaza issue pans out.

Then I hope that you live to be at least 300 years old, because it won't be solved in anyone's lifetime who is around right now. 

[PhuketBloke]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:17 AM, oldschooler said:

That’s Western Europe not the EU. I know you think EU is Western Europe but ……it’s not….. not even close,……sorry.

Today of all days let us remember that it was the British Commonwealth and USA who liberated Western Europe in 1945 ……..the same Europe which created and built both Fascism and Communism there…….ironic, is is not …… ? 

I think if you look into the details you will see it was Russia who liberated most of Europe in 1945, up to 1944 they were more or less fighting the Germans single-handedly.

By the end of the war they had pushed the Germans back to Berlin, they had produced tanks, planes, and other weapons at a startling rate, and had the Germans at their mercy.

The British and the Americans did a little bit of fighting for a year between 1944 and 1945, they just mopped up the remnants of the already defeated German army.

True it was the British and Americans who physically marched into places like Paris and Brussels but most of the Germans had done a runner back to Belin a long time before they arrived.

The allies hung back from invading Berlin as they would rather the Russians lost their lives rather than their soldiers.

Plus we had to make sure they stopped at Berlin and did not take over the rest of Europe as it would have been a problem getting rid of them once they settled.

They then kept the territory they had captured from Eastern Europe.

I wonder how the Russians feel when the West claims to have freed Western Europe, they probably laugh into their vodka.

But the Americans did indeed liberate the countries occupied by the Japanese single-handedly more or less. 

 

[oldschooler]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:22 PM, PhuketBloke said:

I think if you look into the details you will see it was Russia who liberated most of Europe in 1945, up to 1944 they were more or less fighting the Germans single-handedly.

By the end of the war they had pushed the Germans back to Berlin, they had produced tanks, planes, and other weapons at a startling rate, and had the Germans at their mercy.

The British and the Americans did a little bit of fighting for a year between 1944 and 1945, they just mopped up the remnants of the already defeated German army.

True it was the British and Americans who physically marched into places like Paris and Brussels but most of the Germans had done a runner back to Belin a long time before they arrived.

The allies hung back from invading Berlin as they would rather the Russians lost their lives rather than their soldiers.

Plus we had to make sure they stopped at Berlin and did not take over the rest of Europe as it would have been a problem getting rid of them once they settled.

They then kept the territory they had captured from Eastern Europe.

I wonder how the Russians feel when the West claims to have freed Western Europe, they probably laugh into their vodka.

But the Americans did indeed liberate the countries occupied by the Japanese single-handedly more or less. 

UK Commonwealth fought Nazi Germany Sept 39 to Dec 41 Land Sea Air.

Before Soviet Union were of any use in fighting Germany beyond consuming bullets shells manpower when dying in millions. 
UK - USA- Canada -Australia fought in France Italy North Africa,Pacific India conducted D Day Invasion of France and destroyed German Industry by Air & Sea. Provided 44 million tons of Materials to S Union. 

Rusiia incapable of any large Air or Sea Operations and left fighting Japan to West.

 

[cowslip]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

UK Commonwealth fought Nazi Germany Sept 39 to Dec 41 Land Sea Air.

Before Soviet Union were of any use in fighting Germany beyond consuming bullets shells manpower when dying in millions. 
UK - USA- Canada -Australia fought in France Italy North Africa,Pacific India conducted D Day Invasion of France and destroyed German Industry by Air & Sea. Provided 44 million tons of Materials to S Union. 

Rusiia incapable of any large Air or Sea Operations and left fighting Japan to West.

Ah - a different world war to the one I know? - What about Japan and the USA?

[Thaidup]

Even as a low income uneducated Australian, I saw this coming to most western countries over 20 years ago, it was obvious to anyone working on the ground, we were getting taxed on beer and smokes more and more.

If you had a job back then you paid more and more tax to pay for people from other countries to have a free house and food paid for and then they got discounts on public transport aswell.

I said to myself, bugger this Im out. now Im in Thailand.

I wrecked my body by working as often as i can to make enough money to get out, but now im happy just knowing im not getting screwed over to pay for other people.

[Thaidup]

I will wait and see but even blokes like Conner McGregor are having a chance of winning in politics.

People have just had enough.

[Thaidup]

People have had enough of paying for everone elses problems to the point of higher tax and higher prices, and then they tell you that if your kid is confused the kid is definatley trans.

[Thaidup]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:43 AM, Pinetree said:

I am ashamed, embarrassed, disgusted and angry about the UK,  Reasons:

The Covid mess and the Inquiry evidence

Boris and his bunch of incompetent's, who are still in power

HS2, Heathrow, All UK Airports, BA, the rail system, the horribly inadequate road system, pathetic fast internet coverage, water companies incompetence 

An incompetent Civil Service

A destroyed military.

Inclusion and diversity madness.

A feckless, lazy, WFH obsessed workforce, who want above inflation pay rises to do less work.

A broken banking and insurance industry

A corrupt, incompetent Police Service allowing terrorist sympathizers to hold a rally on Remembrance Day and won't react to burglaries, and do nothing about the  Stop Oil lunatics blocking the Kings Highway. 

Thank goodness I am out of the place and I will never go back, not even to visit.   A 'First World Country'?  I think not.  

I can echo everything you said, from an Aussie point of view, however, not embarrassed, I feel that we outsmarted them, And I know the day will come that they start legislation to try and stop us from leaving via taxes and such, so keep an eye on what they are doing and get ready to sell everything you have and bring over to Singapore or a country like that in gold.

It seems like the anti capitalists will carry on this way until we all leave with our money and then they realize they have no-one left to pay for their welfare.

[Thaidup]

Here living in Thailand I have freedom,

even a friend from Singapore reiterated this to me several years ago

Even during the covid lockdowns I could go where I wanted no vacc,

Still no vacc can do what i want.

But I have noticed an big uptick in older people suddenly dead lately.

[Thaidup]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:06 PM, 23RD said:

The Metropolitan Police Farce showing their impartiality at Saturday's Pro Hamas March as this morning The Home Secretary gets sacked for stating the obvious. 

Reminds me of Jan 6 in DC, lol.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Thaidup said:

im not getting screwed over to pay for other people.

the perfect putz!

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

Ah - a different world war to the one I know? - What about Japan and the USA?

USA & Pacific are mentioned. Context was countering a post that SU liberated Europe and West did “ little fighting”. I was actually informed by a Russian that SU liberated all Europe without western allies.Had never heard of DDay…..

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

the perfect putz!

Is that from a person that want's to leave the UK but cant get the balls to do it perspective or is it from a person that has all his ducks in a row perspective?

Its a big deal to decide to get up and walk away from your birth country,but those people with influence,money, political purse, don't give a shite about us on the trenches, we are all nothing but consumers to them, get out while you have the chance and let them deal with what they are doing when the shite hit the fan.

[Thaidup]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:43 AM, Pinetree said:

I am ashamed, embarrassed, disgusted and angry about the UK,  Reasons:

The Covid mess and the Inquiry evidence

Boris and his bunch of incompetent's, who are still in power

HS2, Heathrow, All UK Airports, BA, the rail system, the horribly inadequate road system, pathetic fast internet coverage, water companies incompetence 

An incompetent Civil Service

A destroyed military.

Inclusion and diversity madness.

A feckless, lazy, WFH obsessed workforce, who want above inflation pay rises to do less work.

A broken banking and insurance industry

A corrupt, incompetent Police Service allowing terrorist sympathizers to hold a rally on Remembrance Day and won't react to burglaries, and do nothing about the  Stop Oil lunatics blocking the Kings Highway. 

Thank goodness I am out of the place and I will never go back, not even to visit.   A 'First World Country'?  I think not.  

You guys effed up back in 1948, giving citizenship away.