News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[Grumpish]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:48 PM, KRLMRX said:

another lie, unfortunately. and I ask you to stop fighting Stalin. Look to the future.

Why Stalin Created Israel.

The absolute majority of Western politicians opposed the appearance on the world map of an independent Jewish state. Therefore, almost all researchers of this issue agree that it was Stalin and Soviet diplomacy who played a decisive role in the creation of Israel.

https://cultureoeuvre.com/10830188-why-stalin-created-israel

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The Soviet Union switched sides and became opposed to Israel shortly after when it was realised that it would not become the communist state that he thought it would.

And vilifying Stalin is perfectly valid, considering the brutally repressive regime that he presided over, a regime that was responsible for many millions of deaths. 

[Vigo]

  On 10/14/2023 at 2:38 PM, 1234567 said:

"Beheaded babies":
Do you have some proof of this, other than your lunatic tailing of babbling of IDF soldier, who said he "saw" them, but no one else have seen them?

What is the point in repeating that bullshit? Do you yourself believe into it, or just WANT to believe so?

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https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/hamas-children-israel

Documents found on dead Hamas terrorists reveal plan to target children: reports Other documents show Hamas hit squads were directed to 'achieve the highest level of human losses' and then take hostages as human shields.

You want photos. Fine. is children's bedroom where child was murdered bloody enough?. Do you like the bloodied sheets? is the burnt  baby that had been bashed against the wall, with the room then set on fire satisfying for you?

Need more? There are  some more burnt infants; Do you like the one of the  stabbed  baby? And then you  will probably enjoy the one of the  young woman who had her clothes ripped off as she was sexually assaulted while be driven back as a hostage. Those Hamas males sure respect  women. Do you have a similar view?

All of these images are taken from Israeli Government initial first response image recording. There are many, many more that cannot be released because they are very extreme and upsetting to civilized people.

[cowslip]

  On 10/10/2023 at 8:04 AM, Pinetree said:

Says who?  Please keep your uninformed  opinions to yourself , instead of badging it as 'news' . 

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So you think it's OK to behave like animals?

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 10/15/2023 at 7:36 PM, Vigo said:

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/hamas-children-israel

Documents found on dead Hamas terrorists reveal plan to target children: reports Other documents show Hamas hit squads were directed to 'achieve the highest level of human losses' and then take hostages as human shields.

You want photos. Fine. is children's bedroom where child was murdered bloody enough?. Do you like the bloodied sheets? is the burnt  baby that had been bashed against the wall, with the room then set on fire satisfying for you?

Need more? There are  some more burnt infants; Do you like the one of the  stabbed  baby? And then you  will probably enjoy the one of the  young woman who had her clothes ripped off as she was sexually assaulted while be driven back as a hostage. Those Hamas males sure respect  women. Do you have a similar view?

All of these images are taken from Israeli Government initial first response image recording. There are many, many more that cannot be released because they are very extreme and upsetting to civilized people.

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Ah yes ..

The beheaded babies..

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/cnn-reporter-apologizes-for-defending-israeli-claims-that-hamas-beheaded-babies-/3019286

Time to step back ..

https://www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16974058396033&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fopinions%2F2023%2F10%2F13%2Fwatching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Still waiting for the Kingdom of Saul map covering much of modern day KSA btw...

[TheDirtyDurian]

"The beheaded babies tale originated with a report on Israel’s i24News site by reporter Nicole Zedeck, from her interview with Israeli reserve soldier David Ben Zion. Max Blumenthal and Alexander Rubinstein reported on October 11 that Ben Zion is a notorious radical leader in Israel’s West Bank settler movement. Among other things, he called on rampaging armed settlers earlier this year to wipe out the Palestinian village of Harawa, which settlers attacked and burned several times.

Media around the world quickly picked up the i24News report, and the Israeli Prime Minister’s spokesman said that babies and toddlers “with their heads decapitated” had been found at the site. CNN, among others, reported beheadings and “ISIS-style executions”. When journalists asked a spokesman for the Israeli military about the story, the reply was, “We cannot confirm but you can assume it happened.”

Within days, though, the Israeli foreign ministry and armed forces and some correspondents said there was no evidence for the beheadings, and the White House said that Biden was quoting press reports he’d read. It seemed clear by October 12 that no evidence existed to confirm the baby beheadings story. It was fake news, planted by an ideological warrior to stoke tensions in the heat of battle.

 

But the damage was done, and wildfire-like social media spreading of fake news had influenced millions of people around the world – mostly by intensifying existing ideological or cultural fault lines and confrontations."

If anyone has better sources, please share ..

First casualty of war is always the truth....

[BainaiThai]

I cannot fix the past....I can talk about it (sheeesh 7 pages) but there is nothing I can do about it...

There are Hamas killing  mostly non Palistiniens and Isralies killing mostly non Israilies.  

I cannot fix the past...how do I stop the killing...What is the best realistic (not involving just one party) way to end this conflict.

[Metoo]

  On 10/16/2023 at 12:11 AM, BainaiThai said:

What is the best realistic (not involving just one party) way to end this conflict.

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However possible, the Palestinian people must be encouraged to inform Israeli troops the whereabouts of the Hamas crap.

The sooner Hamas are erased, the sooner the conflict will cease.

[McTavish]

Is Israel preparing to flood the Hamas tunnels with seawater?  That would flush the buggers out 

[EdwardV]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:08 PM, KRLMRX said:

at least from the point of view of international law, which many people like to use as their own dog and sometimes walk it, the rest of the time it sadly lies on the rug near the door.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory

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That's not saying what you claim. Nowhere in that quote does it prove under international law is Gaza occupied by Israel. The fact it uses the word "consider" alone proves that out. From your link: 

In a legal analysis Hanne Cuyckens agrees with the Israeli position that Gaza is no longer occupied - "Gaza is not technically occupied, given that there is no longer any effective control in the sense of Article 42 of the Hague Regulations. ... Even though the majority argues that the Gaza Strip is still occupied, the effective control test at the core of the law of occupation is no longer met and hence Gaza is no longer occupied." 

That's not to say Israel doesn't have culpability as to the conditions the people live under in Gaza. However, that doesn't mean Gaza is "occupied". 

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:35 PM, KRLMRX said:

The UN, most states of the world and Palestine itself consider both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to be part of the State of Palestine.

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Besides the fact the UN doesn't have that power in and of itself, only the membership does (that's the way membership organizations work). From your link:

 is a state whose legal status is the subject of controversy

In other news:

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said the actions and policies of Islamist group Hamas do not represent Palestinian people, according to official news agency WAFA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/president-abbas-says-hamas-actions-do-not-represent-palestinians/ar-AA1ifMRU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=dfe33d5125f945ff88195317869004cc&ei=57

Says a lot. 

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 10/13/2023 at 8:40 AM, Henry said:

Thanks for your reply.

I bow to your hands on experience of the situation. Full disclosure, my great grand parents were Jewish immigrants into the UK from Poland / Russia. At the time it was decided they were no longer welcome in their homeland so joined others to set up a new life. So I’ve got a bit of skin in the game so to speak. I was Christened but grandad was a practicing Jew who actually died in Israel on holiday.

When in the Gaza strip my friend stayed in the Banksy hotel and he showed photos of the nearby wall to Israel which had border lookout towers built into it. The graffiti was meaningful. He also showed photos of the bottles of urine. Is this not factually correct?

In terms of who did what to whom first you would have to say the creation of Israel against the wishes of the Arab people was the founding crime and resentment must have started from there. There has never been any love lost between both sides. 

My reason for commenting was to try and understand the position and help others do the same so they can avoid hurling insults along partisan lines. Our information will always be biassed depending where we are. I would hope a forum like this could be neutral ground.

Look after yourself and may the world treat you well.

Henry

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Hey Henry -- I appreciate your attitude and sorry this stuff gets a bit heated :)  I'll only respond on the guard tower stuff -- that almost certainly sounds like the West Bank to me.  That's where the border wall is, complete with guard towers, graffiti, contact with built-up areas, etc.  I'm 99% certain those pictures he showed you are from there.  While supporting Israel in general, and it's right to build a border wall, I strongly disagree with where they built it -- it was 100% a way to expand by force the land taken from Arab West Bank residents.

EDIT -- I googled "Banksy Hotel" and yes, sure enough, it is the West Bank, not Gaza.  

Have a good day.

Edited October 16, 2023 by ChicagoExpat
additional info

[Manu]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:28 PM, KRLMRX said:

Taking into account the strange ignorance of undoubtedly one of the best Israeli intelligence services in the world about the preparation of such a large-scale attack, as well as the mass protests against Netanyahu preceding this attack, very similar to conspiracy theories, but quite fair questions arise for the Israeli leadership. Now almost all Israelis, as one, rallied against the threat.

Fighting Hamas puts Israeli protests on ice, but the political divide remains

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/9/fighting-hamas-puts-israeli-protests-on-ice-but-political-divide-remains

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Well there is no need for conspiracy theory here. First, it is the end of Netanyahu political career. There is plenty of reports now saying that he ignored warnings from his own services but also Egytpian secret services. Time will tell but did he choose to ignore them cause he would have never imagined the scale of the atrocity? Most likely. The other thing, Netanyahu's arrogance thought that they controlled Gaza and Hamas movements. It makes me"laugh" when I see comments here saying that Hamas controls Gaza. We saw clearly that in a blink of the eye how Israel cut off electricity and water supplies. What does that even mean "to control a country"  if you do not even control basic ressources? Hamas controlled who is entitled to have lights amongst the people of Gaza, but it is Israel who is in control of the Switch, on and off as they wish. And Israel controls the doors too, who comes in and out of Gaza, what comes in and out of Gaza. In Netanyahu's arrogance, he never thought that Hamas could eventually produce their own key to enter Israel to commit last week's atrocity, that they had the capacity, too busy him and his extremist coalition to displace IDF from the south to the West Bank to protect settlers already there, and more new settlers arriving there every day in the fastest process of further colonisation (a plan all along), these settlers who are attacking Palestinians on a regular basis, settlers who are the people voting for him. It does not matter how secure a prison is, there are always some who manage to escape, made it just easier if the prison guards are somewhere else.

[HolyCowCm]

  On 10/16/2023 at 12:59 AM, McTavish said:

Is Israel preparing to flood the Hamas tunnels with seawater?  That would flush the buggers out 

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I think raw sewage might be more appropriate, but on the down side they may feel more comfortable immersed in it and become harder to flush out. 

[Manu]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:48 PM, oldschooler said:

Having done some further research I would modify my “ clownish” post.Refer to my response to KRLMRX.

“ Palestine” did indeed exist. Under control of Turks then UK but never was any Arab state, although had majority Arab population. These Arabs were indeed civilized & prosperous under the Ottomans and British. Newsreels show them all wearing modern western clothing in public.
 

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Under control, Arabs, Palestinians, etc etc... What has your comment to do with anything? There were human beings living for 100s years there and then some others arrived and displace them in horrible / inhuman ways. So you are saying that because Palestine was under control of this and that before, it is then ok to create a new state who then will continue to control them but in a much more oppresive way, taking over 100s of their villages, displace 100 000s of them, killing many innocent people in the process, pushing them all in a confetti territory, all this still happening until today, the colonisation with only one aim which is the annexation of Palestine, with an accelaration of the process very well orchestrated by Netanyahu and his coalition today, the Religious Zionist Party (the name says it all, very "modern Israel" like you said)? So you think that's ok cause, well, there was never a independant Palestine state? So you deni the Palestinians to have an independant state cause they never managed to have one before cause they were always under control? Do you see Palestinians are real human beings or is it just a word you read once in a while on newspapers?

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Nothing like their wretched black- shrouded descendants in Gaza & West Bank resulting from Arabs foolish rejection of the offered UN Arab Palestine State in 1947 and genocidal Arab  attempts to crush Israel who did accept the UN state offer in 1947 then retained Arab lands by righteous conquest.

Arabs gambled all & lost all in Palestine. Those Arabs are not wanted by anyone. They tried to take over Lebanon & Jordan when shown compassion by their Arab brothers…. they blew that too.

I stand with Free Modern Israel.

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"those arabs"? They are Palestinians and just because they have been denied an independant state until today does not make them less Palestinians.

"Those Arabs are not wanted by anyone". If you were slightly less blinded or bainwashed by I do not know who or what, you would know that PALESTINIANS will never leave Palestine, "being taken" by a third country is not even a remote possiblity so I am not even sure why you mention that. It does not nor will never exist, it has never existed, only in you mind.

"Tough. That’s Life. 50% Gazans  are below age 15 ! Hamas Objective Clearly to manipulate their captive population to breed future hamas soldiers or incubators for same." You means the ones that are still alive physically, and the vast amount of others that are psychologically already completely dead? Tought indeed. Who cares about these kids, that they were already traumatised by x numbers of bombs and harsh living conditions before last week attack does not really matter neither, "tough". You are a very good subject of the West, joining the rest of it that choose to close their eyes and hearts to what's happening to the kids "on the other side". It is very clear. I don't understand it...

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I stand with Free Modern Israel.

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I stand with Free Modern Israel alongside Free Modern Palestine side by side in peace.

I wonder if you visit the vibrant cities of Tel Aviv and Ramallah, and explain your point of view to the youth of today in both cities, without forgeting to cite people and sources of what you based your point of view, what kind of response you will get?

https://www.welcometopalestine.com/destinations/ramallah-al-bireh/ramallah-city/

[ChicagoExpat]

As a way to inform the typically brilliant and high-minded discussion we enjoy here at the Thaiger, without further editorial comment I provide Hamas' charter, as a means of enriching further debate on the subject of Gaza.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

[Manu]

  On 10/16/2023 at 4:23 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

As a way to inform the typically brilliant and high-minded discussion we enjoy here at the Thaiger, without further editorial comment I provide Hamas' charter, as a means of enriching further debate on the subject of Gaza.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

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Not sure how this will enhance anything, Hamas means Islamic Resistance Movement so it is pertty clear, I did not read anybody deniing this.

Now explain why so many voices in Israel are saying this "Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad." (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Why Netanyahu held negotiations with a jihadist terror group? Isn't he also slightly responsible of the overtaken power by Hamas in Gaza to suit his agenda? And what was/is his agenda? (yes, I am afraid it is impossible to talk about Gaza without linking to what is happening in the West Bank, if these 2 now different entities had not been divided to suit some's agenda we would not have to do so, but it was of course the objective).

Finally, if it is to "enhance" the debate, why not being objective and provide the charte of the Religious Zionism Party? That is if you want to be fair, objective.

So on one side the Islamic Resistance movement in power in Gaza, on the other the Religious Zionism Party in power (well not all the power, but enough to follow its agenda thanks to Netanyahu). Extremism, extremism... extremism attracts extremism, but it is always ordinary innocent people suffering on both sides because of them. Does anyone think that ordinary people in Gaza, West Bank and Israel want nothing else TODAY than the end of this endless madness, peace?

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 10/16/2023 at 5:26 AM, Manu said:

Not sure how this will enhance anything, Hamas means Islamic Resistance Movement so it is pertty clear, I did not read anybody deniing this.

Now explain why so many voices in Israel are saying this "Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad." (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Why Netanyahu held negotiations with a jihadist terror group? Isn't he also slightly responsible of the overtaken power by Hamas in Gaza to suit his agenda? And what was/is his agenda? (yes, I am afraid it is impossible to talk about Gaza without linking to what is happening in the West Bank, if these 2 now different entities had not been divided to suit some's agenda we would not have to do so, but it was of course the objective).

Finally, if it is to "enhance" the debate, why not being objective and provide the charte of the Religious Zionism Party? That is if you want to be fair, objective.

So on one side the Islamic Resistance movement in power in Gaza, on the other the Religious Zionism Party in power (well not all the power, but enough to follow its agenda thanks to Netanyahu). Extremism, extremism... extremism attracts extremism, but it is always ordinary innocent people suffering on both sides because of them. Does anyone think that ordinary people in Gaza, West Bank and Israel want nothing else TODAY than the end of this endless madness, peace?

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Interesting response.  1) My providing Hamas' charter isn't unfair in some way, and you don't need to put "enhance" in scare quotes.  It's not a question of if Hamas is an "Islamic Resistance Movement", it's a question of if it can be a partner for peace or if it is unwaveringly dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the death of every Jew.  You read it I'm sure... what do you think?  2)  While talking about the Religious Zionist Party is also certainly relevant, it's far less relevant, and it's a false equivalency.  For nearly 40 years Hamas has ruled Gaza alone, executing rivals and anyone suspected of "collaboration" and preventing free elections.  The RZP is a minority member of a coalition government, has existed independently for 2 years, and got only 10% of the vote in an actually democratic election.  It holds 7 out of 120 seats in the Knesset.

A completely false equivalency.

You're right, seeing their charter would be helpful; why didn't you provide it as the one advocating for it?

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 10/16/2023 at 2:39 AM, Manu said:

Well there is no need for conspiracy theory here. First, it is the end of Netanyahu political career.

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I'm not so sure.  There MAY be a price to be paid for not being prepared (especially if the Egypt stuff turns out to be true, and was communicated credibly and via the appropriate channels), but as with everything Palestinians do, the slaughter of civilians seems to have backfired, putting Netanyahu at the head of a coalition government with subordinate members who previously tried to take him down.

People will forgive a lot if their very existence is at stake.  (Also, alas, applying to Hamas; while they do not rule with the approval of the people, they do get more recruits willing to slit throats after Israel defends itself.)

Well done, Hamas!  Great work, Palestinians!

[Vigo]

  On 10/15/2023 at 9:41 PM, TheDirtyDurian said:

Ah yes ..

The beheaded babies..

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/cnn-reporter-apologizes-for-defending-israeli-claims-that-hamas-beheaded-babies-/3019286

Time to step back ..

https://www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16974058396033&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeera.com%2Fopinions%2F2023%2F10%2F13%2Fwatching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Still waiting for the Kingdom of Saul map covering much of modern day KSA btw...

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Question: Did you look at the photos in the  article link I provided. Yes or No?

If yes, did you see the photo of the perforated infant? the  stab wound in the child's neck had the effect of decapitation. 

[Vigo]

  On 10/15/2023 at 10:30 PM, TheDirtyDurian said:

"The beheaded babies tale originated with a report on Israel’s i24News site by reporter Nicole Zedeck, from her interview with Israeli reserve soldier David Ben Zion. Max Blumenthal and Alexander Rubinstein reported on October 11 that Ben Zion is a notorious radical leader in Israel’s West Bank settler movement. Among other things, he called on rampaging armed settlers earlier this year to wipe out the Palestinian village of Harawa, which settlers attacked and burned several times.

Media around the world quickly picked up the i24News report, and the Israeli Prime Minister’s spokesman said that babies and toddlers “with their heads decapitated” had been found at the site. CNN, among others, reported beheadings and “ISIS-style executions”. When journalists asked a spokesman for the Israeli military about the story, the reply was, “We cannot confirm but you can assume it happened.”

Within days, though, the Israeli foreign ministry and armed forces and some correspondents said there was no evidence for the beheadings, and the White House said that Biden was quoting press reports he’d read. It seemed clear by October 12 that no evidence existed to confirm the baby beheadings story. It was fake news, planted by an ideological warrior to stoke tensions in the heat of battle.

 

But the damage was done, and wildfire-like social media spreading of fake news had influenced millions of people around the world – mostly by intensifying existing ideological or cultural fault lines and confrontations."

If anyone has better sources, please share ..

First casualty of war is always the truth....

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Nice story but your story origins are not supported by recorded statements;

Reserve Col. Golan Vach, head of the National Rescue Unit in the army’s Home Front Command, claimed Thursday that he himself “found a baby with its head cut off” among the more than 100 people killed in Kibbutz Beeri, next to the Gaza Strip, and that members of his team found more decapitated children. “I don’t think a baby with its head cut off is an accident, a rocket doesn’t do that,” Vach said.

Also a member of the ZAKA Disaster Victim Identification Teams, an Israeli community emergency response unit in charge of recovering bodies, told EFE on Wednesday that he “doesn’t have numbers, but there are many cases” of dead children in places like Kibbutz Beeri, the Israeli community where the largest massacre of civilians has occurred in recent days. “I myself took the bodies of babies of one month, two months, of burned children, of children who were still burning when I took them by the hands.” He went on to say that he knew of cases of “people who were tortured, raped and burned alive.

You do not agree with the above. Ok. You don't have to. However, now you come with an inaccurate dismissal of their statements.   Are you also  claiming  that the US secretary of state told a news conference in Tel Aviv that Israelis had shown him graphic images of last Saturday’s Hamas attack in southern Israel, including a baby shot dead, soldiers beheaded and teenagers burned alive as they fled was lying?

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 10/16/2023 at 7:03 AM, Vigo said:

Question: Did you look at the photos in the  article link I provided. Yes or No?

If yes, did you see the photo of the perforated infant? the  stab wound in the child's neck had the effect of decapitation. 

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Could you provide the link again please. I looked in a post of yours and only saw a picture of a ransacked room. 

There was a quote from an Israeli FR though.

“I saw murdered babies. I saw murdered children. I saw mothers and children murdered together,” Yossi Landau, a commander of Israeli emergency response organization ZAKA, told NBC News.

if ever anyone would mention beheadings, surely he would have done. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 10/16/2023 at 7:07 AM, Vigo said:

Nice story but your story origins are not supported by recorded statements;

Reserve Col. Golan Vach, head of the National Rescue Unit in the army’s Home Front Command, claimed Thursday that he himself “found a baby with its head cut off” among the more than 100 people killed in Kibbutz Beeri, next to the Gaza Strip, and that members of his team found more decapitated children. “I don’t think a baby with its head cut off is an accident, a rocket doesn’t do that,” Vach said.

Also a member of the ZAKA Disaster Victim Identification Teams, an Israeli community emergency response unit in charge of recovering bodies, told EFE on Wednesday that he “doesn’t have numbers, but there are many cases” of dead children in places like Kibbutz Beeri, the Israeli community where the largest massacre of civilians has occurred in recent days. “I myself took the bodies of babies of one month, two months, of burned children, of children who were still burning when I took them by the hands.” He went on to say that he knew of cases of “people who were tortured, raped and burned alive.

You do not agree with the above. Ok. You don't have to. However, now you come with an inaccurate dismissal of their statements.   Are you also  claiming  that the US secretary of state told a news conference in Tel Aviv that Israelis had shown him graphic images of last Saturday’s Hamas attack in southern Israel, including a baby shot dead, soldiers beheaded and teenagers burned alive as they fled was lying?

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Please provide a link re the Golan Vach. 

https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119865?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16974407219852&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fwhite-house%2Fbiden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865

Biden backtracking on beheadings.

White House clarifies Biden's claim he saw photos of terrorists beheading children in Israel-Hamas war

After the comments, the White House clarified that Biden had read news reports.

[cowslip]

So basically Hamas has launched a totally inhumane attack .... now Isreal wants to do the same?

[Vigo]

  On 10/16/2023 at 5:26 AM, Manu said:

Not sure how this will enhance anything, Hamas means Islamic Resistance Movement so it is pertty clear, I did not read anybody deniing this.

Now explain why so many voices in Israel are saying this "Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad." (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Why Netanyahu held negotiations with a jihadist terror group? Isn't he also slightly responsible of the overtaken power by Hamas in Gaza to suit his agenda? And what was/is his agenda? (yes, I am afraid it is impossible to talk about Gaza without linking to what is happening in the West Bank, if these 2 now different entities had not been divided to suit some's agenda we would not have to do so, but it was of course the objective).

Finally, if it is to "enhance" the debate, why not being objective and provide the charte of the Religious Zionism Party? That is if you want to be fair, objective.

So on one side the Islamic Resistance movement in power in Gaza, on the other the Religious Zionism Party in power (well not all the power, but enough to follow its agenda thanks to Netanyahu). Extremism, extremism... extremism attracts extremism, but it is always ordinary innocent people suffering on both sides because of them. Does anyone think that ordinary people in Gaza, West Bank and Israel want nothing else TODAY than the end of this endless madness, peace?

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Hamas stated goal is the destruction of  Israel and the imposition of Sharia law over the entire Arab region. This is set out in the Hamas charter and its most recent updated The Covenant of the  Islamic Resistance Movement  18 August 1988  https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp#:~:text=Article Thirteen%3A&text=Abusing any part of Palestine,over their homeland they fight.   

In particular, the call to destroy Israel; Preamble -  "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." 

Article 11 does not allow for the the existence of Israel; the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day.

Only Islam  faith is allowed in palestine. No judaism, no christianity, No Hindu or Buddhist faith is allowed as per Article 13.  "Palestine is an Islamic land..." There is an absolute rejection of any peace initiative. only holy war - jihad is allowed.

On and on the Hamas carter goes calling for the death of all jews and the imposition of Sharia for the entire Caliphate. Lovely people. You ignore this and instead offer other political group charters without stating exactly where they call for the death and destruction of muslims.

[TheDirtyDurian]

Israel will use claim of 'baby beheadings' to legitimize war crimes: Israeli journalist

Israeli army spokesperson tells Anadolu that they have no information confirming allegations that Palestinian groups 'beheaded babies'

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-will-use-claim-of-baby-beheadings-to-legitimize-war-crimes-israeli-journalist/3020117

POLITICS, WORLD, MIDDLE EAST
 

Israel will use claim of 'baby beheadings' to legitimize war crimes: Israeli journalist

Israeli army spokesperson tells Anadolu that they have no information confirming allegations that Palestinian groups 'beheaded babies'

Turgut Alp Boyraz  |14.10.2023 - Update : 14.10.2023

 

https://cdnuploads.aa.com.tr/uploads/Contents/2023/10/14/thumbs_b_c_4ab987b01c9a2d48db171560d1c9ada2.jpg?v=203141
 

 

SDEROT, Israel

Israeli journalist Oren Ziv has said that false claims of Hamas group "beheading babies" will be used by the Israeli military to "legitimize" war crimes committed in Gaza.

Last Saturday, the Israeli army organized a press tour to southern Israeli kibbutz, Kfar Aza, one of the locations where Palestinian groups had attacked.

During the tour, one of the journalists spoke with some Israeli soldiers, citing them as sources, and reported that the soldiers said, "Hamas beheaded babies here."

However, officials from the Israeli army, reached by an Anadolu correspondent, said that they had no information to confirm such an allegation.

After the denial, some journalists who had shared the claim found themselves in a position where they had to apologize.

Ziv, who participated in the press tour in Kfar Aza, said that many people had contacted him with questions about the allegations.

In a statement on his social media account, Ziv said: "During the press tour, we saw no evidence of baby beheadings, and the Israeli army spokesperson or commanders did not mention such a thing to us."

However, Ziv also mentioned that this false allegation would be used by Israel, stating: "It is unfortunate that Israel will now use these false claims to escalate attacks (on Gaza) and legitimize the war crimes it will commit there."

[Vigo]

  On 10/16/2023 at 7:14 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

Could you provide the link again please. I looked in a post of yours and only saw a picture of a ransacked room. 

There was a quote from an Israeli FR though.

“I saw murdered babies. I saw murdered children. I saw mothers and children murdered together,” Yossi Landau, a commander of Israeli emergency response organization ZAKA, told NBC News.

if ever anyone would mention beheadings, surely he would have done. 

Expand  

There were multiple images. look at it again. I conclude that you are now trolling me with your statement that because one eye witness statement did not specifically emention decapitated babies that it did not occur. Did you not read this part, Reserve Col. Golan Vach, head of the National Rescue Unit in the army’s Home Front Command, claimed Thursday that he himself “found a baby with its head cut off” among the more than 100 people killed in Kibbutz Beeri, next to the Gaza Strip, and that members of his team found more decapitated children. “I don’t think a baby with its head cut off is an accident, a rocket doesn’t do that,” Vach said.

There isa good reason to now minimize the  exten to the Hamas horrors and that is to calm the Israeli public. Inflamed passions could result in retaliation and further loss of life. Once the war  ends there will be an inquiry and all manner of photographs and documentation will be presented. You can have your jollies then in arguing over the BBQing of babies occurred while they were  alive or dead, and whether the blood stains on walls indicate children had their heads bashed against them or were mere splatters from shooting and stabbing. You can then also delight yourself with the many photos of dead children and argue over their cause of death.