News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[EdwardV]

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Again you are refusing to entertain the question of WHY do they exist. And you avoided any discussion of non combatants. Do you have an agenda? I don’t. I am just trying to understand. 

I’m not refusing to entertain why they exist. Just at this point it no longer matters. They started a war, and the war will now take a life of its own. 

Non-combatants isn’t that a euphemism for collateral damage? Joking aside what do you want to talk about with them? 

 

[Manu]

 

[Grumpish]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

it wasn’t for British colonial foreign policy Israel wouldn’t have a pot to piss in, let alone a place to store it. 

Actually, it was pressure from the US that was the main driver, they were concerned about the growing influence of the Soviet Union in the region - like the partition of India, it is commonly blamed on the British when in fact it was largely forced on them.

[Khunmark]

2 hours ago, Manu said:

Thanks for that Manu. Pretty much vindicates my position on the issue. What an impressive individual, compelling viewing.

[23RD]

Some useful idiots in London yesterday it's not often I praise the French but they did have the moral courage and common sense to ban these rallies in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation. 

[TedG]

9 hours ago, Fanta said:

No. Do you condemn Israel for illegally occupying Palestinian land? 

You won't condemn Putin or Hamas? 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, TedG said:

You won't condemn Putin or Hamas? 

Putin no, Hamas yes. Now go find a YouTube video so you know what your opinion is about Israel occupying Palestinian land. 

[TedG]

What are the differences between Putin and Hamas?

[TedG]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Putin no, Hamas yes. Now go find a YouTube video so you know what your opinion is about Israel occupying Palestinian land. 

What are the differences between Putin and Hamas?

[TedG]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

 Now go find a YouTube video so you know what your opinion is about Israel occupying Palestinian land. 

Show me on the doll where YouTube videos hurt you. 

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, TedG said:

What are the differences between Putin and Hamas?

This is not the Russia/Ukraine topic. 

[oldschooler]

“ Palestine” doesn’t exist before the British created the term in 1940’s and it became used again by Arabs and western sympathisers after 1967 war when genocidal aggressor defeated Arabs driven out and land acquired by Israel by simple righteous conquest.

” Palestinians” term thus started in 1968 by deluded left wingers in West and Adopted by Arabs.

So No Palestine No Palestinians No Palestinian Land .

Israel had that land for a thousand years before driven out by Romans.

Arabs conquered area 700 ad . Israel given part by UN 1947 and reconquered the rest in1967.

Arabs called it Greater Syria. Israelis called in Judea- Samaria last three thousand years.

[Manu]

3 hours ago, TedG said:

53 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

“ Palestine” doesn’t exist before the British created the term in 1940’s and it became used again by Arabs and western sympathisers after 1967 war when genocidal aggressor defeated Arabs driven out and land acquired by Israel by simple righteous conquest.

” Palestinians” term thus started in 1968 by deluded left wingers in West and Adopted by Arabs.

So No Palestine No Palestinians No Palestinian Land .

Israel had that land for a thousand years before driven out by Romans.

Arabs conquered area 700 ad . Israel given part by UN 1947 and reconquered the rest in1967.

Arabs called it Greater Syria. Israelis called in Judea- Samaria last three thousand years.

You are a clown, I am so happy to read comments with a red nose ilike this in this thread, it makes you feel like there is some hope with people with good hearts and thinking. You are just pure hate, sweating out of your words, the red nose being just for us to have a laugh. 

[KRLMRX]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:37 PM, Grumpish said:

Neither are the parts of Ukraine invaded and occupied by Russia - yet you consistently support that.

As usual, you lied.

I do not support any occupation in the interests of the ruling class. But Israel’s occupation of Palestine, like Russia’s occupation of Ukraine, can and should be explained.

Causes and consequences.

And since you refer to international law, then according to it Israel is an occupier. But however, you support the occupier here, but you don’t support there.

Hypocrisy is the main attribute of modern political life.

[KRLMRX]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:41 PM, TedG said:

How does that work for Russia and Ukraine? 

just like everywhere else.

war is just an extreme form of competition in a free market. and nothing more. franchise owners don’t care what religion you are, what color you are, or what language you speak.

money is all they care about.

[KRLMRX]

21 hours ago, Pinga said:

What the hell are you talking about? The attack on civilian Israelis (and Thais, and other nationalities) happened on Israeli territory. As far as Gaza is concerned Israel pulled it's troops out of there 2 decades ago - which you'd know if you had any understanding of the situation.

Hamas had decades and an insane amount of foreign aid to be able to build infrastructure and turn Gaza into a livable area - the reason Israel supplies most of Gaza's electricity, water, and communication isn't that it's prevented them from establishing infrastructure or enforced some sort of "ghetto" on them - the reason is that Hamas took that money and instead of investing it in infrastructure gave it to terrorists, bought massive amounts of weapons, dug tunnels, bought rockets and rocket launchers, and basically diverted everything it could towards killing Israelis instead of making it's own people thrive.

You can't make peace with people who'd rather kill you than see their own thrive. Now it's time to get rid of Hamas for good - nothing less will do.

you assume that this Hamas attack was something new, unprovoked and a stand-alone act. but that's not true. And in a later post I clarified that the problem is deeper.

And one of the components of this problem is, of course, the UN-recognized Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. And until the problem of peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians is resolved, such atrocities on both sides will continue.

You propose to solve this problem by exterminating or exile the Palestinians. This is of course possible, but extremely unlikely. I hope you and the Israeli leadership understand this. Otherwise we are all in big trouble. Again

[Grumpish]

23 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

As usual, you lied.

I do not support any occupation in the interests of the ruling class. But Israel’s occupation of Palestine, like Russia’s occupation of Ukraine, can and should be explained.

Causes and consequences.

And since you refer to international law, then according to it Israel is an occupier. But however, you support the occupier here, but you don’t support there.

Hypocrisy is the main attribute of modern political life.

As usual,  you resort to shouting "liar, liar" and talking nonsense when faced with facts you don't like. And where did I go quoting international law? Admit it,  you are just pissed off because your hero Stalin couldn't prevent the creation of the state of Israel.

[KRLMRX]

15 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Wouldn’t that be an example of hypocrisy?

While we are at it, and being the topic is Gaza. Who technically owns Gaza? I mean today, not at some historical level. Also how does Israel occupy something where they don’t station troops and don’t control the activities of? After all Hamas controls Gaza, doesn’t that in and of itself prove Israel isn’t occupying it? Just being curious, not trying to make point. Thanks 

no, it doesn't prove it.

at least from the point of view of international law, which many people like to use as their own dog and sometimes walk it, the rest of the time it sadly lies on the rug near the door.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005. The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories

[KRLMRX]

14 hours ago, Vigo said:

The war with  Hamas does not involved Israel occupying Hamas lands. On the contrary, Hamas has one stated goal to wipe Israel out and to kill all Israelis. Or do you deny this too?

at least their official goals differ from your interpretation.

Hamas styles itself as a Palestinian Islamic national liberation and resistance movement whose stated goal is the liberation of Palestine and confronting the “Zionist project”. Nevertheless, since its creation in 1987 during the First Intifada, the group's leaders have come to accept a two-state solution and political participation as more attainable goals

https://ecfr.eu/special/mena-armed-groups/hamas-palestine /#:~:text=Hamas%20styles%20itself%20as%20a,participation%20as%20more%20attainable%20goals

[KRLMRX]

14 hours ago, Manu said:

I have just read some awful posts here. I suspect there is no Israeli nor Palestinian on this forum (?), still, most of the views here seem to come from the most extremists from both sides. It is like following a discussion between the harshest far right religious extremists Isrealis and Hamas (what does Hamas mean by the way? Islamic Resistance Movement - not Palestine Resistance Movement). I do not see neither any quote from people on the ground of whom you based your views from, well, if you were posting any quotes from people in the middle of it on whom you based your views, it seems it would be from the ones I am describing above. It seems it is much easier for most in front of computers to call for war rather than peace, which is what the vast majority of people over there want on both sides (well now not so much, and why is that?), instead most views here are backing up the extremists on both sides.

Now extremists have a thing in common, it is that they are always ready to go all the way in order to follow their ideology. There was a very interesting article last week from Tal Shneider, an Israeli political journalist, who knows a little more on the subject than all of us here and, well, she lives there.

"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Yes, not that simple, right? But please, read the full article.

Also for those who keep coming up with the Palestinian Authority refusing peace offers, etc... well again, not that simple. In 2008 for example... a missed opportunity that seems now it will never happen again from 2 leaders who really wanted peace: what a shame. So close... But to say Abbas refused and that's it is at the very best simplistic. But do not take my word for it, my word nor anyone's here means nothing. This very well sourced article published back in 2013 explains very clearly the reality, yes as usual the extremists doing everything in their power to destroy this peace process.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/details-of-olmerts-peace-offer-to-palestinians-exposed-314261

We all are regular people here but most here are writing stuff as if they were extremists from one side or the other. But what about what regular people in Israel and Palestine say about it? Do they all have your extremist views? Don't they just want peace? And most of all: what is the problem? Well in Palestine, it is very simple what the problem is, they are the ones being colonised and treated like s****. In Israel, they know what the problem is and what should be done to achieve peace. Regular people, people in the middle of it, some who contructed that eventually realising it like...

this ex-Israeli general...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000

or this former head of Mossad

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-09-06/ty-article/there-is-an-apartheid-state-here-ex-mossad-chief-on-israels-west-bank-occupation/0000018a-6abe-dfd9-ad9f-efbe5c720000

Yeah, an "apartheir system" this former head of Mossad describes the situation in the West Bank. Who are we here to say otherwise and contredict someone who has been deep in that system and surely knows better? Yes words like these from this guy and many others of that sort never hit outside news outlets of the middle East, we never hear this message in the West, it is totally erased of the debate, it does not exist. And the result of this is? Well, for example, most posts here are the result of this, extremist views.

Taking into account the strange ignorance of undoubtedly one of the best Israeli intelligence services in the world about the preparation of such a large-scale attack, as well as the mass protests against Netanyahu preceding this attack, very similar to conspiracy theories, but quite fair questions arise for the Israeli leadership. Now almost all Israelis, as one, rallied against the threat.

Fighting Hamas puts Israeli protests on ice, but the political divide remains

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/9/fighting-hamas-puts-israeli-protests-on-ice-but-political-divide-remains

[oldschooler]

18 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

you assume that this Hamas attack was something new, unprovoked and a stand-alone act. but that's not true. And in a later post I clarified that the problem is deeper.

And one of the components of this problem is, of course, the UN-recognized Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. And until the problem of peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians is resolved, such atrocities on both sides will continue.

You propose to solve this problem by exterminating or exile the Palestinians. This is of course possible, but extremely unlikely. I hope you and the Israeli leadership understand this. Otherwise we are all in big trouble. Again

No civilised human is ever “ provoked” into murder mutilation kidnap of babies children elderly.

Arabs, like Russians, are herd-like primitives and do not usually recognise any civilised behaviour of course.

Palestine held by Turks for 400 years. Arabs could not liberate themselves. UK defeated Turks 1918 and acquired Palestine under UN Mandate. Land occupied 90% by Arabs 10%by Jews. Arabs tried violently to stop Jewish Immigration. UN offered Arabs all the good land to form their own state alongside a Jewish state.

Arabs rejected that and tried to annihilate the Jews by launching series of wars which failed.

Jews then had by 1967 all of Palestine. By righteous conquest. Arabs kept rejecting Jewish offers own state.

Hamas Charter and Actions are simply an Israeli Genocide. Impossible to Negotiate. As with German Nazis. 

[KRLMRX]

14 hours ago, EdwardV said:

I thought Palestine wasn’t an actual country? Isn’t that the entire idea behind a two state solution, trying to make an independent Palestinian country? 

The question was specifically limited to Gaza since that’s the topic of the thread (see the red box below). That said I’m pretty sure the leaders of the West Bank and Gaza consider them separate entities. The question remains, is Israel actually “occupying” Gaza? That is the term thrown out so often, seems an appropriate question??? 

The UN, most states of the world and Palestine itself consider both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to be part of the State of Palestine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

[KRLMRX]

45 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

As usual,  you resort to shouting "liar, liar" and talking nonsense when faced with facts you don't like. And where did I go quoting international law? Admit it,  you are just pissed off because your hero Stalin couldn't prevent the creation of the state of Israel.

another lie, unfortunately. and I ask you to stop fighting Stalin. Look to the future.

Why Stalin Created Israel.

The absolute majority of Western politicians opposed the appearance on the world map of an independent Jewish state. Therefore, almost all researchers of this issue agree that it was Stalin and Soviet diplomacy who played a decisive role in the creation of Israel.

https://cultureoeuvre.com/10830188-why-stalin-created-israel

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Manu said:

 

Having done some further research I would modify my “ clownish” post.Refer to my response to KRLMRX.

“ Palestine” did indeed exist. Under control of Turks then UK but never was any Arab state, although had majority Arab population. These Arabs were indeed civilized & prosperous under the Ottomans and British. Newsreels show them all wearing modern western clothing in public.

Nothing like their wretched black- shrouded descendants in Gaza & West Bank resulting from Arabs foolish rejection of the offered UN Arab Palestine State in 1947 and genocidal Arab  attempts to crush Israel who did accept the UN state offer in 1947 then retained Arab lands by righteous conquest.

Arabs gambled all & lost all in Palestine. Those Arabs are not wanted by anyone. They tried to take over Lebanon & Jordan when shown compassion by their Arab brothers…. they blew that too.

Tough. That’s Life. 50% Gazans  are below age 15 ! Hamas Objective Clearly to manipulate their captive population to breed future hamas soldiers or incubators for same. I stand with Free Modern Israel.
 

[KRLMRX]

23 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

No civilised human is ever “ provoked” into murder mutilation kidnap of babies children elderly.

Arabs, like Russians, are herd-like primitives and do not usually recognise any civilised behaviour of course.

Palestine held by Turks for 400 years. Arabs could not liberate themselves. UK defeated Turks 1918 and acquired Palestine under UN Mandate. Land occupied 90% by Arabs 10%by Jews. Arabs tried violently to stop Jewish Immigration. UN offered Arabs all the good land to form their own state alongside a Jewish state.

Arabs rejected that and tried to annihilate the Jews by launching series of wars which failed.

Jews then had by 1967 all of Palestine. By righteous conquest. Arabs kept rejecting Jewish offers own state.

Hamas Charter and Actions are simply an Israeli Genocide. Impossible to Negotiate. As with German Nazis. 

Now the Palestinians "By righteous conquest" are winning back what they have lost.

the number of Palestinians killed by the Israelis, including the elderly and children, is many times higher.

Everything is in accordance with your bloodthirsty worldview.