News Forum - A British musician bangs drums of discontent after breaking leg in Thailand

[Faz]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

I can't find anywhere that categorically says his compulsory insurance on the vehicle wasn't valid.

There is no mention in the story, whether he hired, borrowed or bought a second hand run around.
What appears to be obvious is that, whichever, it probably wasn't taxed or had any compulsory Insure.

He had a full UK car licence, which only covered him to drive a 50CC moped/scooter/motorcycle.
Hence, his travel Insurance refused any claim.

Reading between the lines on admission to hospital, he tested positive for Covid, asymptomatic, requiring isolation but no treatment, so his travel Insurance wouldn't have covered that either.

If nothing else, he's learning some valuable lessons in life.

[cowslip]

4 minutes ago, Faz said:

it probably wasn't taxed or had any compulsory Insure.

 

why do you think that? If the m/c was taxed it would've compulsory insurance - you can't do one without the other.

Whether it was hired borrowed or whatever, it doesn't affect the compulsory insurance if it was taxed.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by cowslip

[Guest1]

50 minutes ago, cowslip said:

why do you think that? If the m/c was taxed it would've compulsory insurance - you can't do one without the other.

Whether it was hired borrowed or whatever, it doesn't affect the compulsory insurance if it was taxed.

But no-one will tell the Brit, that there's a compulsory insurance on the bike. Rented out "uninsured", mostly.  Also the motorcycle insurance is paying peanuts for the driver. Let aside that the guy assumingly was not even asking, presenting his travel insurance and thought, he is covered. Compulsory would not even bring the bill under 600k, so that is not the problem here!

[Faz]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

why do you think that? If the m/c was taxed it would've compulsory insurance - you can't do one without the other.

Whether it was hired borrowed or whatever, it doesn't affect the compulsory insurance if it was taxed.

He tried to claim off his travel Insurance and failed, the next step would be to claim off the compulsory Insurance, but he never -why?

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

He tried to claim off his travel Insurance and failed, the next step would be to claim off the compulsory Insurance, but he never -why?

Well, I'd guess no-one ever told him - mind you it would only be a small amount - they may have paid it directly to the ambulance people.

[HolyCowCm]

Regardless or not of the compulsory insurance having small pay out or if he got it or not, if you look at the xray then you will see they took this guy to one of the most expensive costly hospitals in CM. It seems that emergency responders have a big habit of taking foreingers to these overpriced places that when compared to most all of the others (except one) in CM are triple plus the cost. Why? Maybe these responders get triple the pay out given to them?

All in all the kid is already covered through his Go Fund me page as has basically reached what the limit was asked for, so he is not out of anything and this story should be dropeed waiting for the next one to come along and cry OMG then have a Go Fund me set up to pay for his or her stupidity.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

Regardless or not of the compulsory insurance having small pay out or if he got it or not, if you look at the xray then you will see they took this guy to one of the most expensive costly hospitals in CM. It seems that emergency responders have a big habit of taking foreingers to these overpriced places that when compared to most all of the others (except one) in CM are triple plus the cost. Why? Maybe these responders get triple the pay out given to them?

All in all the kid is already covered through his Go Fund me page as has basically reached what the limit was asked for, so he is not out of anything and this story should be dropeed waiting for the next one to come along and cry OMG then have a Go Fund me set up to pay for his or her stupidity.

As I said earlier - I think it serves to highlight not just the need for visitors to have proper insurance but also the lack of decent emergency services in Thailand - so even if you are insured, it is no guarantee of prompt and appropriate first response or emergency hospital treatment.

 

The difference in treatment and attitude at these hopitals when they find you can/can't pay is also very discernible.

 

[HolyCowCm]

41 minutes ago, cowslip said:

As I said earlier - I think it serves to highlight not just the need for visitors to have proper insurance but also the lack of decent emergency services in Thailand - so even if you are insured, it is no guarantee of prompt and appropriate first response or emergency hospital treatment.

The difference in treatment and attitude at these hopitals when they find you can/can't pay is also very discernible.

Even with standard insurance from your home place doesn't guarantee you that they will immediately pay, so in this case one is stuck under watch at the hospital. travel insuraqnce one better make sure to read the fine print. I think most will have a credit card imprinted and then treatment is immediate and if so they collect to be reimbursed later by insurance. For me never had insurance, and the travel insurance I have bought isn't worth the paper it was printed as most of the things I would need it for would be void by them. Thank the Gods that I can always pay out of pocket and have never had something serious or too serious happen. And yes i have brwoken some bones here, but nothing that needed surgery or fancy rooms and attention. Luckily I always just manned up on the breaks and went home or did not even go at all..

[cowslip]

9 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

hank the Gods that I can always pay out of pocket and have never had something serious or too serious happen. And yes i have brwoken some bones here, but nothing that needed surgery or fancy rooms and attention.

Classic viewpoint that comes before a fall.

 

I've had insurance through work both private and national - and it has come through on occasions but there are limits. I've also had foreign insurance that paid whilst I was in the hospital.

I've also been caught between jobs without cover on a fairly serious incident - this cost over 32,000 per night and I wasn't in the most expensive hospital.

I now realise how easy it is to find oneself in a very sticky predicament with no fault of my own.

[oldschooler]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:43 PM, Faz said:

There is no 'International licence', only an International Driving permit (IDP)
Holders of a UK car licence can also ride up to a 50cc (moped) without 'L' plates.

Under the Geneva convention, licences in English are perfectly legal to drive in Thailand.
However, don't expect Thai police to be familiar with that, hence an IDP is favourable, which translates the information.

No material difference by definition between License and Permit.Only in Use.

Permits are minor licenses for untested activity like fishing or parking or small works or certifying Licenses by standard intl. document.

Licenses are after Test and for major life- affecting activity like Driving or Doctoring or Flying. 

[cowslip]

You

20 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

No material difference by definition between License and Permit.Only in Use.

Permits are minor licenses for untested activity like fishing or parking or small works or certifying Licenses by standard intl. document.

Licenses are after Test and for major life- affecting activity like Driving or Doctoring or Flying. 

 

You making an arbitrary and rather fallacious definition that is totally out of context on this tread. One definition is that permits are short term whereas a licence is for a long time - this would work in the context of the thread.

In most cases, licenses are permanent while permits are temporary.  For instance, in driving, a permit is valid for up to two years in most places while licenses are permanent, although they can also be annulled in case of misuse of the said license.  

 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, cowslip said:

You

You making an arbitrary and rather fallacious definition that is totally out of context on this tread. One definition is that permits are short term whereas a licence is for a long time - this would work in the context of the thread.

In most cases, licenses are permanent while permits are temporary.  For instance, in driving, a permit is valid for up to two years in most places while licenses are permanent, although they can also be annulled in case of misuse of the said license.  

Licensed certainly valid for far longer durations than permits but not permanent. Otherwise my practical application holds. Doctors and Pilots are licensed for say three years before recertification rather than “permitted”. So the major/ minor split clearly applies. 
context is that an IDP is a certificate of licensing not a license in itself. 

[Faraday]

A provocative comment has been removed.

Moderator

[Henry]

I fancy renting a helicopter later in the week whilst here in Krabi. The scenery is spectacular and it would be fun. I don’t have a pilot’s licence but I am a commercially endorsed motor boat skipper and have successfully flown a drone for a number of years.

I’m assuming my insurance company would pick up the tab in the unlikely event I have an accident……

 

In a nutshell our Scottish friend’s predicament.

 

If it all goes pear shaped I’ll start a go fund me page for the necessary THB 80m

[Bluesofa]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:14 AM, Faz said:

What system would that be?

If you're not insured, then you foot your own bill.

He definitely had to 'foot' the bill, as there was no way he could 'leg' it.

[Faz]

4 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

He definitely had to 'foot' the bill, as there was no way he could 'leg' it.

He could have 'hopped' it, though.

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

He could have 'hopped' it, though.

He skipped his bill by having other people free-be him on Fund my poor sorry arse.

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

He could have 'hopped' it, though.

I don't know his particlar circumstance, but it is quite common for hospitals to take hold of your passport  - then they can worry about payment at leisure.

[Bluesofa]

50 minutes ago, cowslip said:

I don't know his particlar circumstance, but it is quite common for hospitals to take hold of your passport  - then they can worry about payment at leisure.

Does anyone know what the legal position is when your passport is taken hostage?

[Faz]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

I don't know his particlar circumstance, but it is quite common for hospitals to take hold of your passport  - then they can worry about payment at leisure.

It's mandatory to show your passport at both public and private hospitals, and they can hold a copy.
It's illegal for them to hold your Passport, set against settling your bill.

A hospital cannot hold anyone against their will to leave, or they'd be liable to 'false imprisonment' charges.

You can make arrangements to settle a bill should you not have the full amount, and there is a procedure to follow should they think you're going to skip the Country on release.
A foreign government can only seize a passport if you are suspected of committing a crime on your travels, or on entry if they believe it to be fake.

[HolyCowCm]

5 hours ago, cowslip said:

I don't know his particlar circumstance, but it is quite common for hospitals to take hold of your passport  - then they can worry about payment at leisure.

I do know they make it very hard to leave it sneak out. When entering they want your id to photo copy and also a credit card. Don’t think they can take your passport but they immediately do want a copy of it for sure. 
 

I have stayed overnight with Bernie here before, my son when he broke his arm and also when my 2 kids when were born. They are 100% just not going to let you walk out, and you are watched. This has been at a few hospitals. You’re not a prisoner, but you are also not free to leave. 

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

there is a procedure to follow should they think you're going to skip the Country on release.

 

What is that procedure?

It is illegal to give you passport  to anyone as deposit etc as it is the property of your government.

 

however are you saying that hospitals have NEVER taken a passport?

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by cowslip

[Ivo_Shandor]

On 12/9/2022 at 1:00 PM, HolyCowCm said:

(...) Thailand plainly does not recognise any foreing driver license except if you are applying to get a Thai license showing you are licensed in your own country. (...)

With exceptions: since 1985 Thailand recognizes the driving licences issued by Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore, and viceversa, aside from temporary/provisional/learner's licenses.

[cowslip]

29 minutes ago, Ivo_Shandor said:

With exceptions: since 1985 Thailand recognizes the driving licences issued by Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore, and viceversa, aside from temporary/provisional/learner's licenses.

 

believe that all ASEAN countries cause their licenses in Thailnd

Thai D/L allows the holder to drive on any roads in Thailand and in other ASEAN states without an International Driving Permit.

Thailand ratified the Vienna convention in 2020 - this supersedes any previous treaties/conventions - e.g. Geneva.

Exactly what that means for licence holders of oCountries outside ASEAN, I'm not sure - it may mean that the UK licence is no longer accepted on its own and MUST be accompanied by an IDP

 

[Ivo_Shandor]

9 minutes ago, cowslip said:

believe that all ASEAN countries cause their licenses in Thailnd

Thai D/L allows the holder to drive on any roads in Thailand and in other ASEAN states without an International Driving Permit.

Thailand ratified the Vienna convention in 2020 - this supersedes any previous treaties/conventions - e.g. Geneva.

Exactly what that means for licence holders of oCountries outside ASEAN, I'm not sure - it may mean that the UK licence is no longer accepted on its own and MUST be accompanied by an IDP

Holders of countries outside Asean must hold an IDP, as the above mentioned countries are to date the only ones that have an agreement for reciprocal recognition of dometic licenses under the section 42 bis of the Vehicle Act 1979 (amendment 1987). The claim that the license must at least be in English is not substantiate by any Act so far, neither the 1979 one nor the subsequent amendments 1987 or 2014, as far as I can see from these documents. Unless there is another amendments I am not aware of, non ASEAN license+IDP is the norm.