News Forum - A British musician bangs drums of discontent after breaking leg in Thailand

[Thaiger]

A British musician is banging the drums of discontent after breaking his leg in Thailand leaving him with a bill of 680,000 baht (£16,000). Kieran Angus, a drummer with the Scottish rock band Broadsea, fell off his motorbike while on tour in Thailand breaking his leg as a consequence. The 27 year old from Aberdeen believed he was insured but his travel insurance company won’t cough up. There appears to be a contradiction in the musician’s insurance cover. The insurance company pointed out that he is covered to drive a 125cc engine but his driving license says it is only […]

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[Vigo]

The problem is with the drummer and his lack of reading comprehension. An insurance policy is a legal contract and it is only allowed by law to insure legal activities. The typical UK issued travel accident policy has  conditions for coverage like this;  "Insured must have a valid motorbike licence in the UK and in the local country for the size of bike (engine) you’re operating"   and the policy will declare the size of bike engine that will be covered. (In this case the  policy covered up to 125cc)

The  injured person was not licensed to drive anything more powerful than a low speed scooter or moped.  He wasn't legally allowed to drive the vehicle and his policy stated that he would not be insured to drive vehicles he was not legally allowed to operate. This is just about his wanting other people to pick up his medical expenses while he has fun playing the drums.

 

 

[Pinetree]

24 minutes ago, Vigo said:

The problem is with the drummer and his lack of reading comprehension.

His problem is a lack of intelligence.  He's a dumb ass to expect insurers to pay out, and I'm afraid that he is not alone here, when idiots like him, without a valid license to ride a motorbike, think that its okay to ignore the law because its Thailand.  No sympathy for him, or others of his ilk.  

[Guest1]

 The insurance company pointed out that he is covered to drive a 125cc engine but his driving license says it is only valid up to 50cc, meaning that his insurance has been deemed as invalid. 

Lets move on, nothing to see here!

 

[Poolie]

Shame, but an inevitable conclusion. Never rely on insurance 'cos they never pay out.

Not a bad band like:

Edited December 8, 2022 by Faz
uneccesary video removed

[Soidog]

People don’t seem to realise that if you breach the contract then you may as well never have bought the insurance. Would have been better to have said he fell and broke his leg and not mention the motorbike. Not something I would advocate though as this is breaking the law

[Pinetree]

3 hours ago, Poolie said:

Shame, but an inevitable conclusion. Never rely on insurance 'cos they never pay out.

Its not the fault of the insurers, its the fault of someone who is too dim to understand the law and the terms of his insurance. 

[Grumpish]

Insurance companies are very good at finding reasons to not pay out, sometimes fairly, sometimes not - but it is an important part of their bottom line, and in this case they more than a leg to stand on. He would have more luck suing the hirer, for letting him have a motorcycle that he did not have a licence for - then again,. maybe not.

[Soidog]

What level of medical costs is covered by the compulsory motorbike insurance that every MB in Thailand must have? If that’s invalidated as a result of small print which still identifies he didn’t have the right license, then there is a case to recover some costs from the hire company. Probably easier to walk back to Scotland on one leg than try to get money out of the hirer mind you. 

[Vigo]

8 hours ago, Poolie said:

Shame, but an inevitable conclusion. Never rely on insurance 'cos they never pay out.

Not a bad band like:

Rubbish. Insurers most certainly do pay put.It is called a loss ratio and is documented for public companies.

If you do not understand  how insurance works, then educate yourself. It is not an opinion when you make a statement like yours.

[Vigo]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

What level of medical costs is covered by the compulsory motorbike insurance that every MB in Thailand must have? If that’s invalidated as a result of small print which still identifies he didn’t have the right license, then there is a case to recover some costs from the hire company. Probably easier to walk back to Scotland on one leg than try to get money out of the hirer mind you. 

Your point about the hirer is solid. The hirer must  take some responsibility for failure to act responsibly. Hirer knows the insurance requirements but still sells to foolish ignorant customer. Until hirer  is penalized for exploiting the stupid and aiding law violation these sad stories will repeat.

[Soidog]

Does anyone know how this would have worked out had his broken leg occurred as a result of an accident in which he was riding as passenger? Assuming the rider was unhurt and not claiming, would he be able to claim off his insurance I wonder? I’m just thinking and planning ahead

[Guest1]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

People don’t seem to realise that if you breach the contract then you may as well never have bought the insurance. Would have been better to have said he fell and broke his leg and not mention the motorbike. Not something I would advocate though as this is breaking the law

He probably has tried, or the hospital, to negotiate  direct with the insurance. Which usually is a service, b/c then you don't need to pay upfront. Just then the details get out. Even if the bill later is not saying anything about the detailed reasons for the needed help.

I am certain, he didn't read the fine print, neither was he aware that his car license is only covering 50cc Motos. 

 

[Guest1]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Does anyone know how this would have worked out had his broken leg occurred as a result of an accident in which he was riding as passenger? Assuming the rider was unhurt and not claiming, would he be able to claim off his insurance I wonder? I’m just thinking and planning ahead

Actually, by legal terms, the pillion has a bigger cut of the compulsory.

Not sure, if I get the numbers right, but I think it was max 15k for the driver plus max 55k for the pillion.

But I never understood that the compulsory moto insurance is paying for the riders of the bike, but normally NOT for third parties. 

And they paying peanuts!

[TheDirtyDurian]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Does anyone know how this would have worked out had his broken leg occurred as a result of an accident in which he was riding as passenger? Assuming the rider was unhurt and not claiming, would he be able to claim off his insurance I wonder? I’m just thinking and planning ahead

Did that exact same thing years ago. Stupidly and after a few beers I came off a bike and fractured the bone at the top of my arm where it meets the shoulder. I was alone at the time. 

Got to the hospital, now with my wife, and they sort of cooked it all up between them to get the standard bike insurance to pay for everything, saying I was a passenger. The bill was about 15k I think with a night stay. 

Not too bad, but not as serious as this guy's leg either. 

[Soidog]

3 hours ago, Guest1 said:

Actually, by legal terms, the pillion has a bigger cut of the compulsory.

Not sure, if I get the numbers right, but I think it was max 15k for the driver plus max 55k for the pillion.

But I never understood that the compulsory moto insurance is paying for the riders of the bike, but normally NOT for third parties. 

And they paying peanuts!

Thanks. But I was wondering about his insurance. Would they have paid up had he broken his leg as a result of being a passenger in the motorbike accident rather than rider? 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Did that exact same thing years ago. Stupidly and after a few beers I came off a bike and fractured the bone at the top of my arm where it meets the shoulder. I was alone at the time. 

Got to the hospital, now with my wife, and they sort of cooked it all up between them to get the standard bike insurance to pay for everything, saying I was a passenger. The bill was about 15k I think with a night stay. 

Not too bad, but not as serious as this guy's leg either. 

Thanks. I normally leave any such negotiations to one of my Thai friends or friends Thai wife if they are around. Seems something is normally resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.

[yselmike]

7 hours ago, Soidog said:

Does anyone know how this would have worked out had his broken leg occurred as a result of an accident in which he was riding as passenger? Assuming the rider was unhurt and not claiming, would he be able to claim off his insurance I wonder? I’m just thinking and planning ahead

I get basic accident insurance,for medical costs and possible repatriation,I know that if I have an accident while riding any form of motorized transport I am not covered.The same for dangerous sports, skiing,diving,horse riding and so on.I have been to the hospital for a eye check,I will put the €95 bill in when I get back but I am not expecting them to cough up.These things are pretty basic stuff,if I die I don't want or expect my family to pay for my body to be sent back to the UK.

[Soidog]

6 minutes ago, yselmike said:

I get basic accident insurance,for medical costs and possible repatriation,I know that if I have an accident while riding any form of motorized transport I am not covered.The same for dangerous sports, skiing,diving,horse riding and so on.I have been to the hospital for a eye check,I will put the €95 bill in when I get back but I am not expecting them to cough up.These things are pretty basic stuff,if I die I don't want or expect my family to pay for my body to be sent back to the UK.

All sounds sensible to me. However, going back to my question, would his insurance have paid had he been a passenger in the motorcycle rather than the rider? 

[Fanta]

Did the guy even have a motorcycle license?  

“You passed your driving test before 1 February 2001. You can ride a moped (up to 50cc) without L plates. You do not need to take a CBT course or take the full moped test.”

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-cbt/car-driving-licence  

 

[Faz]

56 minutes ago, Soidog said:

All sounds sensible to me. However, going back to my question, would his insurance have paid had he been a passenger in the motorcycle rather than the rider? 

That would depend on the wording of his policy.
Many travel Insurance policies exclude driving accidents.
They would normally expect the driver's Insurance to cover passengers and third parties.
It then becomes a long-drawn-out 'blame' game and who should accept responsibility.

I had an experience in the UK many years ago, when selling a car.
An interested party requested a test drive, so I sat in as a passenger, however we were stopped at a police checkpoint where it came to light, the interested buyer didn't have a licence.

Now, you'd automatically expect someone requesting a test drive had a valid licence in the first place.
In court, I received penalty points and a fine as they deemed it was my responsibility to ask the buyer if he had a valid licence before allowing him to test drive the car. Don't take anything for granted.
You live and learn.

[Faz]

9 hours ago, Guest1 said:

But I never understood that the compulsory moto insurance is paying for the riders of the bike, but normally NOT for third parties. 

That's the wrong way round.

Compulsory motorcycle Insurance will always cover for 3rd party medical expenses, up to 80,000 baht and 300,000 baht in the event of death of a third party. It does not cover the driver's medical expenses, assuming they are at fault, damage to property or your own motorcycle.
https://www.aainsure.net/faq_motorbike-insurance.html

Similarly, for cars.
https://www.easycompare.co.th/en/car-insurance/compulsory-motor-insurance-cmi

Compulsory Insurance does however provide the above cover even if the driver doesn't have a valid licence.
Additional Voluntary Insurance however will not cover unless the driver has a valid licence.

Quote

The Compulsory Insurance will always cover, even when the driver does not have a driver’s license. An extra Voluntary Insurance will however not cover if the driver does not have a driver’s license. Some insurance companies do accept a car driver’s license. You can check this by contacting us.

https://www.aainsure.net/faq_motorbike-insurance.html

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

That's the wrong way round.

Compulsory motorcycle Insurance will always cover for 3rd party medical expenses, up to 80,000 baht and 300,000 baht in the event of death of a third party. It does not cover the driver's medical expenses, assuming they are at fault, damage to property or your own motorcycle.
https://www.aainsure.net/faq_motorbike-insurance.html

Similarly, for cars.
https://www.easycompare.co.th/en/car-insurance/compulsory-motor-insurance-cmi

Compulsory Insurance does however provide the above cover even if the driver doesn't have a valid licence.
Additional Voluntary Insurance however will not cover unless the driver has a valid licence.

https://www.aainsure.net/faq_motorbike-insurance.html

It is the wrong way around? Perhaps, but Por Bor Ror is (also) including "the wrong driver" with the minimum payout, everyone else (even pillions sitting on the wrong drivers bike/in the car) with the higher payout. And it seems to be the common way, to handle that insurance this way. At least here on Phuket. But I think, most Thais even don't know it any different.

Since the owner of the bike has to be involved, by giving the insurance details, and, in case the slip is not with the person in the clinic or hospital, you need a police report to get refunded.  So you get around the difficulty, to have to get the details from the other driver (often/sometimes gone?) By direct using your insurance.

And even the RTP is pointing (Phuket) to your insurance, if there is a doctor involved. At least for the minor medical help, that won't reach the limits of the insurance cover.

Still, as western driver of a rental, you may not know about it, no one will tell you. And in case you know, the bike owner will refuse. Since it is not a rental bike insurance, anyway. 

Also I got told that some rental businesses, big(ger) rental businesses with lots of vehicles, are using the cover sometimes for other "expenses", with the help of the local insurance agent. So real compulsory cases disturbing that business. But that is just hearsay, of course. As much as it feels possible. ;-)

 

[HolyCowCm]

Regardless of 50cc or 500cc, if the license was not an international license it was invalid on the roads here. Who on gods earth would only have a 50cc license anyway?
 

I had a friend last year break his colar bone here in CM and had no license. The renta bike's insurance company did pay little bit.

[Poolie]

15 hours ago, Vigo said:

Rubbish. Insurers most certainly do pay put.It is called a loss ratio and is documented for public companies.

If you do not understand  how insurance works, then educate yourself. It is not an opinion when you make a statement like yours.

Then tell me who is his insurer?

Did they check on his eligibility before they took his money?