News Forum - British pensioner dies in motorbike accident

[JamesR]

11 hours ago, Mazz11 said:

As I've stated before, I have been riding motorcycles for 35 years, I was also a truck driver for many years.

I found that you need to have a similar thought process regarding other drivers on the road and it is as follows; 

You always need to look out for the idiot driver, the difference is that when you are in a truck you will kill the idiot but when you are on a motorcycle the idiot will kill you. 

A very good reason not to ride a bike in Thailand. 

[Mazz11]

12 hours ago, Transam said:

Viewer discretion is advised..........

Here is the accident, there are a couple of question marks for me.....

https://www.newsflare.com/video/498646/british-pensioner-83-killed-in-horror-motorbike-crash-in-thailand

There is no doubt in my mind that the driver is 100% at fault here.

She either didn't look or didn't see the motorbike in the lane she drove into.

A tip that has saved me on several occasions is 'when a car is at an intersection that you are approaching, don't look at the driver to assess whether they have seen you (they could look directly at you and still not see you), look at the front wheel of the vehicle. As soon as that starts to move start taking evasive action.

After looking at the video it seems that the gent on the bike made the assumption that the driver was going to enter the left lane and then merge.

My experience as a motorcycle rider and truck driver tells me to always assume the worst outcome and plan for that. 

[TedG]

The driver of the car is 100% at fault.    

 

You have to treat every car like a threat.   He needed to be on the brakes soon as she entered the road.  

 

I will never ride a motorcycle in Thailand. 

 

 

[Thaidupcouple]

I watched the video and although the driver pulled out in front of the motorcycle, he was driving to fast and had ample time and a clear inner lane to swear around the car. Too old to be driving that fast and slow reaction time. When I was driving a motorcycle I always expected a car to pull out in front of me in an intersection and plotted an escape path. Bad driving skills on the motorcycle driver’s part. Any time you rear end another vehicle it is your fault 

[Poolie]

Very wise.

[vlad]

Its not just in Thailand, in my Home Country I ride my bike daily, and I use a helmet Cam daily, Taxi drivers are the worse and older drivers. I've had numerous cars just pulling out into my path they look at you and think its only a bike and pull out. One or two saw me and just put their hand up gesturing sorry. As for the Poor rider on that bike yes she pulled out onto moving Traffic but the impact was enough to send him in the air even if he was doing 30mph over there that's 60km he didn't have enough time to react to avoid it.

[oldschooler]

On 6/14/2022 at 9:56 PM, Grumpish said:

Both the accidents that I have had that were serious enough to result in broken bones, both in the UK, were caused by other drivers, one a motorist trying to beat a red light, the other a London taxi driver U-turned in front of me, he was actually signalling left at the time. I have ridden a bike in Thailand and it does feel like everyone is out to get you.

Stopped motorbike riding in UK and other dark cold wet icy countries in 70s. Within a year of getting full license & several close calls. Simply too hostile a setting…..

Here I ride a largish m/ bike for convenience ( just can’t stand stopping for traffic jams / lights, rush hours, parking hassles,  in car)  with my extreme defensive driving learned in Saudi Arabia, and IAM Advanced in UK, with car driving.

Daylight only, perpetual motion, maximum distancing, 360 continually, assuming worse case always.

FULL Helmet, Gloves, Sturdy Shoes, Full Thai License, Insurance, Tax, Green Book & Servicing. 

Would have slowed to see what this threat car was going to do or accelerated fast to get in front. 

Threat Distancing Always. Maximum Safety Effort improves your Odds but never entirely foolproof. 

 

[Guest1]

3 hours ago, TedG said:

The driver of the car is 100% at fault.    

You have to treat every car like a threat.   He needed to be on the brakes soon as she entered the road.  

I will never ride a motorcycle in Thailand. 

That's is absolutely right, R.i.p.

But also it sadly looks like, that this 83 years old biker drove way to fast for his reaction times.

Which means, he most likely haven't had the side road on the "radar", to begin with! On the video it is to see, that he could have seen the car approaching the junction,  BEFORE the car came out!  And I can't see some real  slowing down, neither a try to move to the (for me: left) side of the car. 

Yes, it is absolutely the car driver at fault.  Just in many "civilized" countries the driver (s family) would have to take part of the blame, too! Meaning lesser compensation. And I do not even take into account, that the driven speed was assumingly higher as the law allows.

It is Sad !

 

[Tim_Melb]

9 hours ago, Mazz11 said:

There is no doubt in my mind that the driver is 100% at fault here.

She either didn't look or didn't see the motorbike in the lane she drove into.

While I don't disagree that legally she is 100% at fault, I am concerned about the bike it appears that he may have contributed to his own death through excessive speed and lack of concentration. There is no sign of braking until way to late and if his bike had abs as another commenter suggests then he could have braked hard and gone around her if his concentration was all it should have been given he was riding in Thailand. As I said her actions were illegal and responsibility for the accident definitely falls at her feet, but we all need to remember as we get older that our reflexes diminish and we need to ride (or drive) within our ability and that ability drops as we age. I suspect his massive amount of riding experience has worked against him here as it made him over confident and he has gone too fast with not enough concentration to react when this lady has done the wrong thing in front of him. I'm sure he will be sorely missed RIP. 

[vlad]

Unfortunately, I'm not having a go at Thais but they cannot judge speed and distances they fail to realize the oncoming speed of Bike's or cars if there waiting at a u-turn or entering from a junction. They have to pull out thinking the traffic heading toward them is a few hundred yards away and they don't judge the speed so they will pull thinking the traffic coming towards them will slow down for them. I judge speed and distance always. Of course, the bike has to be a nippy thing that accelerates immediately you twist the throttle you have Seconds to consider, get it wrong and you are in trouble and you panic. 

[JamesR]

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Stopped motorbike riding in UK and other dark cold wet icy countries in 70s. Within a year of getting full license & several close calls. Simply too hostile a setting…..

Here I ride a largish m/ bike for convenience ( just can’t stand stopping for traffic jams / lights, rush hours, parking hassles,  in car)  with my extreme defensive driving learned in Saudi Arabia, and IAM Advanced in UK, with car driving.

Daylight only, perpetual motion, maximum distancing, 360 continually, assuming worse case always.

FULL Helmet, Gloves, Sturdy Shoes, Full Thai License, Insurance, Tax, Green Book & Servicing. 

Would have slowed to see what this threat car was going to do or accelerated fast to get in front. 

Threat Distancing Always. Maximum Safety Effort improves your Odds but never entirely foolproof. 

"Stopped motorbike riding in UK and other dark cold wet icy countries...."

I know it was dark in the 1970's as the electricity suppliers were always on strike.

Icy? It is 25C today and will be 32C tomorrow here, I have not seen any ice for quite a few years down here in the South East.

"Maximum Safety Effort improves your Odds but never entirely foolproof. "

I achieve that by driving a car in Thailand , I am not dim enough to want to ride a bike there.

 

[JamesR]

2 hours ago, vlad said:

Unfortunately, I'm not having a go at Thais but they cannot judge speed and distances they fail to realize the oncoming speed of Bike's or cars if there waiting at a u-turn or entering from a junction. They have to pull out thinking the traffic heading toward them is a few hundred yards away and they don't judge the speed so they will pull thinking the traffic coming towards them will slow down for them. I judge speed and distance always. Of course, the bike has to be a nippy thing that accelerates immediately you twist the throttle you have Seconds to consider, get it wrong and you are in trouble and you panic. 

"....I'm not having a go at Thais but they cannot judge speed and distances they fail to realize the oncoming speed of Bike's or cars if there waiting at a u-turn or entering from a junction."

If that was true there would be millions of car accidents a day in Thailand. 

[Viggen8408]

5 hours ago, Guest1 said:

That's is absolutely right, R.i.p.

But also it sadly looks like, that this 83 years old biker drove way to fast for his reaction times.

Which means, he most likely haven't had the side road on the "radar", to begin with! On the video it is to see, that he could have seen the car approaching the junction,  BEFORE the car came out!  And I can't see some real  slowing down, neither a try to move to the (for me: left) side of the car. 

Yes, it is absolutely the car driver at fault.  Just in many "civilized" countries the driver (s family) would have to take part of the blame, too! Meaning lesser compensation. And I do not even take into account, that the driven speed was assumingly higher as the law allows.

It is Sad !

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. In effect, two 'farang' drivers, so does Thailand really care (apart from the 'fine', of course)?

[Guest1]

19 minutes ago, Viggen8408 said:

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. In effect, two 'farang' drivers, so does Thailand really care (apart from the 'fine', of course)?

Nope, only one Farang driver, the other one is Asian.

Much closer to the Thais, so ....!

Also only one of them is dead, assumingly the car has a insurance, which is another : So .....!

Perhaps another 100 or 200k from the driver to the Thai companion. But I would not really expect more. 

[Viggen8408]

56 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Nope, only one Farang driver, the other one is Asian.

Much closer to the Thais, so ....!

Also only one of them is dead, assumingly the car has a insurance, which is another : So .....!

Perhaps another 100 or 200k from the driver to the Thai companion. But I would not really expect more. 

What I meant was, 'not Thai'. This seems to have an extreme impact on outcome. Of course, the money manages to swing things...

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, JamesR said:

"Stopped motorbike riding in UK and other dark cold wet icy countries...."

I know it was dark in the 1970's as the electricity suppliers were always on strike.

Icy? It is 25C today and will be 32C tomorrow here, I have not seen any ice for quite a few years down here in the South East.

"Maximum Safety Effort improves your Odds but never entirely foolproof. "

I achieve that by driving a car in Thailand , I am not dim enough to want to ride a bike there.

So UK Climate similar to Thailand is it ?  despite being on same latitude as Canada ! Right …..you ignore my reasons for not driving four wheels here and also my mitigation measures. 

I would further add that I would neither live in nor drive any vehicle in Bangkok or CM. Train or Taxi instead. 
 

What car are you driving I wonder ? Unless it’s a two ton Mercedes/ Pick Up / SUV, your condescending  complacency & superior brain won’t protect you from a 20 ton Truck or Bus crushing any thin steel Japo toy wagon. Nor from rear - ender whiplash….not risks I face with my driving profile.

[JamesR]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

So UK Climate similar to Thailand is it ?  despite being on same latitude as Canada ! Right …..you ignore my reasons for not driving four wheels here and also my mitigation measures. 

I would further add that I would neither live in nor drive any vehicle in Bangkok or CM. Train or Taxi instead. 
 

What car are you driving I wonder ? Unless it’s a two ton Mercedes/ Pick Up / SUV, your condescending  complacency & superior brain won’t protect you from a 20 ton Truck or Bus crushing any thin steel Japo toy wagon. Nor from rear - ender whiplash….not risks I face with my driving profile.

"So UK Climate similar to Thailand is it ? "

Your brain has again in its usual manner invented what another person is supposed to have said, I never claimed that.

"......20 ton Truck or Bus crushing any thin steel...", nothing will protect you from that but again I was comparing a car to a motorbike for safety.

Try and keep up with what is being written, stop going off at tangents if you can, concentrate. 

 

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

While I don't disagree that legally she is 100% at fault, I am concerned about the bike it appears that he may have contributed to his own death through excessive speed and lack of concentration. There is no sign of braking until way to late and if his bike had abs as another commenter suggests then he could have braked hard and gone around her if his concentration was all it should have been given he was riding in Thailand. As I said her actions were illegal and responsibility for the accident definitely falls at her feet, but we all need to remember as we get older that our reflexes diminish and we need to ride (or drive) within our ability and that ability drops as we age. I suspect his massive amount of riding experience has worked against him here as it made him over confident and he has gone too fast with not enough concentration to react when this lady has done the wrong thing in front of him. I'm sure he will be sorely missed RIP. 

Spot On & my thoughts exactly. His extreme Age means very slow reaction times at least and his vast Experience (outside Thailand I believe) would have led to sheer Disbelief / Dismissal that such car maneuver could remotely occur !until too late & that’s supported by the video evidence described. Braking way too late with no attempt to cut left behind.  Like to think that with my “ always assume the very worst” + maximum hazard distancing I would have instantly slowed sufficiently to see what this car was going to do

Incidently, you can reasonably / crudely simulate ABS with Fast Cadence Braking whilst Steering.
Saved me from two collisions here. Most Riders unaware or scared to try that though.

Think I’ll be calling it a day on motorbikes at 75. 83 is really silly. RIP

[oldschooler]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

"So UK Climate similar to Thailand is it ? "

Your brain has again in its usual manner invented what another person is supposed to have said, I never claimed that.

"......20 ton Truck or Bus crushing any thin steel...", nothing will protect you from that but again I was comparing a car to a motorbike for safety.

Try and keep up with what is being written, stop going off at tangents if you can, concentrate. 

Was amused by your absurd denial of real UK climate factors when riding motorbikes there, which clearly you have never done.
 

I do admit UK motorbike riders must be quite stupid to ride there in non- summer or city conditions though !

Then you mentioned Thailand Type hot temperatures as of those are year round or normal in UK.

Then once again you ignore my bike riding reasons & mitigation. It’s YOU who needs to open your rather closed hostile mind and Keep Up

A ten year old can determine enclosed four wheels is far safer than exposed two wheels! No Argument there.

You, and one other here, are attempting to tr-direct this thread into a self- righteous argument not to ride motorbikes hereand that car drivers are somehow superior

[JamesR]

10 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Was amused by your absurd denial of real UK climate factors when riding motorbikes there, which clearly you have never done.
 

I do admit UK motorbike riders must be quite stupid to ride there in non- summer or city conditions though !

Then you mentioned Thailand Type hot temperatures as of those are year round or normal in UK.

Then once again you ignore my bike riding reasons & mitigation. It’s YOU who needs to open your rather closed hostile mind and Keep Up

A ten year old can determine enclosed four wheels is far safer than exposed two wheels! No Argument there.

You, and one other here, are attempting to tr-direct this thread into a self- righteous argument not to ride motorbikes hereand that car drivers are somehow superior

I have said none of the above, you have gone into one of your tangents again, it must be something to do with an ego or being childish or something, best if you try and take you frustration out on someone else. 

[astro]

13 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

and that car drivers are somehow superior

They certainly are safer!

 

But I am also one of those idiots who are happily riding a bike in Thailand, first in Bangkok, then out in the country.

No regrets so far.

[JamesR]

2 minutes ago, astro said:

They certainly are safer!

But I am also one of those idiots who are happily riding a bike in Thailand, first in Bangkok, then out in the country.

No regrets so far.

That is what all bike riders must say, it hasn't happened so far so it must be safe, it only needs to happen once.

Pre Covid I saw so many foreigners in Phuket with ruined holidays as they had bandaged knees and elbows and a limp, they were the lucky ones though. 

My thought are my life is worth more than the price of a car. 

 

[oldschooler]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I have said none of the above, you have gone into one of your tangents again, it must be something to do with an ego or being childish or something, best if you try and take you frustration out on someone else. 

You haven’t said much of anything . Just condescending hostility & schoolboy “ psychology”

Oh & the bleeding obvious that “ cars are safer than motorbikes “ and that motorbike riders are “ dim” ( any evidence for such bizarre nonsense? …. er, No).

Your absurd inability to communicate & engage meaningfully is comical.

You provide : No Sense. No Value. No Case. No Constructive Purpose. 

Would love to carry on thrashing you but it’s getting too tiresome….

Dismissed. Off & Out You Go. 

[oldschooler]

22 minutes ago, JamesR said:

That is what all bike riders must say, it hasn't happened so far so it must be safe, it only needs to happen once.

Pre Covid I saw so many foreigners in Phuket with ruined holidays as they had bandaged knees and elbows and a limp, they were the lucky ones though. 

My thought are my life is worth more than the price of a car. 

Those are predominately dumb tourists with zero motorbike experience.

As if driving a car anywhere renders you “unbreakable”. many thousands of dead car drivers here every year. Such hostility,“ superiority” & ignorance

[Mazz11]

6 hours ago, JamesR said:

That is what all bike riders must say, it hasn't happened so far so it must be safe, it only needs to happen once.

Pre Covid I saw so many foreigners in Phuket with ruined holidays as they had bandaged knees and elbows and a limp, they were the lucky ones though. 

My thought are my life is worth more than the price of a car. 

JamesR, you are always the first one to jump onto someone when they generalise about a certain group of people but here you are stating that all bike riders are the same. They are not all the same, some are more tolerant to risk than others, some have zero experience, some have a lot of experience, some focus, some do not. 

I ride in Thailand and have no illusions about the potential dangers. 

At risk of another response regarding generalising Thai or Asian drivers by comparing traffic in many Asian countries to Australia for example.

I am making these statements on my experience in the following countries

• Thailand
• Malaysia
• India
• Cambodia
• Vietnam

From my observations and interactions within the traffic in these countries, the way people drive in parts of Asia is very different to Australia (for example).

(note that I said people as I think many adjust to their driving style to suit the country they live in, including expats).

You need to be aware:

• Many people do pull out into oncoming traffic and expect the oncoming traffic to slow down
• Many people do change lanes for no apparent reason without indicating beforehand
• Many people do make decisions to turn at the last second and may or may not indicate
• Many people do stop in the middle of the lane for no apparent reason without indicating their intentions of what they plan to do next 
• Many people do regularly speed well above the stipulated speed limit
• Many people do overtake you on the inside or outside even if you are travelling at the speed limit

Much of this behaviour seems to be tolerated by the constabulary in all of the countries mentioned which doesn't give anyone the motivation to modify their behaviour. 

I believe that the main reason that you see many foreigners who have been injured from motorcycle accidents is that many of them do not have the required experience to be riding in a foreign country and sufficient checks are not conducted when hiring bikes.

This is my opinion from my lived experience, some may disagree and that is their right.