News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[CamPat]

Zelensky doesn't even give a fiddlers fart about his own people.

 

Wives of Mariupol soldiers dispersed by police at Kyiv protest

Conscription notices given to male protesters demanding evacuation as 50 people defy ban

No this guy isn't ready to join a democratic EU or NATO for that matter.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/wives-mariupol-soldiers-dispersed-police-kyiv-protest-ukraine-russia

[Fanta]

21 minutes ago, CamPat said:

Zelensky doesn't even give a fiddlers fart about his own people.

It is not about Zelenskyy not giving a fiddlers fart. Notice that all the signs are in English, not Ukrainian. imo, their unspoken message is that Zelenskky has failed/cannot help the trapped soldiers and only NATO etc can help them. Bad publicity. 

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, Fanta said:

their unspoken message is that Zelenskky has failed/cannot help the trapped soldiers and only NATO etc can help them. Bad publicity. 

Besides the fact they could give up anytime they wish, Zelenskyy can’t stop them. Proof of that was the Ukrainian marines who surrender a couple of weeks ago. The fact is they themselves have said time and again they won’t surrender. No doubt they believe Russia can’t be trusted to treat them (being different then the Marines) within the rules of warfare. Understandable since Russia has already said they would be tried in Russia courts (with the expected pre-determined results). 
 

better to die with your boots on in that case 

[Alavan]

18 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Your entire post is just full of plattitudes. So maybe do some research and check up which merchant ships brought the airplane fuel to RAF during Battle of Britain and way into 1941. 

   I come with a number nad you give me some anecdotes about some individuals who were torpedoed. >One thing has nothing to do with the other.  

Sailing and shipping has been my job for from 164 till 2012. I met guys, I read reports about convoys, so don't give you bullsh*t about knowing better. If I want to speak with a  Norvegian sailor, I would ask a colleague, former captain of Sorlandet, Chrisian Radich, Wilhelmsen and Norvegian cruises.  So f*ckof.

[Alavan]

18 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

 Norway was a NEUTRAL nation at the time the mining started. Is it common practice for the UK to impede sea commerce of neutral nations? Of course I know about the Kiruna mines. Today, they support 90-94 % of the steel to EU.  

  In the Nordic nations, there are a third in staunch oppostion to EU and a little bit less than a fourth in warm emprace of it. In the middel we have about half the people who are uncommitted. Would they prefer to follow the haughty way of the British might is right; or desire to keep their people an egalitarian one? 

    The battle of the Nordic minds are going on as we speak. YOU can only demonize, bully and lecture about your superiority and expect us to eat that up. 

    The Nordic nations would keep the 7th largest EEZ in the world and a hiuge chunk of natural resources and the world's most egalitarian and educated people. All you can do is remain stuck on Sir Frances Drake or Nelson. 

So that is why Quisling invited Hitler since the early 30's.
And 94% from Kiruna... You must go back to Hitler's and Stalin's time. Ever heard of Tubarao in Brasil, Nouadhibou in Mauretania, Dampier in Australia, or Saldanha Bay in South Africa? Those are todays pots for Iron ore accepting VLOC'' of 300000 tons.

 

[Alavan]

18 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

In the Nordic nations, there are a third in staunch oppostion to EU and a little bit less than a fourth in warm emprace of it.

I think you confuse EU and NATO. Sweden and Finland are in the EU, Norway not. Norway is in NATO, Finland and Sweden not (yet).

[Poolie]

Anyway, returning to Elenskiyy and his ultimatum..............................

[CamPat]

Finally some "Good News":

All women, children and elderly evacuated from besieged steel plant in Mariupol

All women, children and elderly people have been evacuated from Mariupol’s besieged steel plant, Ukraine’s deputy prime minister has said.

Iryna Vereshchuk said the current state of the humanitarian operation in Azovstal has been completed.

“This part of the Mariupol humanitarian operation is over,” she wrote on Telegram on Saturday.

It comes after Ukraine announced an evacuation plan for the plant and other parts of the city on Friday.

Earlier, Russian-backed separatists in the Donetsk region said that 50 civilians had been evacuated.

For the 2,000 soldiers, 700 of whom are said to be injured, hope, however, is quickly dwindling, as has become cruelly clear from the irregular messages coming out of the works.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/may/07/russia-ukraine-war-us-package-takes-ukraine-military-aid-to-38bn-un-statement-omits-words-war-and-invasion-live

It doesn't look good for those Soldiers, the injured in particular to get out of the Steelplant alive. It must be a real mess down there in the bunkers but Zelensky is not really moved to make any compromise to get them out.

Meanwhile the Map looks like this now with the fighting getting closer to Odessa:

 

Furthermore the Security Situation in Kyiv is quickly deteriorating, too. I wonder how long before we see some real change in Zelensky's mind that would allow to get a settlement with Russia and stop this idiotic war that was triggered by the western madness of expanding NATO ever further east in Europe.

 

[Fanta]

 

52 minutes ago, CamPat said:

For the 2,000 soldiers, 700 of whom are said to be injured,

How many male civilians/militia were not rescued from the steelworks? Previously Ukraine claimed there were 1,000 civilians trapped underground. 176 have been rescued. They also claim 2,000 soldiers are there. I greatly doubt that number. Russia won’t waste another soldier trying to flush them all out. Expect to see a surrender after May 9 or the steelworks will become a slag pit. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, CamPat said:

Meanwhile the Map looks like this now with the fighting getting closer to Odessa:

https://liveuamap.com/en shows something like realtime progress of the war. Strikes on Odessa airport are being reported, Russia is firing a shit ton of missiles etc etc. They have a live map showing deployment of troops and conflict areas. 
The maps from TheGuardian, BBC and others comes from ISW who are funded by Americans, based in Washington and report to the US Dept of Defense. 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, CamPat said:

Meanwhile the Map looks like this now with the fighting getting closer to Odessa:

According to that map the fighting is getting further from Odesa. Hint the blue color is Ukraine taking territory from Russia. 

[Fanta]

29 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

According to that map the fighting is getting further from Odesa. Hint the blue color is Ukraine taking territory from Russia. 

A picture is worth a 1000 words. The blue circles are missile warnings in the last 24 hours. Ukraine infrastructure and supply Lu routes etc are getting hammered by PGM

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Russia is firing a shit ton of missiles

 

More evidence that Russia could be running short of its most expensive missiles comes from the increased use of cheaper, but more dangerous, “dumb” bombs. So called because they lack the microchips, sensors and satellite positioning systems, such weapons are increasingly likely to miss their targets 

The Institute for the Study of War, which provides daily analysis of the conflict, said the unusual use of an anti-ship missile against a land target “may suggest that Russian forces are experiencing shortages of other types of long-range precision guided munitions necessary to disrupt Ukrainian logistics.” Williams said: “It’s is a sign that they are reaching pretty deep into their cache.” Anti-ship missiles, he said, are generally more expensive because they are equipped with radars or infrared “seekers” that allow the missile to follow and strike a moving target. 

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/world/2022/05/04/deep-into-their-cache-russias-changing-missile-strikes-in-ukraine-could-signal-supply-shortages.html

[EdwardV]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

A picture is worth a 1000 words. The blue circles are missile warnings in the last 24 hours. Ukraine infrastructure and supply Lu routes etc are getting hammered by PGM

Small map, big circles. There is a lot of land there, a lot of roads and trucks are pretty small. That’s if every warning is an actual strike at that location. Every town along a missile route will generate a warning. 

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, EdwardV said:

More evidence that Russia could be running short of its most expensive missiles comes from the increased use of cheaper, but more dangerous, “dumb” bombs. So called because they lack the microchips, sensors and satellite positioning systems, such weapons are increasingly likely to miss their targets

The Institute of Stories for Washington are as balanced as Will Smith’s marriage. If “dumb”’ bombs are being used ineffectively/indiscriminately there would be reports of a lot more civilian casualties. Apart from his guilt trips for the gullible there are few things Zelenskky likes more than to publish his inflated civilian casualty counts. Not dissing him, he must use everything he can to garner support for Ukraine, just saying if he is not claiming that civilians are being slaughtered by Russian carpet bombing then it is not happening. 

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Small map, big circles. There is a lot of land there, a lot of roads and trucks are pretty small. That’s if every warning is an actual strike at that location. Every town along a missile route will generate a warning. 

I use an iPhone so screen space is limited. Regardless, the circles cover all of Ukraine. Go check for yourself at the website. https://liveuamap.com/en There are a lot more warnings than strikes reported by Ukraine and it makes the Russian claims of strikes to be more believable than the few admitted by Ukraine. My intention is to provide a bigger picture than the peephole offered by MSM which is fed by Ukraine and the US.

[EdwardV]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If “dumb”’ bombs are being used ineffectively/indiscriminately there would be reports of a lot more civilian casualties

correlation does not imply causation - just because Ukraine isn’t reporting more civilian casualties doesn’t mean Russian isn’t using more dumb bombs or that they aren’t missing their target. Depends on where they are dropping the bombs wouldn’t you say? If they are dropping bombs on Ukrainian military units, there probably won’t be many civilians around. Same if they are dropping them in the countryside vs the city. 

[Fanta]

18 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

correlation does not imply causation - just because Ukraine isn’t reporting more civilian casualties doesn’t mean Russian isn’t using more dumb bombs or that they aren’t missing their target. Depends on where they are dropping the bombs wouldn’t you say? If they are dropping bombs on Ukrainian military units, there probably won’t be many civilians around. Same if they are dropping them in the countryside vs the city. 

Indeed correlation does not imply causation - just because Russia isn’t dropping as many PGMs doesn’t mean they are running low on PGMs and are forced to resort to ”dumb” bombs. Fit for purpose…. Why drive the Cadillac around the farm when the tractor has a full tank of gas? 

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why drive the Cadillac around the farm when the tractor has a full tank of gas? 

Less flights, less bombs, more hits.
 

Dropping dumb bombs required the planes to fly lower and slower to have any level of accuracy. Otherwise you just scatter them all over the field. Flying lower and slower is just what the anti aircraft crews want. 

[Fanta]

2 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Less flights, less bombs, more hits.
 

Dropping dumb bombs required the planes to fly lower and slower to have any level of accuracy. Otherwise you just scatter them all over the field. Flying lower and slower is just what the anti aircraft crews want. 

What anti aircraft guns? Just kidding. They must be using Soviet era flak guns? Confirmed shoot down of 1 bomber in March and 1 bomber in April. About a dozen fighters in total since the start of the war. I wouldn’t get in a Russian helicopter for all the rubles in Russia. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

They must be using Soviet era flak guns? Confirmed shoot down of 1 bomber in March and 1 bomber in April. About a dozen fighters in total since the start of the war.

 

Combat Aircraft (25, of which destroyed: 24, damaged: 1)

 9 Su-25 close air support aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, destroyed) (8, destroyed) (9, damaged)

 5 Su-30SM multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed on the ground) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed)

 1 Su-35S multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed)

 9 Su-34 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, destroyed) (8, destroyed) (9, destroyed)

 1 Unknown aircraft: (1, destroyed) 

Transport Aircraft (1, of which destroyed: 1)

 1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)

This list only includes destroyed aerial assets of which photo or videographic evidence or pilot death notices are available. Therefore, the amount of destroyed and damaged aircraft is likely significantly higher than recorded here. 

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html?m=1

No doubt they are using USSR flak guns, at least until the German Flakpanzers show up. Of course most of the shoot downs are probably man-pads. 
 

Helicopters? Like you, no way hahaha.

[Fanta]

Ukraine asks Doctors Without Borders to help evacuate Azovstal soldiers.

"The evacuation of the civilians from Azovstal and Mariupol was agreed by The United Nations and International Committee of the Red Cross. However, neither the UN, nor the Red Cross have taken the responsibility of evacuation of defenders and wounded soldiers.”

Gotta give Zelenskyy credit for trying. Does he expect MSF to storm the steelworks and medivac the defenders & wounded out?

 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Combat Aircraft (25, of which destroyed: 24, damaged: 1)

 9 Su-25 close air support aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, destroyed) (8, destroyed) (9, damaged)

 5 Su-30SM multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed on the ground) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed)

 1 Su-35S multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed)

 9 Su-34 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, destroyed) (8, destroyed) (9, destroyed)

 1 Unknown aircraft: (1, destroyed) 

Transport Aircraft (1, of which destroyed: 1)

 1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)

This list only includes destroyed aerial assets of which photo or videographic evidence or pilot death notices are available. Therefore, the amount of destroyed and damaged aircraft is likely significantly higher than recorded here. 

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/03/list-of-aircraft-losses-during-2022.html?m=1

No doubt they are using USSR flak guns, at least until the German Flakpanzers show up. Of course most of the shoot downs are probably man-pads. 
 

Helicopters? Like you, no way hahaha.

Plenty more where those came from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Russian_military_aircraft

Those Flakpanzers should make some babushkas unhappy. Are these the same ones? I expected more of a fire belching beast. 

 

[EdwardV]

Yeah that’s them. Now you can see why Brazil is so happy, they are going to be selling tons of ammo $$$

[CamPat]

Most info we get is from western media which is mostly biased. Since almost all russian and for that matter chinese news channels are banned or censored in most western countries we all judge the news with one eye duct taped. The US just a short while ago created The Ministry of Truth, followed by Elon Musk to buy Twitter in order to secure "free speech". So we are already in a 1984 Orson Wells situation in which it becomes more and more difficult to judge the truth of the content that is available to us. In this war both sides lie.... just like in any other war we've witnessed (like Iraq has Weapons of Mass destruction and the Taliban working on a dirty nuclear bomb). Therefore the numbers we hear of how many civilians and soldiers have been in the Mariupol Steelplant Bunkers are not more than speculation or propaganda or both. Once the Factory is cleared because all remaining human beings are dead we will know perhaps a little more about what's true and what was not.

The Ministry of Truth Director Nina Jankowicz

https://rumble.com/v13lyv2-ministry-of-truth-bidens-new-disinformation-governance-board-is-here-to-pro.html

enjoy