News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Coincidentally, only NATO countries consider this genocide.

Russia also considers the persecution of Russians in eastern Ukraine since 2014 as genocide.

so, why can you kill Russians, but not Kosovars?

That’s absurd. Yet another lie to show nothing Russia says has credibility.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

The Putin supporters just want to distract. It is a kind of sick to come with things happened years ago to apologize Putins warcriminals. Just a tactic of them.

Karl said Russia could have defeated Hitler without any help from UK / US !

That’s the lie Russians are “ taught” and they truly believe this nonsense.

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, EdwardV said:

A general normal conscription, the 135k no, a full mobilization like Ukraine did yes it will be a huge problem.

full mobilization in Ukraine and Russia will give a 1 to 3 alignment in favor of Russia.  

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

Again fake news from you as usual, sure it was un mandate

https://jfcnaples.nato.int/kfor

Like as usual the Putin supporters always spreading fake informations and fake news.

UN SCR 1244 mandate by the UN !

there is nothing about NATO in this resolution.  

So which one of us is the liar?

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

And Bucha shows again what kind of war criminals the russians are

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60949706

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/03/europe/bucha-ukraine-civilian-deaths-intl/index.html

Yes, they are making a new Srebrenica.  

Well, we are waiting for NATO in Ukraine and a new round of confrontation.  

In 10 years, it will turn out that many facts, like in Srebrenica, are falsified, but the deed is done, the enemy is defeated, cheers, cheers.

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by KRLMRX

[butterfly]

the Bucha massacre feels a bit staged to be honest, and the rethoric by some equating the killing to the biggest crime ever in the 21st century, feels like a typical propaganda narrative

let's have an international investigation and see if those bodies in the streets are not killed Russian soldiers dressed up as civilians

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Karl said Russia could have defeated Hitler without any help from UK / US !

That’s the lie Russians are “ taught” and they truly believe this nonsense.

so disprove me

could or not - this is from the realm of assumptions. Most Russians think they can.

In the history lessons in Russia, of course, the help of the allies is mentioned. And, as I said, this help was valuable, especially at the initial stage of the war, and saved the lives of Soviet citizens.

But to say that this assistance has made a decisive contribution is wrong. As we can see from these figures, the Allied contribution is again around 20%:

The Soviet Air Force received 18,200 aircraft, about 30 percent of Soviet wartime (mid-1941–45) fighter and bomber production. Most tank units were Soviet-built examples, but the Red Army used about 7,000 Lend-Lease tanks (plus over 5,000 British tanks), representing eight percent of wartime production.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#:~:text=The Soviet air force received,percent of war-time production.

In addition, let's be honest - it was not help, but business, albeit on favorable terms. The USSR purchased most of these weapons.

that is, with all due respect to the British pilots and American aircraft builders, the French and German resistance, the contribution of the allies to the victory over Nazism is 20-30%.

The main contribution to the victory was made by the USSR, and this memory cannot be taken away from honest people.

 I close the topic.

Edited April 3, 2022 by KRLMRX

[butterfly]

Russia war effort in WW2 was essential, and without Russia, the allies would have lost the war against Hitler, and the Normandy invasion wouldn't have happened

and without the Allies, Russia couldn't have reach Berlin

Russia was 60% of the effort and took 80% of the war casualties hence why they believe they "own" the war

in the west, the Allies think that their late "arrival" when Hitler was starting to collapse with the Russian invasion was "sufficient" to win the war, that's debatable

But Russia effort and sacrifice was the biggest one and in that sense they "own" the victory

strangely, in France, the French Resistance think they also own the victory, and so did DeGaulle 

Edited April 3, 2022 by butterfly

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

full mobilization in Ukraine and Russia will give a 1 to 3 alignment in favor of Russia.  

Yes agreed. However will Russia do one, and if so how to they sell it? Ukraine was easy, big bad Russian wolf at the door. How does Russia need a full mobilization for nothing more than a special operation to rejoin little brother Ukraine to mother Russia? Until then, the numbers will favor Ukraine. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Yes agreed. However will Russia do one, and if so how to they sell it? Ukraine was easy, big bad Russian wolf at the door. How does Russia need a full mobilization for nothing more than a special operation to rejoin little brother Ukraine to mother Russia? Until then, the numbers will favor Ukraine. 

Justifying a full mobilization? The same way most countries sell going to war. The war burger. A simple recipe, easy to prepare, serve and swallow. A patty of perceived persecution covered with a lettuce of  outrage & national pride topped with a rich sauce of fear with a dash of regret wrapped between a pair of propaganda buns. Only traitors don’t eat them and beg for more! 

[Stardust]

4 hours ago, butterfly said:

the Bucha massacre feels a bit staged to be honest, and the rethoric by some equating the killing to the biggest crime ever in the 21st century, feels like a typical propaganda narrative

let's have an international investigation and see if those bodies in the streets are not killed Russian soldiers dressed up as civilians

Wow this really shows your mental health status to claim now it is staged. Sure and they are not dead and the women raped themself. Sure and it is not a war and the bombs footafes and destroyed houses are staged, too. No words for people like you. Did you see tge interview from the neighbours who knew this people, how sick are you??!!.

[Stardust]

6 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

there is nothing about NATO in this resolution.  

So which one of us is the liar?

You are liar you claimed the Nato gave it his mandate by himself not the UN. You even not understand , I gave you even the Mandate number and name.Now you change to a resolutiin. Your the liar and no credibility as any Putin supporter!

[Convert54]

16 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Wow this really shows your mental health status to claim now it is staged. Sure and they are not dead and the women raped themself. Sure and it is not a war and the bombs footafes and destroyed houses are staged, too. No words for people like you. Did you see tge interview from the neighbours who knew this people, how sick are you??!!.

And this link is full of lies and deception ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht 

[Stardust]

3 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

And this link is full of lies and deception ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht 

And has to do with the Ukraine what? Another brain gymnastic from you??!

[Convert54]

9 minutes ago, Stardust said:

And has to do with the Ukraine what? Another brain gymnastic from you??!

Within the context of war crimes it is an undeniable comparative in scale. In proven events there is zero justification that can deflect from fact. How else to establish definitions of "war crime"?

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Justifying a full mobilization? The same way most countries sell going to war. The war burger. A simple recipe, easy to prepare, serve and swallow. A patty of perceived persecution covered with a lettuce of  outrage & national pride topped with a rich sauce of fear with a dash of regret wrapped between a pair of propaganda buns. Only traitors don’t eat them and beg for more! 

That’s funny, and completely accurate. However Putin already sold that burger to justify attacking Ukraine to begin with. Can’t sell it again without explaining why the first burger left them hungry and with a bad taste in their mouth. 
 

It’s not like I don’t think Putin can do to.   Just he’s going to have to offer an explanation of why it’s needed. Basically why the mighty Russian army has failed to date and the mobilization is now needed. After all they have been told for a month how wonderful the special operation has been going. 

[EdwardV]

12 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

In proven events there is zero justification that can deflect from fact. How else to establish definitions of "war crime"?

What kind of justification can be used to keep the killing of civilians on purpose from not being a war crime? Give me a couple of examples if you will. Thanks 

[Convert54]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

What kind of justification can be used to keep the killing of civilians on purpose from not being a war crime? Give me a couple of examples if you will. Thanks 

You misinterpret my words if you think I believe any examples of justification exist. It is the sad fact that historical extreme examples have established the basis of definition. Lest We Forget !

[Stardust]

24 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Within the context of war crimes it is an undeniable comparative in scale. In proven events there is zero justification that can deflect from fact. How else to establish definitions of "war crime"?

You gymnastic and logic means if 80 years ago there were war crimes then the Russians can kill, abuse civillians, children rape women. I call this gymnastic just sick, very sick. It is like because sombody in a neighbour town killed sombody so you have the right to kill sombody. Just another sick gymnastic from you and as always distract and what aboutism. Because you cannot handle the truth or even to look in the mirror.

[Convert54]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You gymnastic and logic means if 80 years ago there were war crimes then the Russians can kill, abuse civillians, children rape women. I call this gymnastic just sick, very sick. It is like because sombody in a neighbour town killed sombody so you have the right to kill sombody. Just another sick gymnastic from you and as always distract and what aboutism. Because you cannot handle the truth or even to look in the mirror.

Talking of  mirrors ...........

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Talking of  mirrors ...........

Yes! 

[EdwardV]

15 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

. It is the sad fact that historical extreme examples have established the basis of definition.

I highly doubt Russian can away with that interpretation for what’s happen in Ukraine. 

[Fanta]

23 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

That’s funny, and completely accurate. However Putin already sold that burger to justify attacking Ukraine to begin with. Can’t sell it again without explaining why the first burger left them hungry and with a bad taste in their mouth. 
 

It’s not like I don’t think Putin can do to.   Just he’s going to have to offer an explanation of why it’s needed. Basically why the mighty Russian army has failed to date and the mobilization is now needed. After all they have been told for a month how wonderful the special operation has been going. 

Supersize it with even more of that wholesome goodness you’ve been told to love! The new freedom meal comes with a side dish of Nasty NATO Nuggets, the same delicious burger with double the perceived persecution patties, lashings of patriot potato fries with free vodka refills. Available nationwide for the low, low price of every able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 50. For a short time only. And you will eat every last morsel. We guarantee it! 

[Convert54]

11 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I highly doubt Russian can away with that interpretation for what’s happen in Ukraine. 

Again the twist? It is exactly why Russia should not get away with ! Nor others !  The tactic of screaming "Look over there" as a distraction from the greater ugly picture is often viciously dishonest even by the presumed "good guys"!

Whatever justification Putin expressed for his Incursion , rightly or wrongly, does not include grounds for atrocities by either side in the conflict !  Sadly there are those that would argue retaliatory atrocity by reason of self defense is justifiable.

The inclusion of mercenary combatants increases the potential for gross abuses.