News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[Thaidup]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Sometimes former Intelligence Chiefs and former NATO Commanders speak directly on Western News channels

Yeah can oath, was it 20 or 50 of them that said the Hunter Biden laptop story from NYP was Russia misinformation?

Edited March 27, 2022 by Thaidup

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

what is incomprehensible to you that Russia has occupied key points and is not moving further, because these points have ended?

You mean besides the fact they only occupy few key points right? Without Kyiv and Odessa, you don’t have the most important points in Ukraine. 

the reason it doesn’t make any sense is because Putin was quite clear in pointing out the need to de-nazify and that Ukraine wasn’t a country but part of Russia. If that was important, than stopping doesn’t make sense. Russia occupies a single major city (and they are in the process of losing that), a couple of power plants and some territory next to Russia. BFD. You might be selling, but no one is buying. 

[vlad]

3 hours ago, EdwardV said:

You mean besides the fact they only occupy few key points right? Without Kyiv and Odessa, you don’t have the most important points in Ukraine. 

the reason it doesn’t make any sense is because Putin was quite clear in pointing out the need to de-nazify and that Ukraine wasn’t a country but part of Russia. If that was important, than stopping doesn’t make sense. Russia occupies a single major city (and they are in the process of losing that), a couple of power plants and some territory next to Russia. BFD. You might be selling, but no one is buying. 

In my opinion, this thread has ended because a certain member will never accept the truth so will continue to deny anything he is told and it will go round and round till its locked its served ir purpose time to move on.

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

read only Facebook and Instagram, only there you will find the truth. Amen.

Ah so only there can you find stuff you agree with.

[Fanta]

10 hours ago, Faz said:

The fact over 10 millions civilians have left their homes wouldn't have anything to do with that would it?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472

Had they stayed in their homes, your figure could be realistic.

There are around 40 million Ukrainians and 10 million have fled. And there are at least 1 million souls still in Mariupol, 2 million have fled. If the Russians were hell bent on killing civilians as some claim there would be a lot more civilian casualties, at least 10% alone in Mariupol so my number is realistic. 

[Fester]

12 minutes ago, Fanta said:

There are around 40 million Ukrainians and 10 million have fled. And there are at least 1 million souls still in Mariupol, 2 million have fled. If the Russians were hell bent on killing civilians as some claim there would be a lot more civilian casualties, at least 10% alone in Mariupol so my number is realistic. 

Your numbers are never realistic. Pre invasion the Mariupol population was a maximum of 450,000.

From the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60894142

While 140,000 civilians have managed to escape from besieged Mariupol, another 170,000 are still trapped there, the city council says. Relentless Russian shelling for more than three weeks has reduced the city to ruins, its terrified civilians hiding in cellars, desperately short of water, food and medicine.

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, Fester said:

Your numbers are never realistic. Pre invasion the Mariupol population was a maximum of 450,000

My bad. That’s why I should have provided a link.  And this is the only instance that my numbers have been questioned so don’t try that smear. Some other Ukrainian city had 3 million and 1 million remain. Kyiv?  Anyway, 170,000 civilians are still in Mariupol and with a civilians casualty rate of 10% there should be at least 17,000 dead civilians. There isn’t so if that isn’t proof to some that the Russians are not explicitly targeting civilians then some people refuse to believe their very own numbers. 

[Fester]

43 minutes ago, Fanta said:

My bad. That’s why I should have provided a link.  And this is the only instance that my numbers have been questioned so don’t try that smear. Some other Ukrainian city had 3 million and 1 million remain. Kyiv?  Anyway, 170,000 civilians are still in Mariupol and with a civilians casualty rate of 10% there should be at least 17,000 dead civilians. There isn’t so if that isn’t proof to some that the Russians are not explicitly targeting civilians then some people refuse to believe their very own numbers. 

Did you get access and time for an accurate body count? 

Thought not.

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Did you get access and time for an accurate body count? 

Thought not.

Sigh… I said both sides are lying about casualties figures. Governments do that in war time. Neither side will admit their actual losses therefore no accurate, known to the public figure exists. You can believe what you want however, if history is any judge, that doesn’t make anyone’s claimed figures credible. 

[Smithydog]

13 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

perhaps because Russia does not consider Mariupol to be Ukrainian territory. This is the territory of the DPR recognized by Russia.

Generally a territory has solid internationally identifiable boundaries before any recognition of it being independent is given. Unlike this area which seems more like "we will recognise this part and see what happens next".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/22/what-are-donetsk-and-luhansk-ukraines-separatist-statelets

In the long term both will likely be added into Russia in another illegal action at some stage with some sort of farcical referendum like held in the Crimea 

https://khpg.org/en/1458089893

But wait a moment. Wasn't it the stated intention of Putin to de-nazify Ukraine. Interesting how some of the "observers" for the "referendum" were supporters of neo-Nazi leaders, as was stated in the same article. Seems Putin is importing neo-Nazi supporters into the Ukraine.

"At least some of the Crimean ‘observers’ were financed by the Russian-based Eurasian Observatory for Democracy and Elections headed by Luc Michel and Jean-Pierre Vandersmissen, both supporters of the neo-Nazi Jean-François Thiriart and members of the extreme right Parti Communautaire National-Européen (PCN-NCP). "

Also it seems Putin's own council reported on the referendum. Seems he didn't like what was said by them, especially as it apparently stated how inaccurate and unreliable it was. Sadly it can't be seen now. Too much truth for Putin to handle?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/?sh=5bc9d926f172

Russia is an invading force seeking new territory for Putin's warped view and ego.  As with most liars, his version has so many holes in it, it is more akin to a salad colander and leaking in the same manner.

[Smithydog]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

My bad. That’s why I should have provided a link.  And this is the only instance that my numbers have been questioned so don’t try that smear. Some other Ukrainian city had 3 million and 1 million remain. Kyiv?  Anyway, 170,000 civilians are still in Mariupol and with a civilians casualty rate of 10% there should be at least 17,000 dead civilians. There isn’t so if that isn’t proof to some that the Russians are not explicitly targeting civilians then some people refuse to believe their very own numbers. 

Whether an accurate number is ever provided (unlikely considering other wars), or not, civilians have been killed that would not have been killed if Russia did not invade Ukraine. Whether it is 1 or 100,000, the death of them falls squarely on Putin and the Russian forces, no matter if they were "targeted" or not.

 

 

 

[Smithydog]

13 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

why is this tactic not used in Kyiv, Kharkov, Nikolaev, Dnipro?

Why is the Russian army involved with any of these cities. I thought this was a "Peacekeeping" mission for the Russian recognised DPR and LPR? Surely any "Peacekeeping" would be contained to just those areas?

After all, isn't that what "Peacekeepers" do? Keep the peace in a disputed area.

I'll answer the question to avoid confusion. It is not "peacekeeping" it is an invasion by an unfriendly country seeking nothing more than continued expansion. Just another lie told by Putin and his propaganda.

 

 

 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

Why is the Russian army involved with any of these cities. I thought this was a "Peacekeeping" mission for the Russian recognised DPR and LPR? Surely any "Peacekeeping" would be contained to just those areas?

Putin also said he wants a “denazification” of Ukraine. The government is in Kyiv so that’s why the Russians are headed there. He will want to remove the Ukraine government and install his puppets in there.  Capturing Mariupol would give the Russian military a direct link between Crimea and the Donbas region, so easy to move military “stuff” to Donbas. 

[Smithydog]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Putin also said he wants a “denazification” of Ukraine. The government is in Kyiv so that’s why the Russians are headed there. He will want to remove the Ukraine government and install his puppets in there.  Capturing Mariupol would give the Russian military a direct link between Crimea and the Donbas region, so easy to move military “stuff” to Donbas. 

“denazification” of Ukraine. Another statement (lie) in my opinion. His own actions are way to similar in so many ways to those of the Nazis as outlined in this article, than that if the Ukrainian government. 

“denazification” is just a buzzword for him to stir up support in Russia for his actions. Where is all the proof? Are they invading to find it or to give them time to make it up? Putin wants people to believe he had no other course of action. Where is his statements showing proof to other nations at the UN? Where is the proof of all these supposed neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian government. 

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/putin-following-hitler-losing-propaganda-war-by-slawomir-sierakowski-2022-03

So justification for "capturing" Mariupol is to move stuff easier to Donbass? i.e. move stuff from one invaded territory to two other invaded areas. Seems a hollow "justification" considering the Donbass region borders on Russia. Must be really hard to move things over a common border.

Kill more people and take more territory simply to make it easier for me to move my war machine quicker. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

“denazification” of Ukraine. Another statement (lie) in my opinion. His own actions are way to similar in so many ways to those of the Nazis as outlined in this article, than that if the Ukrainian government. 

“denazification” is just a buzzword for him to stir up support in Russia for his actions. Where is all the proof? Are they invading to find it or to give them time to make it up? Putin wants people to believe he had no other course of action. Where is his statements showing proof to other nations at the UN? Where is the proof of all these supposed neo-Nazis in the Ukrainian government. 

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/putin-following-hitler-losing-propaganda-war-by-slawomir-sierakowski-2022-03

So justification for "capturing" Mariupol is to move stuff easier to Donbass? i.e. move stuff from one invaded territory to two other invaded areas. Seems a hollow "justification" considering the Donbass region borders on Russia. Must be really hard to move things over a common border.

Kill more people and take more territory simply to make it easier for me to move my war machine quicker. 

Why are you asking these new questions as if I support Putin? You asked questions and I gave answers that are even confirmed in the Western press. You are barking up the wrong tree if you expect me to defend Putin in this. 

[Alavan]

13 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Putin recognized the DPR within the borders of the Donetsk region of Ukraine in 2014. Mariupol was part of the Donetsk region.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast

Your insults will not change this fact.

Putin can recognize nothing outside the Russian borders. Ukraine is an independent state and Putin has nothing to recognize in that country.

How many people of Ukraine voted for Putin as the leader of their gouvernment?

[Smithydog]

12 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why are you asking these new questions as if I support Putin? You asked questions and I gave answers that are even confirmed in the Western press. You are barking up the wrong tree if you expect me to defend Putin in this. 

Hi Fanta,

Sorry you interpreted it that way. Wasn't intended as such. Just quoted you to build on what you said, which I thought brought up some good points. Why I gave it a like.

More intended as rhetorical questions than directed at you or anyone.

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

There are around 40 million Ukrainians and 10 million have fled. And there are at least 1 million souls still in Mariupol, 2 million have fled. If the Russians were hell bent on killing civilians as some claim there would be a lot more civilian casualties, at least 10% alone in Mariupol so my number is realistic. 

44 million Ukrainians. Only 100,000 left in Mariupol. Russia wants to wreck Ukraine; one element of this is to get people moving out of the cities in very large numbers by attacking cities to create terror not so much direct deaths.
It’s working.10 million Refugees/ Displaced vs. “only” max. 4,000 dead civilians. 

[oldschooler]

13 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Putin can recognize nothing outside the Russian borders. Ukraine is an independent state and Putin has nothing to recognize in that country.

How many people of Ukraine voted for Putin as the leader of their gouvernment?

Well he can but only the minority ethnic Russians in certain areas accepting such illegal “ recognition”, in case of the  “separatist republics”. 

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Holy Order of the One Truth....

I understand

No, you haven’t understood at all.
Truth is not Dogma or Theory like your Religion of Marxism.
Truth is Simply Evidenced Fact.
Any Alternate unsubstantiated Versions would simply be Untruth.

Often all Untruth must be first identified & discarded so what remains can only be the Truth. 

 

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Putin also said he wants a “denazification” of Ukraine. The government is in Kyiv so that’s why the Russians are headed there. He will want to remove the Ukraine government and install his puppets in there.  Capturing Mariupol would give the Russian military a direct link between Crimea and the Donbas region, so easy to move military “stuff” to Donbas. 

They can already move military “stuff” to Donbas from straight across the border - a much shorter and more direct route. They just want Mariupol as another port, as part of the new Russian Black Sea coastline.

[Fanta]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60825226

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Fester said:

Did you get access and time for an accurate body count? 

Thought not.

Even Ukraine claim ( only) 3800 to 4200 ( Wikipedia) total civilian deaths.

Russia goal is not to kill civilians but terrorize them ,by Bombing & shelling & gunfire, into leaving country / cities in large numbers, as part of their (achieved) “Wreck Ukraine” war goal. 

10 million so far now displaced / refugees from 44 million total Ukraine population.

[Fester]

21 minutes ago, Fanta said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60825226

Yes, doesn't mention "easy to move military “stuff” to Donbas", does it? 

[oldschooler]

28 minutes ago, Fester said:

They can already move military “stuff” to Donbas from straight across the border - a much shorter and more direct route. They just want Mariupol as another port, as part of the new Russian Black Sea coastline.

To seal off Azov Sea as Russian lake. If Odessa falls , Ukraine denied access to Black Sea / Med.