News Forum - Russia attacks Ukraine from three fronts, explosions in major cities

[oldschooler]

12 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Rather late - sending is very different to receiving in the right hands, and as I pointed out it's not ideal having a fire and forget anti-aircraft system unless you can easily identify friend and foe by either aircraft type or with an IFF (Interrogator Friend or Foe) system that's operating.

The Ukrainian and Soviet armour and aircraft are effectively identical, hence the massive 'Z' s painted on the sides of the Soviet vehicles, and it's Catch-22: the more weapons you have in untrained hands, the more own goals you're going to score.

I can remember (so it's not that long ago ) plenty of instances of fully trained soldiers shooting up their own fast jets and vice-versa, and even a supposedly 'elite' infantry bn shooting anything that moved around them on the ground or in the air so that they were unused and unusable (no names, no de-railment).

It really isn't that simple.

US speciality ? Forgetting the rather important  “ identify target before firing” bit …. Both sides using identical kit a REAL problem, especially in this regard  ( unique even ?)

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Not helpful though to the cause to be wearing nazi insignia though is it ?

No it dont help but which side are the fighting on?

[Stonker]

17 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

What you’ve not stated though is that those aircraft are Offensive Weapons so won’t be supplied by NATO.

Well, I haven't stated it because what you're saying isn't correct - there are simply no other aircraft that NATO / the West can supply that Ukraine can use.

Whether weapons are "offensive" or not doesn't matter one bit - there's no such thing as a purely defensive weapon on the modern battlefield.

[KRLMRX]

34 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

This symbol like many used by the Nazis in the second world war is actually an extremely old symbol that dates back to pre-Christian Germanic and Scandinavian peoples as part of their pagan religions. These symbols actually have nothing to do with the right wing and racist beliefs of fascism and Nazis. They are quite common amongst Slavic people of Norse decent like the Cossacks of western Ukraine. It is not reasonable to claim anybody using these symbols is a Nazi because the Nazis hijacked this symbolism for their own purposes. It is like claiming that the Christian crucifix is a racist symbol because the Klu Klux Klan use it as part of their symbolism. 

old argument. then why is the swastika banned in modern Germany, because it is a symbol of the ancient Aryans, long before Hitler?

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Not that I agree with Biden’s policy on oil, I don’t, it’s not quite as clear cut as that. The fact the US imports oil doesn’t mean it’s dependent on foreign oil. Even when the US was a net exporter in 2020, they were still importing oil. Biden has little to nothing to do with that either way. The US needs to import oil because its higher tech refineries in Louisiana were designed to process the cheap thick higher sulfur level oil that comes out if Venezuela. Problem is the US isn’t allowed to import from there anymore. Therefore until the refineries finish spending the money to convert to the higher cost sweet oil that’s produced from shale, they need to import the right oil from somewhere. That cheap crummy oil right now comes from Russia. Expect Biden to cut that off very soon. Will suck for a while but it is what it is. On a side note, the US has the second largest oil reserves in the world and can within 1-2 months produce more than enough to become a net exporter again. It’s all about the price point of oil and it’s well above that level already. 

 Don’t know how it is now, but we (Esso)transported a lot of Venezuelan crude from lake Maracaibo ports, mostly Las Salinas, but also Amuay Bay and Puerto Miranda to the North East coast of the US. Elisabeth, Portland, Boston, Wilmington. That crude was OK for the US, while Libyan had to much sulfur. Went to Augusta in Sicily and Fawley UK

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The west has already been supplying weapons since before the shooting even started. Anti tank and anti aircraft weapons being top of the list.

We are still sending them and will not stop.

Yes. Permitted Supply as indisputably Defensive Weapons.

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Well, I haven't stated it because what you're saying isn't correct - there are simply no other aircraft that NATO / the West can supply that Ukraine can use.

Whether weapons are "offensive" or not doesn't matter one bit - there's no such thing as a purely defensive weapon on the modern battlefield.

Yes. However, NATO ARE making that Distinction though….

[Rookiescot]

Just now, oldschooler said:

Yes. Permitted Supply as indisputably Defensive Weapons.

There are no indisputably defensive weapons. 

[oldschooler]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

There are no indisputably defensive weapons. 

NATO (and even Putin) appear to disagree….

[Stonker]

37 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

NATO Fighters are for NATO Airspace ONLY. 

That's simply not true and never has been.

I don't want to go off topic with examples, but there are so many over the last 40 years it shouldn't be necessary.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

NATO (and even Putin) appear to disagree….

No. NATO is providing the weapons the Ukraine says it needs. What Tonto says is asinine. 

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

schizophrenia, when you are a Jew and the president of a country in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of which there is a unit whose official emblem is the symbol of the Waffen SS.

This unit should be disbanded at once.

plays directly into the insane Putin narrative…..

[KRLMRX]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And who's side is that battalion on?

Tonto's or the Ukraines?

on the side of the current government of Ukraine, of course.

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Yes. Permitted Supply as indisputably Defensive Weapons.

 

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

NATO (and even Putin) appear to disagree….

I don't know where you've got this from, but it's just completely wrong.

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

That's simply not true and never has been.

I don't want to go off topic with examples, but there are so many over the last 40 years it shouldn't be necessary.

NATO Airspace meaning anywhere NATO Deploys including NATO Missions into Enemy Lands. NATO will never be deployed in Ukraine unless NATO Homelands Violated by Russia when all the conventional gloves come off.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, KRLMRX said:

on the side of the current government of Ukraine, of course.

Right so their insignia matters not a jot. Nor does their apparent political views given they are essentially working for a president who happens to be Jewish.

If your point is that a right wing Regiment would rather fight for a Jewish leader than the Putin regime then you are correct. Anything else means you are wrong.

Again.

[Stonker]

11 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

US speciality ? Forgetting the rather important  “ identify target before firing” bit …. Both sides using identical kit a REAL problem, especially in this regard  ( unique even ?)

No, it's anything but a "US specialty" but a universal problem. I'm happy to give any number of examples by PM, but here isn't the place.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

This unit should be disbanded at once.

plays directly into the insane Putin narrative…..

You need to understand the history of that Regiment. It is a right wing RUSSIAN speaking unit.

The very fact they would rather fight alongside a Jewish president rather than RUSSIAN forces under Putin tells you everything you need to know. 

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I don't know where you've got this from, but it's just completely wrong.

Right so what are NATO waiting for exactly ? Ukrainian Fighter Losses perhaps, I would get that but still why wait to supply reserve fighters ? Five Day Old Invasion Now with Russians preparing to enter the major cities …..

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

NATO Airspace meaning anywhere NATO Deploys including NATO Missions into Enemy Lands. NATO will never be deployed in Ukraine unless NATO Homelands Violated by Russia when all the conventional gloves come off.

But NATO isn't deploying so WTF are you talking about?

It's supplying equipment - or rather individual countries are, although that's a distinction that's pretty much a technicality now.

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No, it's anything but a "US specialty" but a universal problem. I'm happy to give any number of examples by PM, but here isn't the place.

No that’s fine Stonker thanks.Will research this subject now

[KRLMRX]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Right so their insignia matters not a jot. Nor does their apparent political views given they are essentially working for a president who happens to be Jewish.

If your point is that a right wing Regiment would rather fight for a Jewish leader than the Putin regime then you are correct. Anything else means you are wrong.

Again.

you absolutely do not understand the current situation in Ukraine. as well as decision makers in the West.

For information, the Nazis and their assistants in the person of the OUN-UPA (then version of Azov) during WWII killed not only Jews, but also Russians, Ukrainians (who do not consider Russians to be enemies), Belarusians and in general everyone who did not support their ideology. They did not destroy the military, but the civilian population.

In modern Ukraine there are MILLIONS of descendants of these people who will never agree with the current official recognition of these murderers as heroes of the struggle for independence. That is why you will not see a massive guerrilla war in Ukraine.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

But NATO isn't deploying so WTF are you talking about?

It's supplying equipment - or rather individual countries are, although that's a distinction that's pretty much a technicality now.

Stonks what were are getting here is the usual Putin Bot tactic of flooding a thread with a scatter gun of nonsense until the mods get sick of it and close it down.

Lets try and stay focused and on topic. Yeah I know. I'm doing it too.

[oldschooler]

24 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If anyone is behaving like a nazi its Tonto Putin. Anyone who opposes him is either arrested or murdered. Seizing land from other nations. Threatening countries with world war and nuclear destruction.

But its all going wrong. The west and in particular NATO is now more united than ever. The war in the Ukraine is going badly wrong. His own people disagree with the illegal war in the Ukraine which he said he had no intention of invading.

So a power crazed megalomaniac liar is finally getting his comeuppance. He will be lucky to survive this alive with a life sentence. Most likely he will end up dead at the hands of his own henchmen.  

Putin clearly a War Criminal. Add “Murdering Civilians” & “ Bombing Non- Military Residential Areas@. Hague IC Court will “want a word” soon .
Ukraine could issue a $10 million DOA Bounty.Especially if it’s true that Putin has sent 400 Russian Wagner Tier 1 Operators into Kyiv to kill 23 top Ukrainians….

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, KRLMRX said:

you absolutely do not understand the current situation in Ukraine. as well as decision makers in the West.

For information, the Nazis and their assistants in the person of the OUN-UPA (then version of Azov) during WWII killed not only Jews, but also Russians, Ukrainians (who do not consider Russians to be enemies), Belarusians and in general everyone who did not support their ideology. They did not destroy the military, but the civilian population.

In modern Ukraine there are MILLIONS of descendants of these people who will never agree with the current official recognition of these murderers as heroes of the struggle for independence. That is why you will not see a massive guerrilla war in Ukraine.

Yeah because we are not seeing millions of Ukrainians taking up arms right now to fight the illegal invasion from Russia.