News Forum - France Saturday: 105,000 protest vaccine, 303,669 get Covid-19

[Manu]

15 hours ago, Faraday said:

They went through complete clinical trials, & weren't experimental.

Big difference.

Not to mention that these diseases kill kids and healthy young adults in high numbers, not covid.

[BlueSphinx]

37 minutes ago, Transam said:

But France, like anywhere else, also has fruitcakes to deal with...

A worldview dividing people in Fruitcakes and Pincushions...

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

11 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

By the breath of God they perish,

God should do something to rid himself of his Halitosis. Worst case in human history!

[Manu]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Us pro vaxxers were never welcome there given how we all shot down your conspiracy theories about covid and ivermectin to the extent you and your minions started spam reporting.

"us pro vaxxers"... what an interesting (ridiculous!) quotation. And "the conspiracy theory about Ivermectin" again, you mean that harmless tablet that is still being used around the world for covid? I am puzzled how can anyone not even realise that by now. Never mind.

So pro vs anti vaccines...so for you, that is what it is all about? You are either pro or anti, there is nothing else inbetween? Anyone questioning anything is an anti? It shows your level of ... I rather not say. So I am personally fully vaccinated however I question myself, I share views and opinions of others here you obviously categorise unobjectively as "anti"...does that make me an "anti" too? Can a vaccinated person be an antivax?? It reminds me the story of an Israeli newspaper accusing Noam Chomsky of being antisemit cause he is a harder defender of Palestinians rights. A jew being antisemit? A vaccinated person being an antivax? Sure, why not, it is the "new normal" world after all. Use the magic word when you have 0 argument.

Now a little more seriously, being French, I have been watching closely what has been happening in my country for the last 2 years. Like others have said, this article is very poor, mixing "antivaxx" with "anti Pass". Well, to express how I feel about this article, the poor coverage and understanding, on purpose sometimes but mostly by lack of knowledge, I would describe it by saying it could have been written by Rookiescot. NO need to say more.

Firstly, scientists in France have been divided from the start. Not pro, not anti, but with a different approach how to deal with the pandemic at every stage but especially now. Most of them, doctors, professors, scientists are against the vaccination for covid for kids for example. The strategy of Macron is mass vaccination, nothing else. To understand Macron, he is a former banker of the Rotshild bank (ironically, his last deal as a banker was about the purchase of the nutrition department of Pfizer for Nestle, 2 of the most ethical companies as we all know), he is an elite, an oligarch. His target is to dismantle all public owned assets to put them in the private hands of his friends the oligarchs, and he is doing a great job. And that includes the health care system. Now the "pro vaxx" Rookiescott and your friends, how do you explain that Macron dismantled another 5700 hospital beds, including intensive care beds, in 2020 in the middle of the pandemic? Maybe that explains partially how the health care system of a rich country like France cannot coope with the common epidemic that covid has becoming now in France.

This protest is against the vaccination pass. The VAST majority of the protesters are vaccinated (please Rookiescott, do not ask me for sources, I do not have time to send you the 100 ones available and it is all in French anyway - do the work yourself if you speak French). The number of scientists against it in France is overwhelming cause it has obviously nothing to do with health but everything with politic. There are presidential elections in France in 3 months and the obvious idea is to point out the blame on anything on a scapegoat, the non-vaccinated in this case, including the constant lies and incompetence of that governement for the last 2 years (not even mentioning the countless conflicts of interest), and to divide the French people, a classic political move. The thing is, people in France are starting to wake up slowly, even on mainstream media "journalists" and others are questioning more and more this mass vaccination strategy as well as the liberticide laws being passed and the authoritarian way the power is slowly sliping. That is what it is all about, Rookiescott and your "friends", not pro vaxx vs anti vaxx, I know you are disapointed cause you love it, but sorry, that's the way it is.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Manu

[Manu]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

All this uncertainty and restrictions sure do make people cranky. I wonder how many protestors have lost a loved one to Covid? I’d hazard a guess…. ZERO 

It makes me laugh how people like you paint themselves as being so virtuous but then show eventually themselves of being the most disrespectful, the hate always come out eventually and in your case, only because you have got no clue, which is the most stupid reason to be disrespectful. Of the over 100 000 protesters (this is by the way the official number, in France for a protest officials give a number, organisators another one, guess which one is always the most accurate?), do you really think that not one has had to endure the loss of a loved one because of covid? Just to enlight your poor brain cause you again missed the point here, this protest is against the vaccination pass, not vaccination. Horrible comment of yours, sir.

[HighSo]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

All this uncertainty and restrictions sure do make people cranky. I wonder how many protestors have lost a loved one to Covid? I’d hazard a guess…. ZERO 

I wonder how many people have lost a loved one due to COVID vaccine? I personally know about 3 deaths and 1 stillbirth, not even counting the other long-term side-effects.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

"us pro vaxxers"... what an interesting (ridiculous!) quotation. And "the conspiracy theory about Ivermectin" again, you mean that harmless tablet that is still being used around the world for covid? I am puzzled how can anyone not even realise that by now. Never mind.

So pro vs anti vaccines...so for you, that is what it is all about? You are either pro or anti, there is nothing else inbetween? Anyone questioning anything is an anti? It shows your level of ... I rather not say. So I am personally fully vaccinated however I question myself, I share views and opinions of others here you obviously categorise unobjectively as "anti"...does that make me an "anti" too? Can a vaccinated person be an antivax?? It reminds me the story of an Israeli newspaper accusing Noam Chomsky of being antisemit cause he is a harder defender of Palestinians rights. A jew being antisemit? A vaccinated person being an antivax? Sure, why not, it is the "new normal" world after all. Use the magic word when you have 0 argument.

Now a little more seriously, being French, I have been watching closely what has been happening in my country for the last 2 years. Like others have said, this article is very poor, mixing "antivaxx" with "anti Pass". Well, to express how I feel about this article, the poor coverage and understanding, on purpose sometimes but mostly by lack of knowledge, I would describe it by saying it could have been written by Rookiescot. NO need to say more.

Firstly, scientists in France have been divided from the start. Not pro, not anti, but with a different approach how to deal with the pandemic at every stage but especially now. Most of them, doctors, professors, scientists are against the vaccination for covid for kids for example. The strategy of Macron is mass vaccination, nothing else. To understand Macron, he is a former banker of the Rotshild bank (ironically, his last deal as a banker was about the purchase of the nutrition department of Pfizer for Nestle, 2 of the most ethical companies as we all know), he is an elite, an oligarch. His target is to dismantle all public owned assets to put them in the private hands of his friends the oligarchs, and he is doing a great job. And that includes the health care system. Now the "pro vaxx" Rookiescott and your friends, how do you explain that Macron dismantled another 5700 hospital beds, including intensive care beds, in 2020 in the middle of the pandemic? Maybe that explains partially how the health care system of a rich country like France cannot coope with the common epidemic that covid has becoming now in France.

This protest is against the vaccination pass. The VAST majority of the protesters are vaccinated (please Rookiescott, do not ask me for sources, I do not have time to send you the 100 ones available and it is all in French anyway - do the work yourself if you speak French). The number of scientists against it in France is overwhelming cause it has obviously nothing to do with health but everything with politic. There are presidential elections in France in 3 months and the obvious idea is to point out the blame on anything on a scapegoat, the non-vaccinated in this case, including the constant lies and incompetence of that governement for the last 2 years (not even mentioning the countless conflicts of interest), and to divide the French people, a classic political move. The thing is, people in France are starting to wake up slowly, even on mainstream media "journalists" and others are questioning more and more this mass vaccination strategy as well as the liberticide laws being passed and the authoritarian way the power is slowly sliping. That is what it is all about, Rookiescott and your "friends", not pro vaxx vs anti vaxx, I know you are disapointed cause you love it, but sorry, that's the way it is.

Not reading that wall of text.

First paragraph told me everything I needed to know. Keep believing the lies about vaccines. Keep believing the lies about ivermectin.

No-one cares about your conspiracy theories. But you really should not be posting those lies and disinformation here.

[think-and-ask]

thank you, people in france,
because many people there, are on streets, many times,
also much older people, much without mask, and not got sick or died.

same in some other countries in europe,
where people are less healthy than in southern countries.
and there are many people who got 1-2 vaccines, but not want, any more.

confuse winter-sick, lockdown-sick, news-scared-sick, etc. people, are not virus-sick people,
no longer is supported by a so called majority. ( most, never really care in life ).
good-bye, trust of t.v. ( tel-l e/a vision ).
 

[think-and-ask]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Not reading that wall of text.

First paragraph told me everything I needed to know. Keep believing the lies about vaccines. Keep believing the lies about ivermectin.

No-one cares about your conspiracy theories. But you really should not be posting those lies and disinformation here.

conspiracy theories as, dangerous lab-virus, is getting old and pointless,
same for to believe, government and pharma corporations care about to be fully healthy,
although their corruption list is too long to ignore.

[SnapDragon]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Not reading that wall of text.

First paragraph told me everything I needed to know. Keep believing the lies about vaccines. Keep believing the lies about ivermectin.

No-one cares about your conspiracy theories. But you really should not be posting those lies and disinformation here.

Should have made your way to the second paragraph Mr Rookiescot.

A good post by Mr Manu.

[cmsally]

2 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

A worldview dividing people in Fruitcakes and Pincushions...

It's funny how the brain works sometimes! When I saw this sentence the first thing that came into my mind was "they will soak up brandy equally well.."

[Stonker]

18 hours ago, Faraday said:

They went through complete clinical trials, & weren't experimental.

Big difference.

No difference whatsoever - the Covid vaccines also "went through complete clinical trials, & [aren't] experimental."

Those stages have been passed some time ago.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Not reading that wall of text.

First paragraph told me everything I needed to know. Keep believing the lies about vaccines. Keep believing the lies about ivermectin.

No-one cares about your conspiracy theories. But you really should not be posting those lies and disinformation here.

Did not expect anything else from you. End of conversation.

[Manu]

49 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No difference whatsoever - the Covid vaccines also "went through complete clinical trials, & [aren't] experimental."

Those stages have been passed some time ago.

"According to data from December 2021 available on the ClinicalTrials.gov site of the United States National Institutes of Health, the end date of the clinical study (phases 1, 2 and 3) estimated by Pfizer / Biontech for the Comirnaty vaccine is 2 May 2023(1), and for Moderna’s mRNA-1273 vaccine the date is 27 October 2022(2). According to the same source, this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine(3) and 2 January 2023 for the Janssen vaccine(4)."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2021-005425_EN.html

(the 4 links to each vaccines study/trial to the site of the US National Institutes of Heath are at the bottom on the page of the link provided)

[vlad]

I told a member from the CC Corner to accept the fact that Clinical trials had been undertaken in the UK, because this Anti Vacca stated no test's or Trials were undertaken. I explained to him that test's and trials were undertaken in the UK and if he now accepts they were. The question I asked him was " Do you now accept that Clinical test & Trials were undertaken in the UK "  Yes / No like all there members when hit with the truth he would not answer says it all.  

[cmsally]

20 minutes ago, Manu said:

"According to data from December 2021 available on the ClinicalTrials.gov site of the United States National Institutes of Health, the end date of the clinical study (phases 1, 2 and 3) estimated by Pfizer / Biontech for the Comirnaty vaccine is 2 May 2023(1), and for Moderna’s mRNA-1273 vaccine the date is 27 October 2022(2). According to the same source, this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine(3) and 2 January 2023 for the Janssen vaccine(4)."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2021-005425_EN.html

(the 4 links to each vaccines study/trial to the site of the US National Institutes of Heath are at the bottom on the page of the link provided)

That should tell you something , ie. we are basically the trial! We are all one big ongoing experiment!

[Manu]

4 minutes ago, vlad said:

I told a member from the CC Corner to accept the fact that Clinical trials had been undertaken and if he now accepts they were. The question I asked him was " Do you now accept that Clinical test & Trials were undertaken in the UK " like all there members when hit with the truth he would not answer says it all.  

Not sure if you consider me as a "member of the CC corner" (are you a child?), but I guess yes, I suggest to follow the link I provided in the post above. At the bottom of that web page, another link (3) sending you to the US National Institutes of Heath related to the AZ clinical trial (I guess you mean that one). It says clearly that "this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine".

Now I guess you know better, so I advise you to contact the US National Institutes of Heath to tell them they made a huge mistake and that the clinical trial has already ended.

The "truth", you said? "I know nothing, that's all I know" (Socrates). Meditate...

[Stonker]

38 minutes ago, Manu said:

"According to data from December 2021 available on the ClinicalTrials.gov site of the United States National Institutes of Health, the end date of the clinical study (phases 1, 2 and 3) estimated by Pfizer / Biontech for the Comirnaty vaccine is 2 May 2023(1), and for Moderna’s mRNA-1273 vaccine the date is 27 October 2022(2). According to the same source, this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine(3) and 2 January 2023 for the Janssen vaccine(4)."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2021-005425_EN.html

(the 4 links to each vaccines study/trial to the site of the US National Institutes of Heath are at the bottom on the page of the link provided)

That's the US - AFAIK neither of us are in the US or subject to it's controls - certainly the WHO are not.

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, Manu said:

Not sure if you consider me as a "member of the CC corner" (are you a child?), but I guess yes, I suggest to follow the link I provided in the post above. At the bottom of that web page, another link (3) sending you to the US National Institutes of Heath related to the AZ clinical trial (I guess you mean that one). It says clearly that "this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine".

Now I guess you know better, so I advise you to contact the US National Institutes of Heath to tell them they made a huge mistake and that the clinical trial has already ended.

The "truth", you said? "I know nothing, that's all I know" (Socrates). Meditate...

See above.

[vlad]

Typical response.  you shouldn't real'y call members Children. What has links from American sites got to do with UK testing ? The CC Corner is locked so i suggest you and your other members do not try and Morph this thread into your CC Corner thread. 

[BlueSphinx]

27 minutes ago, vlad said:

I told a member from the CC Corner to accept the fact that Clinical trials had been undertaken in the UK, because this Anti Vacca stated no test's or Trials were undertaken. I explained to him that test's and trials were undertaken in the UK and if he now accepts they were. The question I asked him was " Do you now accept that Clinical test & Trials were undertaken in the UK "  Yes / No like all there members when hit with the truth he would not answer says it all.  

It's not whether tests or trials were undertaken - the point is whether ALL the required tests and trials were done AND whether the results of these tests did meet the approval-criteria.  And as good as all of these trials have a time-horizon during which data needs to be collected, as we are of course not only interested whether you do not drop dead on the spot after taking the jab, but also in the medium term potential adverse effects of these 'safe and effective' vaccines. 

Note: the fact that Pfizer 'killed' the initial control group by unblinding the unvaccinated in that control group and offering them the jab, should also tell you something...

[vlad]

What part can't you understand ?? Clinical test's and Trials were undertaken before any vaccine was allowed in the UK. 

[Stonker]

49 minutes ago, Manu said:

"According to data from December 2021 available on the ClinicalTrials.gov site of the United States National Institutes of Health, the end date of the clinical study (phases 1, 2 and 3) estimated by Pfizer / Biontech for the Comirnaty vaccine is 2 May 2023(1), and for Moderna’s mRNA-1273 vaccine the date is 27 October 2022(2). According to the same source, this end date is 14 February 2023 for the AstraZeneca vaccine(3) and 2 January 2023 for the Janssen vaccine(4)."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2021-005425_EN.html

(the 4 links to each vaccines study/trial to the site of the US National Institutes of Heath are at the bottom on the page of the link provided)

Now that I've wasted some time checking your link, I see that it's not a statement from the European Parliament at all, as I thought it was and appeared to be, but it's a question addressed to the European Parliament and is not necessarily phrased correctly.

After wasting some more time (a very little), it's clearly not correct.

Far from Pfizer / Biontech estimating that their clinical trial will end on 2 May 2023, they announced on 18 November 2020 that their clinical trials (Phases 1, 2 and 3) had been completed.

The 2 May 2023 date is when monitoring of the participants by Pfizer ends, not the trial.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

The same applies to Moderna:

https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2020/Moderna-Announces-Publication-of-Results-from-the-Pivotal-Phase-3-Trial-of-the-Moderna-COVID-19-Vaccine-in-The-New-England-Journal-of-Medicine-12-31-2020/default.aspx

And to Astra Zeneca:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/astrazeneca-us-vaccine-trial-met-primary-endpoint.html

You can get a full explanation at:

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/vaccine-development

 

 

[cmsally]

46 minutes ago, vlad said:

I told a member from the CC Corner to accept the fact that Clinical trials had been undertaken in the UK, because this Anti Vacca stated no test's or Trials were undertaken. I explained to him that test's and trials were undertaken in the UK and if he now accepts they were. The question I asked him was " Do you now accept that Clinical test & Trials were undertaken in the UK "  Yes / No like all there members when hit with the truth he would not answer says it all.  

Clinical trials of AZ "estimated completion date" October 2021 and December 2021. They were vaccinating people way before then.

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04324606

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04400838

[Stonker]

14 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

It's not whether tests or trials were undertaken - the point is whether ALL the required tests and trials were done AND whether the results of these tests did meet the approval-criteria.

They were AND they did.

 

11 minutes ago, vlad said:

What part can't you understand ?? Clinical test's and Trials were undertaken before any vaccine was allowed in the UK. 

We've been had, @vlad -  the links don't say what they're alleged to say. What a surprise !