News Forum - Cathay Pacific crew fired after refusing to get vaccinated

[AdamX]

15 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I agree it should be personal choice 

But you keep ignoring the fact a private company can also make the choice to not employ unvaccinated people 

They certainly can, but where should this stop?

Can a private company refuse to employee vaccinated people as they have been proven to transmit covid.

In reality, most employers want nothing to do with testing, but if they did, it should be an antibody test not a vaccination.

Personally, I tell my employees don't ask, don't tell as your medical history is your personal business.

Those who still have concerns need to rely on the vaccines they chose to take and if that's not enough, they should take their fears up with the vaccine companies who sell a product that does not work

 

[AdamX]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:51 PM, Shark said:

I agree with this message in the fullest extend.

I'm done with the anti-vaxxers dictating vaxxing people how to behave or that we 'should've known better'.

 

But its the vaxers that are lecturing the rest, not vice versa.

 

[Mamachigawa]

So what is Cathay Pacific going to do if countries require vaccination to enter, pay air hostesses and pilots to do nothing at the Hong Kong airport ? 30,000 children were hospitalized for ovid in the US in August alone lead by the states with least vaccination rates and  most anti-vaccination lunacy.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/09/us/covid-children-cases-icu.html

[billywillyjones]

30 minutes ago, AdamX said:

But its the vaxers that are lecturing the rest, not vice versa.

Yeah a lot sound like haters.  I think it boils down to not being fully confident of their decisions and justify what they have done by huddling together and finding a common enemy.  Many forms of prejudice have originated in the insecurities of the oppressors.

Edited September 16, 2021 by billywillyjones

[JohninDublin]

8 minutes ago, Xaos said:

In USA top military pilots quits on masse. Stealth bombers, fighter jet pilots etc. Took years to train and millions of $.

Let's that sink in.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-falsestorypilots-vaccine-idUSL1N2QC25J

Have you ever bothered to check any thing you've ever posted, either for truth or even credibility?

Does it not occur to you that most sensible people will investigate your fake news stories and expose them for what they are?  Let that sink in!

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, AdamX said:

But its the vaxers that are lecturing the rest, not vice versa.

Your comment reminds me of two people talking and one says to the other "Why are you arguing with me"? to which the other replies, "I'm not arguing with you".

"No I'm not"

"Yes you are"

Ad infinitum.

[Convert54]

2 hours ago, AdamX said:

But its the vaxers that are lecturing the rest, not vice versa.

I have found it is the opposite. People I barely know keep forwarding me emails or messages with "urgent appeals to read and pass on" all sorts of unsubstantiated conspiracy claims and predictions of imminent disaster ! When I have bothered to cross check the credentials of the original authors they almost invariably turn out to be sincere  delusionals with some having long term histories of similar claims. Not once have I received anything that has been substantiated by fact but often contain opinions that are presented as such.

I am not sure which irritate me more.. the pseudo science ones or the evangelicals who promise salvation by forwarding them money ! Some are a combined effort!

I am reminded of the story about the invention of the Train when people were told and many believed that to ride in a carriage that moved  faster than a horse it would lead to death because the air would be left behind !

 

[Soidog]

8 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

@Stonker& @Soidog > I am sure PublicHealth England will be very interested in your opinion that they are publishing meaningless statistics.  The FACT remains that in the age category 50-79 there were in the 4-week August period 128.041 confirmed infections in the vaccinated population, vs only 11.212 in the unvaccinated population.  When taking the percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people in those age categories into consideration (which PHE did in the Rate per 100.000 column) there is no denying that that there were proportionally MORE vaccinated that were infected than unvaccinated, which means NEGATIVE vaccine effectiveness.

The authors of the PHE-report (attached for your convenience) did also put these data in a bar-graph.

And they 'explain' this fact as follows "In individuals aged 40 to 79, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated. This is likely to be due to a variety of reasons, including differences in the population of vaccinated and unvaccinated people as well as differences in testing patterns".  Which doesn't explain anything, because it would mean that in different populations the difference would be even larger...

Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_36.pdf 1.21 MB · 0 downloads

Ok, well I tried to explain. While your words may be correct, your understanding and comprehension of what this means in terms of vaccine efficacy and it’s importance in fighting Covid is incorrect. Do you honestly think that if you are right, that this would not be major news plastered all over U.K. media? Everyone from drugs companies to ministers to medical experts would be being grilled on the problem. I’m sorry but you really need to go away and think with a clear mind. 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, Soidog said:

I’m sorry but you really need to go away and think with a clear mind. 

You used 6 words too many again...

[JohninDublin]

7 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Ok, well I tried to explain. While your words may be correct, your understanding and comprehension of what this means in terms of vaccine efficacy and it’s importance in fighting Covid is incorrect. Do you honestly think that if you are right, that this would not be major news plastered all over U.K. media? Everyone from drugs companies to ministers to medical experts would be being grilled on the problem. I’m sorry but you really need to go away and think with a clear mind. 

When reading news stories that appear to be OTT, the acid test I apply is "If this is true, why are we not reading/hearing about it in other media"? Never have got an answer to that question when I have raised doubts about some of the things I read online from a certain type of "citizen journalist".

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

When reading news stories that appear to be OTT, the acid test I apply is "If this is true, why are we not reading/hearing about it in other media"? Never have got an answer to that question when I have raised doubts about some of the things I read online from a certain type of "citizen journalist".

Funnily enough, that’s often my question and I get the same kind of response. I suppose once you allow yourself to believe that only you have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines, the insight to really understand the numbers and be smart enough never have the wool pulled over your eyes, then you have no problem believing the world media haven’t spotted what you have? 

[JohninDublin]

19 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Funnily enough, that’s often my question and I get the same kind of response. I suppose once you allow yourself to believe that only you have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines, the insight to really understand the numbers and be smart enough never have the wool pulled over your eyes, then you have no problem believing the world media haven’t spotted what you have? 

Ah! That clears that mystery up for me. Who'd a thunk the explanation could be so simple?

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Ah! That clears that mystery up for me. Who'd a thunk the explanation could be so simple?

"Education is not the learning of the facts, but the training of the mind to think"

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

When reading news stories that appear to be OTT, the acid test I apply is "If this is true, why are we not reading/hearing about it in other media"? Never have got an answer to that question when I have raised doubts about some of the things I read online from a certain type of "citizen journalist".

I have asked the same question many times and the answer is usually the media companies are under the control of the government (UK) and the real truth is being hidden, plus the person who actually knows the truth has secret access to real news items, we don't.

At that point it is best to give up.

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

"Education is not the learning of the facts, but the training of the mind to think"

I hope not, I wouldn't want to be going under a surgeons knife and he says to me, "Just give me a minute or two, I have been educated to think but I never got around to learning the facts about medicine and its workings, I hope you are OK with that" :)

It is true the more education you have in learning the details of a particular skill, you do develop techniques to enable you to think more easily around new problems and get to solutions more quickly but without facts a person has no skill or education.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by JamesR
typo

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, JamesR said:

I hope not, I wouldn't want to be going under a surgeons knife and he says to me, "Just give me a minute or two, I have been educated to think but I never got around to learning the facts about medicine and its workings, I hope you are OK with that" (;

It is true the more education you have in learning the details of a particular skill, you do develop techniques to enable you to think more easily around new problems and get to solutions more quickly but without facts a person has no skill.

One doesn't exist completely without the other... But you have people that are naturally good at something without knowing the background.

And I want a surgeon who will think of anatomical variations rather than one who can't do it if the situation isn't according to the textbook.

And there are lots of things that, with a logical mind, can be called intuition, analogy or deduction even without knowledge of the particular skill.

But having both is the best of both worlds.

[JamesR]

22 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

One doesn't exist completely without the other... But you have people that are naturally good at something without knowing the background.

And I want a surgeon who will think of anatomical variations rather than one who can't do it if the situation isn't according to the textbook.

And there are lots of things that, with a logical mind, can be called intuition, analogy or deduction even without knowledge of the particular skill.

But having both is the best of both worlds.

All of that is true but my comment was in reply to "Education is not the learning of the facts, but the training of the mind to think" and it still stands. 

I hope the pilot on the next plane I get on has specific education on how to fly the plane and is not just relying on intuition. 

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, JamesR said:

All of that is true but my comment was in reply to "Education is not the learning of the facts, but the training of the mind to think" and it still stands. 

I hope the pilot on the next plane I get on has specific education on how to fly the plane and is not just relying on intuition. 

I know. Banter.

But when it goes off the rails, I hope he can manage without rules and do something completely unregulated to save his passengers like Captain Sully on the Hudson

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

I have asked the same question many times and the answer is usually the media companies are under the control of the government (UK) and the real truth is being hidden, plus the person who actually knows the truth has secret access to real news items, we don't.

At that point it is best to give up.

So it wasn't the Illuminati, Deep State, New World Order, Freemasons or Lizards? One must be grateful for small mercies, but sooner or later, the evidence of their involvement will be exposed.

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

"Education is not the learning of the facts, but the training of the mind to think"

A similar quote that I once heard, "Educations is not the assimilation of facts, but the understanding of them".

[JamesR]

48 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

I know. Banter.

But when it goes off the rails, I hope he can manage without rules and do something completely unregulated to save his passengers like Captain Sully on the Hudson

I hope not as recovering from emergencies is part of the training, Captain Sully did not do anything unregulated, he chose the best place to land which in this instance was on water, he kept his wings level, he kept the nose up at the last moment and successfully forced landed the aircraft.

What he was commended for was his skill but he was following procedures he had been taught. 

I had flying lesson and after a number of hours we practiced forced landings, you fly to three thousands feet, the instructor turns the engine power down so it is idling, you choose a place to land and set the trim of the aircraft to land at that point, you proceed down at the correct glide angle and then power on and climb again just before landing as you do not actually land as you might damage the aircraft.

But the captain above would have had many hours on a simulator practicing forced landings on water and other surfaces to a very realistic level. 

When I say simulator I mean a multimillion pound simulator which is a room simulating the inside of a cockpit and is moved in x,y,z axis on pistons. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by JamesR
typo

[JamesR]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

A similar quote that I once heard, "Educations is not the assimilation of facts, but the understanding of them".

A lot of quotations written by people who wish to appear to be clever backfire many times as in the instance above  as 'assimilation' and 'understanding' mean the same thing in this context. 

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I hope not as recovering from emergencies is part of the training, Captain Sully did not do anything unregulated, he chose the best places to land which in this instance was on water, he kept his wings level, he kept the nose up at the last moment and successfully forced landed the aircraft.

What he was commended for was his skill but he was following procedures he had been taught. 

I had flying lesson and after a number of hours we practiced forced landings, you fly to three thousands feet, the instructor turns the engine power down so it is idling, you choose a place to land and set the trim of the aircraft to land at that point, you proceed down at the correct glide angle and then power on and climb again just before landing as you do not actually land as you might damage the aircraft.

But the captain above would have had many hours on a simulator practicing forced landings on water and other surfaces to a very realistic level. 

He wasn't actually commended, but prosecuted...

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, JamesR said:

A lot of quotations written by people who wish to appear to be clever backfire many times as in the instance above  as 'assimilation' and 'understanding' mean the same thing in this context. 

Then again, some want to appear clever by picking everything apart and discussing it in more detail than the larger picture intended in the first place.

[JamesR]

26 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

So it wasn't the Illuminati, Deep State, New World Order, Freemasons or Lizards? One must be grateful for small mercies, but sooner or later, the evidence of their involvement will be exposed.

Oh yes I forgot to mention them, they are also blamed too.