Biden stands by decision to withdraw troops, says no leaving without ‘chaos ensuing’

[Fester]

  On 8/24/2021 at 6:42 PM, Stonker said:

I think it'd be more accurate to say that the Taliban is sticking to the 31st.

Since they can close access to the airport any time they want, what would be the point in staying longer?

Why pretend there's any practical alternative?

At least sticking with the 31st means that the Taliban are likely to do the same, while saying now that you're going to go back on the deal, again, could provoke them into restricting access earlier just to show they can.

Whoever's to blame, and I've given up trying to explain facts and that choosing the most fragrant dog turd still leaves you with a dog turd,  the Taliban hold the whip hand as they have since Day 1, and the US gave up any chance of leaving with dignity and honour intact long ago.

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Sounding more like Biden everyday. As expected.

[Morpheus]

  On 8/22/2021 at 8:49 AM, Poolie said:

I largely agree with this.

Apart from the 1960's communism thing. That hasnt turned out too bad overall has it?

America should stay at home. Play bluegrass or something.

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Agree, leave the place to this draconic race, they will never change, its in their blood from their Mongol decendants. 

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 1:02 AM, 9S_ said:

What does it matter if I use quotes or not. It’s clearly your statement not mine. 

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Indeed it is, but the quote function is there for a purpose - to make it clear beyond any doubt who said what, and to quote a question or a point  before replying to it.

  On 8/25/2021 at 1:02 AM, 9S_ said:

Clearly you should know I never said Iranian leaders in Afghanistan you said that. It should also be obvious who I was referring to and it should have been clear they are not in Afghanistan for which I never said Iranian leader in Afghanistan, you said that. 
 

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Yes, clearly I did say it, but you quoted me (in a manner of speaking) so you were equally clearly replying to the question you quoted - otherwise there would have been no point in your quoting me. You were simply badly wrong.

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 3:36 AM, Stonker said:

Indeed it is, but the quote function is there for a purpose - to make it clear beyond any doubt who said what, and to quote a question or a point  before replying to it.

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But you said it. And since I was replying to you it’s obvious as to what I’m referring to especially for you since you used it. 

  On 8/25/2021 at 3:36 AM, Stonker said:

Yes, clearly I did say it, but you quoted me (in a manner of speaking) so you were equally clearly replying to the question you quoted - otherwise there would have been no point in your quoting me. You were simply badly wrong.

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I never said Iranian Leaders in Afghanistan you said it. Im merely pointing out that you said it not me. And I only clarified your misunderstanding of what I said. 

[Stonker]

  On 8/24/2021 at 4:50 PM, Stonker said:

Trump stopped peace talks in September - there was no more "peace deal".

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  On 8/24/2021 at 5:16 PM, 9S_ said:

Oh really!?! Then what is Biden referring to when he falsely claims his hands were tied?

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Without any doubt the most pertinent question in ten pages and the core of the entire thread.

I only wish I knew the answer.

Biden's hands very clearly weren't tied .

The Doha deal, signed in February 2020 between the US and the Taliban, was in four parts:

Part One was the US commitment to withdraw, and included the condition that the Afghan government  release 5,000 "political prisoners" by March 10 2020 ( Part One, Para C), but the Afghan government refused, and to start "intra Afghan negotiations", between the Afghan government and the Taliban on March 10, but that never happened as Para C was never met.

Part Two was the Taliban commitment not to "threaten the security of the United States and its allies", but that never happened as Part One never happened.

Part Three was "recognition and endorsement by the UN Security Council". that was the only part that happened.

Part Four was for "4. A permanent and comprehensive ceasefire will be an item on the agenda of the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations. The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date
and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation
mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future
political roadmap of Afghanistan." That never happened as Parts One and Two never happened.

The agreement was very clear that "The four parts above are interrelated and each will be implemented in accordance with its own agreed timeline and agreed terms. Agreement on the first two parts paves the way for the last two parts."

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

If the peace talks failed (Part Four), which they did, the US was fully entitled to withdraw from Part One and to either re-negotiate or to start from scratch - but Biden didn't and all he did was delay the withdrawal date from 29 May to 31 August.

Why did he "falsely claim his hands were tied"?

I don't know, but they weren't.

Maybe he didn't understand the very simple agreement.   Maybe he didn't want to send tens of thousands of extra troops back into Afghanistan, which would have been unavoidable if the withdrawal was to take place without "chaos" and the US was to have any credibility and any leverage with the Taliban.  Maybe he has dementia. 

Whatever the reason, "he lied", as you're fond of saying.

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 3:44 AM, 9S_ said:

But you said it. And since I was replying to you it’s obvious as to what I’m referring to especially for you since you used it. 

I never said Iranian Leaders in Afghanistan you said it. Im merely pointing out that you said it not me. And I only clarified your misunderstanding of what I said. 

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This could go on indefinitely, and I can't be bothered.

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 4:56 AM, Stonker said:

Maybe he didn't understand the very simple agreement.

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You’re right he didn’t understand. Because it’s Joe Biden. 

  On 8/25/2021 at 4:56 AM, Stonker said:

Maybe he has dementia

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He does

  On 8/25/2021 at 4:56 AM, Stonker said:

he lied

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He did:
 

[Stonker]

What genuinely surprises me here is the anti-Trump / anti-Biden stance of so many commenting here, without many really knowing or having any interest in what actually happened or what alternatives there were.

I fully expected the self-appointed and self-aggrandising "subject matter expert" to appear, whose claims to expertise even if correct for the sake of argument would have been so far down the totem pole that any expertise would have been like asking the milkman about dairy farming, and the Mission Impossible suggestions of poisoning the Taliban food supply, as well as the inevitable "Fire and Fury" crowd who think internal security wars can be won by "battering" the opposition, but I was completely unprepared for the partisan US political divide even though Trump and Biden are so obviously two sides of the same coin and "chaos ensuing" would have been unavoidable whoever was in charge.

Both avoided the draft with dodgy medicals that were obviously fraudulent.

Both wanted to get out of Afghanistan without committing more troops, regardless of what happened along the way.

Both have abused their position for themselves and their rather dim sons and relatives to benefit from.

Both lie without a second thought.

Both are in their seventies and show all the signs of having middle stage / moderate Alzheimer's.

Yet all the attacks are pointed at the opposition, whichever it is, while their own leader's just the same.

How is it possible to not have "chaos" when you have leaders like this?

The US has minimum age limits for Congress (30) and the Senate (25) - maybe it's time to set a maximum age limit before they start even more "chaos".

[vlad]

This thread is about Biden pulling all US troops out of Afghan not what trump did or who to blame who its about what happens on the 31st of August ans what is likely to happen to the remaining people when the last plane takes off. The decision was made and its done and dusted theres no point of pages ans pages of who did what its about the future. So can we stop the bickering of who did this or what I did years ago. We should be debating why the Taliban have told the west to stop assisting Afghans who want to leave and why are they wanting them to stay, or what is likely to happen once the 31st has gone. So please stay on Topic and end this bickering lets leave that where it belongs on other sites.

[Poolie]

  On 8/25/2021 at 6:52 AM, vlad said:

This thread is about Biden pulling all US troops out of Afghan not what trump did or who to blame who its about what happens on the 31st of August ans what is likely to happen to the remaining people when the last plane takes off. The decision was made and its done and dusted theres no point of pages ans pages of who did what its about the future. So can we stop the bickering of who did this or what I did years ago. We should be debating why the Taliban have told the west to stop assisting Afghans who want to leave and why are they wanting them to stay, or what is likely to happen once the 31st has gone. So please stay on Topic and end this bickering lets leave that where it belongs on other sites.

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I've been saying it for days. The Americans wont listen, typically.

[vlad]

  On 8/25/2021 at 7:13 AM, Poolie said:

I've been saying it for days. The Americans wont listen, typically.

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That's why as the good Captain has had to curtail this thread. They will get it locked and spoil it for others. like most threads lately and its always the same. Like I said if you want that go elsewhere its not we want on TT. 

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

Every time Taliban violated against the deal Trump ordered another bombing campaign against them. Taliban quickly learned and for 16 months no US soldier died. Then came Biden with all the inclusive woke morons and BLM marxists. Taliban quickly learned and they said:

and could violate the agreement as they pleased. Now weak Biden is treating them as superior partners unlike Trump. He hit them hard and made sure who is the captain.

Stolen elections have consequences...

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

Both wanted to get out of Afghanistan without committing more troops

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True but Joe Biden did get out and created “chaos” in the process

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

regardless of what happened along the way.

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Excuse me? Joe Biden created, according to NATO: the biggest foreign policy debacle since NATOs inception. The world will feel what Joe Biden has done far worse than when Biden decided to withdraw from Afghanistan, took out Gaddhafi and had no plan afterword: massive migrations to Europe, new base of operations for terrorist attacked from a resurgent ISIS and Al-Qaida. Make no mistake this is the biggest foreign policy F*** UP in 50 years all because of Joe Biden. 

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

Both have abused their position for themselves and their rather dim sons and relatives to benefit from.

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In the words of Harry Truman: “Show me a man who got rich as a politician and I’ll show you a crook” Trump was already a multi-billionaire before assuming office. Where did Joe get his wealth from??

Donald Trump got paid $1 for his presidential salary. He wanted to donate his entire salary to veteran groups but was told he had to accept a salary. He took it and donated everything except $1. Is Joe Biden donating his salary? We don’t know he hasn’t said anything

In regards to Joe’s son hunter, now he is obviously corrupt. The fact that Joe Biden is the main author of the 1994 Crime Bil,l which punished and imprisoned nearly tens of thousands of young black men for decades, but his son Hunter a known crack addict (kicked out of the Navy because of crack) didn’t spend a single day in jail shows how corrupt the Biden family truly is

Can you show me a video of Trumps son smoking crack, like this one where Joe’s son is smoking crack??

Lets not forget Trump was a politician for 4 years. Joe Biden? Half a century. 
 

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

Both are in their seventies and show all the signs of having middle stage / moderate Alzheimer's.

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Only Joe Biden who has Alzheimer’s

Here’s Joe Biden in 2006:

Here he is now:

Versus Trump this weekend:

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

Yet all the attacks are pointed at the opposition, whichever it is, while their own leader's just the same.

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No one is attacking anyone except you maybe…

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

How is it possible to not have "chaos" when you have leaders like this?

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The chaos youre referring to is caused by Joe Biden alone.

NATO agrees, British Parliament agrees, both republicans and democrats agree, former Bush, Obama and Trump officials agree, veterans agree, citizens agree, fleeing afghans agree, stranded afghans agree, and stranded americans agree that this “chaos” was solely caused by Joe Biden.

Trump didn’t close Begram airbase in the dead of night and he wasn’t the one who didn’t notify the Afghan commander partner. That was Joe!

Trump didn’t ignore intelligence, pentagon, diplomats in the ground and military advisors. That was Joe!

Trump didn’t heartlessly evade questions about children falling from planes by saying that was 4-5 days ago (even though it was two, is he really there?). That was Joe!

The chaos that you see now and will see in the next few years and decades to come…That was Joe!

  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

maybe it's time to set a maximum age limit before they start even more "chaos".

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They? Only one man is responsible for the clusterf*** were seeing now. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by 9S_
Typos. Context about Hunter and crack

[Alavan]

  On 8/24/2021 at 4:42 PM, 9S_ said:

Trump did order the MOAB to be dropped on ISIS-K HQ in Afghanistan. Trump also ordered for the assassination of ISIS leader Al Baghdadi. He also ordered for the drone strike against the Iranian Qasem Soleimani. 

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Soleimani was killed by a drone strike (not MOAB bomb-) near Bagdad airport (Irak, not Afghanistan).
What had this to do with Afghanistan or Taliban?

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 8:33 AM, 9S_ said:

Excuse me?

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No. 

If you're going to only quote part of a sentence, please

at least have the courtesy to quote it in some sort of context rather than just "regardless of what happened along the way" which is meaningless.

  On 8/25/2021 at 8:33 AM, 9S_ said:

No one is attacking anyone except you maybe ...

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So you're not attacking Joe Biden?

We'll just have to differ on that one .

Edited to add:

As I've said, feel free to suggest an alternative as I and a couple of others have, either based on what Biden took on or over the previous twenty years.

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 9:27 AM, Alavan said:

Soleimani was killed by a drone strike (not MOAB bomb-) near Bagdad airport (Irak, not Afghanistan).
What had this to do with Afghanistan or Taliban?

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Absolutely nothing - that was my point also.

[9S_]

<content deleted>

Edited August 25, 2021 by KaptainRob
Enough ping pong !

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 8:23 AM, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

Every time Taliban violated against the deal Trump ordered another bombing campaign against them. Taliban quickly learned and for 16 months no US soldier died. Then came Biden with all the inclusive woke morons and BLM marxists. Taliban quickly learned and they said:

and could violate the agreement as they pleased. Now weak Biden is treating them as superior partners unlike Trump. He hit them hard and made sure who is the captain.

Stolen elections have consequences...

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That simply isn't what happened.

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 9:30 AM, Stonker said:

So you're not attacking Joe Biden?

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Why would attack Joe Biden? He’s already doing that to himself by according to NATO, British Parliament, both republicans and democrats, former Bush, Obama, and Trump officials, majority of American citizens, stranded Americans, stranded Afghans, Afghans who escaped that he caused the biggest foreign policy debacle since the inception of NATO, a vote of contempt, strong disapproval of his handling of Afghanistan.

  On 8/25/2021 at 9:30 AM, Stonker said:

No. 

If you're going to only quote part of a sentence, please

at least have the courtesy to quote it in some sort of context rather than just "regardless of what happened along the way" which is meaningless.

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  On 8/25/2021 at 5:29 AM, Stonker said:

Both wanted to get out of Afghanistan without committing more troops, regardless of what happened along the way.

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Excuse me? Joe Biden created, according to NATO: the biggest foreign policy debacle since NATOs inception. The world will feel what Joe Biden has done far worse than when Biden decided to withdraw from Afghanistan, took out Gaddhafi and had no plan afterword: massive migrations to Europe, new base of operations for terrorist attacked from a resurgent ISIS and Al-Qaida. Make no mistake this is the biggest foreign policy F*** UP in 50 years all because of Joe Biden

You still haven’t rebutted:

1. How Biden supposedly didn’t abuse his position along with his dimwitted son:

2. Joe Bidens obvious signs of Alzheimer’s

3. Joe supposedly didn’t create “chaos”

4. Joe’s age regarding his “chaos” that he created alone. 
 

You seem apt at focusing on only 1-2 points versus me who goes after most of your points. 

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 11:08 AM, Stonker said:

That simply isn't what happened.

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Yes it did. 
 

Joe Biden isn’t extending the withdrawal date. He is complying with the Talibans demand to withdraw all troops by Aug 31 regardless of who is left behind. 

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 11:13 AM, 9S_ said:

Yes it did. 

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Sorry, I don't want to play more "ping pong" with you as I'm as tired of it as others are, but it's simply untrue.

Since the formal cessation of coalition operations  in 2014, for example:

22 US servicemen died in Afghanistan in 2015 (26 coalition troops in total),

13 in 2016 (15 total)

15 in 2017 (17 total)

14 in 2018 (19 total)

24 in 2019 (26 in total)

and 11 in 2020.

There have been no US deaths since the Doha agreement in February, but neither have there been any violations involving US or coalition forces.

What's claimed simply didn't happen.

You're fully entitled to your own opinion and I can't be bothered to try to rationalise anything with you anymore, but your claims are simply wrong.

[9S_]

  On 8/25/2021 at 11:26 AM, Stonker said:

You're fully entitled to your own opinion and I can't be bothered to try to rationalise anything with you anymore, but your claims are simply wrong.

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No it’s not. 
 

According to the NY Post Joe Biden groveling as Taliban calls the shots: Goodwin

source: https://nypost.com/2021/08/24/joe-biden-groveling-as-taliban-calls-the-shots-goodwin/

  On 8/25/2021 at 11:26 AM, Stonker said:

entitled to your own opinion

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Opinion? It’s fact. I backed up mine with sources. 
 

You still haven’t shown me proof of Trump’s “corruption” as I showed you Joe’s and his sons. 

You still haven’t shown me proof of Trumps supposed “Alzheimer’s” while I showed you Joe in early 2000 and him speaking a month ago versus Trump during the weekend

You still haven’t shown proof how Trump being NOT in office when Biden created, according to NATO “the biggest debacle in foreign policy since NATO’s inception” nor how “British parliament voted in contempt against Joe Biden” but not Trump. 
 

My points and arguments here still stands:

Edited August 25, 2021 by 9S_
Added NY Post link

[Stonker]

  On 8/25/2021 at 11:12 AM, 9S_ said:

 You still haven't rebutted (snip)

You seem apt at focusing on only 1-2 points versus me who goes after most of your points

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Why would I "rebut" your points about Biden?

I've just raised them all, for both Biden and Trump.

All you seem interested in now is an argument, regardless of the content.

Sorry, but even my patience and interest have limits.

[KaptainRob]

I think this topic has been exhausted, I know I am ....