Do Covid 19 masks work?

[Fester]

20 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Cases are not and never will be the measure of success. 

Deaths per capita is, as well as factoring in that they did not destroy their economy or peoples jobs in the process. 

That seems to be ignored by the geniuses who demand draconian measures. 

Cases are relevant in this context (masks).

You are ignoring anything that does not suit your wobbly agenda.

[Fester]

Just now, mcambl61 said:

Just how on earth people determine "mask wearing percentages" 

Using what methods? 

The fact that anyone, anywhere thinks they can measure this with any degree of reality is a joke. A poll? You have to be joking. 

Let's just cut to the chase, you think that people should be wearing masks as long as covid exists.

It will exist for decades. 

If you really want to know read this:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0249891#sec011

Decades? Your turn to provide evedence.

[longwood50]

15 minutes ago, Fester said:

Thanks for proving my point. Rhode Island, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, and Arkansas. also have some of the lowest mask-wearing percentages

No I did not make your point.  You said population 'DENSITY' was the factor.  Now all of a sudden its percentage of mask wearing.  

Ok I will challenge you.  If mask wearing is "so effective"  in Thailand at the beginning of the pandemic there were few cases, now all of a sudden there is an explosion of cases.  This is despite even more severe restrictions on wearing a mask, bars shutdown, restaurants shut down.  So if masks were so effective in preventing the virus early on, then why not now. 

Also, if mask wearing percentage was the contributing factor, not population density as you grasped for straws,  Why does the Netherlands and Luxenburg have a higher rate of Covid infection rate than Sweden where there is no mask mandate.  

 

[mcambl61]

3 minutes ago, Fester said:

If you really want to know read this:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0249891#sec011

Decades? Your turn to provide evedence.

Evidence for what? That you can't eliminate a virus? What planet are you on? 

 

As far as your resources, they were done last year. Not for the delta variant. 

 

 

Again, this is making assertions that think mask wearing is a direct correlation to cases. There is no legitimate data to show these two are inversely proportional or directly linked to one another. 

[Fester]

2 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

No I did not make your point.  You said population 'DENSITY' was the factor.  Now all of a sudden its percentage of mask wearing.  

Ok I will challenge you.  If mask wearing is "so effective"  in Thailand at the beginning of the pandemic there were few cases, now all of a sudden there is an explosion of cases.  This is despite even more severe restrictions on wearing a mask, bars shutdown, restaurants shut down.  So if masks were so effective in preventing the virus early on, then why not now. 

Also, if mask wearing percentage was the contributing factor, not population density as you grasped for straws,  Why does the Netherlands and Luxenburg have a higher rate of Covid infection rate than Sweden where there is no mask mandate.  

 

No I did not make your point.  You said population 'DENSITY' was the factor.  Now all of a sudden its percentage of mask wearing.  I said that it is A factor. There is no single factor.

Ok I will challenge you.  If mask wearing is "so effective"  in Thailand at the beginning of the pandemic there were few cases, now all of a sudden there is an explosion of cases.  This is despite even more severe restrictions on wearing a mask, bars shutdown, restaurants shut down.  So if masks were so effective in preventing the virus early on, then why not now. Restrictions here are actually less stringent than last year plus we did not have the delata variant last year.

Also, if mask wearing percentage was the contributing factor, not population density as you grasped for straws,  Why does the Netherlands and Luxenburg have a higher rate of Covid infection rate than Sweden where there is no mask mandate. Population density - no straws attached. There is no single factor.

[SnapDragon]

25 minutes ago, Fester said:

That took me 5 seconds. Behave.

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/373/bmj.n896/F1.medium.jpg

 

Year	Number of deaths	Population (Thousands)	Crude mortality rate (per 100,000 population)	mortality rate (per 100,000 population)
2020	608,002	59,829	1,016.20	1,043.50
2019	530,841	59,440	893.1	925
2018	541,589	59,116	916.1	965.4
2017	533,253	58,745	907.7	965.3
2016	525,048	58,381	899.3	966.9
2015	529,655	57,885	915	993.2
2014	501,424	57,409	873.4	953
2013	506,790	56,948	889.9	985.9
2012	499,331	56,568	882.7	987.4
2011	484,367	56,171	862.3	978.6
2010	493,242	55,692	885.7	1,017.10
2009	491,348	55,235	889.6	1,033.80
2008	509,090	54,842	928.3	1,091.90
2007	504,052	54,387	926.8	1,091.80
2006	502,599	53,951	931.6	1,104.30
2005	512,993	53,575	957.5	1,143.80
2004	514,250	53,152	967.5	1,163.00
2003	539,151	52,863	1,019.90	1,232.10
2002	535,356	52,602	1,017.70	1,231.30
2001	532,498	52,360	1,017.00	1,236.20
2000	537,877	52,140	1,031.60	1,266.40
1999	553,532	51,933	1,065.80	1,320.20
1998	553,435	51,720	1,070.10	1,327.20
1997	558,052	51,560	1,082.30	1,350.80
1996	563,007	51,410	1,095.10	1,372.50
1995	565,902	51,272	1,103.70	1,392.00
1994	551,780	51,116	1,079.50	1,374.90
1993	578,512	50,986	1,134.70	1,453.40
1992	558,313	50,876	1,097.40	1,415.00
1991	570,044	50,748	1,123.30	1,464.30
1990	564,846	50,561	1,117.20	1,462.60

 

[longwood50]

38 minutes ago, Fester said:

Sweden remains 18/200+ countries in terms of cases per million - how successful was that effort?

As has been said, there are lies, d((,ned lies then statistics.  

If Swedens No mask mandate was so awful it should be Number 1.  

Turning the question around.  If Swedens rate is 109,164 per million.  How successful were those mask mandates, quarantines and lockdowns in the Netherlands where the rate is 110,457, or Estonia at 103,041 or Lithuania at 107, 973.  Even Spain, Belgium, France, and Portugal are the ranked 23rd, 26th, 27th and 28th worst in the world.  

So if Sweden's no mask mandate was so horrible then why are those countries not much better and in the case of the Netherlands, even worse.  

Sorry, the numbers just don't stack up as masks doing much of anything.  If this was a test where various the medical community was studying the effectiveness of masks in preventing the spread of Covid the difference in rates would be in the margin of error or so negligible to say at best masks only minutely protected the population. 

[Fester]

10 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Evidence for what? That you can't eliminate a virus? What planet are you on? 

As far as your resources, they were done last year. Not for the delta variant. 

Again, this is making assertions that think mask wearing is a direct correlation to cases. There is no legitimate data to show these two are inversely proportional or directly linked to one another. 

If Covid follows the path of the Spanish flu then hopefully it will mutate into a less deadly flu soon.

The paper was published this year - now you mention the delta variant but the principle is the same.

For mask/covid transmission links, I think that you should expand your reading.  

[longwood50]

13 minutes ago, Fester said:

There is no single factor.

No you are correct,  19.5% of Sweden's male population is considered obese, while only 10% of Frances male population is considered obese.  Despite that Sweden had no mask mandate, no quarantines, no lockdowns, and its rate of Covid infection is only a small fraction higher than France.  Perhaps that difference is due to the greater obesity in Swedish men.  

Again, I started out saying the only evidence on the effectiveness of masks was purely anecdotal.  Sweden's is the only country without the mask mandate and yet its rate of Covid infection as mentioned is not materially higher than other European countries.  

I stand by my statement.  If masks were "so effective" in preventing the spread of Covid, then those countries and states in the USA with strong mask mandates, quarantines, lockdowns, curfews etc. would have DRAMATICALLY lower covid infection rates.  They don't 

I suggest that masks at best prevent few covid infections and at worst give people the false sense of security that somehow they are protected from contracting Covid and they are not. 

 

[Fester]

14 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

As has been said, there are lies, d((,ned lies then statistics.  

If Swedens No mask mandate was so awful it should be Number 1.  

Turning the question around.  If Swedens rate is 109,164 per million.  How successful were those mask mandates, quarantines and lockdowns in the Netherlands where the rate is 110,457, or Estonia at 103,041 or Lithuania at 107, 973.  Even Spain, Belgium, France, and Portugal are the ranked 23rd, 26th, 27th and 28th worst in the world.  

So if Sweden's no mask mandate was so horrible then why are those countries not much better and in the case of the Netherlands, even worse.  

Sorry, the numbers just don't stack up as masks doing much of anything.  If this was a test where various the medical community was studying the effectiveness of masks in preventing the spread of Covid the difference in rates would be in the margin of error or so negligible to say at best masks only minutely protected the population. 

pop density

[Fester]

1 minute ago, longwood50 said:

No you are correct,  19.5% of Sweden's male population is considered obese, while only 10% of Frances male population is considered obese.  Despite that Sweden had no mask mandate, no quarantines, no lockdowns, and its rate of Covid infection is only a small fraction higher than France.  Perhaps that difference is due to the greater obesity in Swedish men.  

Again, I started out saying the only evidence on the effectiveness of masks was purely anecdotal.  Sweden's is the only country without the mask mandate and yet its rate of Covid infection as mentioned is not materially higher than other European countries.  

I stand by my statement.  If masks were "so effective" in preventing the spread of Covid, then those countries and states in the USA with strong mask mandates, quarantines, lockdowns, curfews etc. would have DRAMATICALLY lower covid infection rates.  They don't 

I suggest that masks at best prevent few covid infections and at worst give people the false sense of security that somehow they are protected from contracting Covid and they are not. 

 

Obesity introduces higher risk from Covid but not increased risk of contracting it in the first place. Why even bring this up? 

[mcambl61]

50 minutes ago, Fester said:

If Covid follows the path of the Spanish flu then hopefully it will mutate into a less deadly flu soon.

The paper was published this year - now you mention the delta variant but the principle is the same.

For mask/covid transmission links, I think that you should expand your reading.  

It's a Corona virus, although modified by the Chinese. All Corona viruses mutate. It's not a matter of if. 

 

I suggest you expand your narrow path of thought and predetermined assertions. 

[Benroon]

2 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

Well, you seem to be quite triggered.

No significant difference does mean that it is not a viable deterrent. If you do not understand that, then obviously you are in favor of everyone else wearing masks to deal with your irrational fear so that you can feel better. 

Absolute garbage - you’re clutching at straws and making a real mess of it, it doesn’t mean that whatsoever. Perhaps English isn’t your first language so I’ll make allowances but ‘not significantly reduces’ means it reduces! (But not significantly) - did that make it any easier ? 

I wear a mask in public along with everyone else on the basis I’m not a petulant child! 
 

Congratulations on your first post without ‘virtue signalling’ in it

[Fester]

16 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

although modified by the Chinese. All C

 

21 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

It's a Corona virus, although modified by the Chinese. All Corona viruses mutate. It's not a matter of if. 

I suggest you expand your narrow path of thought and predetermined assertions. 

Rich.

[mcambl61]

14 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Absolute garbage - you’re clutching at straws and making a real mess of it, it doesn’t mean that whatsoever. Perhaps English isn’t your first language so I’ll make allowances but ‘not significantly reduces’ means it reduces! (But not significantly) - did that make it any easier ? 

I wear a mask in public along with everyone else on the basis I’m not a petulant child! 
 

Congratulations on your first post without ‘virtue signalling’ in it

So, wearing a mask does hardly anything to stop the spread of the virus. Which means all the irrational emotional outrage you have about others not wearing a mask is unfounded and silly. 

 

Good discussion. 

 

But you just couldn't help yourself to end it with yet another virtue signaling statement.

What a sad life you lead.

Edited August 14, 2021 by mcambl61

[Fester]

2 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

So, wearing a mask does hardly anything to stop the spread of the virus. Which means all the irrational emotional outrage you have about others not wearing a mask is unfounded and silly. 

Good discussion. 

But you just couldn't help yourself to end it with yet another virtue signaling statement.

What a sad life you lead. 

Looks like you have more pressing issues than covid.

[Benroon]

3 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

So, wearing a mask does hardly anything to stop the spread of the virus. Which means all the irrational emotional outrage you have about others not wearing a mask is unfounded and silly. 

Good discussion. 

But you just couldn't help yourself to end it with yet another virtue signaling statement.

What a sad life you lead.

You’ve done it again - so hardly anything means it’s doing something ?
If that saves a few lives isn’t that more valuable than placating a few hissy fits from the anti maskers ? 

Emotional outrage ?? Haha I’m not the one quoting people in a fit of pique that undermines my own conspiracy. But you often get the Cut&Paste brigade not reading their own articles properly. But how could I be ‘outraged’ when you’re keeping me amused? 

As for sad, yesterday I bought a Seadoo GTX300 (sadly I couldn’t get the black and orange as that’s only sold in the US but they did get me the Black&Grey) - if that’s going to make my life ‘sad’ perhaps I need to consider drugs ! Is that ‘virtue signalling’ ? 

[mcambl61]

10 hours ago, Benroon said:

You’ve done it again - so hardly anything means it’s doing something ?
If that saves a few lives isn’t that more valuable than placating a few hissy fits from the anti maskers ? 

Emotional outrage ?? Haha I’m not the one quoting people in a fit of pique that undermines my own conspiracy. But you often get the Cut&Paste brigade not reading their own articles properly. But how could I be ‘outraged’ when you’re keeping me amused? 

As for sad, yesterday I bought a Seadoo GTX300 (sadly I couldn’t get the black and orange as that’s only sold in the US but they did get me the Black&Grey) - if that’s going to make my life ‘sad’ perhaps I need to consider drugs ! Is that ‘virtue signalling’ ? 

So, you are a virtue signaling leftist that bought a new jet ski that thinks wearing a mask reduces the spread of covid and can't produce any controlled studies that masks reduced the spread. 

 

Cut and paste brigade? Did you have to use Google to come up with that? 

Hissy fit? What are you, twelve years old? 

But you keep living in fear sunshine, mommy is proud of your mindless compliance. 

[mcambl61]

13 hours ago, Fester said:

Looks like you have more pressing issues than covid.

Yes, I have to call out the virtue signaling lectures from the leftists keyboard warriors and pseudo intellectuals. 

[BigHewer]

Maybe I’m a bit reckless, but I don’t really consider the safety / medical aspect when I put a mask on.

It’s a lose-lose situation. Depending on whether you wear a mask or not, some of the folks around you think you’re a sheep, and all the rest think you’re an ignorant a**hole. It’s a tough choice. Sheep vs. A**hole. I’ll go for sheep.

Being a sheep ain’t so bad, except in some countries maybe.

Edited August 15, 2021 by BigHewer
omission

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

Maybe I’m a bit reckless, but I don’t really consider the safety / medical aspect when I put a mask on.

It’s lose-lose situation. Depending on whether you wear a mask or not, some of the folks around you think you’re a sheep, and all the rest think you’re an ignorant a**hole. It’s a tough choice. Sheep vs. A**hole. I’ll go for sheep.

Being a sheep ain’t so bad, except in some countries maybe.

The ONLY time I wear a mask is when going to the local super-market or entering a shop.  I am absolutely convinced of the total uselessness of mask-mandates, but I do not want to create even more stress in shop staff or customers that believe it will protect them and that's the only reason I put them on.   And I take off the damn thing the moment I leave the premises.

I have to admit that I live 'in the sticks' and not wearing a mask is very easy and actually the 'standard' in the small rural village where I am staying, and there is no asocial distancing either here.  In a crowded city that would be more difficult of course, because of social pressure even in outdoor situations.  I fully realize that I am blessed living in a place where time stood still and covid is something you only hear about on the village radio and on TV.

[BigHewer]

1 minute ago, BlueSphinx said:

I am absolutely convinced of the total uselessness of mask-mandates, but I do not want to create even more stress in shop staff or customers that believe it will protect them and that's the only reason I put them on.   And I take off the damn thing the moment I leave the premises.

Damn straight BlueSphinx, damn straight.

[Benroon]

54 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

So, you are a virtue signaling leftist that bought a new jet ski that thinks wearing a mask reduces the spread of covid and can't produce any controlled studies that masks reduced the spread. 

Cut and paste brigade? Did you have to use Google to come up with that? 

Hissy fit? What are you, twelve years old? 

But you keep living in fear sunshine, mommy is proud of your mindless compliance. 

Haha I think you need to calm down you are embarrassing yourself with non sensical rants! A classic sign you’ve lost the argument, not that you ever had one. 

I don’t need to produce another mask study because you’ve already done that for me remember ? Your author that you hastily cut and paste without reading it, said they do not significantly reduce the spread, so in effect they reduce it. So if one life is saved that’s good enough reason for me to wear it because my parents did a good job bringing me up to consider others. 

I believe the scientists as they are infinitely more smarter than you will ever be - I think that’s a good strategy. 

How could I use google to come up with Cut&Paste brigade ? Surely I would have had to search on ‘Cut&Paste’ brigade no ? Honestly chump this is like shooting fish in a barrel. 

So have a lie down and keep away from your keyboard, Its almost like you’re a petulant conspiracy theorist who realising they have lost the argument is heading towards apoplexy as you can’t get anyone normal to listen to your insane ramblings. 

Over to you but take some deep breaths first … I’m off to the beach to not be sad  

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

Yes, I have to call out the virtue signaling lectures from the leftists keyboard warriors and pseudo intellectuals. 

‘Pseudo intellectuals’ hahaha oh the irony! 

[BlueSphinx]

4 minutes ago, Benroon said:

...

Over to you but take some deep breaths first … I’m off to the beach to not be sad  

Don't forget to put on your mask when going for a swim!