News Forum - Russia’s FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms

[Fanta]

45 minutes ago, Vigo said:

When the Soviet Union dissolved and Eastern European countries were freed from Russian domination, the USA was one of the largest donors to the rebuilding and rejuvenation of civil society. There could not have been prosperity  without the institutions of democratic government and an independent judiciary. The USA worked closely with the EU

When the Soviet Union dissolved a largely debt free Russia assumed $100 billion of Soviet Era IMF debt in return for $7.5 billion of reserves and all assets. This and NATO “gifts” always come with a price. Ask any Halliburton shareholder.

https://www.elibrary.imf.org/downloadpdf/books/071/06039-9781589062078-en/ch07.pdf

[Smithydog]

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

And water is wet. For the third time. no-one denies a Russian bomb hit a school. At issue is the statement that it was a targeted strike. Don’t make me use upper case or things could get ugly  
Russia bad, Ukraine not so bad, USA hmmm…. 
ps: I also share your sentiments towards this war.

Actually the issue is I remind you is the comments made by the Russian Foreign Minister and the arms supply to Ukraine. 

Perhaps it is better if we all return to that topic and not these ancillary matters on which discussions seem now to have fallen to.

[vlad]

7 hours ago, JamesR said:

Of course the schools etc are being hit, who in their right mind would deny that?

This article is about whether schools or public schools are being deliberately targeted, the Western news says yes and the Russians say no, it is what I would expect.

There will be a bias of opinion and a bias of the 'facts' on both sides. 

The facts are there in film evidence there not using precision Ordinance there using Cluster Bombs, long-range missiles and more  Hypersonic Missiles there not targeting military installations.

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, JamesR said:

O's and 1's, that is like saying a successful book is made only out of letters and punctuation, no design, code, requirements specs etc,  you really should learn a skill instead of regurgitating information you come across while trawling the web.

Of course the pictures you look at and then claim as you own are not biased, this article is all about whether the Ruskies are deliberately targeting schools etc, that is where the bias will lay, we say they are and they say they are not.

And you are not getting those field intelligence reports, you have the same information to hand as the rest of us unless of course you are over there fighting the war instead of waging war on the rest of us from your village in the middle of nowhere. 

Have you ever seen the film "A Beautiful Mind", do you imagine your are a field intelligence officer, more like a filing clerk I think. 

You mention WW2 results, when did I mentioned WW2? Do you know that WW2 is over and this Ukraine invasion is not part of WW2? 

But you do make me laugh.

You absurdly said History is all bias & opinions. I listen to Western Defence Ministers/ Strategic Institutes/ Former NATO Generals who DO see the raw intelligence & process it expertly for the public  (and who APPEAR on media speaking Directly to us.).

Since you don’t reference these direct experts but no doubt listen to commentators & journalists ( I don’t) then we are are certainly NOT getting the same “ information” ……

Seen that movie. I don’t imagine I’m a spy ! toughest job in the world after SF….and “coding” of course

[oldschooler]

37 minutes ago, vlad said:

The facts are there in film evidence there not using precision Ordinance there using Cluster Bombs, long-range missiles and more  Hypersonic Missiles there not targeting military installations.

Yes, the fact that Russians are consistently destroying so many schools & hospitals in different locations leaves no reasonable doubt that this is a terror & degradememt strategy. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Actually the issue is I remind you is the comments made by the Russian Foreign Minister and the arms supply to Ukraine. 

Perhaps it is better if we all return to that topic and not these ancillary matters on which discussions seem now to have fallen to.

Clearly no doubt Russia has targeted and destroyed multiple hospitals & schools in different areas so NO DOUBT also from this Physical Evidence Alone that these events are Deliberate Strategy to Terrorize & Wreck Ukraine. 
Wow. Water really is Wet … and Arctic Cold !

[Fester]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

So you are just venting?  
You never answered the question I asked you about the initial statement that triggered this ”bombing babies” discussion. Was the school targeted?

Venting stuff is OK. Inventing stuff is not.

[Fester]

3 hours ago, CamPat said:

That duct - tape really works. Decades of US brainwashing obviously does the rest. The first thing the US did after the End of the Soviet Union is to send endless NGO and religious fanatics there. Most of them had the usual agenda and were later labeled "foreign agents". The US 'rebuilt" Japan after smashing 2 nuclear bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and made Japan a lap dog eversince. One Man had the Balls to tell the truth:

The Japan That Can Say No: Why Japan Will Be First Among Equals" (「NO」と言える日本, "No" to Ieru Nihon)^[1] is a 1989 essay originally co-authored by Shintaro Ishihara, the then Minister of Transport and leading LDP figure who would become governor of Tokyo (1999-2012); and Sony co-founder and chairman Akio Morita, in the climate of Japan's economic rise.

It was famous for its critical examination of United States business practices and its treatment of Japanese companies, known as "Japan bashing", and for advocating Japan's taking a more independent stance on many issues, from business to foreign affairs.^[2]

The title refers to the authors' vision—Ishihara's in particular—of a Japanese government that is more than a mere "yes man" and a client state to the United States. Many unauthorized translations were made and circulated in the United States. The authorized 1991 Simon & Schuster English translation by Frank Baldwin (out of print) did not include the essays by Morita.

South Korea, the other lap dog of the US has seen endless demonstration against the US but the facct that consequtive South Korean Governments were simply twisted or convinced after some US Armtwisting to stay in line with Uncle Sam. Every attempt for a Korean Peninsula reunification has been torpedoed by the US with it's massive military presence and provocative military invasion excercises for degades.

As far as the US contribution to a peacefull solution is concerned i beg to differ. Sending massive amounts of weapons to Ukraine will not win this war but indept future Ukrainian Govts. for decades to come. Nothing is for free in this world and the Germans and other EU States are just learning that lesson, too. Uncle Sam has launched a successfull proxy war against russia and is laughing all the way to the bank with the profits made from all these arms sales to EU and Nato states.

The Celebrity Circus of visiting westerners turning up in Ukraine to show the media of how much they are concerned would have been better off to support the starving people in Afghanistan, Irag, Somalia and hell ... the rest of the empoverished world. But that wouln't impress anyone on their personal CV.

So much for the back to topic proposal then.

[Fanta]

Russia has stepped up attacks on Odessa. The port is already blockaded.

“Russian forces pounded away at the vital port of Odesa, Ukrainian officials said Tuesday, as part of an apparent effort to disrupt supply lines and weapons shipments.”

https://abc7.com/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-steel-plant/11833907/ 

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

And water is wet. For the third time. no-one denies a Russian bomb hit a school. At issue is the statement that it was a targeted strike. Don’t make me use upper case or things could get ugly  
Russia bad, Ukraine not so bad, USA hmmm…. 
ps: I also share your sentiments towards this war.

Water is wet?

How can you be so casual over this? So you have gone from the "Lets wait for the results of an investigation" to "Was it deliberately targeted?".

You simply miss the entire point. Kids died there. Civilians. Same with other attacks like the theater which was clearly signed as having kids in it.

Why are you always excusing Czar Putin and his thugs? 

They clearly do not give a shit about kids or civilians. And you facilitate his actions.

[Rookiescot]

Well this starts to give us an insight into the "sources" some of the Czar Putin apologists on here read and believe.

China’s pro-Russia propaganda exposed by online activists | China | The Guardian

[DiJoDavO]

Probably a very unpopular opinion here, but Russia attacked Ukraine because they started to talk about nuclear weapons, which was the last drop in the bucket for Russia. 

Giving more weapons to Ukraine only makes Russia fight them more. And in the meanwhile the west is just watching from a distance and keep sending weapons. 

Russia will most likely stop as soon as the delivery of weapons will stop. 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Probably a very unpopular opinion here, but Russia attacked Ukraine because they started to talk about nuclear weapons, which was the last drop in the bucket for Russia. 

Giving more weapons to Ukraine only makes Russia fight them more. And in the meanwhile the west is just watching from a distance and keep sending weapons. 

Russia will most likely stop as soon as the delivery of weapons will stop. 

Evidence the Ukraine wanted nukes?

This would make little sense given they HAD nukes but gave them up in exchange for Russia giving assurances over it sovereignty. 

Look how that turned out. 

[DiJoDavO]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Evidence the Ukraine wanted nukes?

This would make little sense given they HAD nukes but gave them up in exchange for Russia giving assurances over it sovereignty. 

Look how that turned out. 

If you paid attention to the situation right before Russia invaded, you would have noticed. You can still use Google to check for yourself. 

Yesterday in Putin's speech it was noted once again if I remember it right. 

That was a red line that Russia clearly stated long before this all happened, and yet they tried it out. Literally a day after they mentioned it, Russia invaded them. 

[Rookiescot]

Just now, DiJoDavO said:

If you paid attention to the situation right before Russia invaded, you would have noticed. You can still use Google to check for yourself. 

Yesterday in Putin's speech it was noted once again if I remember it right. 

That was a red line that Russia clearly stated long before this all happened, and yet they tried it out. Literally a day after they mentioned it, Russia invaded them. 

No I dont need lies trooped out by Czar Putin apologists. I need cold hard facts.

So where is the evidence that the Ukraine wanted nukes? 

Provide links.

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No I dont need lies trooped out by Czar Putin apologists. I need cold hard facts.

So where is the evidence that the Ukraine wanted nukes? 

Provide links.

April 2021 - Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany.

“Either we are part of an alliance like NATO and also make our contribution to strengthen this Europe, or we have only one option; to rearm ourselves,” Germany’s DPA news agency quoted Melnyk as saying. “How else could we guarantee our defence?”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat

[Marble-eye]

6 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

If you paid attention to the situation right before Russia invaded, you would have noticed. You can still use Google to check for yourself. 

Yesterday in Putin's speech it was noted once again if I remember it right. 

That was a red line that Russia clearly stated long before this all happened, and yet they tried it out. Literally a day after they mentioned it, Russia invaded them. 

Well if Putin mentioned it in his speech it must be gospel, he doesn't lie now does he.

But if it's all the same to you when you make an incredulous statement it would be nice to see where you get your facts from.

[DiJoDavO]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No I dont need lies trooped out by Czar Putin apologists. I need cold hard facts.

So where is the evidence that the Ukraine wanted nukes? 

Provide links.

Dude, it was literally said by western media back then. I clearly remember reading the article. 

Don't be lazy, go look it up yourself instead of parroting what the news tells you. 

Blocking one point of view never brings anything good. Looking at both sides isn't wrong in any way, or are you scared to become 'hypnotized' or anything and go the wrong way? 

Blocking one side and have already an enemy without research of both sides and go full bias, will also never bring peace. 

It is possible to see 2 sides and make up your mind about it yourself, you know. But well, it's 2022. What can I say? 

Even the Pope is now called a conspiracy theorist for saying this situation escalated because the west was barking at Putin's door... Even the POPE (that guy that a lot of conspiracy theories are written about) 

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, Fanta said:

April 2021 - Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany.

“Either we are part of an alliance like NATO and also make our contribution to strengthen this Europe, or we have only one option; to rearm ourselves,” Germany’s DPA news agency quoted Melnyk as saying. “How else could we guarantee our defence?”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat

May seek? Even though the Ambassador did not mention nukes? 

[DiJoDavO]

3 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Well if Putin mentioned it in his speech it must be gospel, he doesn't lie now does he.

But if it's all the same to you when you make an incredulous statement it would be nice to see where you get your facts from.

I tried to look it up quick, but it's now like looking for a needle in a bunch of hay. Because most is now how Russia will use nuclear weapons. 

I remember it clearly that a day or a few days before Russia attacked, this was mentioned by Ukraine. They were looking into making them to take care of the Russian threat. Nothing serious, but... A red line from Russia. 

It's not just like source: trust me, bro. 

If it wasn't on some of the news websites that day, I wouldn't have mentioned it now. 

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Dude, it was literally said by western media back then. I clearly remember reading the article. 

Don't be lazy, go look it up yourself instead of parroting what the news tells you. 

Blocking one point of view never brings anything good. Looking at both sides isn't wrong in any way, or are you scared to become 'hypnotized' or anything and go the wrong way? 

Blocking one side and have already an enemy without research of both sides and go full bias, will also never bring peace. 

It is possible to see 2 sides and make up your mind about it yourself, you know. But well, it's 2022. What can I say? 

Even the Pope is now called a conspiracy theorist for saying this situation escalated because the west was barking at Putin's door... Even the POPE (that guy that a lot of conspiracy theories are written about) 

I am being lazy. You made a claim now back it up with evidence.

What you "remember" is asinine. 

[DiJoDavO]

22 minutes ago, Fanta said:

April 2021 - Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany.

“Either we are part of an alliance like NATO and also make our contribution to strengthen this Europe, or we have only one option; to rearm ourselves,” Germany’s DPA news agency quoted Melnyk as saying. “How else could we guarantee our defence?”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat

Ah there you go. But it's not the article I have read. They mentioned it day(s) before they have been invaded once again. 

[Marble-eye]

Just now, DiJoDavO said:

I tried to look it up quick, but it's now like looking for a needle in a bunch of hay. Because most is now how Russia will use nuclear weapons. 

I remember it clearly that a day or a few days before Russia attacked, this was mentioned by Ukraine. They were looking into making them to take care of the Russian threat. Nothing serious, but... A red line from Russia. 

It's not just like source: trust me, bro. 

If it wasn't on some of the news websites that day, I wouldn't have mentioned it now. 

Don't worry bro, if Putin said it that's good enough for me.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, DiJoDavO said:

I tried to look it up quick, but it's now like looking for a needle in a bunch of hay. Because most is now how Russia will use nuclear weapons. 

I remember it clearly that a day or a few days before Russia attacked, this was mentioned by Ukraine. They were looking into making them to take care of the Russian threat. Nothing serious, but... A red line from Russia. 

It's not just like source: trust me, bro. 

If it wasn't on some of the news websites that day, I wouldn't have mentioned it now. 

Trust you aye? You make an utterly baseless assertion but we should all "trust you".

You are peddling lies. Now either prove it or withdraw it. 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, DiJoDavO said:

Ah there you go. But it's not the article I have read. They mentioned it day(s) before they have been invaded once again. 

Where did the ambassador mention nukes?