News Forum - Russia’s FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

As people we can judge and condemn it. In the International Criminal Court it is a whole different story. Don’t kid yourself that Russia will even stand trial for any war crimes let alone be convicted. 

https://www.vox.com/23017838/international-criminal-court-icc-putin-war-crimes

We are not fully informed, as usual many commentators here have far more information and know the situation better than the rest of us and will make sure the 'baddies' are convicted.

As you and I seem to understand, wanting something to happen which in real life will never be possible to make happen are two different things. 

[Fester]

8 minutes ago, JamesR said:

So bored you have to reply. 

It was an example of how the media make things up, that applies to this war as well.

And yes, we were supposed to be living in fear as the BBC said we had been 'invaded' by dangerous 'travellers'.

All untrue. 

Unless of course you believe everything you read in the press. 

How many people died when the Russians invaded Crays Hill?

[Fanta]

Putin’s Victory Day speech

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/68366 

[Grumpish]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

The opinions we form are base based on what we are told by the news.

The "bad guy" is dependent on how things affect us, we are all biased.

I wonder what we would have done if the Russians had for decades slowly crept up to our borders as we "the West" have done to them.

As it is in our interest to defeat the Russians in this conflict then I agree we should do everything in our power to defeat them in our proxy war but I don't thing we are without fault. 

If you look at the Vietnam war most Westerners for the first few years believed the Americans to be the good guys even though it was them who attacked Vietnam without provocation.

The West hasn't been "creeping up" on Russia, it is just that with the collapse of the Soviet Union the borders got redrawn, and the former occupied territories that made up the Warsaw Pact and Baltic countries felt that they were safer throwing in their lot with NATO than they would have been if they had put their trust in Russia. With good reason as it has turned out.

[JamesR]

4 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

The West hasn't been "creeping up" on Russia, it is just that with the collapse of the Soviet Union the borders got redrawn, and the former occupied territories that made up the Warsaw Pact and Baltic countries felt that they were safer throwing in their lot with NATO than they would have been if they had put their trust in Russia. With good reason as it has turned out.

"....it is just that with the collapse of the Soviet Union the borders got redrawn..."

Which was over 30 years ago.

I doubt very much if the Russians will agree with you, they see it as us threatening them the closer we get. 

They have been stating it for a long time.

[Fester]

14 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Keep taking the tablets, one day they might work. I don't know what else to say as who mentioned the Russians?

Oh you did. 

Well the Russians are rather relevant and indeed first mentioned in the topic subject line, which you may recall reads Russia's FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms. 

Far more relevant than some obscure village in Essex where the only invasion suffered was the one by the Traveling Wiburys, who had no T72's to pull their trailers into the park.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

So bored you have to reply. 

It was an example of how the media make things up, that applies to this war as well.

And yes, we were supposed to be living in fear as the BBC said we had been 'invaded' by dangerous 'travellers'.

All untrue. 

Unless of course you believe everything you read in the press. 

Cease this media obsession and start thinking for yourself using reason, logic & scientific method to select best qualified information sources.
 

Study real history, politics & important issues. review what institutes & professors say not press or Twitter or your “right on” socialist fool friends.
 

And stop defending gypo - pikie outlaw scum. They ARE criminals and hate settled people. Like Palestinians, they are not your friends and would lie cheat steal kill you as soon as look at you. 

[astro]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Cease this media obsession and start thinking for yourself using reason, logic & scientific method to select best qualified information sources.
 

Study real history, politics & important issues. review what institutes & professors say not press or Twitter or your “right on” socialist fool friends.

So far, so good.

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

And stop defending gypo - pikie outlaw scum. They ARE criminals and hate settled people. Like Palestinians, they are not your friends and would lie cheat steal kill you as soon as look at you. 

But then... this diatribe.

Crickey, have you fallen on your face with your prejudices & assumptions!

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

"....it is just that with the collapse of the Soviet Union the borders got redrawn..."

Which was over 30 years ago.

I doubt very much if the Russians will agree with you, they see it as us threatening them the closer we get. 

They have been stating it for a long time.

Only Russian drones & apologists care what Russian nationalist fascists “see”. I understand the unfree Russian false perceptions,and so do NATO who used their simpleton medieval mindset to lure Putin into Ukraine….to bleed out. 

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, astro said:

So far, so good.

But then... this diatribe.

Crickey, have you fallen on your face with your prejudices & assumptions!

OP was naively defending Pikies, like you. I know these scum only too well and won’t have it; lived alongside these criminals in my early life. What do you know beyond your “All Cultures Are Equally Valuable” rubbish?

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

We are not fully informed, as usual many commentators here have far more information and know the situation better than the rest of us and will make sure the 'baddies' are convicted.

As you and I seem to understand, wanting something to happen which in real life will never be possible to make happen are two different things. 

Russian War Criminals will surely be convicted by the impartial ICC / ICJ in due course but will never serve their sentences….. as long as they stay in Russia ….who unsurprisingly as a lawless tyranny, does not recognize any courts it can’t control. … they can be seized outside Russia though….

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

So bored you have to reply. 

It was an example of how the media make things up, that applies to this war as well.

And yes, we were supposed to be living in fear as the BBC said we had been 'invaded' by dangerous 'travellers'.

All untrue. 

Unless of course you believe everything you read in the press. 

If not the “press” it’s “ commentators”. 
Never mind them ! Have you not got an  inquisitive rational mind of your own ?  Find reliable direct information sources! 

[vlad]

The School hit killing over 50+ Civilians was Bombed it was not struck by Missiles. Only specific targets like training Facilities, Weapons factory's Etc. What has Russia done? Bombarded cities using Missiles from a mile's away not knowing specific Targets hitting Hospitals Schools, Theatre's and any Civilian areas as seen in Mariupol and Bucha and other towns indiscriminately hit. So the members on here trying to sell us the old yes but the Ukrainian military was using populated areas. How stupid can some people think that when we see multiple Rocket systems fired into Ukraine that there not hitting Civilian buildings. As for War crimes, we can only remember the Nazi war crimes in Nuremberg ALL the top Nazis were in the Dock Hitler topped himself so he didn't face the Noose same as Himmler and Goering. Putin will end up the same and his top generals and Lavrov and Co will face the war crimes commission. Name's have already started to be taken and the Russian Invaders that have been Raping, Murdering, and thieving are named in person with photo's as well as the higher-ranking officers who ordered them in. 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Well the Russians are rather relevant and indeed first mentioned in the topic subject line, which you may recall reads Russia's FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms. 

Far more relevant than some obscure village in Essex where the only invasion suffered was the one by the Traveling Wiburys, who had no T72's to pull their trailers into the park.

I am not going to waste my time arguing nonsense. 

[Poolie]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

So bored you have to reply. 

It was an example of how the media make things up, that applies to this war as well.

And yes, we were supposed to be living in fear as the BBC said we had been 'invaded' by dangerous 'travellers'.

All untrue. 

Unless of course you believe everything you read in the press. 

Some do, incredibly.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

I doubt very much if the Russians will agree with you, they see it as us threatening them the closer we get. 

They have been stating it for a long time.

Meaningless. Russian's have been feeling threaten for as long as they have existed. 

“I have no way to defend my borders but to extend them.” ― Catherine the Great 

The USSR expanded it's borders all the way into Germany and still felt threatened every day. It's part of the Russian ethos. No doubt coming from the fact they have been invaded some three dozen or more times in their history and from every direction too boot. 

I'm not saying Russia doesn't have an axe to grind, but fact is Ukraine wasn't joining NATO. The idea Russia needed to invade or felt threated by that prospect is a red herring. Whether you believe as I do that the invasion of Ukraine is nothing more than a step on a ladder that started in Georgia and ends half way into Poland. Or you believe Ukraine is the target, whether for strategic depth or just plain greed on Russia's part. The fact remains Russia's actions are still not justified. It doesn't help that Russia's offered a half dozen excuses for attacking, all of them different in motive. 

Putin told thousands of troops gathered in Moscow's Red Square that Russian forces in Ukraine were continuing the battle against Nazism, but that it was important "to do everything so that the horror of a global war does not happen again."

President Vladimir Putin said Monday that Russian forces in Ukraine were defending the Motherland from an "absolutely unacceptable threat," as he opened the annual parade marking victory over Nazi Germany in World War II. (msn.com)

His latest excuse is the need to protect the world from a Nazi inspired war. Ironic when you think about it.  

 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Cease this media obsession and start thinking for yourself using reason, logic & scientific method to select best qualified information sources.
 

Study real history, politics & important issues. review what institutes & professors say not press or Twitter or your “right on” socialist fool friends.
 

And stop defending gypo - pikie outlaw scum. They ARE criminals and hate settled people. Like Palestinians, they are not your friends and would lie cheat steal kill you as soon as look at you. 

It is so funny, you go off at irrelevant rants so many times.

Paragraph A, that is not possible as the only info re this war is the news unless of course they have use of your crystal ball, there are no qualified informed sources at the moment only biased opinions.

Paragraph 2, I have never used Twitter but you seem to know how to use it.

Defending Pikeys, what have you been drinking today? My point was the fact the BBC were saying we the residents were living in fear but we were not as there were no pikeys in our area, my point was the BBC making things up, as they are probably doing with this war.

"Study real history"...... I remember doing my 'O' level in History back in the 1970's , what a boring noddy subject, I did the whole course myself in a week and I passed the 'O' level exam, not exactly the most difficult subject in the world compared to maths, physics, software engineering etc, all you need it a bit of time to read up on the subject.

When I was at Oxford I met two students in the union bar, they were studying history, they said they see their tutor for one hour a week, he points out the books and area they should look at and that was that, they were surprised when I told them I have twenty hours of lectures and practicals sessions a week doing software engineering. 

[JamesR]

34 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Meaningless. Russian's have been feeling threaten for as long as they have existed. 

“I have no way to defend my borders but to extend them.” ― Catherine the Great 

The USSR expanded it's borders all the way into Germany and still felt threatened every day. It's part of the Russian ethos. No doubt coming from the fact they have been invaded some three dozen or more times in their history and from every direction too boot. 

I'm not saying Russia doesn't have an axe to grind, but fact is Ukraine wasn't joining NATO. The idea Russia needed to invade or felt threated by that prospect is a red herring. Whether you believe as I do that the invasion of Ukraine is nothing more than a step on a ladder that started in Georgia and ends half way into Poland. Or you believe Ukraine is the target, whether for strategic depth or just plain greed on Russia's part. The fact remains Russia's actions are still not justified. It doesn't help that Russia's offered a half dozen excuses for attacking, all of them different in motive. 

Putin told thousands of troops gathered in Moscow's Red Square that Russian forces in Ukraine were continuing the battle against Nazism, but that it was important "to do everything so that the horror of a global war does not happen again."

President Vladimir Putin said Monday that Russian forces in Ukraine were defending the Motherland from an "absolutely unacceptable threat," as he opened the annual parade marking victory over Nazi Germany in World War II. (msn.com)

His latest excuse is the need to protect the world from a Nazi inspired war. Ironic when you think about it.  

".....but fact is Ukraine wasn't joining NATO..."

But they were trying to, and in the future it was a possibility at the time they would join.

You push a rat into a corner and at some point it will fight back.

 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, astro said:

So far, so good.

But then... this diatribe.

Crickey, have you fallen on your face with your prejudices & assumptions!

It is typical but I think it is funny  as I was not claiming to be defending anyone, my statement was about the fact the BBC make some news up.

[Alavan]

45 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

His latest excuse is the need to protect the world from a Nazi inspired war. Ironic when you think about it. 

Even more if you know he befriended extreme right nazi supporters in Western Europe and sent them money.

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

OP was naively defending Pikies, like you. I know these scum only too well and won’t have it; lived alongside these criminals in my early life. What do you know beyond your “All Cultures Are Equally Valuable” rubbish?

I don't see anyone on this site defending pikeys but you accused me of doing that for some reason, I don't think you need to study history, you need to study the here and now. 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Russian War Criminals will surely be convicted by the impartial ICC / ICJ in due course but will never serve their sentences….. as long as they stay in Russia ….who unsurprisingly as a lawless tyranny, does not recognize any courts it can’t control. … they can be seized outside Russia though….

Stating the obvious again, you think your are being insightful and brag of being well informed etc, we just see it as the blee-din obvious. 

Special skill set necessary?

Yes, the ability to see the blee-din obvious. 

[EdwardV]

2 minutes ago, JamesR said:

".....but fact is Ukraine wasn't joining NATO..."

But they were trying to, and in the future it was a possibility at the time they would join.

You push a rat into a corner and at some point it will fight back.

The fact they were trying to, or even just wanted to is meaningless. Reminds me of the old super model joke: just because you want to date one ... 

NATO bylaws don't allow a country to join who is involved in conflict. As long as Russia remained in Crimea, and they were never leaving, Ukraine was precluded from joining NATO. The key was in possession of Russia, but everyone acts like Ukraine had it in their pocket. That's not even counting the fact Germany was against the idea, at least 2-3 more NATO countries had cooled on it, and even the US had stopped being a fan as far back as the Obama administration. Russia knew all of this and has for a long time, there was no corner. 

The problem Russia has now is their back up plan, to concentrate in Donbas appears to be stalling. On top of that all the threats and outrage over the West supporting Ukraine seem to have backfired. They went from half hearted support to something much stronger. Still no tanks from Germany, but just about everything else. Much of the heavy weapons still haven't reached the front lines. Russia needs to change the dynamic or what is happening to them up around Kharkiv will start happening down south toward Kherson.  

 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

If not the “press” it’s “ commentators”. 
Never mind them ! Have you not got an  inquisitive rational mind of your own ?  Find reliable direct information sources! 

I have indeed one of those minds which I use every day designing software, I do take a break now and then to look at noddy subjects like history or the current news etc, I don't need and inquisitive mind for those subjects.

History and the current news as we all know is mostly personal opinion anyway based on ones particular bias.

"....reliable direct informations sources", are subject to the same bias.

 

[JamesR]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The fact they were trying to, or even just wanted to is meaningless. Reminds me of the old super model joke: just because you want to date one ... 

NATO bylaws don't allow a country to join who is involved in conflict. As long as Russia remained in Crimea, and they were never leaving, Ukraine was precluded from joining NATO. The key was in possession of Russia, but everyone acts like Ukraine had it in their pocket. That's not even counting the fact Germany was against the idea, at least 2-3 more NATO countries had cooled on it, and even the US had stopped being a fan as far back as the Obama administration. Russia knew all of this and has for a long time, there was no corner. 

The problem Russia has now is their back up plan, to concentrate in Donbas appears to be stalling. On top of that all the threats and outrage over the West supporting Ukraine seem to have backfired. They went from half hearted support to something much stronger. Still no tanks from Germany, but just about everything else. Much of the heavy weapons still haven't reached the front lines. Russia needs to change the dynamic or what is happening to them up around Kharkiv will start happening down south toward Kherson.  

That is one scenario, there are many.