News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[EdwardV]

47 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Just responding to the last paragraph, The tie in is the sales and export of arms, the more conflict the more sales, just my uneducated basic point of view.

The sales that will come out of this war will be huge. Pretty much across the board, but mostly in Europe. However a lot of that will come from the fact Europe has underinvested in weapons ever since the end of the Soviet Union. Some of the militaries in Europe are a shell of their former self, it's that bad (looking at you Germany). The war just pointed that out to them like a sandbag to to the head. 

Even so, shouldn't the blame (for lack of a better term) be laid at the feet of Russia? Had they not attacked Ukraine, Europe would be blissfully under spending for years to come.  

[KRLMRX]

22 hours ago, Fester said:

 And you do not understand. Putin and NATO? No comparison.  

Whatever Putin "considers" it cannot justify this murderous invasion of Ukraine.

You see how much depends on the angle of view. this is called dialectics - the struggle of contradictions, this is the basis of the modern system of social relations.

[KRLMRX]

21 hours ago, EdwardV said:

You do understand just how wrong this is right? I get Putin might believe this, and some nationalists but no one outside of Russia would. 

is it wrong to justify a military invasion by the experience of numerous military bloc invasions?

I think they are two sides of the same shit.

[Thaidup]

4 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Europe would be blissfully under spending for years to come.

Maybe a constripted army of under 25 YO single males that are on welfare may help.

[EdwardV]

1 minute ago, KRLMRX said:

is it wrong to justify a military invasion by the experience of numerous military bloc invasions?

I think they are two sides of the same shit.

Isn't it wrong to justify any military invasion? 

[Thaidup]

49 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh right so once again your whataboutery fails.

You may feel happy about the war, I for one am not, regardless of who started it, why can't they sit down and talk about putting an end to it?

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Isn't it wrong to justify any military invasion? 

Tell that to the Americans; 

It certainly is wrong though regardless of who is invading who

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Grumpish said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev#:~:text=In June 2019%2C at the,federal government of the United

It is also very common for occupied or colonised countries to change place names to an older or alternate form once the have achieved independence. Their prerogative.

this is Wikipedia, whose articles are written by the government of Ukraine.

via your link: until recently Kiev (/ˈkiːɛv/, KEE-ev, from Russian: Kyiv)

KyivNotKiev is an online campaign started by the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) together with the 15 member center for strategic communications "StratCom Ukraine" on 2 October 2018.

Where are the written sources before 2018 that say Kyiv?

[EdwardV]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Tell that to the Americans; 

It certainly is wrong though regardless of who is invading who

Pretty sure the American's didn't invade Ukraine. The village of Novotoshkivka from yesterday. 

 

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh this is good stuff here. The amount of projection going on is astonishing.

Look the name is Kyiv. Get used to it. I know you want it to be Kiev because thats what it was called while under Russian control but thats not the case any more.

of course you can change the title on paper. but the townspeople will call the city as before, as long as the people of Kiev live in it, and this is exactly what is happening now. Alas.

[EdwardV]

17 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

You may feel happy about the war, I for one am not, regardless of who started it, why can't they sit down and talk about putting an end to it?

What are you suppose to do when one sides refuses? 

Russian President Vladimir Putin is no longer interested in negotiating with Ukraine and just wants to seize as much territory as possible, the Financial Times reported.

Putin is no longer interested in negotiating with Ukraine and just wants to seize as much territory as possible instead, report says (yahoo.com)

It's nice to pretend otherwise, but sometimes reality is a bitch. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Pretty sure the American's didn't invade Ukraine. The village of Novotoshkivka from yesterday. 

I was joking due to America's past of invading countries that have nothing to do with them

Don't take everything so serious

[KRLMRX]

33 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Isn't it wrong to justify any military invasion? 

of course yes

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh this is good stuff here. The amount of projection going on is astonishing.

Look the name is Kyiv. Get used to it. I know you want it to be Kiev because thats what it was called while under Russian control but thats not the case any more.

of course you can change the title on paper. but the townspeople will call the city as before, as long as the people of Kiev live in it, and this is exactly what is happening now. Alas.

[KRLMRX]

39 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Isn't it wrong to justify any military invasion? 

of course yes.

but in the current system, invasions are mandatory and unavoidable

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh this is good stuff here. The amount of projection going on is astonishing.

Look the name is Kyiv. Get used to it. I know you want it to be Kiev because thats what it was called while under Russian control but thats not the case any more.

of course you can change the title on paper. but the townspeople will call the city as before, as long as the people of Kiev live in it, and this is exactly what is happening now. Alas.

[EdwardV]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was joking due to America's past of invading countries that have nothing to do with them

When you are the policeman of the world, everything has to do with you. Don't worry too much, America has been trying to get out of that business for a couple of decades now. Had Russia not decided to go rogue once again, the US might have finished the process.  

“Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in.”

[EdwardV]

5 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

but in the current system, invasions are mandatory and unavoidable

Ukraine would argue otherwise. I'm thinking when this war is done, Russia might have changed it's opinion too: 

On Monday, U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said that the U.S. wanted to see Russia so "weakened" that it won't be able to support another war like the one it initiated in Ukraine. Now, analysts suggest Moscow might have already reached that point. In an article published on Wednesday, analysts told The Times they believe Russia already burned through so much of its military strength in the past two months of war that it could be "years" before the Kremlin is able to order another such invasion of a neighboring country.

Russia Unable to Fight Another War After Catastrophic Military Losses (msn.com)

Those estimate are based on now, give it another month or two (who knows when Putin will finally give up), and Russia might never be able to rebuilt it's army. Either from the lack of money, or manpower, pick your choice they are both valid. 

 

[KRLMRX]

31 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Pretty sure the American's didn't invade Ukraine. The village of Novotoshkivka from yesterday. 

This is Donetsk in 2014

 

https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/08/140810_ua_donetsk_strikes.amp

 

[EdwardV]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

This is Donetsk in 2014

https://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2014/08/140810_ua_donetsk_strikes.amp

I'm guessing that's what happens when armed men show up dressed in Russian style uniforms, carrying Russian weapons, and answering to people in Russia to ferment a civil war. 

[KRLMRX]

46 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Ukraine would argue otherwise. I'm thinking when this war is done, Russia might have changed it's opinion too: 

On Monday, U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said that the U.S. wanted to see Russia so "weakened" that it won't be able to support another war like the one it initiated in Ukraine. Now, analysts suggest Moscow might have already reached that point. In an article published on Wednesday, analysts told The Times they believe Russia already burned through so much of its military strength in the past two months of war that it could be "years" before the Kremlin is able to order another such invasion of a neighboring country.

Russia Unable to Fight Another War After Catastrophic Military Losses (msn.com)

Those estimate are based on now, give it another month or two (who knows when Putin will finally give up), and Russia might never be able to rebuilt it's army. Either from the lack of money, or manpower, pick your choice they are both valid. 

in our wonderful world, not only Russia is invading. this is a universal phenomenon. Russia will not invade, China will do it, China will not be able to, India will do it, and so on. Well, you always have the USA in your pocket, which will definitely not let you down.

Invasions will disappear with the disappearance of private ownership of the means of production, when the mechanism for the appropriation of profits by private, very specific individuals will disappear.

[Dmitrii]

2 hours ago, Noble_Design said:

Just in guys: Russia halts gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria

https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-bulgaria-face-russian-gas-cut-ukraine-crisis-escalates-2022-04-26/

Unfortunately, Europe depends on Russian oil and gas too much to stop buying it in the nearest future.

Good news is that it does not really need to stop buying it in order to deter Russian militaristic plans.

The rest of sanctions (embargo on exporting to Russia of a number of equipment, materials , and components needed for Russian industries) is enough to push Russia back 30 years in sense of technologies including military technologies.

Even now we see that Russian battle tanks and aircrafts while numerous are significantly outdated. The situation will progress in the same direction and in 10 years Russian economy (and army) will become weak enough to make Russia peaceful again.

The rule is simple: do not feed authoritarian countries too much, they become vile and aggressive when they feel themselves mighty. Keep them slim and a little hungry - it keeps them modest and peaceful.

Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy way to stop Russia's militaristic aggression without blowing our planet in a Nuclear War. The leaders of democratic countries should be prepared for the long process of the gradual isolation of the Russian economy and strangling Russia economically. It will take years but it is the only real way to stop Mordor.

[KRLMRX]

29 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I'm guessing that's what happens when armed men show up dressed in Russian style uniforms, carrying Russian weapons, and answering to people in Russia to ferment a civil war. 

that is, in this case, it is possible to destroy cities?  

Like I said, it all depends on which direction you're looking from.  

Try to stay equidistant from all sides and you will see other colors of this world, not just black and white.

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Invasions will disappear with the disappearance of private ownership of the means of production, when the mechanism for the appropriation of profits by private, very specific individuals will disappear.

That was already tried, it failed. 

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

that is, in this case, it is possible to destroy cities?

It is when they bring Russian artillery and tanks with them (whoever they were), and start a civil war. Those things have a tendency to kill people and destroy things.  

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, Thaidup said:

You sure about that?

One incident. Show me one where the west targeted something like a railway station full of women and kids.

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, Thaidup said:

You may feel happy about the war, I for one am not, regardless of who started it, why can't they sit down and talk about putting an end to it?

Because you cant negotiate with a total liar like Czar Putin. Also what appeasements do you think the Ukraine should give to get him to stop?