News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[Stardust]

26 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Supersize it with even more of that wholesome goodness you’ve been told to love! The new freedom meal comes with a side dish of Nasty NATO Nuggets, the same delicious burger with double the perceived persecution patties, lashings of patriot potato fries with free vodka refills. Available nationwide for the low, low price of every able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 50. For a short time only. And you will eat every last morsel. We guarantee it! 

So you advertise and prefer dictatorship, tyrany , massacres, abuse children, rape women. Let them do whatever they want. Let them make a genocide bomb the world into the ground etc etc

Sick gymnastics and what aboutism. Sitting behind the computer doing nothing what helps but advertising better do nothing and let them abuse the civillians and apologize all warcrimes and crimes fro Putin.

The world can watch now the characteristics of the Putin apologists.

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Again the twist? It is exactly why Russia should not get away with ! Nor others !  The tactic of screaming "Look over there" as a distraction from the greater ugly picture is often viciously dishonest even by the presumed "good guys"!

Whatever justification Putin expressed for his Incursion , rightly or wrongly, does not include grounds for atrocities by either side in the conflict !  Sadly there are those that would argue retaliatory atrocity by reason of self defense is justifiable.

The inclusion of mercenary combatants increases the potential for gross abuses. 

Another sick gymnastic, you guys not even realize when you are standing naked in front of the podium. So you mean with your gymnastics they should let Hitler kill more people and bomb the world into the ground because not to let him do increases the potential for gross abuses?!! How sick is that?! I suggest a mirror!

[Politenessman]

19 hours ago, Fanta said:

Doesn’t matter if they are injured or killed. It is still a war crime to put non combatants between yourself and the enemy as human shields. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_(law)

I did state that, I just emphasised that the crime is committed by the Russians, not the people who fired.

[Convert54]

16 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Another sick gymnastic, you guys not even realize when you are standing naked in front of the podium. So you mean with your gymnastics they should let Hitler kill more people and bomb the world into the ground because not to let him do increases the potential for gross abuses?!! How sick is that?! I suggest a mirror!

You continuously fall over your feet in the haste to seem knowledgeable. Gymnastics? If you were to take a more rational look at  what I am suggesting you just might realize it is nothing to do with your clumsy comprehension! Nor does it or do I support Putin's war !

[EdwardV]

The horrific scene left behind by the Russian army will not go without response as in the past. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/04/massacre-of-innocents-how-the-papers-covered-russias-atrocities-in-bucha

Expect a lot more sanctions and heavier weapon deliveries. Besides the already mention of anti aircraft weapons. yesterday the west stated they were going to deliver T-72 tanks, armored fighting vehicles and heavy artillery. Now that Putin has ruled out the use of nuclear weapons over Ukraine, expect even the Mig29s to come back into play. 

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Convert54 said:

You continuously fall over your feet in the haste to seem knowledgeable. Gymnastics? If you were to take a more rational look at  what I am suggesting you just might realize it is nothing to do with your clumsy comprehension! Nor does it or do I support Putin's war !

Sure it is gymnastics and a try to apoligize everything and let them do what ever they want. There is zero doubt about it and your intention. Now you try another gymnastic over your gymnastics. Like another who even claimed this is all staged. As I said you guys even realize when you are standing naked on the podium!

Just one street where they shoot on civillians with a tank

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

Sure the whole war is staged. But not even realizing how sick this gymnastics are is really another level and says a lot about you guys.

[Convert54]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Sure it is gymnastics and a try to apoligize everything and let them do what ever they want. There is zero doubt about it and your intention. Now you try another gymnastic over your gymnastics. Like another who even claimed this is all staged. As I said you guys even realize when you are standing naked on the podium!

Just one street where they shoot on civillians with a tank

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

Sure the whole war is staged. But not even realizing how sick this gymnastics are is really another level and says a lot about you guys.

Your apoplectic state seems to have rendered you hysterical.

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Your apoplectic state seems to have rendered you hysterical.

Your gymnastics say what about your mindset! You still not realize it and making one brain gymnastic over another. But necer get any point on the point! And then not realizing when you are naked and standing on the podium!

[Smithydog]

The horrific sights being seen in Bucha deserve recognition. But once again they are being treated more as a toy between the warring parties. If Ukraine or the western nations accuse the Russians, then the Russians will call it contrived and made up. If Russia accuses Ukraine, then the same response is given by Ukraine and the west.

There is a clear point from this. People are dead in areas like Bucha from the effects of war. Men, women and children. Civilians trying just to live their lives. Military personnel from both Russia and Ukraine, dead. Countless building destroyed and an immeasurable number of lives changed for ever, physically, emotionally, financially and mentally. 

And all because the Russian President decided on his own that action of such a forceful nature needed to be taken. That is the war crime. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

So you advertise and prefer dictatorship, tyrany , massacres, abuse children, rape women. Let them do whatever they want. Let them make a genocide bomb the world into the ground etc etc

Sick gymnastics and what aboutism. Sitting behind the computer doing nothing what helps but advertising better do nothing and let them abuse the civillians and apologize all warcrimes and crimes fro Putin.

The world can watch now the characteristics of the Putin apologists.

Your happy meal comes with a complimentary, mandatory muzzle so your disturbed outbursts don’t scare away the dine in patrons. Prozac entree force fed upon request by any other diner. 

[Stardust]

Just now, Fanta said:

Your happy meal comes with a complimentary, mandatory muzzle so your disturbed outbursts don’t scare away the dine in patrons. Prozac entree force fed upon request by any other diner. 

Wow what a gymnastic to apoligize what actually happen and advertize to let them do what ever they want. But says the world a lot about the mindset of the apologists!

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

Wow what a gymnastic to apoligize what actually happen and advertize to let them do what ever they want. But says the world a lot about the mindset of the apologists!

“Mental clean up, aisle 3. We have a squirter! “ 

Chill out dude before your head explodes. You’re accusing people of supporting Putin’s war and justifying atrocities whenever they question the message sent by the Western media and put forward alternate points of view. That’s not how a discussion works. Debate the points, don’t attack the person. Calm yourself, take a deep breath and shake it off. Chill. 

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

“Mental clean up, aisle 3. We have a squirter! “ 

Chill out dude before your head explodes. You’re accusing people of supporting Putin’s war and justifying atrocities whenever they question the message sent by the Western media and put forward alternate points of view. That’s not how a discussion works. Debate the points, don’t attack the person. Calm yourself, take a deep breath and shake it off. Chill. 

I only see you freaking out and making one stunt after another and weird brain gymnastics. Sure the war is staged by the wesyern media, just another stunt and sick brain gymnastics. Already old, nothing new?

[Stardust]

40 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I only see you freaking out and making one stunt after another and weird brain gymnastics. Sure the war is staged by the wesyern media, just another stunt and sick brain gymnastics. Already old, nothing new?

Murderers, Rapists, Torturers, Looters

Putins culture

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/apr/03/russia-ukraine-war-latest-russian-retreat-from-kyiv-reveals-atrocities-against-civilians-say-ukrainians-live

 

[Stardust]

Thus really shows what kind of animals the russian army are and the culture of the Putun supporters

Rapists and low life criminals

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/03/all-wars-are-like-this-used-as-a-weapon-of-war-in-ukraine

 

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Thus really shows what kind of animals the russian army are and the culture of the Putun supporters

Rapists and low life criminals

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/03/all-wars-are-like-this-used-as-a-weapon-of-war-in-ukraine

From your own link

”It is not only Russian soldiers Ukrainian women may have to protect themselves from. In Vinnytsia, a town in the west of the country, a teacher reported to police that a member of the territorial defence services dragged her into the school library and tried to rape her. The man was arrested.”

Rape has been used as a weapon of war and subjugation since time began. It is inexcusable, happens all too often in peace time and in war time and absolutely no-one condones it. There can never be any justification for any attacks aimed explicitly at the defenseless. Calling it “shock and awe”, calling it collateral damage, calling it revenge etc makes no difference. No-one here support these barbarous acts.

We were discussing peace talks? imo, Putin will never meet Zelenskyy face to face for security reasons. The idea that Putin is the only powerful Russian supporting this war is naive at best. That said “taking out Putin” must be unspoken #1 priority for Ukraine and their allies. Or perhaps they know the recognize the dangers of creating martyrs? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russia–Ukraine_peace_negotiations

[Faz]

Just reposting and repeating the last message posted by a moderator as some members are reverting to personal disparaging bickering comments about each other, rather than focusing on the topic.

Quote

 

Members,

Passionately defending your position in a debate is one thing. But those passions are creeping a bit too high. Let's tone it down and focus on the topic please.

All of us have viewpoints and as long as they are civilly presented and discussed, it is ok to share. It is equally fine for others to rebut the points raised but also in a civil manner.

I would prefer not to have to start removing posts simply because people are getting a bit carried away. 

Settle Down.

Thanks

Moderator

 

Some forum guidelines to take note of:

 

The forum values and welcomes differing opinions within our Guidelines. So, it is likely you will come across opinions you do not agree with! It is fine to disagree with and challenge opinions, ideas, and facts. Attacking another member because their opinion differs, is not.

Respect that each member is entitled to make personal decisions for themselves, and to have them respected, even if you think they are “driving the train to Loonyville”!

Further off topic personal disparaging comments will be removed.

Moderator.

 

 

 

 

[Vigo]

The grim photos and documentation of non combatant deaths (and perhaps murders) of the past few days combined with the the documented sexual assaults, use of non combatants as shields, and specific targeting of civilian and non combatant areas presents a convincing  case of war crimes and crimes against humanity.  Russia has a lot to answer for and this will not go away even if Putin resigns. The vast majority of Russians support the invasion. Whatever their reason(s) may be, the Russian population is oblivious to the suffering of the Ukraine.  Millions of Russians have access to real time reports, so the excuse of media control is an excuse to avoid collective responsibility. Russians outside of  Russia know what is going on. They speak with their friends and family so the invasion and the  horrors is not a secret.

The west has done alot to slow down the Russians, but  much of the world is either silent or complicit.  India is going to purchase Russian oil. Much of Africa which receives generous western foreign aid  has said little. Pakistan actively supports Russia.  It's time these countries take responsibility for fulfilling  their obligation to stop a needless war and  ethnic cleansing. They love Russia so much, ok, good,  let Russia send them the foreign aid. tax the transfer of monies going from western countries to those countries which refuse to condemn Russia.

On 4/1/2022 at 10:22 AM, Transam said:

Your stance is surrender, once again you forget 1939. What happened AFTER the assault on Poland, do you remember, no, then I will tell you, Mr.Hitler stood on the shores of France wondering how to cross that moat...

This time round, NATO has saved the day and Putin has learned a tough lesson, but even if Ukraine fails in its freedom bid, the Russians will step back and think again about bullying with the threat of the big bang.

I don't think things will be the same for Russians after this fiasco on the world stage, I feel sorry for them, having a leader stuck in the last century.... 

I don't believe NATO saved the day. Some NATO countries  talked a lot of hot air and contributed little. Portugal, Italy, Belgium, France and Canada have been all talk with little effective concrete action. How about some countries saved the day, like Poland which has taken in most of the refugees, and the UK which supported the Poles in the push to provide military hardware. The Turkish drones were more effective than much of NATO.  The UK has done much of the pushing and influencing here.

On 4/2/2022 at 1:03 PM, Fester said:

How soon we forget that we are discussing an invasion today! An invasion that is different because it was unprovoked by initial Ukrainian military action in another country. Adult behaviour was required of Putin, who started this. I don't think that Zelensky is trying to be a hero but he knows, like millions of his fighting countrymen, if they don't fight now then there probably won't be another chance.

Vercingetorix surrendered himself to the Romans only to receive a complementary strangling 5 years later. His soldiers were killed or enslaved and Gaul was occupied by the Romans for 500 years after that. Maybe Zelensky read the whole story and didn't skip the scary bits? 

The Ukraine did provoke the Russians. Keep in mind that the Ukraine actively discriminated against ethnic Russians. I am not saying this justifies an invasion or atrocities, but some of the Ukrainians, especially in the region bordering with Russia were nasty. 

[Stardust]

46 minutes ago, Fanta said:

From your own link

”It is not only Russian soldiers Ukrainian women may have to protect themselves from. In Vinnytsia, a town in the west of the country, a teacher reported to police that a member of the territorial defence services dragged her into the school library and tried to rape her. The man was arrested.”

Rape has been used as a weapon of war and subjugation since time began. It is inexcusable, happens all too often in peace time and in war time and absolutely no-one condones it. There can never be any justification for any attacks aimed explicitly at the defenseless. Calling it “shock and awe”, calling it collateral damage, calling it revenge etc makes no difference. No-one here support these barbarous acts.

We were discussing peace talks? imo, Putin will never meet Zelenskyy face to face for security reasons. The idea that Putin is the only powerful Russian supporting this war is naive at best. That said “taking out Putin” must be unspoken #1 priority for Ukraine and their allies. Or perhaps they know the recognize the dangers of creating martyrs? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russia–Ukraine_peace_negotiations

Wow now a stunt and what aboutism about raping abd torture. Whats next? Concentration camps and then make a gymnastic over Hitler and thats why it is ok to rape woman and after burn them in front of their children, because thats exactly what this sick Russian army is doing and this sick head Putin. How sick is sombody in the brain to come with apollogizes and what aboutism what these animals are doing. This shows the culture of the Putin supporters! 

Russia  has to be kicked out of the UN and China if they agree on crimes. Who wanna sit with low life dirt criminals at the same table?!

[Convert54]

Wernicke's aphasia apparent !

[Marble-eye]

Watch out there's Prof Stanley Unwin about.

[Stardust]

This video brings it to the point the russians and their supporters are completly brainwashed

Video interview with the title " they are completly brainwashed"

https://edition.cnn.com/

 

[butterfly]

6 hours ago, Stardust said:

Wow this really shows your mental health status to claim now it is staged. Sure and they are not dead and the women raped themself. Sure and it is not a war and the bombs footafes and destroyed houses are staged, too. No words for people like you. Did you see tge interview from the neighbours who knew this people, how sick are you??!!.

it's standard MO, you stage horrific scenes and get everyone onboard. It looks staged, sorry to disappoint your "outrage".

Imagine if it was Russian civilians instead, and some here will be cheering up with the usual "fully deserved" comments.

Let's have an international investigator to make sure we know the truth. I think both sides need it.

Edited April 4, 2022 by butterfly

[Stardust]

Just now, butterfly said:

it's standard MO, you stage horrific scenes and get everyone onboard. It looks staged, sorry to disappoint your "outrage". Imagine if it was Russian civilians instead, and some here will be cheering up with "fully deserve" comments.

Let's have an international investigator to make sure to know the truth. I think both sides need it.

Absolutly brainwashed and sick in the brain as it is described in this video about you guys who talked about it is staged and titled "completly brainwashed"

Just sick

https://edition.cnn.com/

 

[Stardust]

5 minutes ago, butterfly said:

it's standard MO, you stage horrific scenes and get everyone onboard. It looks staged, sorry to disappoint your "outrage".

Imagine if it was Russian civilians instead, and some here will be cheering up with the usual "fully deserved" comments.

Let's have an international investigator to make sure we know the truth. I think both sides need it.

Here whats about the stunts it is staged