News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The thing that can protect Ukraine from further Russian military aggression is Zelenskyy’s stated goal of Russia agreeing to allow foreign troops into Ukraine for “military exercises”. If he gets that then an attack on Ukraine risks being viewed as an attack on foreign (NATO) troops with consequences. I simply don’t believe the “poorly trained, equipped, supplied, demoralized, barely old enough to shave etc” portrayal of Russian troops. If they are as bad as claimed then they are doing a pretty good job against the >insert superlatives here> soldiers of Ukraine.  

Yes I already noticed before you have no knowledge about the military and noticed you never served. This things has nothing to do with believe and anybody who served and/or have combat experienced notice the condition of a Army and how they trained. Most import thing is to watch the drone or video footage how they organize their convoys , because this says a lot. It is a fact they are poorly trained and not experienced if you keep no distances between amuntion trucks or park in a free dield truck by truck, etc etc. You only show me your level of no knowledge but you are talking a lot. People who served not have to believe they just watch it! Thats the difference between believing what people like you are doing and knowing! You even believe your own stories, everything is just about believing but not about knowing!

[Fanta]

21 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Yes I already noticed before you have no knowledge about the military and noticed you never served. This things has nothing to do with believe and anybody who served and/or have combat experienced notice the condition of a Army and how they trained. Most import thing is to watch the drone or video footage how they organize their convoys , because this says a lot. It is a fact they are poorly trained and not experienced if you keep no distances between amuntion trucks or park in a free dield truck by truck, etc etc. You only show me your level of no knowledge but you are talking a lot. People who served not have to believe they just watch it! Thats the difference between believing what people like you are doing and knowing! You even believe your own stories, everything is just about believing but not about knowing!

And you believe all the Western media as presented and refuse to believe that anything, except Russian claims, is propaganda. Every side is lying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda 

For example - check out the Wikipedia page about casualties from this war and try not to skim over the notes about Ukraine’s and Russia’s claims. Here, I’ll save you the effort.

”According to a researcher at the Department of Peace and Conflict Research at Uppsala University in Sweden, Ukraine’s government was engaged in a misinformation campaign aimed to boost morale and Western media was generally happy to accept its claims, while Russia was “probably” downplaying its own casualties. Ukraine also tended to be quieter about its own military fatalities.^[83] According to BBC News, Ukrainian claims of Russian fatalities were possibly including the injured as well.^[84] Analysts warned about accepting the Ukrainian claims as fact, as Western countries were emphasizing the Russian military's toll, while Russia wanted to downplay its losses.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

[Poolie]

4 hours ago, EdwardV said:

You know I don't really feel much sympathy for the Russians as they have brought this upon themselves. However you almost do for these guys: 

As Moscow's forces bog down in Ukraine, many young Russians of draft age are increasingly jittery about the prospect of being sent into combat. Making those fears particularly acute is an annual spring conscription that began Friday and aims to round up 134,500 men for a one-year tour of military duty. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu pledged at a meeting of the military brass this week that the new recruits won't be sent to front lines or “hot spots.” But the statement was met with skepticism by many in Russia who remember the separatist wars in the southern republic of Chechnya in the 1990s and early 2000s, when thousands of poorly trained young men were killed. “I don't trust them when they say they won't send conscripts into combat. They lie all the time,” ... In recent years, the Kremlin has emphasized increasing the share of volunteer contract soldiers as it sought to modernize the army and improve its readiness. The force of 1 million now has over 400,000 contract soldiers, including 147,000 in the infantry. If the war drags on, those numbers could be insufficient to sustain the operations.

War in Ukraine fuels fears among draft-age Russian youths (msn.com)

Besides the shock at seeing how few of the volunteer contract soldiers are actually in the infantry (wow!), means draftees are no doubt going to be thrown against battle hardened Ukrainians with the same bad results. Keeping in mind, Moscow extended the service time for last years draftees so they aren't going home anytime soon (unless ...). Sucks but of course is fully understandable. 

Interesting that the Ukrainians are considered to be battle hardened. Where did that happen?

[Stardust]

Just now, Fanta said:

And you believe all the Western media as presented and refuse to believe that anything, except Russian claims, is propaganda. Every side is lying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda 

For example - check out the Wikipedia page about casualties from this war and try not to skim over the notes about Ukraine’s and Russia’s claims. Here, I’ll save you the effort.

”According to a researcher at the Department of Peace and Conflict Research at Uppsala University in Sweden, Ukraine’s government was engaged in a misinformation campaign aimed to boost morale and Western media was generally happy to accept its claims, while Russia was “probably” downplaying its own casualties. Ukraine also tended to be quieter about its own military fatalities.^[83] According to BBC News, Ukrainian claims of Russian fatalities were possibly including the injured as well.^[84] Analysts warned about accepting the Ukrainian claims as fact, as Western countries were emphasizing the Russian military's toll, while Russia wanted to downplay its losses.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

Everything from you is without substance. You read something there or there then you make your own believes , own stories, own conclusion. There is no fundament of knowledge all is about your own believes. You not even understood my former post. I not have to read anything to know or understand I watched the footages. I served and I understand it without reading an article what is the reality of what I see! Do you understand the difference. And do you understand that people who served and have combat experiences know it just by watching it! Do you understand the differences between knowledge, experiences and just believing and reading. You talking about you are a realist but for that you need a fundament of knowledge, experiences but I only read from you about what you believe not anything what is founded on knwledge or knowing! Just by your favorite sources you read but without any backround of knowledge.

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Interesting that the Ukrainians are considered to be battle hardened. Where did that happen?

Omg it happen everyday

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, Transam said:

So what, the fact is, your big boy Russia has got a really bloody nose, that is FACT, try living with it instead of finding excuses.... 

Believing in your own hype! That’s the spirit! Way to keep an open mind /s It’s fortunate that you are not in the negotiating room as you’d likely try to choke out the Ukrainian team for not demanding the unconditional surrender of all Russian Armed Forces and Putin’s head on a platter, howling “Slava Ukraini!” while they drag you into a comfortable, soundproofed, padded room so the adults can get on with stopping this conflict and saving lives. 

[Marble-eye]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Believing in your own hype! That’s the spirit! Way to keep an open mind /s It’s fortunate that you are not in the negotiating room as you’d likely try to choke out the Ukrainian team for not demanding the unconditional surrender of all Russian Armed Forces and Putin’s head on a platter, howling “Slava Ukraini!” while they drag you into a comfortable, soundproofed, padded room so the adults can get on with stopping this conflict and saving lives. 

In all seriousness Fanta I think you are the last person to lecture any of us about open minds.

Adults would have not started this conflict in the first place, only a mad crazed despot is to blame for this and is this truth a bit too near your comfort zone?

[EdwardV]

26 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Interesting that the Ukrainians are considered to be battle hardened. Where did that happen?

Donbas. Ukraine troops have been fighting in Donbas since 2014. Most all of their regular army and reserves have rotated through Donbas while serving. 
 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-ukraines-armed-forces-shape-up-against-russias-2022-02-01/

Russia really screwed up when starting that proxy war. Not only did they create national unity where there was none before. They also created a hatred of Russia, and a battle experienced Ukrainian army. 

[Poolie]

6 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Donbas. Ukraine troops have been fighting in Donbas since 2014. Most all of their regular army and reserves have rotated through Donbas while serving. 
 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-ukraines-armed-forces-shape-up-against-russias-2022-02-01/

Russia really screwed up when starting that proxy war. Not only did they create national unity where there was none before. They also created a hatred of Russia, and a battle experienced Ukrainian army. 

Fighting against who in Donbas?

[Poolie]

6 minutes ago, Transam said:

You mean, so you can let an aggressor get away with murder over absolutely nothing.

Your Hitler Mk2..

Morning Mr Godwin, sir.

[Fanta]

11 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

In all seriousness Fanta I think you are the last person to lecture any of us about open minds.

Adults would have not started this conflict in the first place, only a mad crazed despot is to blame for this and is this truth a bit too near your comfort zone?

I have said 2 main points and repeatedly emphasized them. 1) Beware the propaganda presenting an isolated, weak Russia and 2) peace talks are the best outcome for Ukraine. I have never supported Putin or condoned his invasion of Ukraine. At least. 3 times I have made that crystal clear. I haven’t joined the chorus of “Putin is wrong” because that is a given. Nor the “Ukraine is kicking ass and taking names, Russia will lose” because I believe  the Western media cannot be trusted to give balanced reports on the war. Please bear in mind that I have only ever supplied Western friendly media links from reputable sources to support any of my claims in defense of my points. Anyway, that’s enough off topic defense of my opinions. We were discussing about peace talks? 

[Noble_Design]

57 minutes ago, Transam said:

So what, the fact is, your big boy Russia has got a really bloody nose, that is FACT, try living with it instead of finding excuses.... 

So emotional

[Marble-eye]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

At least. 3 times I have made that crystal clear. I haven’t joined the chorus of “Putin is wrong”

You can say it as many times as you like Fanta, your posts do not back that claim up. 

So would you put your head on the block and give us an estimate of how wrong Putin is, by a percentage would be fine.

[Fester]

9 hours ago, butterfly said:

how soon we forget how brutal the Iraq invasion by the US was, with US soldiers deliberating shooting at Al Jazeera and CNN journalists in their hotel rooms, bombing children hospitals by "accident", bombing residential areas as a "shock and awe" strategy to intimidate Saddam. Right, like he cared for his own population

This war is no different, and equally ugly, yet somehow "some" here choose to forget what war really means, and yes it's really ugly. The winners will always mention a necessary evil, and this one will not be different.

Zelensky needs to be the adult in the room, and stop the bloodshed

I have hope he might come to his senses eventually, and surrender to Putin to stop the massacre

Like another great leader, Vercingetorix, did with the brutal Romans 

Zelenskly wants to be a hero? let him be a real one, not a Zoom proxy one

How soon we forget that we are discussing an invasion today! An invasion that is different because it was unprovoked by initial Ukrainian military action in another country. Adult behaviour was required of Putin, who started this. I don't think that Zelensky is trying to be a hero but he knows, like millions of his fighting countrymen, if they don't fight now then there probably won't be another chance.

Vercingetorix surrendered himself to the Romans only to receive a complementary strangling 5 years later. His soldiers were killed or enslaved and Gaul was occupied by the Romans for 500 years after that. Maybe Zelensky read the whole story and didn't skip the scary bits? 

[EdwardV]

53 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Fighting against who in Donbas?

The same people who were there before 2014 and the same ones who are there now. Don’t they called them a separatist army? Doesn’t the story go: the locals who took up arms to fight the evil Ukrainians in order to keep their Russian language … blah blah blah. 

 

[Poolie]

20 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The same people who were there before 2014 and the same ones who are there now. Don’t they called them a separatist army? Doesn’t the story go: the locals who took up arms to fight the evil Ukrainians in order to keep their Russian language … blah blah blah. 

No idea. Like most other people I couldn't stick a pin in Ukraine on a map up to five weeks ago.  Difference is, I admit it.

[KRLMRX]

11 hours ago, butterfly said:

how soon we forget how brutal the Iraq invasion by the US was, with US soldiers deliberating shooting at Al Jazeera and CNN journalists in their hotel rooms, bombing children hospitals by "accident", bombing residential areas as a "shock and awe" strategy to intimidate Saddam. Right, like he cared for his own population

This war is no different, and equally ugly, yet somehow "some" here choose to forget what war really means, and yes it's really ugly. The winners will always mention a necessary evil, and this one will not be different.

Zelensky needs to be the adult in the room, and stop the bloodshed

I have hope he might come to his senses eventually, and surrender to Putin to stop the massacre

Like another great leader, Vercingetorix, did with the brutal Romans 

Zelenskly wants to be a hero? let him be a real one, not a Zoom proxy one

I think Zelensky would be happy to do this in order to quickly forget this nightmare.

But in Ukraine, as well as in Russia, there is a large group of very militant "patriots" who are now the authorities in Ukraine and will not allow him to simply surrender.

I think that after the defeat of the eastern group by the Ukrainian army and the liberation / occupation of the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, a peace agreement will be signed that will stop this conflict for a while.

[KRLMRX]

11 hours ago, EdwardV said:

I don't understand why this is hard to understand. It's because the Russian's don't want to drop bombs on their own troops. Both Kherson and Melitopol were taken in the first day of the war, they have been occupied by the Russian army every since. 

Are you asking why they didn't grind the city into dust in a single day? 

yes, I ask this, because you stated that the goal of the Russians is to destroy cities and kill civilians.  Why do they do it in one city, but not in the next one?  What is the reason?

in Kherson, you can temporarily withdraw troops and drop a bomb there. What is the problem?

[KRLMRX]

8 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

See what you did there Karl, you are a master of deflection.

"most people who can read" when the argument is lost why do so many people resort to insults?

I am ready to apologize to each here who cannot read.

So ..Do you have evidence that Russia invads more than the United States the number of countries?

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

yes, I ask this, because you stated that the goal of the Russians is to destroy cities and kill civilians.  Why do they do it in one city, but not in the next one?  What is the reason?

in Kherson, you can temporarily withdraw troops and drop a bomb there. What is the problem?

Did you ever watched the Russian tactic in Syria or Grosny. It is always the same bombing hospitals, kindergarten, schools, cluster bombs on civilians. No change here. Tactic of these Russian animals and monsters is to terrorize the civilians as they did in other countries. These footages we could see in Syria, Grosny and we can see it in Ukraine now.

[vlad]

14 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

As of 18 May 2020, there have been 3,502 coalition deaths in Afghanistan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

I should be happy about this, like you? but no, I'm sad.

Deflecting again.

[butterfly]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Did you ever watched the Russian tactic in Syria or Grosny. It is always the same bombing hospitals, kindergarten, schools, cluster bombs on civilians.

they actually carpet bomb the whole place, not the case in Ukraine. Let's hope it doesn't become that way.

[KRLMRX]

7 hours ago, EdwardV said:

You know I don't really feel much sympathy for the Russians as they have brought this upon themselves. However you almost do for these guys: 

As Moscow's forces bog down in Ukraine, many young Russians of draft age are increasingly jittery about the prospect of being sent into combat. Making those fears particularly acute is an annual spring conscription that began Friday and aims to round up 134,500 men for a one-year tour of military duty. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu pledged at a meeting of the military brass this week that the new recruits won't be sent to front lines or “hot spots.” But the statement was met with skepticism by many in Russia who remember the separatist wars in the southern republic of Chechnya in the 1990s and early 2000s, when thousands of poorly trained young men were killed. “I don't trust them when they say they won't send conscripts into combat. They lie all the time,” ... In recent years, the Kremlin has emphasized increasing the share of volunteer contract soldiers as it sought to modernize the army and improve its readiness. The force of 1 million now has over 400,000 contract soldiers, including 147,000 in the infantry. If the war drags on, those numbers could be insufficient to sustain the operations.

War in Ukraine fuels fears among draft-age Russian youths (msn.com)

Besides the shock at seeing how few of the volunteer contract soldiers are actually in the infantry (wow!), means draftees are no doubt going to be thrown against battle hardened Ukrainians with the same bad results. Keeping in mind, Moscow extended the service time for last years draftees so they aren't going home anytime soon (unless ...). Sucks but of course is fully understandable. 

yes, few people want to die for the irrepressible greed of money bags.

in Ukraine, a similar situation - Zelensky banned the departure of men of military age, but they are trying to do this in different ways.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/ukraine-men-leave/

 

[butterfly]

12 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

I am ready to apologize to each here who cannot read.

So ..Do you have evidence that Russia invads more than the United States the number of countries?

I don't think it makes any sense to engage your valid arguments with certain posters who are completing blind to their own bias, and choose to be intellectually dishonest rather than facing disturbing facts about wars.

[butterfly]

11 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Yeah because it certainly wouldn't be Putin. That is if you could get Putin out of his bunker long enough to meet Zelenskyy. 

see, now you are starting to realize the absurdity of the situation