News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

This way Putin gets what he wants, the news slips off the front page and the world can forget what happened, as it always does. Keep n mind that the war is only one month

Occupation was never a goal? Without occupying all of Ukraine you can’t effect de-Nazifacation and regime change. You know the whole Ukraine doesn’t have a right to exist, it’s part of Russia thing. 
 

This news isn’t sipping off the front page even if the war ended tomorrow. Once it end the stories and pictures of what Russia has done all come out for years. The sanctions will last for as long as Putin stays in power. This even if Russia was serious about peace and there is no reason to believe so. These are the same people who negotiated for months constantly telling the world they had no intention of attacking. The same people who have listed a set of demands which Ukraine couldn’t possibly agree to, at least not while they are still fighting. 

[Stardust]

41 minutes ago, Stardust said:

They also kicked out the Russians from Irpin

They also forced them out of former occupied villages and bases, too

They had to run for their lives from angry villagers and seized their tanks.

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Problem is Putin already had all of those things prior to attacking.

Did he? The 2 contested regions were already legally under Russian control? Crimea was effectively taken off the table? The promise to not join NATO had already been made? Same with the commitment to not host foreign military (that’s the big one) or get nukes? If he gets what he wants there will be a small expansion of Russia and a buffer between Russian and the rest of Europe ( NATO). Or do you deny that also? 
And wrecked army and destroyed economy? Military numbers don’t lie and Winnie the Pooh in China will have Russia’s back if they need a few bucks. That Russian oil and gas is still flowing somewhere. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Fanta
Nukes

[EdwardV]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Did he? The 2 contested regions were already legally under Russian control? Crimea was effectively taken off the table? The promise to not join NATO had already been made? Same with the commitment to not host foreign military (that’s the big one) or get nukes? If he gets what he wants there will be a small expansion of Russia and a buffer between Russian and the rest of Europe ( NATO). Or do you deny that also? 
And wrecked army and destroyed economy? Military numbers don’t lie and Winnie the Pooh in China will have Russia’s back if they need a few bucks. That Russian oil and gas is still flowing somewhere. 

Yes he did. The two contested areas were under de facto Russian control and declared independent. It was just a matter of time till Russia annexed them just like Crimea. Taken off the table? Is that suppose to mean a situation might exist is in the future where Russia might give back Crimea? Absurd. Saying it’s off the table is meaningless. A promise Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO wasn’t needed as it couldn’t happen as long as Russia sat in Crimea. Probably the same reason Russia isn’t asking for Ukraine to renounce ownership of Crimea in the negotiations. Ironic wouldn’t you say? As long as Ukraine isn’t in NATO, there is no foreign troops. Ukraine had already given up Nukes and would never get them if they ever wanted to join NATO in the future. A non NATO Ukraine was already a buffer. See how attacking Ukraine actually makes all of those things worse than before?

I think Ukraine has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt Russian military numbers had been lies all along. China will only take so much Russian oil and gas. They preach energy security through diversification. They have no intention of becoming the next Germany where that is concerned. Regardless over the next year or two, the sales to China of oil and gas will probably drop, not go up. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Occupation was never a goal? Without occupying all of Ukraine you can’t effect de-Nazifacation and regime change. You know the whole Ukraine doesn’t have a right to exist, it’s part of Russia thing. 
 

This news isn’t sipping off the front page even if the war ended tomorrow. Once it end the stories and pictures of what Russia has done all come out for years. The sanctions will last for as long as Putin stays in power. This even if Russia was serious about peace and there is no reason to believe so. These are the same people who negotiated for months constantly telling the world they had no intention of attacking. The same people who have listed a set of demands which Ukraine couldn’t possibly agree to, at least not while they are still fighting. 

Putin only needs Kyiv for Regime Chang but ain’t happening now. Denazi & Negotiations were always nonsense.
A political clown sideshow. Talking Over. Keep Bleeding Russia Dry until Full Withdraeal. Actions Only not Words. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, EdwardV said:

I’m one of those who don’t believe Ukraine was the final objective. That it was nothing but a rung on a ladder starting in Georgia and ending in Poland. That said let’s pretend you are right and Ukraine was the final objective. Problem is Putin already had all of those things prior to attacking. He already occupied Crimea and de facto did the same with the Donbas region. Ukraine was locked out of NATO and far less militarized than it will be in any peace deal. What does Putin get for ending up in the same spot at the cost of a wrecked army and destroyed economy? 

Not Enough Certainly except he will have Wrecked Ukraine so no EU !

 

[Fanta]

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The two contested areas were under de facto Russian control and declared independent

Declared independent by Russia, not the rest of the world. 

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Absurd. Saying it’s off the table is meaningless.

As absurd and meaningless as an agreement to discuss it over the next 15 years. These people must be slow talkers. 

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

A non NATO Ukraine was already a buffer.

Not without the promise to not have foreign bases on Ukrainian soil. If that is agreed in writing Ukraine cannot be a staging area for an attack on Russia. Ukraine may still have wiggle room as they say they still want to have military training exercises with foreign military in Ukraine. 

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I think Ukraine has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt Russian military numbers had been lies all along.

I’ll wait until after the dust settles. Russia and Ukraine will agree on their actual military losses and we’ll see. 

26 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Regardless over the next year or two, the sales to China of oil and gas will probably drop, not go up.

China is a Russia’s top import and export partner so I doubt it will fall. And India has increased their recent purchases of oil. Once this war is over, for a brief period, the orders will come pouring into Russia as people seek to profit from the weakened ruble. If Putin were to have a sudden fatal heart attack much of the future global economic damage could be mitigated. If only…: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_Russia

Edited March 30, 2022 by Fanta
Added link

[oldschooler]

Yes. Complex. Buffer States bordering Russia ( like Finland, Georgia) would need to be properly Neutral with EU discouraged but no NATO & no Foreign Military & Reduced Military (not Disarmed / not Demilitarized).

That’s Russian thinking. Neutral Sweden, Finland, Austria have NATO Option with fierce Russian Threat Resistance. 

Ukraine Same except Highly Strategic to Russia so NO NATO. Controls Main Western Invasion Route into Russia, 8 million ethnic Russians, very large border with Russia, massive Wheat supplier. Direct Comparison of Russians in EU vs. in Russia would also inevitably lead to a Free Russia. 

Outdated Russian Threat Thinking though. The idea that NATO, clearly a purely defensive body, would invade a nuclear armed Russia, is just Absurd.  

[Smithydog]

People keep making assertions as to sizes of defence forces of Russia an Ukraine. 

 

The 2022 edition of 'The Military Balance' offers an assessment of global military capabilities. It is produced by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), as an assessment of all military capabilities and defence economics of 171 countries worldwide.

https://www.forces.net/news/numbers-how-does-ukraines-military-stack-against-russias

The actual document seems only available by a purchasing option. However, have noted the figures in this article are quoted by others using the same referred source.

 Perhaps these numbers may present a better picture of relative sizes pre-invasion. 

 

[vlad]

Why do support Putin Fanta you sound like 1 of his propaganda ministers telling us all is going well? We all know Russian forces have failed to seize Kyiv and they have been pushed back including Irpin. We can see this but you can't Fanta. If they had the numbers you said 400k plus thousands in resevrve why did Putin bring Chechyn fighters in. You don't have to be a field general to realise they cannot take Kyviv due to poor logistics poor leadership on the front and conscript's that don't have the will to fight. Certainly not in urban Gorilla warfare. Your beginning to sound like KRLMRX dodging and deflecting answers. < edited > Iv'e also noticed your comrade Karl's internet connection must be down because he failed to respond to a few basic questions i asked him yesterday.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Faz
edited.

[butterfly]

13 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't see them coming to an agreement anytime soon if ever. Ukraine says sovereignty is off the table, a key demand of Russia. At the same time Russia is demanding no foreign based troops. Of course Ukraine knows Russia will attack again (it's a given), and the only way they stand a chance of that not happening is with the basing of foreign troops. The whole thing hinges on sovereignty and security. Two things Ukraine demands, and two things Russia won't grant. 

I don't see an agreement either, but we don't really know what's really going on with the terms of the deal. If Zelensky surrender too much, he will pay the price politically and be gone. 

He still didn't deliver on his promises to the Ukraine people of stopping corruption, he basically did a 180 on that once elected.

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it. Zelenskyy wants the EU member countries to guarantee Ukraine’s future security/independence but I think there is no chance of that

We will have to assume that Ukraine corruption will be addressed before they join. We really don't need another corrupted Eastern Europe country to join the EU.

< off topic comments removed >

Edited March 30, 2022 by Faz
edited

[butterfly]

5 hours ago, Stardust said:

They had to run for their lives from angry villagers and seized their tanks.

so much for the brutal Russian army and Putin being a butcher.

<Off topic comment removed by moderator>

from the start, you can tell they are trying to be careful with the invasion, and not carpet bomb the whole place Grosny style

I would rather see them flee and let them take the old tanks, than seeing the poor civilians wiped out by some crazy soldiers

[butterfly]

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

Not at all. If Ukraine agrees to become neutral Putin can claim mission accomplished.

absolutely, from the beginning, Putin wasn't interested in occupying Ukraine, it was impossible to hold.

From the Crimea incident in 2014, he knew that the resistance will be fierce with 14,000 killed over 5 years.

it was never going to be easy, even though in the early days, it seemed that way. The Ukraine army was taken by surprise unprepared.

[Fanta]

37 minutes ago, vlad said:

Why do support Putin Fanta you sound like 1 of his propaganda ministers telling us all is going well?

I have said it before but, just for you, I will say it again. I do not support Putin or this war. I also do not believe the Western media’s glowing reports of the Ukrainian army’s performance and that the Russian army is so bad because they didn’t overrun Ukraine before dinner on the first day of the invasion.  And I deflect? That is ludicrous. Prove it!
Answer me this - if the Ukrainian army, with NATO logistic and intelligence support, are doing such a great job pushing back the apparently poorly supplied, poorly trained, poorly led, demoralized and clearly beaten Russian army of conscripts then why is Zelenskyy even asking for peace talks and not driving the Russians out of Ukraine? And don’t get me started on the military casualty figures - if you believe Russian losses outnumber Ukrainian losses at a minimum ratio of 4:1 then either the Ukrainian army are running away and hiding in basements or it’s more propaganda.

[Faraday]

One post edited for being Off Topic.

One post removed for being Off Topic.

One post removed as it quoted an Off Topic Post.

Stay on topic....

Moderator

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I have said it before but, just for you, I will say it again. I do not support Putin or this war. I also do not believe the Western media’s glowing reports of the Ukrainian army’s performance and that the Russian army is so bad because they didn’t overrun Ukraine before dinner on the first day of the invasion.  And I deflect? That is ludicrous. Prove it!
Answer me this - if the Ukrainian army, with NATO logistic and intelligence support, are doing such a great job pushing back the apparently poorly supplied, poorly trained, poorly led, demoralized and clearly beaten Russian army of conscripts then why is Zelenskyy even asking for peace talks and not driving the Russians out of Ukraine? And don’t get me started on the military casualty figures - if you believe Russian losses outnumber Ukrainian losses at a minimum ratio of 4:1 then either the Ukrainian army are running away and hiding in basements or it’s more propaganda.

Because IF Czar Putins army WAS well supplied, trained, motivated, led and had good moral then they would already be in control of Kyiv.

Why do you refuse to see this simple, self evident fact?

[Fanta]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Because IF Czar Putins army WAS well supplied, trained, motivated, led and had good moral then they would already be in control of Kyiv.

Why do refuse to see this simple, self evident fact?

Really? So the Ukraine army is not up to the task of defending their own capital city against a determined aggressor that they knew was massing at the border months ago?   They clearly are but that does not mean the Russians are as inept as portrayed by Western media. And that is my point. The propaganda pipe is packed, smoke it all you want but beware the headache later on. 

[Marble-eye]

Just now, Fanta said:

Really? So the Ukraine army is not up to the task of defending their own capital city against a determined aggressor that they knew was massing at the border months ago?   They clearly are but that does not mean the Russians are as inept as portrayed by Western media. And that is my point. The propaganda pipe is packed, smoke it all you want but beware the headache later on. 

You keep flying Putins red flag Fanta, everyone has seen enough of how amateurish the Russian troops are, cannot even keep their troops supplied with fuel, ammo, food. Park their scrap on the road without cover, the Ukranian Warriors must have thought that all their birthdays had come at once.

The top generals have been taken out, the lowly Russian soldiers are not even trained to think for themselves. Russia is a total laughing stock, you should feel embarrassed suggesting otherwise.

When all the dead Russian troops finally return to Russia it will be very difficult for Putin and his henchmen to keep fooling his people with his endless propaganda.

Russia is totally responsible for all the deaths whether Russian or Ukrainian!

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Russia is totally responsible for all the deaths whether Russian or Ukrainian!

I never said otherwise. The rest remains to be seen. 

[Fester]

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I have said it before but, just for you, I will say it again. I do not support Putin or this war. I also do not believe the Western media’s glowing reports of the Ukrainian army’s performance and that the Russian army is so bad because they didn’t overrun Ukraine before dinner on the first day of the invasion.  And I deflect? That is ludicrous. Prove it!
Answer me this - if the Ukrainian army, with NATO logistic and intelligence support, are doing such a great job pushing back the apparently poorly supplied, poorly trained, poorly led, demoralized and clearly beaten Russian army of conscripts then why is Zelenskyy even asking for peace talks and not driving the Russians out of Ukraine? And don’t get me started on the military casualty figures - if you believe Russian losses outnumber Ukrainian losses at a minimum ratio of 4:1 then either the Ukrainian army are running away and hiding in basements or it’s more propaganda.

Why is Zelenskyy even asking for peace talks? 

Perhaps he prefers peace over war, even if he is winning.

[Faz]

Members, it's absolutely pointless reporting posts as off topic, then replying to the same posts you've reported. Your wasting moderators time trying to edit the off topic parts of a post as well as the quoted replies. Further such posts will just be removed, including those with any disparaging comments.

Moderator.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Fester said:

Why is Zelenskyy even asking for peace talks? 

Perhaps he prefers peace over war, even if he is winning.

I suspect he wants it over with because of the mounting civilian casualties (including many children) but perhaps part of him is saying to himself lets keep going and rip Czar Putin a new one.

Maybe even drive him back out of the Crimea. 

[Marble-eye]

It seems that the Ukranians are taking the fight to the Russians now, an arms depot in Russia, just 12 miles from the Ukraine border has reportedly been destroyed by an Ukranian missile.

 

 

"Is Kyiv taking the fight to Putin as his invasion stalls? Suspected arms depot in western Russia is destroyed 'by Ukrainian missile' sparking a blast seen from across the border"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10665295/Suspected-arms-depot-western-Russia-destroyed-Ukrainian-missile.html

 

 

[Faz]

Topic locked.