News Forum - Russians in Phuket granted 1 month extension to stay

[butterfly]

12 minutes ago, Soidog said:

My point is, that we can not allow history to paralyse the development of a nation.

unfortunately it does, we are driven by history by default, no matter what we do. We always face the consequences of history, we can't escape it. It's naive to think we can, and that's what the Ukrainians and NATO advocates did, and looks where it led them. They are the paying the price of their arrogance to ignore history and their geolocation.

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

If the Ukrainian people wish to join the EU and NATO, then if you are a defender of democracy, then you have to defend that democratic choice 

easy to say when it's not your blood on the front line. It might happen eventually, but we will need to wait another 150 years for that 20th century history to fade naturally.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

9 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Phuket immigration has not made any official announcements about extensions for Russians, or Ukrainians, at this stage. 

News Forum - Russians in Phuket granted 1 month extension to stay

Click Bait ….. Should read Russian Embassy praying that Thailand will grant Russian Tourists 1 month extension to stay.

 

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, Fluke said:

Its the Russian leaders who are responsible , Putin and his army , even the soldiers don't have a choice or a say in the matter , they follow orders from above

Yes, “I was just following orders” is a standard claim

[butterfly]

25 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes, “I was just following orders” is a standard claim

works very well with the Americans too,

actually works very well with every army in every conflict

[BIGGLES]

11 hours ago, Fluke said:

Will punishing Russian Citizens in Thailand have any effect on the war in Ukraine ?

The USA's attack on Iraq was terrible  so should all USA citizens abroad have all their access to money removed ?

  Should all American citizens in Thailand have their ATM cards invalidated ?

No where near comparable.  The Americans are not attacking nuclear power plants or threatening to use nuclear weapons,  unlike the clown in Moscow. 

[Soidog]

12 minutes ago, butterfly said:

works very well with the Americans too,

actually works very well with every army in every conflict

Not sure what America has to do with it. 
 

As for following orders. My point was related to the fact that some people are somehow trying not to blame Russians for this conflict. My opinion is that Russians collectively have a responsibility for what is going on. As I’ve said before, Putin and his inner circle maybe the fully accountable ones, but the Russian army and many Russian citizens need to take a long hard look at themselves. 

[oldschooler]

14 hours ago, Pinetree said:

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone, but all Russians everywhere should be sent packing.  They have put up with Putin and his criminals all these years. To slightly change a well known quote: you get the leaders you are prepared to tolerate. Send them all home. 

Agreed. Deport the lot & stop them entering. One Month Extension Useless anyway when this war will continue for many months. Then do same to CCP Chinese for Genocide in Xinjiang ….. oh,  but wait we love all those tyrannies including Burma next door, providing cheap labour here, don’t we ?

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Fluke said:

Punishing civilians/citizens for the actions of their Governments is an unethical thing to do and also rather concerning . 

    Mass punishment , punishing everyone for the actions of a few  is probably against some U.N laws/rules and a breach of basic human rights 

Russians elected , re- elected and tolerated Putin, his Oligarchs and their FSB Goon Enforcers now for 22 years. Eat It ! Only those Russians with proper HARD CASH ( Savings or Income) will survive here. 

[butterfly]

25 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Not sure what America has to do with it. 
 

As for following orders. My point was related to the fact that some people are somehow trying not to blame Russians for this conflict. My opinion is that Russians collectively have a responsibility for what is going on. As I’ve said before, Putin and his inner circle maybe the fully accountable ones, but the Russian army and many Russian citizens need to take a long hard look at themselves. 

that logic is called collective punishment, and it is the favorite method for authoritarian regimes

including ordinary authoritarians (about 2/3 of the population) that would follow orders and become "mini" authoritarians if given the chance.

We have quite a few examples in this thread of authoritarian reactions to this invasion, while the true resolution relies in a diplomatic solution, not knee-jerk reactions by European leaders like we have been witnessing over the last few days

Edited March 6, 2022 by butterfly

[butterfly]

Most EU27 leaders are not cut for this crisis, and Putin could eat them for breakfast

this is how world wars are started, weak leaders trying to save faces

[Artemis080]

8 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

News Forum - Russians in Phuket granted 1 month extension to stay

Click Bait ….. Should read Russian Embassy praying that Thailand will grant Russian Tourists 1 month extension to stay.

Indeed. Immigration has been doling out visa extensions for covid for a couple of years now. Exploited by many foreigners who have been long staying in Thailand, instead of the usual visa run.

Russians are one of the very few countries that really cannot easily return home, whereas in most other instances it's just now abused. All the Russian embassy is doing is supplying a letter of confirmation and it's up to the traveller to submit that to immigration as the reason for the extension request.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

30 minutes ago, Artemis080 said:

All the Russian embassy is doing is supplying a letter of confirmation and it's up to the traveller to submit that to immigration as the reason for the extension request.

Not required …. as they arrived on a tourist visas they could get a 60 days extension. But they would need to get their #%$# together first though. …. But would immigration ask to see proof of finances to survive that long. As would require also some sort of rental agreement.

[HiuMak]

All Ukrainians are going back home to fight the war. Russians should all go back home to fight Putin

[Disenfranchised]

12 hours ago, Cathat said:

It's not really possible to fly the russians in thailand home at present.

aeroflot have stopped flying international routes except belarus.russian aircraft are banned from most countries airspace and most western aircraft are forbidden from flying in russian airspace by their governments,insurers or both.

giving russian guest's in thailand a visa extension is the most practical solution at this point in time.

most will probably run out of money pretty quickly and sourcing more funds will be  difficult for most of them.no idea what they are going to do about that.

There is a country called China which is adjacent to Laos and Russia. Aeroflot has no problems with overflights beteen Bangkok and Vladivostok.

[Disenfranchised]

Butterfly seems very cojent, must have a direct line to the NKVD. Best to just ignore him/her/it.

[Poolie]

2 hours ago, Disenfranchised said:

Butterfly seems very cojent, must have a direct line to the NKVD. Best to just ignore him/her/it.

NKVD ceased operation in 1946.  Just saying like......

[WallyC]

 Wry negative response. Russian Embassy should be responsible for getting their people back. Many ways for Russians to go home.  No logic in additional Month stay and no finances.  Russia needs their people back so they can protest or as they have done “Support murder”. Go home and take care of problem NOW!!!

[Soidog]

7 hours ago, butterfly said:

that logic is called collective punishment, and it is the favorite method for authoritarian regimes

including ordinary authoritarians (about 2/3 of the population) that would follow orders and become "mini" authoritarians if given the chance.

We have quite a few examples in this thread of authoritarian reactions to this invasion, while the true resolution relies in a diplomatic solution, not knee-jerk reactions by European leaders like we have been witnessing over the last few days

I don’t disagree that a diplomatic solution is the preferred way forward. However I’m confused that on the one hand you are saying European leaders are weak and not up to the task and yet on the other you are urging a diplomatic solution. What would you have the European leaders do in order not to look weak while seeking a diplomatic solution?
 

Also bear in mind that Putin is a man with ultimate power. He doesn’t have to go to his parliament to debate and agree new sanctions. He doesn’t have to enact in to law any measures for which the current laws in the various European countries won’t allow. He doesn’t need to get the agreement of 27 or 28 other leaders to agree a way forward. 
 

So again I’d ask that you make clear, what  in your opinion, would you have had European or indeed NATO country leaders actually do? 

I believe the only solution is for the financial sanction to affect businesses and the day to day life of Russian people.  For the past 20 years Russians have moved out of the hard life they had lived in the Cold War era. They have a much better life and able to travel where they wish. The sanctions are going to put them back to the Cold War days. When enough of them decide they don’t want that, then change at the top will take place. 
 

The other key to this is China. China relies on a stable world trading in Billions/Trillions of dollars. China doesn’t want a destabilised world anymore than we do. They have taken a backseat and if and when they decide to step in, then the dynamics will change. 

[Fundok]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

I don’t disagree that a diplomatic solution is the preferred way forward. However I’m confused that on the one hand you are saying European leaders are weak and not up to the task and yet on the other you are urging a diplomatic solution. What would you have the European leaders do in order not to look weak while seeking a diplomatic solution?
 

Also bear in mind that Putin is a man with ultimate power. He doesn’t have to go to his parliament to debate and agree new sanctions. He doesn’t have to enact in to law any measures for which the current laws in the various European countries won’t allow. He doesn’t need to get the agreement of 27 or 28 other leaders to agree a way forward. 
 

So again I’d ask that you make clear, what  in your opinion, would you have had European or indeed NATO country leaders actually do? 

I believe the only solution is for the financial sanction to affect businesses and the day to day life of Russian people.  For the past 20 years Russians have moved out of the hard life they had lived in the Cold War era. They have a much better life and able to travel where they wish. The sanctions are going to put them back to the Cold War days. When enough of them decide they don’t want that, then change at the top will take place. 
 

The other key to this is China. China relies on a stable world trading in Billions/Trillions of dollars. China doesn’t want a destabilised world anymore than we do. They have taken a backseat and if and when they decide to step in, then the dynamics will change. 

I agree: China is the only other power that could make Putin stop the war. So far, it seems, they comfortably sit in the back and silently watch how things unfold. This is a tricky situation, and I am not sure that China - at this stage - wants to change the dynamics by actively intervene. Russia is forced to move closer to China to cushion the effects of the western sanctions. The Chinese are playing this very cleverly. I am sure they also do their math now to assess how "expensive" an invasion of Taiwan can be for them with regards to sanctions.

[butterfly]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

I believe the only solution is for the financial sanction to affect businesses and the day to day life of Russian people.

the problem is the sanctions will actually have a bigger impact on us Europeans than Russians, in particular Germany

Why are we following blindly the US and the NATO foolish policies is also the taboo question we should ask ourselves

a diplomatic solution would be to engage Putin and discuss a plan of neutrality for Ukraine, and suspend the silly sanctions. Putin was very clear and tried that 2 weeks ago, but the US and EU27 leaders were too blind and not listening to anything he was saying. That's how wars start.

[Grant]

2 minutes ago, butterfly said:

the problem is the sanctions will actually have a bigger impact on us Europeans than Russians, in particular Germany

Why are we following blindly the US and the NATO foolish policies is also the taboo question we should ask ourselves

a diplomatic solution would be to engage Putin and discuss a plan of neutrality for Ukraine, and suspend the silly sanctions. Putin was very clear and tried that 2 weeks ago, but the US and EU27 leaders were too blind and not listening to anything he was saying. That's how wars start.

Butterfly you may have Russian connections?

These g sanctions are suffocating Putin!

Great job !

Keep the sanctions and the pressure on Putin will soon be put on him from within his own government and people!

[butterfly]

15 minutes ago, Grant said:

Butterfly you may have Russian connections?

These g sanctions are suffocating Putin!

Great job !

Keep the sanctions and the pressure on Putin will soon be put on him from within his own government and people!

these sanctions are going to kill Europe recovery after COVID, not the Russians

EU27 leaders are shooting themselves in the foot, and the US is quite happy to "disengage" the EU27 economic recovery

[Disenfranchised]

5 hours ago, Poolie said:

NKVD ceased operation in 1946.  Just saying like......

It didn't cease operation it .....

March 1946 all People's Commissariats were renamed to Ministries, and the NKVD became the Ministry of Internal Affairs or to follow through to today the FSB.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Disenfranchised

[Poolie]

49 minutes ago, Disenfranchised said:

It didn't cease operation it .....

March 1946 all People's Commissariats were renamed to Ministries, and the NKVD became the Ministry of Internal Affairs or to follow through to today the FSB.

So the NKVD ceased to exist in..............?

Either way, I doubt the chap was waiting for a return message from them.

[Cathat]

10 hours ago, Disenfranchised said:

There is a country called China which is adjacent to Laos and Russia. Aeroflot has no problems with overflights beteen Bangkok and Vladivostok.

What bit of aeroflot have halted all international routes except to Belarus do you not understand?