News Forum - Russians in Phuket granted 1 month extension to stay

[JamesR]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:04 AM, Sparktrader said:

I only see someone speaking like a child and spewing nonsense. And it is not @Fluke. 

He is right, f***ing around with the innocent average Russian holiday maker is in no way going to solve the situation in Ukraine or remove Putin from power. 

Following your logic, maybe we should send all Germans home too and restrict their credit cards so that they can pay some more for the actions of Adolf Hitler =))

Nonsense.

And send us Brits home for having previously had a British empire, or the Italians home (Roman Empire).

In fact all of us would have to be sent home if we look at history. 

[HolyCowCm]

I am sure the Rusky folk here are happy all around but I hope they do not support whack-job Putin. But on another hand I hope Comrad Chanocha or Amigo, or Mate, or Uncle or Brother, depending on what hat he wears is fulfilled with inner solace and warmth, and hope he did not fret over the Thai UN Representatives Diplomat to cast siding vote with the UN condemning Putin’s little man nuclear trigger finger complex. 

[focalS]

Reposting my comment from another thread here. 

 

A Russian citizen who grew up in the UK here. My great-grandfather was executed under Stalin's regime. 

I flew in from Russia for a long vacation (turning into remote work) right before the war began. A few days later we learned the leader I do not support (and for whom have never voted) has invaded Ukraine. 

Putin is a very clever psychopath. Here is why he is choosing now to wage the war against Ukraine:
1. His support at home is very low. Pretty much no one age 30 and below trusts his government. We want none of his shit. Waging a war is a great way to "raise public spirits" - that's clean out the U.S. playbook (remember Afghan invasion and Bush's ratings?). War activates an archetypal response in most individuals which is older than history. Patriotism abounds. And so on. 

2. The sanctions against Russia and Russians enable Putin to put up a new iron curtain, thicker and heavier than ever before and to say "it's not me, it's the West. Blame the West for the iron curtain! I was just defending freedom/fighting nazis/whatever bullshit my speechwriters come up with." 

3. Once the patriotism wears off and the Russian people slowly start realising they've been royally f***ed, they will find themselves in a society more authoritarian than ever before. The only way to keep his power is to tighten the bolts and he will now have free reign behind the new iron curtain and out of sight of European overseers. Medvedev (ex president, current PM) announced a few days ago that since Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, it's a great time to reintroduce the death penalty in Russia. This was a direct threat to the anti-war protesters. Up to 15 years jail time is threatened to anyone who calls the "operation" in Ukraine a war. Need more proof this is coming? The Memorial (a non-profit in Russia working to keep remembrance of the millions of victims of Soviet bloody regime) was found to be a terrorist organization and banned just in December 2021. A government which is actively engaged in political repression and is planning on screwing the bolts ever tighter does not need people calling it out on its actions or reminding the populace of the horrors their ancestors suffered at the hands of a Russian government. 

I'm going to delve a bit into mass psychology here, I hope I don't lose you. I am a bit of a Jungian and I subscribe to the notion of a collective unconscious. It exists on multiple levels, some parts are common to all humans, some later parts are common to local populations. All people/nations/populations have a dark side to our unconscious. It is a side we prefer not to know about ourselves, our darkest desires, our evil side - what religions call the devil. It is a real thing both for individuals and for populations. Let's call it Shadow. 

Let's take two nations as example. Germany and Russia. Both have bloody histories that will chill your blood. Yet, while Germany is embracing/integrating their Shadow by teaching children about horrors of the holocaust and third Reich, Russia is pretending that it has no dark spots in its history. It is banning organisations which can remind citizens of its dark past, the rhetoric from the government and the Church always paints Russia as the savior, the force for good. When a Shadow is ignored, it will break through and it will dominate the behavior of the individual/nation/population in time. 

And that is precisely what happened with Russia under Putin. 

When you think about Putin waging war against Ukraine, you need to realize that he is also waging war against his own people. Once the bloodshed in Ukraine stops, the bloodshed in Russia will begin. I hope and pray it does not look like it did in the last century, yet I fear that, unless the maniac is stopped, it will. 

The only way he will be stopped is if the oligarchs/the elite come to realize that Putin is more of a liability/risk to them than an asset. 

When you say "cancel all Russians" you are playing to the tune of an archetype - hate of the "other", known as xenophobia. It's not a bad thing but it's not a good thing either, it just is. The truth is, all humans have much more in common than otherwise. The Russians you want to punish are just people. Most of the ones leaving Russia now are doing so because they realize where the wind is blowing in their country - back to the USSR but worse. Likely, they do not support Putin.

Do you hold yourself accountable for every action of your government?  

You cannot judge Russians for not getting rid of Putin, the same way you might judge Americans for putting Trump in power. Russia is not a democracy, never has been. People really have no choice there. Moreover, the lack of democracy begins in the minds of the people - they are conditioned to believe that no change through civil action is possible. And the kicker is - this is very much true in Russia. No grassroots change has ever been possible in Russia. And don't tell me about the 1917 revolution - a) it had support at the highest levels b) the country was flooded with over a million soldiers who deserted during WWI and were criminals under the Tsarist regime. 

A bit more to the point of making a pariah out of an entire population of people - how would you rate the U.S. treatment of the Japanese during WWII (putting them in interment camps and such), would you say it's a good thing? If you think it's a good thing, my arguments will do nothing to change your view. If you say it's a bad thing, then I don't think I need say more. 

As for me, I am staying in Asia. I planned to be here for three months, will likely stay longer. Due to the nature of my work, I cannot be behind an informational Iron Curtain. Moreover, I do not want to be in Russia when the purges begin.  

The Russians you meet here, chances are they do not support Putler, they just want to be somewhere safe for when the repressions come.

Likely, they are the creative or tech professionals  who work remotely and likely work with the West. Keeping these people out of Russia is a much bigger hit to the regime than sending them packing back home. 

 

[JamesR]

17 hours ago, focalS said:

Reposting my comment from another thread here. 

A Russian citizen who grew up in the UK here. My great-grandfather was executed under Stalin's regime. 

I flew in from Russia for a long vacation (turning into remote work) right before the war began. A few days later we learned the leader I do not support (and for whom have never voted) has invaded Ukraine. 

Putin is a very clever psychopath. Here is why he is choosing now to wage the war against Ukraine:
1. His support at home is very low. Pretty much no one age 30 and below trusts his government. We want none of his shit. Waging a war is a great way to "raise public spirits" - that's clean out the U.S. playbook (remember Afghan invasion and Bush's ratings?). War activates an archetypal response in most individuals which is older than history. Patriotism abounds. And so on. 

2. The sanctions against Russia and Russians enable Putin to put up a new iron curtain, thicker and heavier than ever before and to say "it's not me, it's the West. Blame the West for the iron curtain! I was just defending freedom/fighting nazis/whatever bullshit my speechwriters come up with." 

3. Once the patriotism wears off and the Russian people slowly start realising they've been royally f***ed, they will find themselves in a society more authoritarian than ever before. The only way to keep his power is to tighten the bolts and he will now have free reign behind the new iron curtain and out of sight of European overseers. Medvedev (ex president, current PM) announced a few days ago that since Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, it's a great time to reintroduce the death penalty in Russia. This was a direct threat to the anti-war protesters. Up to 15 years jail time is threatened to anyone who calls the "operation" in Ukraine a war. Need more proof this is coming? The Memorial (a non-profit in Russia working to keep remembrance of the millions of victims of Soviet bloody regime) was found to be a terrorist organization and banned just in December 2021. A government which is actively engaged in political repression and is planning on screwing the bolts ever tighter does not need people calling it out on its actions or reminding the populace of the horrors their ancestors suffered at the hands of a Russian government. 

I'm going to delve a bit into mass psychology here, I hope I don't lose you. I am a bit of a Jungian and I subscribe to the notion of a collective unconscious. It exists on multiple levels, some parts are common to all humans, some later parts are common to local populations. All people/nations/populations have a dark side to our unconscious. It is a side we prefer not to know about ourselves, our darkest desires, our evil side - what religions call the devil. It is a real thing both for individuals and for populations. Let's call it Shadow. 

Let's take two nations as example. Germany and Russia. Both have bloody histories that will chill your blood. Yet, while Germany is embracing/integrating their Shadow by teaching children about horrors of the holocaust and third Reich, Russia is pretending that it has no dark spots in its history. It is banning organisations which can remind citizens of its dark past, the rhetoric from the government and the Church always paints Russia as the savior, the force for good. When a Shadow is ignored, it will break through and it will dominate the behavior of the individual/nation/population in time. 

And that is precisely what happened with Russia under Putin. 

When you think about Putin waging war against Ukraine, you need to realize that he is also waging war against his own people. Once the bloodshed in Ukraine stops, the bloodshed in Russia will begin. I hope and pray it does not look like it did in the last century, yet I fear that, unless the maniac is stopped, it will. 

The only way he will be stopped is if the oligarchs/the elite come to realize that Putin is more of a liability/risk to them than an asset. 

When you say "cancel all Russians" you are playing to the tune of an archetype - hate of the "other", known as xenophobia. It's not a bad thing but it's not a good thing either, it just is. The truth is, all humans have much more in common than otherwise. The Russians you want to punish are just people. Most of the ones leaving Russia now are doing so because they realize where the wind is blowing in their country - back to the USSR but worse. Likely, they do not support Putin.

Do you hold yourself accountable for every action of your government?  

You cannot judge Russians for not getting rid of Putin, the same way you might judge Americans for putting Trump in power. Russia is not a democracy, never has been. People really have no choice there. Moreover, the lack of democracy begins in the minds of the people - they are conditioned to believe that no change through civil action is possible. And the kicker is - this is very much true in Russia. No grassroots change has ever been possible in Russia. And don't tell me about the 1917 revolution - a) it had support at the highest levels b) the country was flooded with over a million soldiers who deserted during WWI and were criminals under the Tsarist regime. 

A bit more to the point of making a pariah out of an entire population of people - how would you rate the U.S. treatment of the Japanese during WWII (putting them in interment camps and such), would you say it's a good thing? If you think it's a good thing, my arguments will do nothing to change your view. If you say it's a bad thing, then I don't think I need say more. 

As for me, I am staying in Asia. I planned to be here for three months, will likely stay longer. Due to the nature of my work, I cannot be behind an informational Iron Curtain. Moreover, I do not want to be in Russia when the purges begin.  

The Russians you meet here, chances are they do not support Putler, they just want to be somewhere safe for when the repressions come.

Likely, they are the creative or tech professionals  who work remotely and likely work with the West. Keeping these people out of Russia is a much bigger hit to the regime than sending them packing back home. 

Well said.

I remember talking to my dad who was in the 2nd WW, he said he had to guard German prisoners at one point in camps in the UK, he said they were people just like us caught up in the war, we are no different to each other he said.

Most people understand that I think.

Regards you stating people under thirty do not trust the government, I remember about four years ago I was talking to a group of Russians in Thailand, they were around 22 years old and they said to me very quietly they wanted to replace the government system and be more democratic, they said at some point in the future it would happen.

Quite a few years ago I sat next to a Russian on a plane from Thailand, he said he hated the government and as a reporter was trying his best to publish the darker side of the regime but said he had to be careful, people disappear.

I have sat and drank with quite a few Russians and they are just like you and I and the rest of us really.

[TSS]

this extension will be extended again and the unpaid bills and misery index will continue until flights get in here to take them back to mother russia. It's economy is already in shambles. Large & small corporations leaving it daily, will be in ruins in a month.