News Forum - Tourists will have to pay 300 baht ‘land entry fee,’ minister confirms

[longwood50]

11 hours ago, Marc26 said:

99% of tourists to Thailand aren't on forums like this

Perhaps but it would make far more sense to the Thai government to broadcast on media that tourists do follow that they are providing "specials" for tourists to visit Thailand.  You would think that with the lack of tourists they would be providing ideas to "encourage" travelers to come.  If I was one of the business owners whose volume was severely impacted by lack of tourists I would be outraged that the government appears to be doing things that even give the appearance of further dampening tourist volume. 



 

[LoongFred]

18 hours ago, longwood50 said:

No you are the one that is confused.  We have not had any significant amount of tourists to Thailand in some months, yet the number of cases in Thailand have increased.  I suggest a double vaxed tourist has more to fear from getting Covid while staying in Thailand than the Thai's have from contracting covid from  a person who is double vaccinated entering Thailand.  Is it possible.  Sure, but then why not test for TB, Syphillis, Dengue Fever, Aids etc.  After all if the issue is protecting than why is it only Covid that we should be concerned about. 

Again, to beat a dead horse, it is not the 300 baht.  It is this delusional thinking that the time to raise any fee is when tourism is dead in the water.  The fact that its use will cover other things after Covid is gone is irrelevant.  Why not make it 1,000 baht, or 10,000 baht using that piece of illogical thinking. 

Busiensses run promotions, discounts, specials when their business is looking to atttract more customers.  They don't raise prices on the idiom that well we will be using it to improve things in the years to come.   Oh we don't have customers, oh we will be imposing a cover charge to come into the restaurant.  What sort of nonsense thinking is that? 

I am staunchley of the opinion that this misguided notion of raising a 300 baht fee will cost the government more in lost tourism tax revenue than they ever gain from the 300 baht fee.  You either adopt polcies to make Thailand a "more attractive" place to visit or you impose fees and restrictions to inhibit it.  Make up your mind.  Do you want tourists or not? 

You raise some interesting points about testing for other diseases. Maybe the Dept of Health should consider them. As far as the 300 baht entry fee, maybe we should refer to it as the "300 baht Principles fee" .

[Benroon]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:23 AM, longwood50 said:

No you refuse to answer the question. 

1. How does increasing a minimum wage "increase productivity"

2. If the business owner can improve "productivity" and profits before the minimum wage. Do you really believe that they would not do it?

What you are referring to are ways business "reacts" to a rising minimum wage.  

What you are suggesting is that all businesses have this hidden untapped source of wealth that can be used when costs increase.  Have you looked at the price of gas recently.  If what you said was true, the petroleum refiners and petroleum stations merely look for "WAYS TO IMPROVE PRODUCTIVITY' to keep their prices the same. 

The fact is that most businesses constantly look at their costs.  Their rent, insurance, utilities, labor, taxes, costs or products and ALREADY SEARCH FOR WAYS TO LOWER COST.  If they did not they soon would be driven out of business by competitors who were more efficient. 

The Congressional Budget Office which is a Federal Agency in the USA providing information to the Congress on the impact of legislation stated raising it in the USA would lead to 1.4 million FEWER JOBS.  The same is true around the world.   The more expensive you make it the less of it business wants to use.   

If minimum wage worked as you suggest why stop at 492 baht.  Why not 10,000 baht after all you seem to believe business has this trove of untapped efficiencies that would prevent price increases.  Finally, your "solution" does nothing to improve the economy of Thailand.  It only means that Thailand will be a more expensive place for business to acquire unskilled labor and the labor will remain unskilled.  How much better for Thailand to "invest" in labor making the Thai's eligible to perform higher skilled jobs that already pay more than the minimum wage.  That is "solving" the problem.  Yours first imposes the problem on business and second kicks the can down the road as inflation eventually makes 492 baht so low as it equals todays 332 baht in terms of purchasing power and you are left with the same group of unskilled Thai's.

Raising minimum wage to $15 would cost 1.4 million jobs, CBO says

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/raising-minimum-wage-to-15-would-cost-1point4-million-jobs-cbo-says.html

Everything you have asked had been answered ad finitum - why you cannot absorb it is a mystery I won't dwell on, Your responses tell me you have never owned a business in your life and if you have I guess we'll have to assume you took 4 shots at it before you realised it wasn't for you.

You don't understand productivity, you don't understand synergies, you don't understand staff morale full stop etc etc.

I'm out of this the answers are out there. Business dinosaurs all over the world (poor business bosses) have always bleated about minimum wages will cost them a wing on their mansions. It's never happened.

You tell me if Thailand adheres to a higher living wage the business will go elsewhere ? hmmm western companies are absolutely scared to death of being exposed as a company that exploits foreign workers but then as a businessman you'll know that right ? If NIKE were exposed as paying 10 baht an hour to a Cambodian mother of 6 to save a few quid etc etc the fallout would be disastrous. 

So name me a country who's minimum wage structure has caused an economic crash ? Infact don't you will just keep repeating yourself, emphasising your lack of business acumen.  

Know when to stop digging chap - Richard Branson you ain't !

[Naanlaew]

13 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Perhaps but it would make far more sense to the Thai government to broadcast on media that tourists do follow that they are providing "specials" for tourists to visit Thailand.  You would think that with the lack of tourists they would be providing ideas to "encourage" travelers to come.  If I was one of the business owners whose volume was severely impacted by lack of tourists I would be outraged that the government appears to be doing things that even give the appearance of further dampening tourist volume. 



 

Something like a 10% off coupon at King Power ?   That could help offset the new tax.

Regardless of whether it is a logical or sound economic decision , once the new tax is incorporated into the plane fare, I doubt most people will notice or question it.  I do agree that the poor timing and piling on is not helping  revive this sector. 

[longwood50]

16 hours ago, Benroon said:

Everything you have asked had been answered ad finitum - why you cannot absorb it is a mystery I won't dwell on,

No Benroon, Ihave owned four businesses.  You seem to believe that business can just "improve productivity" at will to compensate for increased cost of labor.  No.  Businesses constantly look at the cost of rent, taxes, insurance, fuel, transportation etc to try and minimize the expense. 

Somehow you have this misguided notion that raising the minimum wage will suddenly spur businesses on to capture savings elsewhere that through their negligence they have just been missing.  Nonsense. 

Here is Walmart arguable the most efficiently run organization in the world.  They use self service cashiers,  just in time inventory, an aggressive shoftlifting control program, limit full time employment, and direct sourcing to name a few.  It spends 7% of its total top line sales in wages.  If that goes up by 46% as suggested here in Thailand that would raise it 3.22% to 10.22% of top line sales.  That would completely eliminate any profit for Walmart.

  So tell me with your infinite wisdom of running business how Walmart could "improve productivity" to offset that 3.22% increase? 

You think that is any different for the rice farmer, or rubber harvesting operation here in Thailand.  They have even fewer opportunities not having the scale or resources of Walmart to squeeze out the last penny of efficiency.  

If the price of oil goes up, the price of gas goes up.  If the price of lumber goes up, the cost to build a house goes up, if the price of lithium goes up the cost of a lithium battery goes up, if the price of steel goes up, the cost of a car goes up, if the government raises import fees on alcohol the price of alcohol goes up.  To suggest that somehow labor is any different shows a basic lack of understanding of economics.  To believe that somehow business can just magically enrich workers with no impact on the price of its products, reduction in volume, reduction in profits, and reduction in total hours by employees is akin to believing that the store you purchase goods at pays the 7% VAT and does not include it in your purchase.  They "magically" make it disapear by "productivity" 


 

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

 

Here is Walmart arguable the most efficiently run organization in the world.  They use self service cashiers,  just in time inventory, an aggressive shoftlifting control program, limit full time employment, and direct sourcing to name a few.  It spends 7% of its total top line sales in wages.  If that goes up by 46% as suggested here in Thailand that would raise it 3.22% to 10.22% of top line sales.  That would completely eliminate any profit for Walmart.

 



 

Then how come there's an unloading problem of containers on the west coast? Vessel after vessel?

[longwood50]

10 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Then how come there's an unloading problem of containers on the west coast? Vessel after vessel?

That has nothing to do with Walmart.  They don't own the ships or control the dock workers or the truckers who bring the products unloaded from the shipping containers to their warehouses.  They only control the inventory of products on hand, and use their own trucks to distribute to Walmart stores. 

You can thank the current administation for the Covid rules that bottlenecked logistics for that problem. 

[Benroon]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:51 AM, longwood50 said:

No Benroon, Ihave owned four businesses.  You seem to believe that business can just "improve productivity" at will to compensate for increased cost of labor.  No.  Businesses constantly look at the cost of rent, taxes, insurance, fuel, transportation etc to try and minimize the expense. 

Somehow you have this misguided notion that raising the minimum wage will suddenly spur businesses on to capture savings elsewhere that through their negligence they have just been missing.  Nonsense. 

Here is Walmart arguable the most efficiently run organization in the world.  They use self service cashiers,  just in time inventory, an aggressive shoftlifting control program, limit full time employment, and direct sourcing to name a few.  It spends 7% of its total top line sales in wages.  If that goes up by 46% as suggested here in Thailand that would raise it 3.22% to 10.22% of top line sales.  That would completely eliminate any profit for Walmart.

  So tell me with your infinite wisdom of running business how Walmart could "improve productivity" to offset that 3.22% increase? 

You think that is any different for the rice farmer, or rubber harvesting operation here in Thailand.  They have even fewer opportunities not having the scale or resources of Walmart to squeeze out the last penny of efficiency.  

If the price of oil goes up, the price of gas goes up.  If the price of lumber goes up, the cost to build a house goes up, if the price of lithium goes up the cost of a lithium battery goes up, if the price of steel goes up, the cost of a car goes up, if the government raises import fees on alcohol the price of alcohol goes up.  To suggest that somehow labor is any different shows a basic lack of understanding of economics.  To believe that somehow business can just magically enrich workers with no impact on the price of its products, reduction in volume, reduction in profits, and reduction in total hours by employees is akin to believing that the store you purchase goods at pays the 7% VAT and does not include it in your purchase.  They "magically" make it disapear by "productivity" 


 

Absolutely nowhere have I suggested that increasing the minimum wage will 'spur' business! What I have said is to an enlightened intelligent business person it should not mean closure for the myriad of reasons you've already been given. However a boss with a me me me/them and us attitude however may struggle.

You remember paternity pay laws ? oh my god the corporate world as we know it is going to disappear under the weight of soiled nappies and gripe water - guess what, never happened. However let's leave this now, you can't name a single economy that has taken a hit from their people being paid a decent living wage. So it's kind of job done. 

If you're now out of business that's probably not a bad thing, for you and your stress levels, but certainly for your staff.

[King Cotton]

19 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Absolutely nowhere have I suggested that increasing the minimum wage will 'spur' business! What I have said is to an enlightened intelligent business person it should not mean closure for the myriad of reasons you've already been given. However a boss with a me me me/them and us attitude however may struggle.

You remember paternity pay laws ? oh my god the corporate world as we know it is going to disappear under the weight of soiled nappies and gripe water - guess what, never happened. However let's leave this now, you can't name a single economy that has taken a hit from their people being paid a decent living wage. So it's kind of job done. 

If you're now out of business that's probably not a bad thing, for you and your stress levels, but certainly for your staff.

An excellent debate that you and @longwood50are 'enjoying', @Benroon, but unless you can shift it across to Expat Chat/Other Discussion, I can see it soon getting the O-T evil eye . . . wink, wink, say no more! 

[Benroon]

7 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

An excellent debate that you and @longwood50are 'enjoying', @Benroon, but unless you can shift it across to Expat Chat/Other Discussion, I can see it soon getting the O-T evil eye . . . wink, wink, say no more! 

I'm done KC - I've led the horse to water 

[Poolie]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

I'm done KC - I've led the horse to water 

Many times I've done the same but when it ends up getting personal, particularly with the world being what it is now, I just give up. Kudos for your efforts.

[longwood50]

2 hours ago, Benroon said:

Absolutely nowhere have I suggested that increasing the minimum wage will 'spur' business!

You said they will have alternatives for not raising prices by increasing productivity of course you fail to mention what any of those are.  

Now the average business spents approximately 20% of their total cost of operation on labor.  The average trucker spends 25.2% of their expenses on fuel.  

The raise in minimum wage from 332 baht to 492 baht is a 46% rise.  The price of 91 Octane fuel back in Sept. 2021 in Thailand averaged 29.78.  It is now 39.08 per litre so a much smaller 31% rise. 

So tell me with your business acumen just what "efficiencies" will that driver have to prevent him/her from having to raise his delivery prices.  Afterall a price is a price whether it is labor or fuel.