News Forum - “Covid is going nowhere, get vaccinated” – leading Thai virologist

[Bob20]

9 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

First, you said there is no such thing (virus-boosting) but now you say it cannot happen with Covid. Based on what? We have already Delta that is overcoming the vaccine protection in some people. Is it boosting the virus or not? We do not know yet conclusively but it is a possibility.

Now at least this is related to the topic!

Unfortunately for you, Delta was discovered late 2020 before vaccination started, so it's definitely not caused by a vaccine. Perhaps you thought it was in 2021, but that's when it was named Delta after it was discovered much earlier.

[riclag]

As far as society living with covid. I got to live with the notion that I might die of getting heart disease or cancer and yet I’m not threatened by govt restrictions!
Since everyone is capable of passing the poison ,govt needs to make suggestions not demands of adherents or else!

[Bob20]

12 minutes ago, riclag said:

As far as society living with covid. I got to live with the notion that I might die of getting heart disease or cancer and yet I’m not threatened by govt restrictions!
Since everyone is capable of passing the poison ,govt needs to make suggestions not demands of adherents or else!

But you don't pass a heart-attack or cancer on to someone else...

(although some posts do raise blood-pressure )

[ExpatPattaya]

4 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

But you don't pass a heart-attack or cancer on to someone else...

(although some posts do raise blood-pressure )

Very true, yet with HIV-Aids, did the government mandate condoms or abstinence?  (impossible of course)

People who are vaccinated know how to protect themselves .  Unvaxxinated rely on horse de-wormer and other methods.  

Hospitals need to only admit those with respiratory problems, who need a ventilator.  Then there would be no shortages of beds for those who need other treatments or surgery, etc... 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, ExpatPattaya said:

Very true, yet with HIV-Aids, did the government mandate condoms or abstinence?  (impossible of course)

People who are vaccinated know how to protect themselves .  Unvaxxinated rely on horse de-wormer and other methods.  

Hospitals need to only admit those with respiratory problems, who need a ventilator.  Then there would be no shortages of beds for those who need other treatments or surgery, etc... 

In the case of HIV there were huge campaigns. They should start honestly informing the population about Covid as well, because even here on the forum factual knowledge is poor.

And in my personal opinion they need to charge all unvaxxed people for all Covid treatment, as currently they are burdening society with their personal choice.

(then we'll have the smokers and overweight debate again too, but as long as people don't choose responsible behaviour and claim a right to free choice, they should face the consequences of that choice)

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, UncleFatBloke said:

The vaxxes are proven NOT to stop you getting infected or tranferring the virus onto others.

The vaccine efficacy wanes afetr just 2 months, and after 6 months is basically useless, so boosters will be needed by the whole population every 6 months for the rest of time! That is pure insanity for a virus that kills less than 0.003% of the population!

A vaxination strategy is doomed to failure.

You cannot stop Covid. It is endemic!

The vaccines has proved to help the aged and health-vulnerable, so they should get boosters, but NO-ONE else! 

The risk of dying from Covid for anyone under 60 years old is statistically the same as the risk from dying from a sharp object!

Shall we ban knives?!

That's simply not true and not known.

It's not true that vaccines are "basically useless" after 6 months as the reduction in efficacy against serious illness and death is only marginally reduced.

... and it's not known how many jabs will be required as boosters or part of basic inocculation as they simply haven't been around for long enough. It could be as few as three (tetanus is five) or as many as every 6 months.  Nobody knows yet.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Chaimai said:

I disagree Bob.

Thailand is opening up already  -  but discreetly, and with discrimination against many bar and restaurant owners. Life is going on; domestic tourism is increasing and weekend hotspots are as busy as pre-Covid (but without hoards of Chinese zero-Baht tourists).

In my locale we have been able to purchase alcohol at 'restaurants' for months...........still using beakers and coffee mugs! All venues are managing to keep afloat (and in some cases prosper) as a result of this.

The number of Covid infections has not shown any increase. People wear masks in public and exercise varying degrees of social distancing etc. I guess 60% of the population  have been fully vaccinated. The vulnerable will continue to protect themselves.

That is living with Covid, not surrendering to it. Covid itself should be feared no more than influenza if you have adequate inoculation or immunity.

Zero Covid is an impossible target - get economies moving again. 

Agreed absolutely - that's what learning's about, not stagnating.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

First, you said there is no such thing (virus-boosting) but now you say it cannot happen with Covid. Based on what? We have already Delta that is overcoming the vaccine protection in some people. Is it boosting the virus or not? We do not know yet conclusively but it is a possibility.

Give it up mate, unless you wish to spend as much time as Pr Mad Bob arguying coment after comment with sources and quotes and bla bla bla (even then...), meaning your WHOLE life, it is pointless, not worth a simple thought. Enjoy life and (try to) ignore these irrational and fully trained mainstream minds that seem to have chosen to spend their last years of "life" (not sure it is the right word) on this planet in their own created digital madness.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

As with @Chaimai I don't mind a discussion, but I do mind blatant disinformation.

After 6 months for instance Pfizer is still on average 45% effective, which is a lot more than Sinovac after even 2 weeks. 

And there is no need to keep peddling the story about catching or transmitting the virus. It was never claimed vaccines would stop that by the developers. That's what politicians and others were "claiming or hoping". 

But being protected from severe illness or death by a vaccine that arrived much quicker than expected, was more than we had expected so soon.

Yes, open up, after people have been vaccinated with an effective vaccine. And open up cleverly with some restrictions, so the hospitals don't fill up with unvaccinated people like happens elsewhere, then requiring new very strict measures.

... and that, unfortunately, is "blatant disinformation". The recent studies show that after 6 months Pfizer is still 90% effective against serious illness, hospitalization and death, not 45%.

[Stonker]

9 minutes ago, Manu said:

Give it up mate, unless you wish to spend as much time as Pr Mad Bob arguying coment after comment with sources and quotes and bla bla bla (even then...), meaning your WHOLE life, it is pointless, not worth a simple thought. Enjoy life and (try to) ignore these irrational and fully trained mainstream minds that seem to have chosen to spend their last years of "life" (not sure it is the right word) on this planet in their own created digital madness.

Despite our disagreements, a fair comment, @Manu.

@JackIsAGoodBoy actually highlighted the problem with his comparison himself in his own quote, making the whole argument moot if only either of them understood what they were arguing about:

"This is the first time that this virus-boosting phenomenon, known as the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, has been observed experimentally".

That should be the end of any such argument being repeated or raised again.

[riclag]

9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

But you don't pass a heart-attack or cancer on to someone else...

(although some posts do raise blood-pressure )

Since its the new normal and vaccination doesn’t stop the spread ,stop the demands!

They ,cancer and heart disease are the leading causes of death  and since the ultimate goal is to stop deaths ,govt  approach was initially a gallant effort toward stopping covid deaths but it failed !

It fails cause not everyone wants to put a foreign substance in their body ,as a example! 

Despite your snarky remark towards my post  ,  your first childish  insult towards me. Continuing   restrictions and unreasonable demands  on society by the pro vaccers authorities and govt has taken its course!

Time to live with the reality’s of the poison and that is take care of number one and not force others by coercion!

 

[riclag]

41 minutes ago, Manu said:

Give it up mate, unless you wish to spend as much time as Pr Mad Bob arguying coment after comment with sources and quotes and bla bla bla (even then...), meaning your WHOLE life, it is pointless, not worth a simple thought. Enjoy life and (try to) ignore these irrational and fully trained mainstream minds that seem to have chosen to spend their last years of "life" (not sure it is the right word) on this planet in their own created digital madness.

Brilliant 

[AussieBob]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

Since its the new normal and vaccination doesn’t stop the spread ,stop the demands!

They ,cancer and heart disease are the leading causes of death  and since the ultimate goal is to stop deaths ,govt  approach was initially a gallant effort toward stopping covid deaths but it failed !

It fails cause not everyone wants to put a foreign substance in their body ,as a example! 

Despite your snarky remark towards my post  ,  your first childish  insult towards me. Continuing   restrictions and unreasonable demands  on society by the pro vaccers authorities and govt has taken its course!

Time to live with the reality’s of the poison and that is take care of number one and not force others by coercion!

Lets have a vote in each country that claims to be Democratic and then go with what the majority want.

I bet you that the majority in most countries want to block unvaccinated people sharing their air, at least until the pandemic is declared over, and that everyone getting vaccinated is a good thing (but most I feel do not want it mandatory).  Unless you can prove me wrong, then I state that a few thousand vocal dissenters does not a majority make - AND the majority has already spoken by getting themselves vaccinated.

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

Since its the new normal and vaccination doesn’t stop the spread ,stop the demands!

They ,cancer and heart disease are the leading causes of death  and since the ultimate goal is to stop deaths ,govt  approach was initially a gallant effort toward stopping covid deaths but it failed !

It fails cause not everyone wants to put a foreign substance in their body ,as a example! 

Despite your snarky remark towards my post  ,  your first childish  insult towards me. Continuing   restrictions and unreasonable demands  on society by the pro vaccers authorities and govt has taken its course!

Time to live with the reality’s of the poison and that is take care of number one and not force others by coercion!

It's not a snarky remark (not meant to be anyway), but it's a simple truth. Maybe you gave two poor examples?

For the record (if you'd taken notice of earlier posts), I'm not making any demands and am all for choice to say yes or no to a vaccine.

I'm simply saying that, whatever choice you make, you accept full responsibility for it and don't turn to society to pay for your choice. And don't turn on your principles when breathing becomes difficult and the medical profession that is so clearly dispised is all of a sudden allowed to come to your rescue.

[Shark]

14 minutes ago, riclag said:

Since its the new normal and vaccination doesn’t stop the spread ,stop the demands!

but it does contribute to a healthy society. unluckily... one can always argue to not do it. Because scared of vaccines, unproven bla bla, healthy anti bodies. The fact that we're still as deep in the shit as we're is due to the low vaccination rate. This is a fact. Don't reopen until the 99% is reached. 1% is for those who can't be vaccinated due to underlying medical conditions whom would result into dead by vaccination, but these people can do a PCR test every 72 hours to prove they don't have it as their body is a super mutation place.

Mutation happens easier in the un vaccinated. For every 1000 virologist whom say that ofcourse somebody whom doesn't want to vax will find 10 whom "debunk" this theory never has it been debunked that vaccination helpt modern-day society to be where we are and many western countries and eastern countries vaccinated from Baby up-to young adult with various types of injections you don't know the contents off.

[Bob20]

57 minutes ago, Manu said:

Give it up mate, unless you wish to spend as much time as Pr Mad Bob arguying coment after comment with sources and quotes and bla bla bla (even then...), meaning your WHOLE life, it is pointless, not worth a simple thought. Enjoy life and (try to) ignore these irrational and fully trained mainstream minds that seem to have chosen to spend their last years of "life" (not sure it is the right word) on this planet in their own created digital madness.

If that's the best you've got, feel free to put me on ignore

[Mazz11]

Anyone using the argument against a Covid-19 vaccine with 'I won't put a foreign substance in my body', are deluding themselves. 

Modern medicine has been developing treatments for multitudes of diseases and illnesses for hundreds of years. 

If you have never taken treatment that requires a prescription from your doctor, no worries argue away. But if you have you are running with a failed argument.

If you don't want to be vaccinated that's your choice, no problem.

But please don't discourage other people with false information because unfortunately some will believe you and they may pay the ultimate price.

 

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

... and that, unfortunately, is "blatant disinformation". The recent studies show that after 6 months Pfizer is still 90% effective against serious illness, hospitalization and death, not 45%.

I said "effectiveness" and never specified "against hospitalisation etc " as you do, so my quoted figure was absolutely not disinformation and correct.

From October 2021 and the Lancet:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-drops-after-6-months-study-2021-10-04/

If you wish to change the definition of what I quoted and add info that's fine, but just being argumentative with the ever present unpleasant undertone contributes nothing.

[riclag]

3 hours ago, Mazz11 said:

Anyone using the argument against a Covid-19 vaccine with 'I won't put a foreign substance in my body', are deluding themselves. 

Modern medicine has been developing treatments for multitudes of diseases and illnesses for hundreds of years. 

If you have never taken treatment that requires a prescription from your doctor, no worries argue away. But if you have you are running with a failed argument.

If you don't want to be vaccinated that's your choice, no problem.

But please don't discourage other people with false information because unfortunately some will believe you and they may pay the ultimate price.

Thats only just “one”reason, Foreign substances ,that  I randomly chose .There are many other reasons why some don’t  want to participate ! I for one respect the choice to inject or not to inject ,for what ever reason!

Its the coercion in all its forms that I detest 

 

[Bangkok_Gary]

 

Vaccines are one of the oldest technologies in civilization.

In 900 AD (1200 years ago) Chinese physicians noted how uninfected people who were exposed to a smallpox scab were less likely to acquire the disease or, if they did, that it was milder. The most common method of inoculation was to inhale crushed smallpox scabs through the nostrils.

In the 1700s, Lady Mary Montagu was the first to bring variolation to Britain when she inoculated her six-year-old daughter. The variolation procedure involved cutting open an arm to expose a vein and rubbing smallpox puss in the incision. 

In 1796, the English physician Edward Jenner extracted puss from the hand of a milkmaid infected with cowpox. Jenner rubbed this puss into the scratched arm of an eight-year-old boy. Two months later on July 1, 1796, Jenner purposefully injected the boy with smallpox, which he never subsequently contracted. This successful experiment ushered in a new, scientifically based era of inoculation, and earned Jenner the informal title as the “father of immunology”.

In 1881, the Frenchman Louis Pasteur inoculated 24 sheep, one goat, and six cows against anthrax while leaving a control group uninoculated. A few weeks later, he exposed both groups to anthrax – all vaccinated animals survived while none of the control group survived.

The early 20th century produced vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, and tuberculosis.

And so on...

The anti-vax crowd are the New Flat Earth Society.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Bangkok_Gary

[Soidog]

17 hours ago, MikeW said:

Covid is here to stay so learn to live with it and open everything up 

Not just yet @MikeW .  When vaccination levels are up in the 85%-90% region, then open everything up. 

[Rain]

37 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Not just yet @MikeW .  When vaccination levels are up in the 85%-90% region, then open everything up. 

Covid will still be around...

More than likely in a variety of nasty forms.

[Soidog]

14 minutes ago, Rain said:

Covid will still be around...

More than likely in a variety of nasty forms.

Yes the world hasn’t seen the back of Covid and maybe never will now. Again today a new variant of concern has been identified in Africa and the U.K. is pausing flights from 6 countries. 
 

Covid: Africa travel restrictions over variant fear https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59424269

[Faraday]

16 hours ago, palooka said:

Seems there is a new one "Botswana Variant" 3 cases in Botswana and one case already in Hong Kong.

New Botswana variant with 32 ‘horrific’ mutations is the most evolved Covid strain EVER | Express Digest

Reported on a few other sites as well.

I wouldn't expect anything else, would you?

I just wonder how long all these scare tactics will be tolerated.

[palooka]

My apologises to all the "woke" who read this forum.

I unthinkingly posted news of a new variant and attached it to the name of the country where it was first detected.